Is it possible for someone without God Ki to sense it?

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Is it possible for someone without God Ki to sense it?

Postby BWri » Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:18 pm

In light of episode 123 and the statements of Piccolo regarding Vegeta's transformation, is it finally possible that characters can sense god ki even if they don't have it? We've had hints of this before, but now its blatant. And do you guys and gals think Jiren has god ki or is he like Frieza, a mortal anamoly who's reached the level of the gods with normal ki? I'm interested in hearing your thoughts on god ki, in general.
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Re: Is it possible for someone without God Ki to sense it?

Postby TheSaiyanGod » Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:32 pm

Well, I would try to explain that Piccolo did not actually feel the God Ki, but he was able to realize through the pressure that the SSB Ki emanates (as noted by Kuririn, Trunks, and the gods before) that Vegeta's transformation was somewhat differentiated (after all, Piccolo is familiar with the SSB).

The problem is that shortly afterwards he says '' this boundless energy is ... '', which implied that he actually felt Vegeta's Ki increasing absurdly (just as Goku said Kefla's Ki did not seem to have limits on EP 114).

So I would say that it is necessary to at least have proper training to be able to feel the God Ki.
Vegeta trained for 6 months with Whis, and although he apparently did not get the divine ki (after all, afterwards he seems surprised by the feel of that Ki), he was able to feel it.

So it seemed very strange that Hitto was able to do this in the Champa tournament, since Hitto himself basically did his job, but he not train and long ago was not pushed to the limit (that's why the battle with Goku made him evolve) .
Some people also say that Trunks and Freza felt the Ki of the SSB, but this is a matter of interpretation and it was not clear if they really were capable of this.

But in the case of Piccolo, it seems he felt, which is strange.
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Re: Is it possible for someone without God Ki to sense it?

Postby ToshioWrites » Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:33 pm

BWri wrote:In light of episode 123 and the statements of Piccolo regarding Vegeta's transformation, is it finally possible that characters can sense god ki even if they don't have it? We've had hints of this before, but now its blatant. And do you guys and gals think Jiren has god ki or is he like Frieza, a mortal anamoly who's reached the level of the gods with normal ki? I'm interested in hearing your thoughts on god ki, in general.



Absolutely.

Golden Freeza sensed SSB Goku energy and stated that he ( Freeza) was stronger

Hit could tell Kaioken was multiplying SSB

Trunks sensed SSB Vegito energy

My personal headcanon before this arc where Piccolo can sense it apparently was that once you reach a certain level of power you can read god ki even if you don't have it yourself

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Re: Is it possible for someone without God Ki to sense it?

Postby BWri » Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:38 pm

ToshioWrites wrote:
BWri wrote:In light of episode 123 and the statements of Piccolo regarding Vegeta's transformation, is it finally possible that characters can sense god ki even if they don't have it? We've had hints of this before, but now its blatant. And do you guys and gals think Jiren has god ki or is he like Frieza, a mortal anamoly who's reached the level of the gods with normal ki? I'm interested in hearing your thoughts on god ki, in general.



Absolutely.

Golden Freeza sensed SSB Goku energy and stated that he ( Freeza) was stronger

Hit could tell Kaioken was multiplying SSB

Trunks sensed SSB Vegito energy

My personal headcanon before this arc where Piccolo can sense it apparently was that once you reach a certain level of power you can read god ki even if you don't have it yourself

Yup :-). Those are the hints I was thinking of. Then there was also when Vegeta was following Goku and Beerus' fight. Your headcanon makes a lot of sense. I hope its the case. It would mean my favorite character might be reaching the godly realm pretty soon :clap:
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Re: Is it possible for someone without God Ki to sense it?

Postby ToshioWrites » Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:41 pm

To answer your 2nd question. I do think Jiren has god ki. his aura is the same as toppo when he powered up in 82 and we know toppo is the next GoD and has God ki not to mention belmod seems to know a lot about jiren which can hint at him training him. Also my guess is that jiren is freak prodigy ala freeza who surpassed his own GoD very quickly.

