Has Vegeta been a good character as of recently? I think not.

[Mercenary]

Vegeta is switching from his Cell saga self to Buu Saga self. And that's the main problem.

[infermon]

After absolutely loving his characterisation for the first 67 episodes of the show, this arc has made Vegeta near-intolerable to me. At this juncture it feels like neither Toriyama or the week-to-week writers have anything interesting for him to do. Which, y'know, would be fine - he's had four arcs worth of prominence, let him have a backseat this go around. Except he's still been getting heaps of screentime and most of the eliminations for Universe 7 while other, more interesting members of the team get wayyy less focus. I'm not someone who's desperate for characters I like to succeed just because I like them, but I'd be lying if I said it didn't sting a little that so much of the recruitment portion of this arc was about reiterating "Power isn't everything! Strategy and teamwork are what counts in this tournament"... and then the first four fighters of Universe 7 to be eliminated were the only ones willing to listen to Gohan and work as a team, while lone wolf pissbaby Vegeta is actively rewarded for his selfish behaviour because he's just that strong. It just feels deeply unsatisfying to me to setup something as interesting and different for Dragon Ball as battle powers not mattering for a change, and then mostly abandoning that because... Vegeta is popular, I guess? I don't know. I don't hate Super, but it's stuff like this that serves as a reminder that for Dragon Ball in the 21st century, marketability overrides organic storytelling. In fairness this arc isn't over yet, and maybe they'll find something legitimately compelling for Vegeta to do in the coming weeks, but I don't know whether that'd end up justifying scenes as frustrating as him not contributing to the Genki Dama for me.

[HybridSaiyan]

I'm still at a loss as to why he never assisted to the Spirit Bomb. Wasn't It Vegeta's Idea to use the technique against Buu? He literally put aside his pride to broadcast his voice and opinion worldwide in order for the Earthlings to contribute. I'm so disappointed with the way his character Is being portrayed in this arc, he's regressing so much and as a huge Vegeta fan, this hurts a lot.

Even In the Non Canon Broly movie he helped lend his energy to Goku and that was during his Cell/arrogant badass self period.

[SupremeKai25]

I'm still at a loss as to why he never assisted to the Spirit Bomb. Wasn't It Vegeta's Idea to use the technique against Buu? He literally put aside his pride to broadcast his voice and opinion worldwide in order for the Earthlings to contribute. I'm so disappointed with the way his character Is being portrayed in this arc, he's regressing so much and as a huge Vegeta fan, this hurts a lot.

Even In the Non Canon Broly movie he helped lend his energy to Goku and that was during his Cell/arrogant badass self period.

And don't forget he gave his energy to defeat Fused Zamasu, although that was only after Goku had told him to give his energy to Trunks.

[Asura]

I'm still at a loss as to why he never assisted to the Spirit Bomb. Wasn't It Vegeta's Idea to use the technique against Buu? He literally put aside his pride to broadcast his voice and opinion worldwide in order for the Earthlings to contribute. I'm so disappointed with the way his character Is being portrayed in this arc, he's regressing so much and as a huge Vegeta fan, this hurts a lot.

Even In the Non Canon Broly movie he helped lend his energy to Goku and that was during his Cell/arrogant badass self period.

I fully agree with this and still don't understand why he never assisted in contributing energy to the Spirit Bomb. The reasoning people made up for this (because of course people have to try and rationalize every nonsensical writing decision TOEI makes) was that he instead opted to protect Goku instead of giving energy via getting rid of Ribrianne. This doesn't make any real sense though since there's no reason why he couldn't have done these two things at once, and if this was indeed the intention then they did a horrible job of showing anything more than Vegeta bearing some silly nonsensical grudge. What was even sillier after all of this was that he actually thought he could take on Jiren after seeing the spirit bomb fail spectacularly. That kind of arrogance is something we last saw in the Cell arc.

I don't like the direction Super has gone in with Vegeta's character. It directly contradicts how he acts at the end of the Buu arc and in EoZ. However, I will say that what they've done with his character in this direction has been really good for the vast majority of Super. He's gotten some great character development moments, especially during the FT arc. For some reason though they've decided to regress on all of that for this arc, and Vegeta feels heavily out of character compared to how he acted in previous arcs. The only times Vegeta has been in-character was his discussions with Cabba and his rage about U6 (and Cabba) being erased. Otherwise, almost everything else he's done in this arc has been a complete regression in his character and I'm left confused and disappointed at their writing decisions with Vegeta.

