Do you think the tournament filled with so many jobbers was a good idea?

[BlueBasilisk]

I'm hoping that there's some kind of twist or message at the end that power isn't everything but I'm not sure what to think at this point. What I worry about most and what would really disappoint me is if the tournament exists just to wank about how great U7 or Goku really are.

[Lord Beerus]

I don't think that this fandom knows how the properly use the term "job" or "jobber".

[Jigurashi]

I don't think that this fandom knows how the properly use the term "job" or "jobber".

The internet doesn't know how to use that word.

[pacz360]

I don't think that this fandom knows how the properly use the term "job" or "jobber".

Every fandom elsewhere just throw the word jobbing

[Duo]

I don't think you cannot easily apply DBZ power levels to Super. Transformations to Super seem to be symbolic and have no numbers. When a character transforms it is to make you realize he's getting serious, not that he is now 50/100/10000000 times stronger. It doesn't seem to work that way anymore.

I see it like this:

Base Goku: Let's have some fun!
SSJ Goku: Wow, looks like he can take a few hits!
SSJ2 Goku: He's good! A lot better than most guys I fight!
SSJ3 Goku: I'm *really* having fun!! Wooo-hoo!
Red God Goku: Okay, time to get serious.
SSB Goku (or any latest form): Okay, now I'm *dead* serious.
Ultra Goku (or any newly acquired form): I have to literally give my heart and soul into this fight and battle like I've never battled before.

That is absolutely the best way of looking at it. Very effective way of expressing that point.

[Zagacious]

The people saying we're disappointed in the characters because we expected too much.. well yeah we expected at least one new character to actually mean something besides Jiren, everyone else is more or less pointless in this tournament, no new characters have received adequate focus to the point after this Tournament barely anyone's going to remember Ribrianne or the others unless they are used in the future. Trio De Dangers got a pretty good showing, even though we already saw them fight before, I was expecting at least 5 of that level of fighters but we didn't even get that.

I had very low expectations that at least maybe 5 new characters would matter in the ToP, but the only new one that means anything is Jiren. Hit and the Z Fighters we've already seen so I'm not including those, I'm talking about new fighters. This would have been the perfect opportunity to introduce more strong characters because we have 8 universe to pick from, but the choice was to make pretty much all of them fodder. They were far too shortsighted with this design of making no one else matter except Jiren you can tell by how the build up of characters mostly meant nothing just time filler until the big fight. This type of design works better without having ~60-70 useless fighters around hogging screen time, so if they're going to do it like that why bother with a tournament of 80 fighters, which like I said wouldn't be a problem if they made at least a FEW of them matter besides Jiren.

[precita]

Well Toppo got some pretty good spotlight too besides Jiren. Dyspo hasn't really done much though besides not get knocked out yet.

Besides that it's obvious Caulifa/Kale are the next most important characters in the tournament. Almost all of Universe 6 is falling one after the other, especially if Cabba gets knocked out next week and the two Nameks not too long after...the two Saiyan girls will be the only U6 members left.

[namekiansaiyan]

Well Toppo got some pretty good spotlight too besides Jiren. Dyspo hasn't really done much though besides not get knocked out yet.

Besides that it's obvious Caulifa/Kale are the next most important characters in the tournament. Almost all of Universe 6 is falling one after the other, especially if Cabba gets knocked out next week and the two Nameks not too long after...the two Saiyan girls will be the only U6 members left.

Caulifla and Kale will be done by 115 as they would have had 5 episodes focused on them. There is surely no way they can get more than that. They are lucky they are even going to get a rematch with Goku.

[GodKaio-Ken]

Fwiw I think the implication is that certain fighters are strong beyond mortal belief....not that everyone else is weak.

[precita]

Well Toppo got some pretty good spotlight too besides Jiren. Dyspo hasn't really done much though besides not get knocked out yet.

Besides that it's obvious Caulifa/Kale are the next most important characters in the tournament. Almost all of Universe 6 is falling one after the other, especially if Cabba gets knocked out next week and the two Nameks not too long after...the two Saiyan girls will be the only U6 members left.

Caulifla and Kale will be done by 115 as they would have had 5 episodes focused on them. There is surely no way they can get more than that. They are lucky they are even going to get a rematch with Goku.

I can see Caulifa/Kale making it to the last 10 fighters, honestly. It can be just like before, they fight a bit and get tired/beaten up, but instead of being knocked out they retreat and hide among the rocks.

I mean let's face it, whose left now besides U7? Other than Jiren/Toppo/Dyspo, there aren't any other major characters left now. The remaining fighters from the other universes will just get an episode or two and be knocked out.

[GodKaio-Ken]

Well Toppo got some pretty good spotlight too besides Jiren. Dyspo hasn't really done much though besides not get knocked out yet.

Besides that it's obvious Caulifa/Kale are the next most important characters in the tournament. Almost all of Universe 6 is falling one after the other, especially if Cabba gets knocked out next week and the two Nameks not too long after...the two Saiyan girls will be the only U6 members left.

