PFM18 wrote:
I'm not "the one" that said Base Caulifla could one shot Buu. It is bordering on a universally accepted fact at this point. But yes, they are extremely, insanely powerful and I think that it wouldn't hurt to elaborate on why they are so strong.
U6 Saiyans essentially act as a freelance Mercenary Group that hunts down criminals all across the universe. They're basically the Pride Troopers without the overzealous Justice thing. You could even consider them a publicly funded military police company. Since they are fighting in the best interests of the Public, they get paid and are in good standing. So you could say that they do get more training and more active roles than the U7 Saiyans ever had when they were just sent to conquer planets whose inhabitants weren't much of a threat.
The Evolution of U6 Saiyans can explain in part why they get stronger more efficiently and quickly when compared to U7 Saiyans. It also helps that they are more active on a galactic stage, whereas Goku and company tend to bum around on Earth when there's nothing to do. Vegeta hardly trained at all while Bulma was pregnant and Goku was forced to plant and harvest crops to cover their food costs. The only major training they had done in years was on Beerus' planet with Whis and in the Room of Spirit and Time. So U6 Saiyans do have a bit of leeway that'd allow them to catch up in strength. Especially since they didn't have someone who went out of their way to exterminate their species.
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PFM18 wrote:
I'm not "the one" that said Base Caulifla could one shot Buu. It is bordering on a universally accepted fact at this point. But yes, they are extremely, insanely powerful and I think that it wouldn't hurt to elaborate on why they are so strong.
U6 Saiyans essentially act as a freelance Mercenary Group that hunts down criminals all across the universe. They're basically the Pride Troopers without the overzealous Justice thing. You could even consider them a publicly funded military police company. Since they are fighting in the best interests of the Public, they get paid and are in good standing. So you could say that they do get more training and more active roles than the U7 Saiyans ever had when they were just sent to conquer planets whose inhabitants weren't much of a threat.
The Evolution of U6 Saiyans can explain in part why they get stronger more efficiently and quickly when compared to U7 Saiyans. It also helps that they are more active on a galactic stage, whereas Goku and company tend to bum around on Earth when there's nothing to do. Vegeta hardly trained at all while Bulma was pregnant and Goku was forced to plant and harvest crops to cover their food costs. The only major training they had done in years was on Beerus' planet with Whis and in the Room of Spirit and Time. So U6 Saiyans do have a bit of leeway that'd allow them to catch up in strength. Especially since they didn't have someone who went out of their way to exterminate their species.
That's pretty fair. I can accept that.
Forget everything I said about their power not being explained enough lol.
Spoiler:
Super carries on much of Dragon Ball and Z's charm in ways that might not immediately be obvious, while also bringing something new to the table. I certainly can't think of any previous arcs like Goku Black, and, for all its problems, the Tournament of Power is possibly the most ambitious storytelling endeavor in series history as far as how its narrative unfolds. It's also a thrill ride, which is all I wanted and exactly what I got. Super also canonizes decades old fan theories in ways that very naturally tie into the overall fabric of Dragon Ball's world in satisfying ways. All in all, Dragon Ball, Z, and Super are all well worth experiencing.
So, here's what we "know" about the film;
It'll explore the history of the Saiyans and Freeza
Introduce a version of Broly to the main series.
Broly, without going blonde, will be able to push Goku (and most likely Vegeta) all the way to Blue.
Broly also grows terrifyingly fast as a fighter, even compared Goku and Vegeta.
Bardock and Gine may make an appearance, like from Dragon Ball Minus (not looking to see who hates and who doesn't, just listing it)
Possible tie-in with ancient Saiyans.
AnimeNation101 wrote:The whole Vegeta thing is whats known as a plot-hole. They’re everywhere in Dragon Ball.
Then how can Broly become a Super Saiyan? He's even worse than Vegeta. The S-Cell thing is in fact a retcon-induced plot-hole. How would Cell even have SS power, if he is not peaceful either? It was just unnecessary and probably added because Toriyama probably only thought about Goku. S-cells should really not have that specific of a requirement. The old one about needing a pure heart, good or evil was open-enough to fit any character. The form is the embodiment of rage and insanity. Beyond this its just a contradiction without headcanon.
