Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #1 Thread: "Broly"

[Zelvin]

That doesn't make it any less canon. Overreactive fans can foam at the mouth all they want, but it doesn't change anything.

What you didn't notice is that many writers quickly dismissed using the term and it was never brought up again in any of the later movies nor any of the TV animated series. Because they knew fans hated the term and the idea behind it and they cleverly decided to avoid mentioning it whenever possible.

Also, the whole thing about S-cells isn't in the actual canon. It's something Toriyama said, but has not been implemented. And it's more than likely that it's just a red herring.

[AnimeNation101]

Tell that to Toriyama.

Toriyama forgot Launch even existed. And I don't think Chouzu has mad an appearance yet in Super. You really wanna test his memory of events?

And thats where you’re wrong. The Tuffle episode from the anime was written straight from the pen of Toriyama so it is “canon”. Freeza weak surveillance. The only surveillance we’ve seen Freeza use were his force and the scouters that he could listen through to here the saiyans conversations and that they can track saiyan pods. Paragus could easily gather tech that he already had when the saiyans beat the Tuffles and gather tech that the Freeza Force has supplied, and head to an unknown location like Dr. Gero did to make a lab and do experiments. Its not that hard. Going off the grid is as simple as destroying your scouter. And no where has anything been said that Freeza has other ways of tracking the saiyans besides saiyan pods, scouters. Toriyama has already been shown to be tanking stuff from other Broly movies. He loves sci-fi so he probably could have taken the some bio-broly points and put it into his own movie. And the fact that he brought up S-Cells randomly in an interview and the fact that the movie is about the origins of the saiyans’ strength, that means that someone would have to bring up S-Cells. And who better than a saiyan scientist himself. And the whole idea is better than the lazy “he’s a mutant” or “he’s a prodigy” plot line.

Face it. There is so much evidence pointing towards what clearly many of us believe is a cool and way more interesting theory.

Nnno. There's literally no evidence of your theory. You theorize that Paragus is a scientist, of which he's never shown to be before, not even in the original movie when he had an actual alien scientist who was responsible for Broly's control device. There is no scene of Paragus in the same room as the baby incubators. There's no evidence that the incubators are part of any experiment or attached machinery that'd be responsible for genetic engineering. There is nothing in the trailer that points to any of this at all.

Everything you say can only happen if everyone else besides Paragus is a complete idiot and utterly incompetent. You assume that everyone has the intelligence of Appule. You try to make it seem like Paragus is a super genius who can gather tech, build a lab, get test subjects, and know what S-cells are and what he can do with them, and have all this done under the nose of King Vegeta, Freeza, King Cold (because he's alive too), the entirety of the Saiyan Race and all of Freeza's other forces. Which also includes intelligence members, like Sorbet, who're more adept at information gathering than fighting.

This line of thinking hurts the story and the characters more than anything else. And the fact that nothing in the information we're given even suggest things only makes the theory that much more implausible.

Also, everyone hates midichlorians. The entire concept disregards all other explanations of the Force, as spoken of by Obi-Wan and many others, and brings it down to nothing more than bacteria that gives you super powers. The fans hated it and all the EU books that focused on and used the term were all found to be rather terrible.

The whole idea of S-cells itself flies in the face of everything else we know about becoming a Super Saiyan. Such as Goku explaining how it "comes from a need, not a desire". And it doesn't explain how Gohan could do it when, by all accounts, he should have Half the s-cells Goku had. The same with Goten and Trunks. Yet they could all do it easily. Does that mean humans have S-cells? Of course not. Cause that's dumb.

And really, you all want to say that being born with such an advantage is less likely? Tell that to Pan.
The flying baby

1. I can’t discuss with people like you who seem to have not even read by previous posts. I literally posted evidence in my reply.