Caulifla and Kale will be done by 115 as they would have had 5 episodes focused on them. There is surely no way they can get more than that. They are lucky they are even going to get a rematch with Goku.

I can see Caulifa/Kale making it to the last 10 fighters, honestly. It can be just like before, they fight a bit and get tired/beaten up, but instead of being knocked out they retreat and hide among the rocks.

I mean let's face it, whose left now besides U7? Other than Jiren/Toppo/Dyspo, there aren't any other major characters left now. The remaining fighters from the other universes will just get an e8pisode or two and be knocked out.

Plus strength isnt an indicator of who lasts to a certain degree anyway. Hit is certainly stronger than Piccolo for instance. It just takes some luck in the writing.

[namekiansaiyan]

Well Toppo got some pretty good spotlight too besides Jiren. Dyspo hasn't really done much though besides not get knocked out yet.

Besides that it's obvious Caulifa/Kale are the next most important characters in the tournament. Almost all of Universe 6 is falling one after the other, especially if Cabba gets knocked out next week and the two Nameks not too long after...the two Saiyan girls will be the only U6 members left.

Caulifla and Kale will be done by 115 as they would have had 5 episodes focused on them. There is surely no way they can get more than that. They are lucky they are even going to get a rematch with Goku.

I can see Caulifa/Kale making it to the last 10 fighters, honestly. It can be just like before, they fight a bit and get tired/beaten up, but instead of being knocked out they retreat and hide among the rocks.

I mean let's face it, whose left now besides U7? Other than Jiren/Toppo/Dyspo, there aren't any other major characters left now. The remaining fighters from the other universes will just get an episode or two and be knocked out.

Their screen time would be about double of anyone else if that happened. 3 episodes in a row after 2 before has they are finished written all over it. Episode 115 is suppose to be the 'ultimate saiyan showdown' and there surely has to be some knockouts there.

Plus strength isnt an indicator of who lasts to a certain degree anyway. Hit is certainly stronger than Piccolo for instance. It just takes some luck in the writing.

The difference with Hit and Piccolo is that Piccolo is cautious and won't put himself in any needless danger.

[avasatu]

No. Fewer fighters per universe would have been a better choice. I do like 6 or 8 universes competing, though. Six may have been better.

As for the quality of the warriors, it actually makes sense, though it's certainly not quite as interesting as it could be otherwise. That said, this is the kind of question for which I'm unable to form a meaningful opinion until the arc is over. It depends so heavily on how the entirety of the story is handled, along with how the remainder is handled.

How few is few? Because, if you say 3 or 4, then its going to be a saiyan fest, which everybody pretends to dislike.

Good question. 5 comes to mind.

[Cure Dragon 255]

In almost every ep of the TOP, someone is jobbing. It's like everyone is a jobber. The moment a character gets some spotlight, not counting Goku/Vegeta, you expect them to job in the next episode.

For example Frost got a big ep torturing Roshi. What happens in the next ep? He jobs to Freeza. Krillin had his spotlight ep, he jobs to Frost in the same ep. Tien jobbed when he didn't even know he was jobbing. Hit just jobbed to Jiren. The entire Pride Troopers but the final 3 all jobbed. The Yardrat jobbed easily to Freeza. All the "fodder" are essentially jobbers given they all get taken out easily.

It's like characters can't be taken out without being jobbers, only a few characters like Roshi have respectable exits. Here a job, there a job, everywhere a job job. I'm willing to bet the two Nameks job to Piccolo/Gohan next week.

We get it....they are all jobbers.

This made me laugh so fucking hard. You rock.

[Zagacious]

Fwiw I think the implication is that certain fighters are strong beyond mortal belief....not that everyone else is weak.

That's part of it sure, but most of them are so weak we could have 1 or 2 people from Universe 7 eliminating the huge majority of them. Android 17 alone could eliminate everyone except problably Toppo, Jiren, Hit, and Dyspo, which is 94% of the fighters not in U7. Android 17 is now kind of being hinted now as one of the stronger characters, but I still doubt he's SSB level just because he could spar with Goku SSB for a few seconds. All that aside if a Human with technological parts can be this strong there's no reason people from other universes can't be strong. Assuming Gohan is around 17's level or higher, (hard to say since he hasn't been training) then Gohan could probably solo all of them too. It's just a poor choice in making U7 so overpowered and making the other universes not matter so we can rush through the fights.

[GodKaio-Ken]

Fwiw I think the implication is that certain fighters are strong beyond mortal belief....not that everyone else is weak.

That's part of it sure, but most of them are so weak we could have 1 or 2 people from Universe 7 eliminating the huge majority of them. Android 17 alone could eliminate everyone except problably Toppo, Jiren, Hit, and Dyspo, which is 94% of the fighters not in U7. Android 17 is now kind of being hinted now as one of the stronger characters, but I still doubt he's SSB level just because he could spar with Goku SSB for a few seconds. All that aside if a Human with technological parts can be this strong there's no reason people from other universes can't be strong. Assuming Gohan is around 17's level or higher, (hard to say since he hasn't been training) then Gohan could probably solo all of them too. It's just a poor choice in making U7 so overpowered and making the other universes not matter so we can rush through the fights.

