Ultra Instinct - A Thread for Theory Crafting and Discussion

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

Except UI alone can't explained why Goku's power and speed went up as noted by Piccolo and 17 or why Goku's aura felt very different. There is far more going on than Goku just getting UI.

Could come as a package in the technique, they did say instead of gaining a huge power up in one go that he's evolving through the fight with each blow etc.
They're not being literal with his aura being God ki or not, its his AURA when he fights, he gives off a different vibe mentally not ki wise, in simple terms Goku isnt giving any vibes of attacking, evading, bloodlust and such, he was calm, scary calm like he isnt gonna do anything but does things.

Being in such a zen-like state would certainly be an interesting way to explain the Angels'........... "quirks".

I wonder if learning to master this technique will change Goku as a person going forward.

[HeroR]

Except UI alone can't explained why Goku's power and speed went up as noted by Piccolo and 17 or why Goku's aura felt very different. There is far more going on than Goku just getting UI.

Could come as a package in the technique, they did say instead of gaining a huge power up in one go that he's evolving through the fight with each blow etc.
They're not being literal with his aura being God ki or not, its his AURA when he fights, he gives off a different vibe mentally not ki wise, in simple terms Goku isnt giving any vibes of attacking, evading, bloodlust and such, he was calm, scary calm like he isnt gonna do anything but does things.

I think the “that he's evolving through the fight with each blow etc” is similar to Super Saiyan God Goku in the Battle of Gods Saga. Goku didn’t necessarily get stronger as a Super Saiyan God so much that he mastered more of its power.

It was noted by Roshi that Goku’s ki was different and hot. This was before Goku fought. Everything else was about his movements, not aura.

[SansrivaaL]

I think the “that he's evolving through the fight with each blow etc” is similar to Super Saiyan God Goku in the Battle of Gods Saga. Goku didn’t necessarily get stronger as a Super Saiyan God so much that he mastered more of its power.

It was noted by Roshi that Goku’s ki was different and hot. This was before Goku fought. Everything else was about his movements, not aura.

Could be, I like the concept of him being able to evolve while fighting, one of the reasons why I see it as being a part of Migatte no Goku'i is Beerus and Whis didnt comment about "but I wonder why he got a powerup in strength as well.." but rather they were certain all of what Goku was showcasing was a part of that state.

No, Roshi literally said Goku's ki is scary CALM, not different or unique, CALM, it has nothing to do with it being a different kind of ki, its Goku showing lack of mental emotions, he was so calm that his typical atatatata didnt pop up, about the heat thing... that could just be Goku not able to master it yet so its emitting like crazy, he'll master it sooner or later, first promo art did say he masters it (sort of, depending on the translator and how you take it as it can mean a lot of things)

[HeroR]

I think the “that he's evolving through the fight with each blow etc” is similar to Super Saiyan God Goku in the Battle of Gods Saga. Goku didn’t necessarily get stronger as a Super Saiyan God so much that he mastered more of its power.

It was noted by Roshi that Goku’s ki was different and hot. This was before Goku fought. Everything else was about his movements, not aura.

Could be, I like the concept of him being able to evolve while fighting, one of the reasons why I see it as being a part of Migatte no Goku'i is Beerus and Whis didnt comment about "but I wonder why he got a powerup in strength as well.." but rather they were certain all of what Goku was showcasing was a part of that state.

No, Roshi literally said Goku's ki is scary CALM, not different or unique, CALM, it has nothing to do with it being a different kind of ki, its Goku showing lack of mental emotions, he was so calm that his typical atatatata didnt pop up, about the heat thing... that could just be Goku not able to master it yet so its emitting like crazy, he'll master it sooner or later, first promo art did say he masters it (sort of, depending on the translator and how you take it as it can mean a lot of things)

It could be because Saiyans getting random powerful forms isn’t new, like no one said anything about Super Saiyan Berserk, and it was the fact that he was using an advance god technique that got thier attention.

He said calm and it has heat. The point is that is noted that something was off about Goku’s aura.

[SansrivaaL]

It could be because Saiyans getting random powerful forms isn’t new, like no one said anything about Super Saiyan Berserk, and it was the fact that he was using an advance god technique that got thier attention.

He said calm and it has heat. The point is that is noted that something was off about Goku’s aura.

They would have pointed it out if something other than MG was working, Whis and Beerus both knows this technique quite well to not point it out.

Yeah Goku's aura not his literal use of ki but his mental ki.

[HeroR]

It could be because Saiyans getting random powerful forms isn’t new, like no one said anything about Super Saiyan Berserk, and it was the fact that he was using an advance god technique that got thier attention.

He said calm and it has heat. The point is that is noted that something was off about Goku’s aura.

They would have pointed it out if something other than MG was working, Whis and Beerus both knows this technique quite well to not point it out.

Yeah Goku's aura not his literal use of ki but his mental ki.

But it was pointed out that Goku got more than just UI. Everyone was just more shock that Goku was moving abnormally.

Heat had nothing to do with his mental state.