Zephyr wrote:The fandom's collective fetishizing of "moments" is also ridiculous to me. No, not everyone needs a fucking "shine" moment. If that's all you want, then all you want is fanservice, rather than an actual coherent story. And of course those aren't mutually exclusive; you could have a coherent story with "shine" moments! But if a story is perfectly coherent (and I'm really not seeing any compelling arguments that this one is anything but, despite constantly recurring, really poorly reasoned, attempts to argue otherwise), and you're bemoaning the lack of "shine" moments as a reason for the story's poor quality, then you're letting your thirst for "shine" moments obfuscate your ability to detect basic storytelling when it's right in front of you.
AnimeNation101 wrote:The whole Vegeta thing is whats known as a plot-hole. They’re everywhere in Dragon Ball.
Then how can Broly become a Super Saiyan? He's even worse than Vegeta. The S-Cell thing is in fact a retcon-induced plot-hole. How would Cell even have SS power, if he is not peaceful either? It was just unnecessary and probably added because Toriyama probably only thought about Goku. S-cells should really not have that specific of a requirement. The old one about needing a pure heart, good or evil was open-enough to fit any character. The form is the embodiment of rage and insanity. Beyond this its just a contradiction without headcanon.
For Broly, that’s what we’re wondering. Thats why there are theories where people think Paragus genetically modified Broly by adding an abundance of S-Cells to him. Other theories is that he’s just a rare case. A mutant. Like how Freeza is to his race. Of course Cell has S-Cells or something similar because he has the cells of Goku, Vegeta, and Gohan.
I called it that Gogeta, Bardock, and something Broly related would be in the movie before it was even announced that it was a Broly movie.
"I don't think I'm a hero of justice or anythin'. But those who'd hurt my friends... I won't forgive!"
Jackalope89 wrote:So, here's what we "know" about the film;
It'll explore the history of the Saiyans and Freeza
Introduce a version of Broly to the main series.
Broly, without going blonde, will be able to push Goku (and most likely Vegeta) all the way to Blue.
Broly also grows terrifyingly fast as a fighter, even compared Goku and Vegeta.
Bardock and Gine may make an appearance, like from Dragon Ball Minus (not looking to see who hates and who doesn't, just listing it)
Possible tie-in with ancient Saiyans.
Missing anything?
The 2 themes that have been the most advertised for this movie. “The origins of the saiyans’ strength” and “what lies beyond strength”. Vegeta uses Super Saiyan God
I called it that Gogeta, Bardock, and something Broly related would be in the movie before it was even announced that it was a Broly movie.
"I don't think I'm a hero of justice or anythin'. But those who'd hurt my friends... I won't forgive!"
If Broly is a monster born with huge amount of S-Cells I see no reasons for him to not proliferate with other races and rule the universe with a army of powerful creatures
Power levels are not just big numbers:
Spoiler:
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
It’s not like anyone can become a Super Saiyan through training and anger. In order to become a Super Saiyan, one’s body must contain something called “S-Cells”.2 Once these S-Cells reach a certain amount, a trigger such as anger will explosively increase the S-Cells and cause a change in the body; that’s Super Saiyan. Most Saiyans have some S-Cells, although not a great quantity. The reason why Goku and Vegeta’s children can become Super Saiyan relatively easily is probably because to a certain extent they inherited a lot of S-Cells, and also because Earth’s environment is gentler and easier to live in than Planet Vegeta.
[Tori-bot] “Lately everyone becomes Super Saiyan so easily, but it is no simple matter.”
↓ And how does one increase S-Cells to become Super Saiyan?
Having a gentle spirit is the best way to greatly increase one’s S-Cells, but most Saiyans have trouble with this, which I think is why no Super Saiyans appeared for such a long time that they became the stuff of legend. However, one can’t reach the quantity necessary for becoming a Super Saiyan simply by having a gentle spirit, so a certain amount of battle power is indeed necessary. Looked at in this light, it’s easy to see why becoming a Super Saiyan came easy for Goku.
