Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #1 Thread: "Broly"

[PFM18]

Gohan better have a fighting role in this. Makes me sick to my stomach just to go back to the Goku and Vegeta show again.

Don't get your hopes up. Gohan never liked fighting and now he focuses on academics as an adult. Goku and Vegeta are the true-blooded Saiyan warriors so naturally they have the big fighting roles and the most strength.

[Kataphrut]

I don't expect we're going to see anything beyond Goku/Vegeta/probably Freeza vs Broly. The more I hear about this, the more it feels like it's just going to be another back-to-basics slobberknocker featuring the only characters Toriyama cares about, plus one new villain (well, new to him anyway). The big hook aside from that is some new Saiyan/Freeza lore and the rebooted Broly.

The anomaly is Piccolo being marketed, but I think that's just because he's like the third most iconic character behind Goku and Vegeta, even if he hasn't done anything notable in forever. But I don't expect Gohan, Bulma, Goten or Trunks to be anything more than extras. Any of the new Super characters like Hit, Jiren, Cabba, Caulifla, etc. is a huge stretch. And Broly's appearance rules Kale right out, she'd be too much of an elephant in the room to have just as a side-character.

[Grimlock]

Gohan better have a fighting role in this. Makes me sick to my stomach just to go back to the Goku and Vegeta show again.

He already had a fighting role in the previous saga. A certainly major problem would be leaving out Goten and Trunks again, and even if they somehow make their way to this random movie, another major problem will be if they appear as kids once again.

Well, since it's all about fanservice and forcing "nostalgia" down everyone's throats, one can expect that's exactly what's gonna be with them, either they won't appear or, if they do, they'll continue to be ridiculously inaccurate.

[AnimeNation101]

I don't expect we're going to see anything beyond Goku/Vegeta/probably Freeza vs Broly. The more I hear about this, the more it feels like it's just going to be another back-to-basics slobberknocker featuring the only characters Toriyama cares about, plus one new villain (well, new to him anyway). The big hook aside from that is some new Saiyan/Freeza lore and the rebooted Broly.

The anomaly is Piccolo being marketed, but I think that's just because he's like the third most iconic character behind Goku and Vegeta, even if he hasn't done anything notable in forever. But I don't expect Gohan, Bulma, Goten or Trunks to be anything more than extras. Any of the new Super characters like Hit, Jiren, Cabba, Caulifla, etc. is a huge stretch. And Broly's appearance rules Kale right out, she'd be too much of an elephant in the room to have just as a side-character.

Gohan is more iconic that Piccolo IMO or at least more popular. I don’t see the logic that since Broly is in, Kale is out. If anything, the presence of Broly heightens Kale’s chnaces. It brings out the possibility of a fan-service fight of Kale vs Broly, since Broly can use SSBerserk, Goku and Vegeta can bring up Kale as a reference to the form and since their movie is also about the origins of the saiyans’ power, we could get an origin for the power of SSBerserk. This is all important to Kale as much as it would be to Broly.

[ShaggyBlanco]

Unfortunately I do think it's gonna be like any other Broly+ Z movie, with saiyans getting stomped until Goku goes UI and finishes it up, I hope I'm wrong, but so far the most unique part of the movie seems to be the "History of Saiyans" part, and the art/animation of course
It's weird how unlikely it is for characters from Super to show up in a Super Movie, but oh well...

[Marlowe89]

I'd like Gohan to play some role, it's ridiculous to build him back into a fighter just to do nothing again. I'd also like Trunks/Goten to finally do something but I know that's a longshot.

I don't care about seeing any of them unless they have a specific role to play in the film's plot. This constant back-and-forth shift between ambiguous businessman stuff and fighting is seriously offputting and makes Gohan's entire character arc in the series feel like an incoherent mess. His story should have ended at being a scholar; it's the one thing I actually appreciated about his development. Universe Survival Gohan is a joke.

So Broly decided to get Dumplin/Puddin colors?

He decided to get his daily prescription from Doctor Piccolo. Don't you dare judge him!

In all seriousness, I'm totally down with Broly's new color scheme. The green pelt complements his transformation and almost feels like a symbolic departure from the red waist clothing in his first movie. The purple also complements the green in a similar manner to Goku's contrasting red and blue outfit. It's pretty cool. Toriyama knows his color theory stuff.

[PFM18]

I don't care about seeing any of them unless they have a specific role to play in the film's plot. This constant back-and-forth shift between ambiguous businessman stuff and fighting is seriously offputting and makes Gohan's entire character arc in the series feel like an incoherent mess. His story should have ended at being a scholar; it's the one thing I actually appreciated about his development. Universe Survival Gohan is a joke.

Well isn't it part of his development to learn how to balance family life and training/being a warrior? He wanted to train after RoF but that obviously wasn't the priority he was still the family man/academic first and fighter second. I like how he learned to kind of do both.

[BlueBasilisk]

Unless Broly is directly threatening the Earth or his family, I don't see Gohan going out of his way to get involved.

[Marlowe89]

Well isn't it part of his development to learn how to balance family life and training/being a warrior?