Also god ki isn't any better than normal ki. We've seen normal ki users like Freeza, Hit and Kefla beat the tar out of SSB. Even Trunks in the anime was fighting a bunch of god ki users without it

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Re: Is it possible for someone without God Ki to sense it?

Postby TheSaiyanGod » Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:27 pm

ToshioWrites wrote:
Absolutely.

Golden Freeza sensed SSB Goku energy and stated that he ( Freeza) was stronger

Hit could tell Kaioken was multiplying SSB

Trunks sensed SSB Vegito energy

My personal headcanon before this arc where Piccolo can sense it apparently was that once you reach a certain level of power you can read god ki even if you don't have it yourself


Freeza said he thought he would win according to the energy he was feeling, but that was not specific (if this was referring to the power of Frieza himself or to Goku's power). If he was referring to Goku's power, then Goku should also imagine that Frieza was stronger, but he just said it was going to be a fierce battle.

About Trunks, he just saw Vegetto releasing a large amount of Ki, and said that this was an extraordinary energy. But that does not mean he felt (not to mention that the SSB emits a lot of pressure, in Vegetto's case this pressure should be even higher).

I would say that only Hitto really felt the Ki of Goku SSB

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Re: Is it possible for someone without God Ki to sense it?

Postby BWri » Thu Jan 18, 2018 9:22 pm

TheSaiyanGod wrote:Well, I would try to explain that Piccolo did not actually feel the God Ki, but he was able to realize through the pressure that the SSB Ki emanates (as noted by Kuririn, Trunks, and the gods before) that Vegeta's transformation was somewhat differentiated (after all, Piccolo is familiar with the SSB).

I followed that logic before, but Piccolo's statement was fairly specific this time around. When talking about pressure, there's the connotation that it's a vague force that cannot be properly measured by someone uninitiated with the use of god ki. But when you can measure the size of the pressure and compare it to other pressures, then I daresay that you can read it and sense it.

The problem is that shortly afterwards he says '' this boundless energy is ... '', which implied that he actually felt Vegeta's Ki increasing absurdly (just as Goku said Kefla's Ki did not seem to have limits on EP 114).

I usually just look at this as hype. To me it simply means that this character has a power that is currently rising and seems to have no sign of slowing down. Of course there'd be a ceiling on it, but the characters currently can't tell what that ceiling would be.

So I would say that it is necessary to at least have proper training to be able to feel the God Ki.
Vegeta trained for 6 months with Whis, and although he apparently did not get the divine ki (after all, afterwards he seems surprised by the feel of that Ki), he was able to feel it.

I'm thinking that because most of the Z fighters have been exposed to god ki so often, that they can more or less read it. At first there's that vague pressure but then they can feel the intricacies of it over time. In Trunks' case (and Vegeta's) in can be said that they learned to read god ki faster by directly fighting against someone who had it. This is just assuming that this isn't simply poor writing by the staff.

So it seemed very strange that Hitto was able to do this in the Champa tournament, since Hitto himself basically did his job, but he not train and long ago was not pushed to the limit (that's why the battle with Goku made him evolve) .
Some people also say that Trunks and Freza felt the Ki of the SSB, but this is a matter of interpretation and it was not clear if they really were capable of this.

I'm confident Trunks did and I believe Frieza did have a statement or two about the power of SSB Goku, so the assumption of him being able to read it aren't far fetched.

But in the case of Piccolo, it seems he felt, which is strange.

Well, I initially thought so too and considered it poor writing, but I don't currently think so. I think he's been exposed to it enough and his power is approaching or has surpassed the level of BoG Vegeta. With those two things considered, I think he's near that realm of power needed to enter the realm of the gods, but as a Piccolo fan, I might be looking too far into it :think:
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Re: Is it possible for someone without God Ki to sense it?