While having a gentle spirit may be the best way to increase s-cells hence the best, it's not the only way vegeta for example.
I still don't get what a gentle spirit really has to do with anything. I would have preferred something more general like them getting S-cells through fighting, or hell merge it with the Zenkai concept. It just makes Vegeta's desperation on Namek look even more pitiful if he was just wasting his time. It just wouln't explain how there would be an evil Legendary Saiyan in parallel that had SS power as well like Broly if others existed before him.
Zephyr wrote:The fandom's collective fetishizing of "moments" is also ridiculous to me. No, not everyone needs a fucking "shine" moment. If that's all you want, then all you want is fanservice, rather than an actual coherent story. And of course those aren't mutually exclusive; you could have a coherent story with "shine" moments! But if a story is perfectly coherent (and I'm really not seeing any compelling arguments that this one is anything but, despite constantly recurring, really poorly reasoned, attempts to argue otherwise), and you're bemoaning the lack of "shine" moments as a reason for the story's poor quality, then you're letting your thirst for "shine" moments obfuscate your ability to detect basic storytelling when it's right in front of you.
SingleFringe&Sparks wrote:I still don't get what a gentle spirit really has to do with anything. I would have preferred something more general like them getting S-cells through fighting, or hell merge it with the Zenkai concept. It just makes Vegeta's desperation on Namek look even more pitiful if he was just wasting his time. It just wouln't explain how there would be an evil Legendary Saiyan in parallel that had SS power as well like Broly if others existed before him.
Perhaps Broly is a manufactured Super Saiyan who had S-Cells artificially injected into him at birth? That equiptment in the trailer was fairly conspicuous.
"A more fascinating Broly" hmmm... That got me really interested on it, probably a response from Toriyama to fans who think Broly will only smash and scream "Kakarotto" the whole movie.
precita wrote:So is Freeza literally dumb enough to try and attack Earth again right after the TOP when he just saw Goku go Ultra Instinct and knows how powerful he is in general? And since we know Broly backfires on Freeza, are Goku/Vegeta just going to allow Freeza to escape to space again instead of finishing him off? Freeza is still evil so I don't know why they're letting him roam the universe again.
Uh, did you got the leaked movie or something? We don't any of that. I don't think Freeza is coming to Earth to attack a third time and yes to collect the Dragon Balls, then Goku and Vegeta come to stop him and meet Broly.
I'm guessing:
Frieza picks up Broly, rebuilding his army to include fighters with much higher potential
He tests Broly out and, while Broly isn't strong enough to beat him yet, he notes that more of Broly's power is brought out through fighting.
He calls up Goku and Vegeta, challenging them to take on Broly, hoping that their God-Like powers will make his new pet even stronger
He experiences a lot of regret.
When Super apparently shoves Goku down our throats:
Spoiler:
HeroR wrote:The characters in Super can work with Goku and they're treated like equals to him. Goku just being in the room doesn't take away from the character. In Z, the characters were so depended on Goku that they couldn't go an episode without mentioning him in some way even by hoping he will arrived, get better, training to get stronger, our last hope, being like him, ect. Goku was wanked to hell in Z, even when he wasn't in the room and everyone else was secondary to him. In fact, this was a major issue Goku had, which is why he didn't want to do anything in the Buu Saga.
Kanassa wrote:
FoolsGil wrote:I hope Mark is dead. But chances are the dragonballs will bring his stupid ass back.
AnimeNation101 wrote: First off, that’s still quite a flimsy story. If thats the case, it was never explained WHY Goku’s power awakened Broly’s instincts and made him go call coo-coo for Kakarot or even anyone that looked like him as shown in the second movie.
Yes, as far as I remember it wasn't explained, but at least it was said by Paragus, not like this crying theory that is floating through the internet.