Oh I 100% agree with what you said and I dont think they pulled it off well. Just saying I'm pretty sure its what they were going for.

[Lionel]

I wouldn't have any qualms with seeing Piccolo or someone else who knows the Mafuba seal Jiren away then promptly toss him out of the arena. This tournament was supposed to embellish the underexposed elements of combat like ingenuity and ability. For the most part it's seemingly failed to live up to that expectation. I suspect that for a lot of fans watching Vegeta, Kale, or Jiren get eliminated by some dark horse underdog with a weird ability would not have sounded all too appealing, but what is it that you want? If a traditional fisticuffs battle is what you prefer then these alternative elements should not be advocated for. Personally, I would like to see more battles of the unorthodox nature as saw in the classic series like Guldo vs Krillin and Gohan.

On the original question -- maybe just a tad bit too many. You can tell that the majority of these fighters were built with the intention of being cast aside as one-note unremarkables. You have maybe a handful at best with any meaningful development; the rest are disposable pawns to prop up particular characters, mostly the Saiyans.

[Simere]

This tournament was supposed to embellish the underexposed elements of combat like ingenuity and ability. For the most part it's seemingly failed to live up to that expectation. I suspect that for a lot of fans watching Vegeta, Kale, or Jiren get eliminated by some dark horse underdog with a weird ability would not have sounded all too appealing, but what is it that you want?

A "traditional fisticuffs" battle, because what you call ingenuity I call desperation, and what you call ability I call inability.

If a traditional fisticuffs battle is what you prefer then these alternative elements should not be advocated for.

Maybe so, but nor should anyone have bought fully into it. I was there from the start saying that they wouldn't upheave the way combat in DB works; that it was mostly meaningless puffery.

[GodKaio-Ken]

I wouldn't have any qualms with seeing Piccolo or someone else who knows the Mafuba seal Jiren away then promptly toss him out of the arena. This tournament was supposed to embellish the underexposed elements of combat like ingenuity and ability. For the most part it's seemingly failed to live up to that expectation. I suspect that for a lot of fans watching Vegeta, Kale, or Jiren get eliminated by some dark horse underdog with a weird ability would not have sounded all too appealing, but what is it that you want? If a traditional fisticuffs battle is what you prefer then these alternative elements should not be advocated for. Personally, I would like to see more battles of the unorthodox nature as saw in the classic series like Guldo vs Krillin and Gohan.

On the original question -- maybe just a tad bit too many. You can tell that the majority of these fighters were built with the intention of being cast aside as one-note unremarkables. You have maybe a handful at best with any meaningful development; the rest are disposable pawns to prop up particular characters, mostly the Saiyans.

There is a huge difference between advocating strategy in fights and wanting the worst to beat the best using strategy.

An example would be...and dont take this literal I could use any characters:

Jiren is an A, Goku is a B, Gohan is a C

Goku, using strategy could beat Jiren if he made a mistake or was a little off. Gohan on the other jand being a C would need additional stars to align.

In other words...there is a lot of room between "Strategy is everything" and "Strategy is nothing"

[Lionel]

I wouldn't have any qualms with seeing Piccolo or someone else who knows the Mafuba seal Jiren away then promptly toss him out of the arena. This tournament was supposed to embellish the underexposed elements of combat like ingenuity and ability. For the most part it's seemingly failed to live up to that expectation. I suspect that for a lot of fans watching Vegeta, Kale, or Jiren get eliminated by some dark horse underdog with a weird ability would not have sounded all too appealing, but what is it that you want? If a traditional fisticuffs battle is what you prefer then these alternative elements should not be advocated for. Personally, I would like to see more battles of the unorthodox nature as saw in the classic series like Guldo vs Krillin and Gohan.

On the original question -- maybe just a tad bit too many. You can tell that the majority of these fighters were built with the intention of being cast aside as one-note unremarkables. You have maybe a handful at best with any meaningful development; the rest are disposable pawns to prop up particular characters, mostly the Saiyans.

There is a huge difference between advocating strategy in fights and wanting the worst to beat the best using strategy.

An example would be...and dont take this literal I could use any characters:

Jiren is an A, Goku is a B, Gohan is a C

Goku, using strategy could beat Jiren if he made a mistake or was a little off. Gohan on the other jand being a C would need additional stars to align.

In other words...there is a lot of room between "Strategy is everything" and "Strategy is nothing"

Most of the strategies employed don't take up much effort or time. It's one of the most glaring setbacks to the idea of a weaker character defeating a stronger one. I can't see either Toriyama or Toei foregoing the established system anytime soon, if at all. Some favours were afforded for this recent arc, most especially in the aspect of team cooperation which seems to be a quality they're making a genuine effort to stress. However, in the other respect that emphasises the qualities of what this tournament is about which Krillin managed to demonstrate to Gohan during their sparring match, it's been hit or miss at best.

I do maintain the belief that the Dracula Man fight against Upa and Puar remains as one of the best examples of strategy and technique overcoming power. Granted, it was interpreted in a gag light which characterised so much of early Dragon Ball.