[TheMikado]

First off, wow, I never thought the mighty and immortal Herms would grace this thread I made.

Second, I just thought of a potential addendum to add to how the Ultra Instinct works.

So, besides the technique of mastering your body's movements to such a degree that it reacts without input from your mind, Whis also taught Goku and Vegeta to keep their Ki within themselves without it leaking, as well as to only raise it when they attack to maximize striking power. What if the Ultra Instinct could do the same?

Maybe, along with being able to react independent of the user, the Ultra Instinct can also regulate their Ki for maximized focused power when the body strikes at an opponent, thus allowing a user to strike at almost anyone regardless of ordinary power level differences. It'd make it much easier to believe that the gods would fear such a technique if it effectively renders their massive power levels redundant in a fight.

This is exactly what I've been trying to emphasize since the beginning! I don't believe the technique is about raising a user's power but about precision, focused attacks with their body in full efficiency and power. It would allow counters and target specific weak spots, damaging an opponent regardless of power level differences. This would be how Goku and Vegeta could surpass the Gods and Jiren, without actually being more powerful than them.

It'd certainly be an easy way to explain why the Angels seem to be much stronger fighters than their Gods of Destruction and yet aren't played up for their destructive potential of Universes.

Well more importantly it would do what needed to be done from the beginning and make power levels completely irrelevant. I think thats what Toriyama actually intended for the form is not a more powerful form but a way to mitigate powerless and end the silly and endless cycle of increasing power levels.

[Zagacious]

It could be because Saiyans getting random powerful forms isn’t new, like no one said anything about Super Saiyan Berserk, and it was the fact that he was using an advance god technique that got thier attention.

He said calm and it has heat. The point is that is noted that something was off about Goku’s aura.

They would have pointed it out if something other than MG was working, Whis and Beerus both knows this technique quite well to not point it out.

Yeah Goku's aura not his literal use of ki but his mental ki.

But it was pointed out that Goku got more than just UI. Everyone was just more shock that Goku was moving abnormally.

Heat had nothing to do with his mental state.

When Whis said Goku had something more than the Spirit Bomb' energy, he was referring to UI. The something else he was referring to was UI, in response to someone saying the Spirit Bomb gave him energy.

[TheMikado]

Except UI alone can't explained why Goku's power and speed went up as noted by Piccolo and 17 or why Goku's aura felt very different. There is far more going on than Goku just getting UI.

Could come as a package in the technique, they did say instead of gaining a huge power up in one go that he's evolving through the fight with each blow etc.
They're not being literal with his aura being God ki or not, its his AURA when he fights, he gives off a different vibe mentally not ki wise, in simple terms Goku isnt giving any vibes of attacking, evading, bloodlust and such, he was calm, scary calm like he isnt gonna do anything but does things.

Being in such a zen-like state would certainly be an interesting way to explain the Angels'........... "quirks".

I wonder if learning to master this technique will change Goku as a person going forward.

When ever we have watched Whis “fight” hasn’t he always dispersed his opponents with one hit and hit seems to be a precision move. He evens explained it in detail. At no point did Whis actually overpower anyone.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7Xlx1nEGc7k

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MGADmMjPRHY

As a matter of fact Whis does exactly what I said the technique should consist of, dodging ability then using the opponents own momentum against them combined with precision based attacks. This is what this “form” is supposed to be..

[SansrivaaL]

But it was pointed out that Goku got more than just UI. Everyone was just more shock that Goku was moving abnormally.

Heat had nothing to do with his mental state.

It was pointed out that he got more than the Genki Dama, not MG.

Heat was a side effect of the technique not yet mastered hence Jiren throwing it off as its proof of his limitations, that heat was not a good thing at all and a sign that the heat must not emit, none of them were talking about Goku using or having a different ki, just that his ki was scary calm and he was emitting heat (which again, was a bad thing)

[HeroR]

When Whis said Goku had something more than the Spirit Bomb' energy, he was referring to UI. The something else he was referring to was UI, in response to someone saying the Spirit Bomb gave him energy.

I doubt Goku's jump in speed and strength was the Spirit Bomb since Whis said that the only thing the Spirit Bomb did was recharged Goku, not make him stronger.

It was pointed out that he got more than the Genki Dama, not MG.

Heat was a side effect of the technique not yet mastered hence Jiren throwing it off as its proof of his limitations, that heat was not a good thing at all and a sign that the heat must not emit, none of them were talking about Goku using or having a different ki, just that his ki was scary calm and he was emitting heat (which again, was a bad thing)

Isn't that what I said? They were questioning where Goku got all his power from and what the heck was he doing.

That is assumption at the moment since we don't know what the heat is other than Jiren's comment and he could have been hyperbolic as far as we know.

[SansrivaaL]

Isn't that what I said? They were questioning where Goku got all his power from and what the heck was he doing.

That is assumption at the moment since we don't know what the heat is other than Jiren's comment and he could have been hyperbolic as far as we know.

You said he got more than MG which wasnt the case, he got more than GD which was MG, not the other way around.

Could be, but Whis also implied that the heat was not a good thing, he even commented about it in an eerie way.