Paragus never said that was the reason for sure. He wondered about the possibilities, because they were born on the same day and it could be fate.
No matter how you look at it, there's not a logical reason for Broly to hate Kakarrot and say his name constantly.
Mnich wrote:
AnimeNation101 wrote: And second off, clearly the motive of Broly trying to kill Goku because he awakened his instincts wasn’t explained well enough because of the fact that most people feel that the movie pushed the idea that Goku crying is the reason Broly hates him. So either way, its still a stupid reason to be crazy for Kakarot
The English dubbing may be the cause of this misinformation, as there are some changed dialogues, I think. Someone on this forums said that, I've never watched it with English dub, because the original is the best (to not insult anyone).
It's not only the english dub, because I watched the portuguese version when I was a kid and I rewatch it in japanese yesterday, and I still associate Goku's cry to Broly's obsession towards him. Always did.
Goku's cry being the reason that Broly hates him is not a theory, it's what the movie makes the audience think. If that's not the reason, blame the movie writer and director because that's what a lot of people took from the movie, regardless which version they saw.
It’s not like anyone can become a Super Saiyan through training and anger. In order to become a Super Saiyan, one’s body must contain something called “S-Cells”.2 Once these S-Cells reach a certain amount, a trigger such as anger will explosively increase the S-Cells and cause a change in the body; that’s Super Saiyan. Most Saiyans have some S-Cells, although not a great quantity. The reason why Goku and Vegeta’s children can become Super Saiyan relatively easily is probably because to a certain extent they inherited a lot of S-Cells, and also because Earth’s environment is gentler and easier to live in than Planet Vegeta.
[Tori-bot] “Lately everyone becomes Super Saiyan so easily, but it is no simple matter.”
↓ And how does one increase S-Cells to become Super Saiyan?
Having a gentle spirit is the best way to greatly increase one’s S-Cells, but most Saiyans have trouble with this, which I think is why no Super Saiyans appeared for such a long time that they became the stuff of legend. However, one can’t reach the quantity necessary for becoming a Super Saiyan simply by having a gentle spirit, so a certain amount of battle power is indeed necessary. Looked at in this light, it’s easy to see why becoming a Super Saiyan came easy for Goku.
While having a gentle spirit may be the best way to increase s-cells hence the best, it's not the only way vegeta for example.
Well Broly doesn’t have a “gentle spirit”. Certainly not from what little we’ve seen of him in the trailer and other promotional material. Yet he DOES possess a lot of S Cells (i assume so ofcourse) since Toriyama stated that that is the source of their strength. Than how can Broly be a Super Saiyan if one is requiered to possess a gentle heart for it? It’s a contradiction.
So my theory, like others have stated, is that they must have injected him with an overabundance of S Cells shortly after his birth.
It’s not like anyone can become a Super Saiyan through training and anger. In order to become a Super Saiyan, one’s body must contain something called “S-Cells”.2 Once these S-Cells reach a certain amount, a trigger such as anger will explosively increase the S-Cells and cause a change in the body; that’s Super Saiyan. Most Saiyans have some S-Cells, although not a great quantity. The reason why Goku and Vegeta’s children can become Super Saiyan relatively easily is probably because to a certain extent they inherited a lot of S-Cells, and also because Earth’s environment is gentler and easier to live in than Planet Vegeta.
[Tori-bot] “Lately everyone becomes Super Saiyan so easily, but it is no simple matter.”
↓ And how does one increase S-Cells to become Super Saiyan?
Having a gentle spirit is the best way to greatly increase one’s S-Cells, but most Saiyans have trouble with this, which I think is why no Super Saiyans appeared for such a long time that they became the stuff of legend. However, one can’t reach the quantity necessary for becoming a Super Saiyan simply by having a gentle spirit, so a certain amount of battle power is indeed necessary. Looked at in this light, it’s easy to see why becoming a Super Saiyan came easy for Goku.
While having a gentle spirit may be the best way to increase s-cells hence the best, it's not the only way vegeta for example.