[PsionicWarrior]

I don't like the direction Super has gone in with Vegeta's character. It directly contradicts how he acts at the end of the Buu arc and in EoZ. However, I will say that what they've done with his character in this direction has been really good for the vast majority of Super. He's gotten some great character development moments, especially during the FT arc. For some reason though they've decided to regress on all of that for this arc, and Vegeta feels heavily out of character compared to how he acted in previous arcs. The only times Vegeta has been in-character was his discussions with Cabba and his rage about U6 (and Cabba) being erased. Otherwise, almost everything else he's done in this arc has been a complete regression in his character and I'm left confused and disappointed at their writing decisions with Vegeta.

It is true and I agree it is sad they keep missing the hit with him, he's roughly an inferior version of Goku right now while he's prolly the best written character in the series originally. Guess I've been too tolerant and rants about Vegeta should rise again lol

[JazzMazz]

I got into an interesting conversation with Terez on both twitter and on a discord server about the full implications of the Vegeta's "you are number speech" and he presented a point of view I hadn't really seen before. These are their thoughts, however, I do think its worth mentioning, these images are taken from two different conversations, so I apoligize if they appear sort of muddled in terms of ordering.
[spoiler]






https://imgur.com/a/VRqad
Context for scenes they were responding to

Seperate converstation

[/spoiler]
Do people think this point of view adequately explains the full context for the number 1 scene, and why it may not mean it was means on first looks, as well as Vegeta's motivation to surpass Goku being more prevelant in this arc.
EDIT: I also think this view is lends scenes like this credibilty to the audience, when they are preceded by scenes like this, this and this.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

^That is what I'm talking about. People treat Vegeta as though he's entirely literal and idiotic, failing to realize that he's already learned his lesson and that he's mostly just boastful and cocky like pretty much ALL proud pure-blooded Saiyans are, especially one hailing from his heritage.

Goku INSPIRES Vegeta nowadays, though it's not immediately obvious. He gets frustrated when the goalpost gets shifted, but who wouldn't be if your own rival IRL kept one-upping his one-upping of you?

He's still entirely within character, it's just that his competitive side shows through more in this tournament side than his compassionate side, but that other half is still present, just in more subtle and non-overt ways.

[TBMx]

What do you all expect? With so little screentime for the character, they have to reduce him to soundbites. And if have to reduce him to soundbites, they have to be the classic, iconic Vegeta-isms.
So it'll be "I'll beat you Kakarot! I'll surpass you! DAMMIT!! You Bastard!"

It's what happens when the character doesn't have a scene that lasts longer than a minute since episode 66.

It's not a fundamental problem with the character, it's the fact that he's simply not given the time or attention to work as a rival for Goku, much less an "eternal" one.

[JazzMazz]

What do you all expect? With so little screentime for the character, they have to reduce him to soundbites. And if have to reduce him to soundbites, they have to be the classic, iconic Vegeta-isms.
So it'll be "I'll beat you Kakarot! I'll surpass you! DAMMIT!! You Bastard!"

It's what happens when the character doesn't have a scene that lasts longer than a minute since episode 66.

It's not a fundamental problem with the character, it's the fact that he's simply not given the time or attention to work as a rival for Goku, much less an "eternal" one.

Um, who know, they actually make a point about how Vegeta has gotten frustrated with Goku constantly ignoring him ala episode 91.

[Amir]

Agreed OP, i really detest the character of Vegeta. They threw his entire character development in Z out of the window. Remember when he aknowledged Goku would always be superior during the Kid Buu fight? Now he wants to master Ultra Instinct before Goku?! Get lost. I chuckle when people say he cares about his family. If i recall correctly, he didn't give a damn that Black killed Future Bulma in the Trunks' arc. Plus remember when he charged Black and Zamasu without any strategy whatsoever? Ridiculous. I genuinely cheered when Black stabbed that prick and put him in his place. He's just a warm-up, nothing more.

name one fight Goku won in super that mattered and Freeza doesn't count since he lost first.

He won the beam struggle against Fused Zamasu. His victory in that fight mattered -a lot-. Had Fused Zamasu won, the Divine Wrath would have obliterated the planet. In addition, his victory in that fight resulted in the balance between Zamasu's immortal soul and half-mortal body deteroriating, which led to Zamasu devolving into a deranged and corrupted form.