Postby BWri » Thu Jan 18, 2018 9:28 pm

ToshioWrites wrote:To answer your 2nd question. I do think Jiren has god ki. his aura is the same as toppo when he powered up in 82 and we know toppo is the next GoD and has God ki not to mention belmod seems to know a lot about jiren which can hint at him training him. Also my guess is that jiren is freak prodigy ala freeza who surpassed his own GoD very quickly.

I hope that's the case. It would be a satisfying reason for why Jiren is so strong. I mean, if Frieza was ever trained by Whis, I'm sure his power would be very similar to Jiren's.

Also god ki isn't any better than normal ki. We've seen normal ki users like Freeza, Hit and Kefla beat the tar out of SSB. Even Trunks in the anime was fighting a bunch of god ki users without it

Yeah, that's clear when you consider that the likes of Shin has it. I thought there was more to it, but oh well.
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Re: Is it possible for someone without God Ki to sense it?

Postby Kanious » Thu Jan 18, 2018 9:47 pm

Freeza knew Beerus for a long time. Also, on his comeback for ToP, he knew that the energy he was locked in was "hakai energy".

Trunks trained with Vegeta Blue, and fought Goku Black for at least a year, maybe that's the reason why he could feel Vegeto's energy.

Many characters may be familiar to god ki, as even Supreme Kai has it.

Also there is the "pressure" thing. All we can do for now is guess based on information given in the anime and manga, and make our own headcanons.

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Re: Is it possible for someone without God Ki to sense it?

Postby BWri » Fri Jan 19, 2018 3:36 am

Kanious wrote:Freeza knew Beerus for a long time. Also, on his comeback for ToP, he knew that the energy he was locked in was "hakai energy".

Frieza's a very strange case, because he couldn't even read mortal ki until some time between his first death and second invasion of Earth. Perhaps when he learned to sense ki, his exposure to Beerus' god ki allowed him to sense it as well. Doesn't make a lot of sense, but it is the only explanation I have.

Trunks trained with Vegeta Blue, and fought Goku Black for at least a year, maybe that's the reason why he could feel Vegeto's energy.

That's what I thought as well. Trunks didn't train with Vegeta very long, but if we take Vegeta in BoG as an example, it appears that those who've directly encountered god ki can later sense it. Perhaps a power level threshold must be met too, or maybe not.

Many characters may be familiar to god ki, as even Supreme Kai has it.

Yeah, back in Z I thought Piccolo could directly sense it but other factors may have led him to know who Shin was, such as Kami's memories of the godly hierarchy.

Also there is the "pressure" thing. All we can do for now is guess based on information given in the anime and manga, and make our own headcanons.

I guess feeling the pressure is the first step in being able to sense god ki. Now half the cast are making statements measuring this godly power and if they can measure it, they can properly sense it or are close to properly sensing it.
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Re: Is it possible for someone without God Ki to sense it?

Postby Doctor. » Fri Jan 19, 2018 4:19 am

The Oracle Fish can sense it, does he have God Ki? So could Vegeta before he achieved SSB. It just seems like a skill you can learn rather than anything else.

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Re: Is it possible for someone without God Ki to sense it?

Postby BWri » Fri Jan 19, 2018 12:05 pm

Doctor. wrote:The Oracle Fish can sense it, does he have God Ki? So could Vegeta before he achieved SSB. It just seems like a skill you can learn rather than anything else.

That's what I'm thinking as well. Playing devil's advocate, perhaps the Oracle fish was born a god though. Maybe its a different process for those born divine and those born mortal.
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Re: Is it possible for someone without God Ki to sense it?

Postby Eternal Super Saiyan » Fri Jan 19, 2018 4:12 pm

Not in the same manner of sensing as we had early in DBZ (like the actual ki size or comparing between two ki signals), but more like a general "feeling" - then yes. It's been hinted a few times in DB Super. It's more vague than it is specific.
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Re: Is it possible for someone without God Ki to sense it?