2. AS I CLEARLY EXPLAINED BEFORE, from what has been shown of Freeza and his Force, he has weak surveillance when it comes to what goes on on Planet Vegeta. It doesn’t matter how smart someone is. If they dont’t know that Paragus is doing something, they won’t be suspicious and therefore won’t take any action. Its as simply as doing stuff on a black market in real life. You think the President knows about everything being done in secret? Its just like that for the saiyans. King Vegeta and even Freeza don’t know every little thing thats going on with every single saiyan. Hell, Freeza is the emperor of more than just one race of species. Don’t even get me started on King Cold who watches over an even BIGGER empire. Paragus, if he’s secretive enough, can, just like Dr. Gero AS I LITERALLY EXPLAINED BEFORE, sneak away to a secluded place on Planet Vegeta, destroy his scouter, use the tech from the Tuffles and the tech the Freeza Force supplied, and do what he needs to do. And no matter how smart anyone was, if they aren’t watching him 24/7 and they can’t track him anymore, he can get away with secret experiments easily. And thats assuming they watch every single saiyan 24/7 everyday which is a stupid assumption considering how many other races they have to look over. And if Tuffles and humans are smart enough to make stuff like Cell, Hatchiyak, Baby, etc, it makes no sense that a saiyan couldn’t do the same.

3. Who cares if the Star Wars fandom hates them. We’re talking about Dragon Ball. And even if EVERYONE in the db fandom hated the idea of S-Cells, what are you gonna do? They finished writing the scenario of the movie long before Toriyama mentioned the S-Cells in an interview. So if he did come up with them for the movie, no matter what the fans thought of the concept, it would already be in the movie’s story.

4. Another case where you didn’t read my reply. I NEVER said that being born with such an advantage is less likely. But because you brought up Pan, she’s a horrible example for trying to prove your point. Because its common knowledge that of course she would be born with such power. She’s a hybrid. So she’s not really a prodigy at all. Among her own race, which are human-saiyan hybrids, she’s a normal case. She’s what you would expect.

5. And again, I NEVER said that being born with such an advantage is less likely. I said that the whole idea of having just be an extremely rare mutant or be a prodigy is LAZY. And its lazy because 99 percent of the time, they use it as an excuse to not have to explain why someone is so powerful.

[AnimeNation101]

Also, everyone hates midichlorians.

That doesn't make it any less canon. Overreactive fans can foam at the mouth all they want, but it doesn't change anything.

My point exactly

That doesn't make it any less canon. Overreactive fans can foam at the mouth all they want, but it doesn't change anything.

What you didn't notice is that many writers quickly dismissed using the term and it was never brought up again in any of the later movies nor any of the TV animated series. Because they knew fans hated the term and the idea behind it and they cleverly decided to avoid mentioning it whenever possible.

Also, the whole thing about S-cells isn't in the actual canon. It's something Toriyama said, but has not been implemented. And it's more than likely that it's just a red herring.

And here you are saying that something the creator of a series said isn’t canon (which is bullshit) only because you don’t want it to be. You’re assuming its a red herring because you don’t want it to be canon. The creator is basically the God of his own series. If he says that something is in his own series, fans best be taking his words as god’s word when it comes to HIS OWN series.

It doesn’t have to be mentioned in-universe to be canon.

[Nickolaidas]

Also, everyone hates midichlorians.

That doesn't make it any less canon. Overreactive fans can foam at the mouth all they want, but it doesn't change anything.

My point exactly

That doesn't make it any less canon. Overreactive fans can foam at the mouth all they want, but it doesn't change anything.

What you didn't notice is that many writers quickly dismissed using the term and it was never brought up again in any of the later movies nor any of the TV animated series. Because they knew fans hated the term and the idea behind it and they cleverly decided to avoid mentioning it whenever possible.

Also, the whole thing about S-cells isn't in the actual canon. It's something Toriyama said, but has not been implemented. And it's more than likely that it's just a red herring.

And here you are saying that something the creator of a series said isn’t canon (which is bullshit) only because you don’t want it to be. You’re assuming its a red herring because you don’t want it to be canon. The creator is basically the God of his own series. If he says that something is in his own series, fans best be taking his words as god’s word when it comes to HIS OWN series.

It doesn’t have to be mentioned in-universe to be canon.

You make good points, but that doesn't change the fact that Toriyama is horrible at handling, maintaining or even remembering his own story's lore. So him saying something about his universe is hardly 100% evidence when it's likely he'll forget about it after a year or two. I mean seriously, the guy couldn't even bother to name some of his characters. The fact that Bulma's mother and Krillin's daughter got their names months or years after their introduction is flat-out mind boggling.