That's one interpretation, but I don't think the show went about it in a convincing way at all. To be clear: I don't hate Gohan, just his portrayal.

Whatever the case, if he's got nothing impactful in this movie then he's pretty much fluff as far as I'm concerned. Definitely don't see him making any major appearances if they're going to another planet, which looks to be a very real possibility at this rate.

[PFM18]

I know this has already been brought up a million times but with the information we have now, do you guys expect SSBE and SSBKK to show up in the movie?

[dragon boss z]

I know this has already been brought up a million times but with the information we have now, do you guys expect SSBE and SSBKK to show up in the movie?

Ya I asked that as well. I think it's an interesting though since those aren't Toriyama original forms. I doubt Toriyama will write them into the plot, but I could see Toei adding them due to fans probably getting confused if they get beat up Broly and not use them. I think it could go either way, I'm not sure what I would rather have either. Well I don't really like Vegeta's form at all as it makes no sense and isn't explained, but I do like SSBKK.

[Jaden]

Gotta say I still think his old cloth suits him better, but I guess it's just because I'm used to it. My opinion may change once the movie's out..
[spoiler][/spoiler]

[PFM18]

I know this has already been brought up a million times but with the information we have now, do you guys expect SSBE and SSBKK to show up in the movie?

Ya I asked that as well. I think it's an interesting though since those aren't Toriyama original forms. I doubt Toriyama will write them into the plot, but I could see Toei adding them due to fans probably getting confused if they get beat up Broly and not use them. I think it could go either way, I'm not sure what I would rather have either. Well I don't really like Vegeta's form at all as it makes no sense and isn't explained, but I do like SSBKK.

How would you expect them to explain it? "Yeah this is the first time this form was achieved but let me explain to you all the specifics on it" like who could possinly provide this exposition?

[Shaddy]

I mean, Legend/Berserker isn't a Toriyama form either. I don't think he's above taking a crack at someone else's form, especially since his forms have had at least some detail or level of distinction from others, whereas BluEvo just...doesn't.

[dragon boss z]

How would you expect them to explain it? "Yeah this is the first time this form was achieved but let me explain to you all the specifics on it" like who could possibly provide this exposition?

They could have had something as simple as saying he found the next level of Blue, or something along those lines. I don't remember if anybody even acknowledged he even transformed at all. Same thing with Trunk's transformation. It made no sense, and wasn't explained. If they wanted to give them power boosts we have very simple ways and explanations. Trunks could have went ssj3, and Vegeta's was actually originaly designed to make sense as it was originally going to be just grade 2 SSB like grade 2 ssj, basically Super Vegeta Blue just like how there was super Vegeta in the Cell saga, but they decided to change it to just a new Blue palat. I meant they could even do SSB2 or SSB3 as if they can mix SSG with ssj I don't see why they can't do it with ssj2 or ssj3. But those power ups make sense and Goku should be able to get it to, but Vegeta just all of a sudden getting a new form that nobody mentions is just bad writing. Super already has too many forms to begin with, just adding new forms isn't good writing.

[ZeroNeonix]

I mean, Legend/Berserker isn't a Toriyama form either. I don't think he's above taking a crack at someone else's form, especially since his forms have had at least some detail or level of distinction from others, whereas BluEvo just...doesn't.

Eh. Can you tell the difference between Super Saiyan and Super Saiyan 2? I can't. When the lightning isn't there to clue you in, it's pretty hard to tell. I think the second form is supposed to be sharper and longer, but that doesn't seem to be consistent. The differences definitely aren't as dramatic as with Super Saiyan 3.

[ZeroNeonix]

People getting excited over Super Saiyan God showing up in the stickers. You know he's only going to use that form for five seconds. It'll get used before Goku takes the fight completely seriously while he gauges Broly's power, then he'll go straight to Blue like during the Tournament of Power.

[goku the krump dancer]

Not sure how I feel about Broly's presumed Full Power form looking just like his plain old LSSJ Form, though that is a major part of what makes him iconic. I guess I was expecting something different giving the small piece of the transformation sequence we got in the teaser specifically with the whole "Eye Thing" being almost two toned like in comparison to SSJ4.

[PFM18]

They could have had something as simple as saying he found the next level of Blue, or something along those lines. I don't remember if anybody even acknowledged he even transformed at all.

What are you talking about? They said something pretty similar to what you mentioned about the next level of Blue. People DID acknowledge it they literally had an entire sequence where everyone stopped and talked about what had just happened to Vegeta. The Daishinkan said that he "broke through his limits of his form" or something to that extent. Whis and I believe the peanut gallery also made comments about Vegeta's evolution. Nothing super specific, because again, this is the first time anybody had ever achieved this transformation so it would be strange for anybody there to know all of the details on the form.

As far as it not making sense it made perfect sense it was the turning point when his priorities and motivations within the tournament were about somebody else. He started fighting for somebody else and his priorities shifted from surpassing Goku. It was being built up from the time that Goku achieved UI and Vegeta was pissed that he had surpassed him. Then, the next time Goku achieves UI he doesn't get pissed. Then he says "You can have your Ultra Instinct I'll find my own way to break my limits!" and that is exactly what he did. Goku went KKx20 and Vegeta would normally be pissed that Goku surpassed him but instead he could only think about reviving Cabba and keeping his promise. That's when he achieved the form. Then he unlocked the full-power of the form against Toppo when he thought about his family and how that is who makes him who he is and that he wants to protect them etc.