He had a flashback remembering what Trunks said about Black and what he did to his family, then got angry and said he will never forgive them. Stop saying stuff that isn't true for the sake of your dislike to Vegeta. BlHe clearly cares and loves his family and he has many lines in Super to back it up. Especially in the FT arc, when he was really awesome. Also stop this misconception. Vegeta never said Goku will always be the superior warrior. He only said it at the time, there was no "will always" in his statement. Did you want him to simply give up and do nothing? That would have been pathetic. It doesn't even make sense for Vegeta to say something like this.

Yes, I agree he is currently really boring and even a bit one dimensional in this tournament. I hate it, he was so good in the previous arc, but clearly he is a side character now with nothing to offer, all he has been doing is fighting fodders and screaming "dammit" or "damn Kakarrot" other than episode 112 where he was cool.

[SupremeKai25]

He got emotional about the fate of the future counterpart of his actual family? Wow, so he did something in Super that didn't involve fighting or lamenting over his own inferiority. Impressive display of maturity on Vegeta's end.

Yes, of course he cares about his family, it's not like he has anything left for that matter. He is the king of nothing and nobody. He's just second fiddle. A family is all he has left, even Goku has moved on and settled for a new arch-rival. But perhaps i'm giving this character too much importance. As you said, he's just a side character, nothing more.

Did you want him to simply give up and do nothing? That would have been pathetic. It doesn't even make sense for Vegeta to say something like this.

Yep, i overestimated his intelligence and sense. I thought he'd realize he'll always be second best and quit wasting everyone's time, but he's just too vainglorious, self-absorbed and self-righteous to realize his natural inferiority. Oh well.

[Asura]

I said it before and I’ll say it again, GT Vegeta > Super Vegeta.

Vegeta’s only problem in GT is that he’s barely given any screen time and focus and we don’t see him training that oftn , but his interactions with Goku make so much more sense after coming off the Buu saga and what little we saw of him at the EoZ. They’re no longer rivals really, just friends. That should have been the direction they went in with Super, especially since Goku is being given new rivals in the form of Hit and Jiren.

[Michsi]

I said it before and I’ll say it again, GT Vegeta > Super Vegeta.

Vegeta’s only problem in GT is that he’s barely given any screen time and focus and we don’t see him training that oftn , but his interactions with Goku make so much more sense after coming off the Buu saga and what little we saw of him at the EoZ. They’re no longer rivals really, just friends. That should have been the direction they went in with Super, especially since Goku is being given new rivals in the form of Hit and Jiren.

But,but....rivalry. He's the blue oni to Goku's red oni.


Seriously though, I feel like they wouldn't know what to do with him should he suddenly stop caring about chasing after and yelling at Goku. I've said this before, this holy shonen rivalry is actually something that has formed in the collective consciousness of the fandom in the years after original DB's end. It's never been that much of a thing in the original. While it elevated Vegeta to secondary character status, it also trapped in a role that isn't really doing his character any favors.

[Chuquita]

I think for Vegeta to be replaced you'd need to introduce his replacement as a new permanent addition to the main cast who would also be present in the main storylines. Being Vegeta's replacement means you're also the second main character in Super. That person also has to have good chemistry with Gokû, since they'd be his rival.

The problem with the idea of Hit or Jiren as Vegeta's replacement is they're not gonna give up their lives in their own universes to move to Universe 7 and hang out on Earth all the time like Vegeta did. Hit has his job as an assassin for hire and Jiren has his job as a pride trooper (I love dumb phone miscorrections--it had Jiren down as a prude trouser) and while they both have interest in Gokû, they lack the sometimes crazy passion Vegeta has. I'd also argue that so far Jiren has no chemistry at all with Gokû, so I'd pick Hit over Jiren.

[Doctor.]

I think for Vegeta to be replaced you'd need to introduce his replacement as a new permanent addition to the main cast who would also be present in the main storylines. Being Vegeta's replacement means you're also the second main character in Super. That person also has to have good chemistry with Gokû, since they'd be his rival.

Beerus fits all these requirements. Especially now that Goku has surpassed or reached his level, he no longer fills the role of master.

[HeroR]

I think for Vegeta to be replaced you'd need to introduce his replacement as a new permanent addition to the main cast who would also be present in the main storylines. Being Vegeta's replacement means you're also the second main character in Super. That person also has to have good chemistry with Gokû, since they'd be his rival.