Well Broly doesn’t have a “gentle spirit”. Certainly not from what little we’ve seen of him in the trailer and other promotional material. Yet he DOES possess a lot of S Cells (i assume so ofcourse) since Toriyama stated that that is the source of their strength. Than how can Broly be a Super Saiyan if one is requiered to possess a gentle heart for it? It’s a contradiction.
So my theory, like others have stated, is that they must have injected him with an overabundance of S Cells shortly after his birth.
Nah you don't need to possess a gentle spirit, but if you do have a gentle spirit it will increase the S Cells, that's just one easy way to increase the S Cells. And Saiyans from U7 had trouble transforming because they were very savage. Some saiyans do have a lot of S Cell from birth like Goten and Trunks so maybe Broly also has a lot of S Cells from birth who knows.
SingleFringe&Sparks wrote:I still don't get what a gentle spirit really has to do with anything. I would have preferred something more general like them getting S-cells through fighting, or hell merge it with the Zenkai concept. It just makes Vegeta's desperation on Namek look even more pitiful if he was just wasting his time. It just wouln't explain how there would be an evil Legendary Saiyan in parallel that had SS power as well like Broly if others existed before him.
Perhaps Broly is a manufactured Super Saiyan who had S-Cells artificially injected into him at birth? That equiptment in the trailer was fairly conspicuous.
The shot in the trailer when Vegeta is fighting him, Vegeta states: 'Dammit, how is this possible, he improves while he fights'. It's almost like Broly has been 'programmed' en 'enhanced' to improve massively in a short period of time without additional training.
SingleFringe&Sparks wrote:I still don't get what a gentle spirit really has to do with anything. I would have preferred something more general like them getting S-cells through fighting, or hell merge it with the Zenkai concept. It just makes Vegeta's desperation on Namek look even more pitiful if he was just wasting his time. It just wouln't explain how there would be an evil Legendary Saiyan in parallel that had SS power as well like Broly if others existed before him.
Perhaps Broly is a manufactured Super Saiyan who had S-Cells artificially injected into him at birth? That equiptment in the trailer was fairly conspicuous.
The shot in the trailer when Vegeta is fighting him, Vegeta states: 'Dammit, how is this possible, he improves while he fights'. It's almost like Broly has been 'programmed' en 'enhanced' to improve massively in a short period of time without additional training.
I was thinking more of the scene of the Saiyan child with the thing covering its lower quarters. Maybe it was being experimented upon in that tube? Who knows?
JazzMazz wrote:
I was thinking more of the scene of the Saiyan child with the thing covering its lower quarters. Maybe it was being experimented upon in that tube? Who knows?
Guys, it's just a poop chute. The babies are in incubation chambers. It's the technological equivalent of an umbilical cord. It's there to exchange nutrients and waste in place of a biological parent.
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JazzMazz wrote:
I was thinking more of the scene of the Saiyan child with the thing covering its lower quarters. Maybe it was being experimented upon in that tube? Who knows?
Guys, it's just a poop chute. The babies are in incubation chambers. It's the technological equivalent of an umbilical cord. It's there to exchange nutrients and waste in place of a biological parent.
Then why didn't the other Saiyan infant in the distance have one?
JazzMazz wrote:
Then why didn't the other Saiyan infant in the distance have one?
It does have one, but since it's not the focus of the shot as it's in the background, your eyes aren't drawn to it. Broly 2018 Trailer
At 1:08 in the trailer, you can see that the baby in the back does have a tube going down and the infant in the foreground has what almost seems like a body brace. At 1:25 we get a closeup shot of the saiyan baby in the chamber, and is without that support piece on its back now. Which can indicate that its grown enough to no longer need the support.
Such was true for Baby Pan as Chichi was worried about Gohan and Hercule bouncing her around so much, but Gohan makes it known that it's a non-issue because of Pan's Saiyan biology and that she has a much stronger spine than a normal baby would have. So it may be that Saiyan babies may only need this bracing equipment while in those chambers until they reach a certain growth point before they fall off and/or are removed.
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[/spoiler]