Postby Whatever » Fri Jan 19, 2018 9:37 pm

It seems if you are skilled enough or reach a certain level of power you can sense it.After all Freeza did in rof.
Maybe Piccolo picked it up just like how Freeza saga Vegeta randomly learnt how to sense normal ki after his fight on earth.
Also considering how much of Vegeta fanboy Piccolo is,maybe he learnt it so he could compliment Vegeta's actions better.

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Re: Is it possible for someone without God Ki to sense it?

Postby BWri » Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:16 pm

Whatever wrote:It seems if you are skilled enough or reach a certain level of power you can sense it.After all Freeza did in rof.
Maybe Piccolo picked it up just like how Freeza saga Vegeta randomly learnt how to sense normal ki after his fight on earth.
Also considering how much of Vegeta fanboy Piccolo is,maybe he learnt it so he could compliment Vegeta's actions better.

Why'd you have to go there? :lol: Now I'll be seeing images of Piccolo cosplaying Vegeta in my head, thank you! Interesting point though. That's kinda my take on it as well, like if you're around it enough that you gain the aptitude to feel it, then can get more proficient with that. It helps that the Z fighters are expert ki readers, with Piccolo, Krillin, and Roshi being among the best of them.

Eternal Super Saiyan wrote:Not in the same manner of sensing as we had early in DBZ (like the actual ki size or comparing between two ki signals), but more like a general "feeling" - then yes. It's been hinted a few times in DB Super. It's more vague than it is specific.

It seems like a few of the mortal characters are specifically sensing the size of the ki though. Piccolo in particular mentions it and even senses that Vegeta's ki is growing.
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Re: Is it possible for someone without God Ki to sense it?

Postby Jexulus » Sat Jan 20, 2018 1:38 pm

Eh, I think the specifics of godly ki are beyond muddled at this point due to poor writing. Pretty sure the concept was straight-up forgotten about when ToP was written, because I'm pretty sure it hasn't been brought up once since the animation change. I'm all for digging into the specifics of dialogue and the series' history to try to figure this out in-continuity, but there are some things I just don't bother with, an example being Vegeta saying pure-blooded Saiyans' hair length not changing from the day they are born after emerging from the Hyperbolic Time Chamber (a detail Toriyama made up on the spot to explain why he didn't draw Vegeta's or Goku's hair differently, and also around the time when he didn't remember the Great Ape stuff was a thing).

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Re: Is it possible for someone without God Ki to sense it?

Postby TheShadowEmperor8055 » Mon Jan 22, 2018 3:07 am

Jexulus wrote:Eh, I think the specifics of godly ki are beyond muddled at this point due to poor writing. Pretty sure the concept was straight-up forgotten about when ToP was written, because I'm pretty sure it hasn't been brought up once since the animation change. I'm all for digging into the specifics of dialogue and the series' history to try to figure this out in-continuity, but there are some things I just don't bother with, an example being Vegeta saying pure-blooded Saiyans' hair length not changing from the day they are born after emerging from the Hyperbolic Time Chamber (a detail Toriyama made up on the spot to explain why he didn't draw Vegeta's or Goku's hair differently, and also around the time when he didn't remember the Great Ape stuff was a thing).

Agreed. I'd argue for nearly every case of a character without god ki appearing to "sense" god ki as them simply feeling the large pressure that god ki emits as stated by Vegeta in episode 22 and Trunks in episode 54, but even I'll admit the cases of Hit and Freeza, the latter of which can't sense ki at all, are weird. Hit being able to tell exactly what multiplier Goku was on with the Saiyan's SSB KK by just feeling pressure is difficult to justify, and Freeza being able to describe god ki was also a little strange. The best explanation to that I've been able to identify is that maybe he's seen god ki before, given he made Beerus angry once and "had his clock cleaned" according to Toriyama.
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