The problem with the idea of Hit or Jiren as Vegeta's replacement is they're not gonna give up their lives in their own universes to move to Universe 7 and hang out on Earth all the time like Vegeta did. Hit has his job as an assassin for hire and Jiren has his job as a pride trooper (I love dumb phone miscorrections--it had Jiren down as a prude trouser) and while they both have interest in Gokû, they lack the sometimes crazy passion Vegeta has. I'd also argue that so far Jiren has no chemistry at all with Gokû, so I'd pick Hit over Jiren.

No one has to move in with Goku to be his main rival. That’s certainly not the case with many manga rivals. In fact, not seeing the rival all the time makes the interaction more impactful.

In other words, we don’t need a Vegeta 2.0.

[Chuquita]

I think for Vegeta to be replaced you'd need to introduce his replacement as a new permanent addition to the main cast who would also be present in the main storylines. Being Vegeta's replacement means you're also the second main character in Super. That person also has to have good chemistry with Gokû, since they'd be his rival.

Beerus fits all these requirements. Especially now that Goku has surpassed or reached his level, he no longer fills the role of master.

I don't know if there's something they're planning to do with Beerus come the end of this arc though; I'd need to know how the ToP finale plays out first.

I think for Vegeta to be replaced you'd need to introduce his replacement as a new permanent addition to the main cast who would also be present in the main storylines. Being Vegeta's replacement means you're also the second main character in Super. That person also has to have good chemistry with Gokû, since they'd be his rival.

The problem with the idea of Hit or Jiren as Vegeta's replacement is they're not gonna give up their lives in their own universes to move to Universe 7 and hang out on Earth all the time like Vegeta did. Hit has his job as an assassin for hire and Jiren has his job as a pride trooper (I love dumb phone miscorrections--it had Jiren down as a prude trouser) and while they both have interest in Gokû, they lack the sometimes crazy passion Vegeta has. I'd also argue that so far Jiren has no chemistry at all with Gokû, so I'd pick Hit over Jiren.

No one has to move in with Goku to be his main rival. That’s certainly not the case with many manga rivals. In fact, not seeing the rival all the time makes the interaction more impactful.

In other words, we don’t need a Vegeta 2.0.

I don't read that much shounen manga anymore, but I guess (I could be wrong) you're talking about Sasuke from Naruto who was gone for what I think were many volumes of the manga at a time? Again I don't know because I dropped off of Naruto pretty early on and only vaguely know what happens after the chuunin exams.

If Super was a weekly manga, OR if it ever escapes this molasses-like pace that the ToP has thrust it into, I could see that then. Just not at the crawling pace Super's currently moving at.

[HeroR]

I don't read that much shounen manga anymore, but I guess (I could be wrong) you're talking about Sasuke from Naruto who was gone for what I think were many volumes of the manga at a time? Again I don't know because I dropped off of Naruto pretty early on and only vaguely know what happens after the chuunin exams.

If Super was a weekly manga, OR if it ever escapes this molasses-like pace that the ToP has thrust it into, I could see that then. Just not at the crawling pace Super's currently moving at.

I was talking about shounen in general like Pokemon or even MHA.

And the tourument isn’t all that slow. It’s slow by Super’s standards.

[Chuquita]

I don't read that much shounen manga anymore, but I guess (I could be wrong) you're talking about Sasuke from Naruto who was gone for what I think were many volumes of the manga at a time? Again I don't know because I dropped off of Naruto pretty early on and only vaguely know what happens after the chuunin exams.

If Super was a weekly manga, OR if it ever escapes this molasses-like pace that the ToP has thrust it into, I could see that then. Just not at the crawling pace Super's currently moving at.

I was talking about shounen in general like Pokemon or even MHA.

And the tourument isn’t all that slow. It’s slow by Super’s standards.

Pokemon I dropped off at the beginning of Johto, so yeah I do remember how Gary would only show up every once in a blue moon and it was an event when he did.

Even though I really like the character designer for MHA (Umakoshi's the same guy who designed characters for HeartCatch Precure) MHA's premise didn't grab me and I have no real interest in picking it up.

I agree, it is just slow by Super's standards. When I was skimming through another thread the other day someone was talking about how many weeks the Freeza and Buu arcs took (one was 50 eps and the other as 70? Something like that). I just got used to and enjoyed having arcs that began and wrapped up in 16 to 18 weeks.