[AnimeNation101]

That doesn't make it any less canon. Overreactive fans can foam at the mouth all they want, but it doesn't change anything.

My point exactly

What you didn't notice is that many writers quickly dismissed using the term and it was never brought up again in any of the later movies nor any of the TV animated series. Because they knew fans hated the term and the idea behind it and they cleverly decided to avoid mentioning it whenever possible.

Also, the whole thing about S-cells isn't in the actual canon. It's something Toriyama said, but has not been implemented. And it's more than likely that it's just a red herring.

And here you are saying that something the creator of a series said isn’t canon (which is bullshit) only because you don’t want it to be. You’re assuming its a red herring because you don’t want it to be canon. The creator is basically the God of his own series. If he says that something is in his own series, fans best be taking his words as god’s word when it comes to HIS OWN series.

It doesn’t have to be mentioned in-universe to be canon.

You make good points, but that doesn't change the fact that Toriyama is horrible at handling, maintaining or even remembering his own story's lore. So him saying something about his universe is hardly 100% evidence when it's likely he'll forget about it after a year or two. I mean seriously, the guy couldn't even bother to name some of his characters. The fact that Bulma's mother and Krillin's daughter got their names months or years after their introduction is flat-out mind boggling.

That doesn’t downplay the importance of Toriyama’s words though. It just means Toriyama is retconning his previously established word. So if Toriyama says something, until it’s retconned or contradicted by something he says later on, what he said before is what is canon.

[Nickolaidas]

I understand - I'm just saying that the 'Word of God' means little when God doesn't remember what He said last week.

[Zelvin]

That doesn’t downplay the importance of Toriyama’s words though. It just means Toriyama is retconning his previously established word. So if Toriyama says something, until it’s retconned or contradicted by something he says later on, what he said before is what is canon.

That's not how it works. Until what Toriyama says manifests itself in the actual work or becomes part of an official book/guide, then it's nothing more than tossing ideas at people to get their reactions. You pretend that Toriyama can't be contradicted or corrected. But you forget that he has been contradicted and corrected in his works. By his Editors.

The story and screenplay is made by Toriyama. That doesn't mean that screenplay and story hasn't gone through multiple rewrites as the Editors and Directors go over it and point out to him things that won't work. Which is done to keep Toriyama from going off the rails.

[ZeroNeonix]

I understand - I'm just saying that the 'Word of God' means little when God doesn't remember what He said last week.

Ironic that you would compare Toriyama's work to the Bible...



"Word of God" ain't all it's cracked up to be. lol. But still, Toriyama is the author. His say goes, even if he contradicts himself.

[Ssjcell]

Gotta admit the s cells thing makes sense if the stronger the father or mother is the more s cells the child will have easing the process of becoming a super Saiyan the more s cells that are passed on. Gohan had less than goten and pan for example.

[Zelvin]

Gotta admit the s cells thing makes sense if the stronger the father or mother is the more s cells the child will have easing the process of becoming a super Saiyan the more s cells that are passed on. Gohan had less than goten and pan for example.

You see, that doesn't work. Because you can't explain how S-cells are supposed to propagate. Gohan is a half-saiyan, so by all accounts, should have less than Goku, but was capable of going SSJ at a much younger age. Goten, in the same boat, went SSJ by accident at the age of 6. And by all accounts, Bardock is a low-ranking warrior, so his S-cells would be measured to be quite low, and Gine was bottom of the barrel. Given that logic, Goku should never have been capable of going Super Saiyan.

And yet he was. Which means the "concentration" of S-cells as a factor is irrelevant to achieving the SSJ form. You can make the claim that S-cells become more concentrated as a Saiyan gets stronger. But if that's the case, then, once again, their concentration from parentage doesn't matter and the form becomes available to any and every Saiyan, so long as they reach a certain strength level. Which makes the entire introduction of the concept utterly pointless.

[Nickolaidas]

I understand - I'm just saying that the 'Word of God' means little when God doesn't remember what He said last week.

Ironic that you would compare Toriyama's work to the Bible...