[HeroR]

You said he got more than MG which wasnt the case, he got more than GD which was MG, not the other way around.

Could be, but Whis also implied that the heat was not a good thing, he even commented about it in an eerie way.

No, I mean he got more than UI since Goku's overall power and speed went up as noted by Piccolo and 17. Being able to react without thinking wouldn't suddenly make him stronger than Blue Kaioken x20.

He said he wasn't sure about the heat and left it at that.

[TheShadowEmperor8055]

Love the form. Though, while it isn't completely clear how Goku got this transformation (also not sure if "Ultra Instinct" is the final name or whatever), Goku appears to have gotten this from the CLASH between the "maliciousness" of his Super Saiyan form and the pureness of the imploded, black-hole-like, SSB KKx20-amplified Genki Dama. He broke his limits and transformed into this to survive and overcome that clash. His body was at its limit (hence the tremendous overheat), but he absorbed the Genki Dama as a temporary source of power; he didn't get the new form from merely absorbing the GD, at least according to Whis.

I also like how it breaks away from the "Super Saiyan" (Ultra > Super FTW) trend and is it's own thing altogether. Since Goku is now accessing all that god ki in his normal state now, he doesn't have to worry about the stamina drain of a SS transformation or technique like Kaioken. Not only can he anticipate and react accordingly to attacks, he also has self-improvement during battle just like Hit and Goku Black, so there's no need to powerup his body with Kaioken while also hurting his body in the process. That being said, all of those qualities really make this the perfect form.

LOVE the color of it too, I hope it stays that way. Maybe the mastered from is no aura as the default (aura absorbed in his body like the manga-only "Completed SSB"), then a lot more aura than we saw when Goku powers up? Also, while I know it was only in the manga, the Oracle Fish did say both Goku and Vegeta would be formidable opponents for Beerus one day. Maybe Vegeta gets this form or gets on Hakaishin level through some other method...

[ssj3kakarot]

What is everyone's thoughts on Goku and Ep110.

Did he receive a new form AND a technique?

Or is the technique the power boost/visual/fighting-without-thinking wrapped into one? Like Kaioken: It's a technique, visual change, power boost.

If He has a new form and new technique then the question is, can he use this technique in base, ss, etc? If it is indeed a skill that one can master, it only makes sense for him to be able to use it whenever. Unless they go the Db route and say it drains stamina.

[SansrivaaL]

No, I mean he got more than UI since Goku's overall power and speed went up as noted by Piccolo and 17. Being able to react without thinking wouldn't suddenly make him stronger than Blue Kaioken x20.

He said he wasn't sure about the heat and left it at that.

Yeah because he was evolving as the fight went on.

Whis: Everything's good, however... that heat... I'm not so sure about this.
I dont know how you can interpret this other than he's implying that the heat emitting is bad, Jiren even added that the heat shows his limits. 2 characters who are up in the scale literally says it.

[HeroR]

Yeah because he was evolving as the fight went on.

Whis: Everything's good, however... that heat... I'm not so sure about this.
I dont know how you can interpret this other than he's implying that the heat emitting is bad, Jiren even added that the heat shows his limits. 2 characters who are up in the scale literally says it.

17 and Piccolo noted the increase and speed on Goku before Piccolo made the comment about Goku evolving.

I mean we don't know what the heat is. Is it literal heat or hyperbolic.

[SansrivaaL]

17 and Piccolo noted the increase and speed on Goku before Piccolo made the comment about Goku evolving.

I mean we don't know what the heat is. Is it literal heat or hyperbolic.

Well yeah, like I said, that could be a part of the technique itself, if not then Whis and Beerus would have said MG doesnt boost power and speed, but instead they both came into a realization that the instant jump was because of MG.

But we do know its a bad thing, which is what I'm getting at.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

So, a new idea on how Ultra Instinct could play a role in the future.

We know that Goku's gonna eventually fight with Uub and decide to train him. He's also excited at the prospect of Uub because he'll be a good person born with Pure Buu's potential. A lot of people ask how this can still be the case with the ever-increasing power gap that Goku and other characters create as they go up the chain, far past what Pure Buu presented.

Well, we see that Ultra Instinct changed Goku's demeanour A LOT when he was in that state. He was completely serious and calm, and didn't seem to display his usual excitement and rush for fighting. He takes an entirely utilitarian approach to fighting whilst using the Ultra Instinct, nothing flashy or unnecessary. Maybe learning to master this state will change Goku's outlook on life, his Saiyan mentality, and whether or not Goku truly wants to continue breaking his own limits and ascending further.

It's possible that he'll start settling into bringing out other people's potential after basically maxing out his own, to teach them about what grand martial arts adventures await them should they devote the time and energy to this venture. By End of Z, he may realize that the Ultra Instinct is the ultimate culmination of martial arts, something he wants to share, and THAT'S what motivates him to seek out Uub.

I don't know, just my own thoughts to add to the discussion on this state of being.

[SaiyanGod117]

Anyone notice the difference in the size of pupils from the special and promo art?