Vegeta's was actually originaly designed to make sense as it was originally going to be just grade 2 SSB like grade 2 ssj, basically Super Vegeta Blue just like how there was super Vegeta in the Cell saga

Thank god they changed it then. That would have been ridiculous. The entire concept of making your muscles bigger to get stronger was rendered obsolete long ago and it would go against the entire focus of Whis's training and becoming ridiculously strong through ki control. To suddenly decide to go back to using ki to increase your muscles would have been bizarre especially since he berated Trunks for doing it.(albeit Trunks used Grade 3 but still.) It would be retreading old ground that would have made absolutely no sense. Instead, he evolves his Blue form and breaks through his previous limitations.

But Vegeta just all of a sudden getting a new form that nobody mentions is just bad writing. Super already has too many forms to begin with, just adding new forms isn't good writing.

This is just false. Not only are you incorrect that nobody mentioned the form, but to say Super has too many forms when it has the same number as DBZ is ridiculous. This is certainly not in any way an example of bad writing.

[dragon boss z]

What are you talking about? They said something pretty similar to what you mentioned about the next level of Blue. People DID acknowledge it they literally had an entire sequence where everyone stopped and talked about what had just happened to Vegeta. The Daishinkan said that he "broke through his limits of his form" or something to that extent. Whis and I believe the peanut gallery also made comments about Vegeta's evolution. Nothing super specific, because again, this is the first time anybody had ever achieved this transformation so it would be strange for anybody there to know all of the details on the form.

Ah ya I forgot about that, but still just saying he changed a different shade of blue because he broke his limits doesn't really make sense. It seems like they just needed to power him up because Goku had kaioken.

As far as it not making sense it made perfect sense it was the turning point when his priorities and motivations within the tournament were about somebody else. He started fighting for somebody else and his priorities shifted from surpassing Goku. It was being built up from the time that Goku achieved UI and Vegeta was pissed that he had surpassed him. Then, the next time Goku achieves UI he doesn't get pissed. Then he says "You can have your Ultra Instinct I'll find my own way to break my limits!" and that is exactly what he did. Goku went KKx20 and Vegeta would normally be pissed that Goku surpassed him but instead he could only think about reviving Cabba and keeping his promise. That's when he achieved the form. Then he unlocked the full-power of the form against Toppo when he thought about his family and how that is who makes him who he is and that he wants to protect them etc.

Well I don't think ultra instinct made sense either. The idea of it does (dodging and attacking without thinking) but how that suddenly became a form with white hair I don't know. It makes more sense how Beerus and Whis use it as a technique rather than a transformation. Like I said above it seems like the Vegeta form was more of a consolation prize.

Thank god they changed it then. That would have been ridiculous. The entire concept of making your muscles bigger to get stronger was rendered obsolete long ago and it would go against the entire focus of Whis's training and becoming ridiculously strong through ki control. To suddenly decide to go back to using ki to increase your muscles would have been bizarre especially since he berated Trunks for doing it.(albeit Trunks used Grade 3 but still.) It would be retreading old ground that would have made absolutely no sense. Instead, he evolves his Blue form and breaks through his previous limitations.

It wasn't actually overly muscular or anything. It was actually the same muscular level as how he is in SSBE. Also I believe grade 2 ssj was actually stated to be stronger and faster than regular ssj, though I agree they ended up saying ssj was superior and I do think SSB grade 2 isn't a good idea either, it just seems like a logical possibility as a type of power up Vegeta could get with what we know. SSB2 would make more sense though as ssj2 is just better than ssj in pretty much every way.

This is just false. Not only are you incorrect that nobody mentioned the form, but to say Super has too many forms when it has the same number as DBZ is ridiculous. This is certainly not in any way an example of bad writing.

It is bad writing and it was bad writing in Z as well. Even though dragon ball is one of my favorite series, even the original was never really "well written". Toriyama literally admitted to making up the story as he goes. I don't mind new forms, I like them when placed properly. For example I thought SSG was good. SSB was kind of uneeded but it seemed to be the replacement for SSG as that was a ritual only form it seemed. Now that it's been shown SSG is actually just a form they can go into whenever it just turned into another outdated form. Golden Frieza was fine as Frieza needed a way to power up and he just got one new transformation the whole series. Trunks should have either got ssj3 or nothing at all imo. I don't mind him getting a rage boost like Vegeta did, but how does being made create a randomly new form? Why didn't anyone else get that when mad? SSR is ok as it is SSB but Zamasu's version. Hit, Jiren, Whis, and Beerus are good examples of strong characters who don't need forms and I think that is a good thing. Really the form problem is more of the Super anime thing, the manga has like half as many forms telling the same story, so it's not Toriyama I feel it's more Toei wanting to sell more merchandise, which from a business standpoint makes sense. I'm not a Super hater, but I give criticism when it's due, I'm not just a dragon ball apologist.