"Word of God" ain't all it's cracked up to be. lol. But still, Toriyama is the author. His say goes, even if he contradicts himself.

Hah! Ain't that the truth! But seriously, I'm just using a trope. Not trying to pull anything religious per se.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

I'm so hyped for this movie! Does anyone know if there's been any news for an international release apart from the US? Europe? UK? Anything? I'm desperate to see this in theaters, but can't travel all the way to the States from Eastern Europe sadly!

Toei Europe told me to patient as they're working with distributors to distribute it across Europe. I predict we will probably get it around Spring time. Toei Europe are lame and just don't have their shit together like Toei USA, their website is still down and has been for like a year now it seems. If they can't fix their website really doubt they can get the film out in January.

[Jackalope89]

Gotta admit the s cells thing makes sense if the stronger the father or mother is the more s cells the child will have easing the process of becoming a super Saiyan the more s cells that are passed on. Gohan had less than goten and pan for example.

You see, that doesn't work. Because you can't explain how S-cells are supposed to propagate. Gohan is a half-saiyan, so by all accounts, should have less than Goku, but was capable of going SSJ at a much younger age. Goten, in the same boat, went SSJ by accident at the age of 6. And by all accounts, Bardock is a low-ranking warrior, so his S-cells would be measured to be quite low, and Gine was bottom of the barrel. Given that logic, Goku should never have been capable of going Super Saiyan.

And yet he was. Which means the "concentration" of S-cells as a factor is irrelevant to achieving the SSJ form. You can make the claim that S-cells become more concentrated as a Saiyan gets stronger. But if that's the case, then, once again, their concentration from parentage doesn't matter and the form becomes available to any and every Saiyan, so long as they reach a certain strength level. Which makes the entire introduction of the concept utterly pointless.

Well, I've been wondering about the whole "half-Saiyan" thing.

Yeah, Chichi is human, and Gohan and Goten's mother. But, what if Saiyan genes work differently than anything on Earth?
For instance, so long as said being has Saiyan genes, they are a Saiyan?

It would explain, for example in GT (don't get started on the whole "not-cannon" thing), it would explain why Goku Jr and Vegeta Jr can both turn Super Saiyan despite not even being an 1/8 Saiyan. Going by Earth standards.

[AnimeNation101]

That doesn’t downplay the importance of Toriyama’s words though. It just means Toriyama is retconning his previously established word. So if Toriyama says something, until it’s retconned or contradicted by something he says later on, what he said before is what is canon.

That's not how it works. Until what Toriyama says manifests itself in the actual work or becomes part of an official book/guide, then it's nothing more than tossing ideas at people to get their reactions. You pretend that Toriyama can't be contradicted or corrected. But you forget that he has been contradicted and corrected in his works. By his Editors.

The story and screenplay is made by Toriyama. That doesn't mean that screenplay and story hasn't gone through multiple rewrites as the Editors and Directors go over it and point out to him things that won't work. Which is done to keep Toriyama from going off the rails.

At the time he’s been contradicted by editors was at the time he wasn’t the boss of his own story. He had to get his ideas checked. Now he’s the top boss of his own story and can add whatever lore bits he wants. Sure, people still go over what he writes and edits it a bit to fit something like a tv series or movie, but for stuff like writing manga like DBMinus, no one could change or edit it. It was only Toriyama’s thing. And as we all know, its canon. Its the same with how he’s speaking. He doesn’t;t have to create a whole story just to add lore bits and editors and such can’t check or change what he’s saying because he isn’t making a story. He’s outright tell people how certain things work in his own story.

So in the context of S-Cells, they’re canon until retconned.

[AnimeNation101]

Gotta admit the s cells thing makes sense if the stronger the father or mother is the more s cells the child will have easing the process of becoming a super Saiyan the more s cells that are passed on. Gohan had less than goten and pan for example.

You see, that doesn't work. Because you can't explain how S-cells are supposed to propagate. Gohan is a half-saiyan, so by all accounts, should have less than Goku, but was capable of going SSJ at a much younger age. Goten, in the same boat, went SSJ by accident at the age of 6. And by all accounts, Bardock is a low-ranking warrior, so his S-cells would be measured to be quite low, and Gine was bottom of the barrel. Given that logic, Goku should never have been capable of going Super Saiyan.

And yet he was. Which means the "concentration" of S-cells as a factor is irrelevant to achieving the SSJ form. You can make the claim that S-cells become more concentrated as a Saiyan gets stronger. But if that's the case, then, once again, their concentration from parentage doesn't matter and the form becomes available to any and every Saiyan, so long as they reach a certain strength level. Which makes the entire introduction of the concept utterly pointless.

No. Reading up on the interview tells you that only having a gentle spirit can increase your S-Cell number. So even if Bardock didn’t have that many S-Cells (but it can be assumed Gine did have more than the averge saiyan due to her gentle nature), Goku built up S-Cells due to his gentle nature. So by the time Gohan was born, he inherited many S-Cells from his father and due to his already gentle nature plus the S-Cells from his father, he got SSJ quicker. And the same thing with Goten.

[jeffbr92]

And here you are saying that something the creator of a series said isn’t canon (which is bullshit) only because you don’t want it to be. You’re assuming its a red herring because you don’t want it to be canon. The creator is basically the God of his own series. If he says that something is in his own series, fans best be taking his words as god’s word when it comes to HIS OWN series.

It doesn’t have to be mentioned in-universe to be canon.

As much as I agree with this thought, people could simply stick with the original manga and ignore the rest, unfortunately we can't force people to accept anything new Toriyama adds to the series.

[AnimeNation101]

And here you are saying that something the creator of a series said isn’t canon (which is bullshit) only because you don’t want it to be. You’re assuming its a red herring because you don’t want it to be canon. The creator is basically the God of his own series. If he says that something is in his own series, fans best be taking his words as god’s word when it comes to HIS OWN series.

It doesn’t have to be mentioned in-universe to be canon.

As much as I agree with this thought, people could simply stick with the original manga and ignore the rest, unfortunately we can't force people to accept anything new Toriyama adds to the series.

I'm ok if someone wants to ignore something, but the moment they start saying that something that clearly matters to the story doesn’t because they don’t like it, theres the problem.

[Mister_Popo]

I'm so hyped for this movie! Does anyone know if there's been any news for an international release apart from the US? Europe? UK? Anything? I'm desperate to see this in theaters, but can't travel all the way to the States from Eastern Europe sadly!

Toei Europe told me to patient as they're working with distributors to distribute it across Europe. I predict we will probably get it around Spring time. Toei Europe are lame and just don't have their shit together like Toei USA, their website is still down and has been for like a year now it seems. If they can't fix their website really doubt they can get the film out in January.

The last two movies weren't even distributed here in Belgium (nor the Netherlands).
Can you believe that ... we are such a small country that can beat Brazil, Japan and England in the World Cup, but we cannot have Dragon Ball.

Yes, i am prepared to take a ticket to London to see this movie. But it's kinda absurd to travel so many miles for it while it so popular worldwide and it can be seen almost everywhere in Western Europe.
Nobody knows who Goku or Vegeta is. But when i show the new trailer for the movie, almost everybody thinks it looks cool, also non-fantasy fans.
When it's not marketed here, of course it can not gain any commercial success or popularity.

It's in a sense weird, given the fact all the Marvel and DC-movies and Star Wars are immensely popular. DB would be hype too. There is one problem. They don't find a distributor to market it.
At least they didn't for the last two movies. I hope this will change know, because the intention is to make it one of the best selling anime movies worldwide (or at least DB-movie) ever.

[PFM18]

This movie could explain why U7 Saiyans are generally so hillariously, unbelievably weak compared to their U6 counterparts. Being that Nappa was like a normal Saiyan from Universe 7 and the Universe 6 Saiyans we see now dwarf the power of the Buu Arc Saiyans. What if the Universe 7 Saiyans of old/ancient ones were massively stronger but something happened that made the following generations weaker? Maybe the original Saiyans were absurdly strong for some reason but their blood was diluted through the generations and we have the weaker normal Saiyans we have now? Just random speculation here

[Ki Breaker]

This movie could explain why U7 Saiyans are generally so hillariously, unbelievably weak compared to their U6 counterparts.

Super already did, U6 is more evolved..