How would you have done transformations differently in Super?

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: How would you have done transformations differently in Super?

Post by Benedetto12 » Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:44 pm

Erase SSG and SSB, make it this way: They can tap into Godly-Ki and infuse it on the SS forms, the aura becomes fiery looking just like SSG, anyways this is difficult to do, so they can´t abuse it, and must learn to control it trough the series.

Now for specific transformations:

SS Rage: Make Trunks learn how to tap on godly-ki after his training with Vegeta, but being a non pure saiyan his transformation is different to Goku and Vegeta, it´s more powerful but takes a heavier toll on his body (Make Gowasu and Shin explain this) also, when he absorbs the Spirit Bomb, make it eliminate the stamina issues of this form.

SS Rose: Nothing to change here, a God in a Saiyan body is a good way to explain it

Kaioken: Make it compatible with Godly-Ki, it would work.

Vegeta SSG Form: Make Vegeta having a stronger SSG form than Goku, trough sheer training, this would make them different, Goku depends more on his techniques and Vegeta on his brute raw power.

Ultra Instinct: When Whis tells Goku and Vegeta about this, Goku will take interest and will train to develop it, he will not show any progress until the fight against Jiren where he uses the Omen form.

SS Beyond Blue: Make it be Vegeta way to stand along UI, Vegeta will choose to fully infuse Godly-Ki into the SS form instead of training with Whis, this fits Vegeta´s way of training alone, the form will look the same, but will be the perfect mix beetween Godly-Ki and SS form.

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Re: How would you have done transformations differently in Super?

Post by Grimlock » Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:50 pm

I would get rid of all new Super Saiyan transformations (and Super Saiyan Second Grade, Super Saiyan Third Grade and Super Saiyan 3, for that matter). Piccolo would learn the red-eyed form from Universe 6 Namekuseijins and would learn more about it in that book of legends (he would obviously be the one responsible for the Namekusejins being able to transform into it in the next 216 years).

I think that's it. I don't really care much about transformations, unless a character that truly needs it, which is the case of Piccolo or if I happen to have an idea for a transformation, then probably would give it to someone who fits with it.

To an extent, Metamoru and Potara fusion (along with some other types of fusions, as confirmed by Toriyama to exist) would appear a little bit more, of course, bringing originality with them.
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Re: How would you have done transformations differently in Super?

Post by Dbzfan94 » Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:54 pm

No God forms. the aura can stay and thats how you know they're using 'god power'

Golden Freeza gets a 5th form Cooler like form instead.

Ultra Instinct is fine

Explain SSJ Rage as "USSJ2" (aka SSJ2 Grade 3)

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Re: How would you have done transformations differently in Super?

Post by FortuneSSJ » Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:14 pm

I would not get rid of any transformation, but I would handle them different.

Cabba would be introduced in Champa arc with SSJ already, but without previous knowledge there were other SSJ forms.

I would keep SSB+Kaioken in Champa's Tournament, but I would bring back SSG for Goku in FT Trunks arc.

I would come up with an explanation for SSJ Ikari.

Caulifla, like Cabba, would be introduced with SSJ already.
Kale's Berserker form would be foreshadowed through a flashback that led to Renso getting his leg injured. The form would only be fully showed in ToP for a better shock effect.

Ultra Instinct is fine.

As for Vegeta's new form, I assume he got it in his last training in Time Chamber and seeing how he gets bulky, I see it as Super Vegeta Blue. I would just address that.
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Re: How would you have done transformations differently in Super?

Post by Dragon Ball Gus » Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:32 pm

FortuneSSJ wrote:I would not get rid of any transformation, but I would handle them different.

Cabba would be introduced in Champa arc with SSJ already, but without previous knowledge there were other SSJ forms.

I would keep SSB+Kaioken in Champa's Tournament, but I would bring back SSG for Goku in FT Trunks arc.

I would come up with an explanation for SSJ Ikari.

Caulifla, like Cabba, would be introduced with SSJ already.
Kale's Berserker form would be foreshadowed through a flashback that led to Renso getting his leg injured. The form would only be fully showed in ToP for a better shock effect.

Ultra Instinct is fine.

As for Vegeta's new form, I assume he got it in his last training in Time Chamber and seeing how he gets bulky, I see it as Super Vegeta Blue. I would just address that.
And what about Rosé?
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Re: How would you have done transformations differently in Super?

Post by Kanious » Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:32 pm

I don't even think that transformations need explanations as long we are free to guess/make headcanons that are "possible" using the anime's own logic.

The only thing i would change is the Ultra Instinct. I would spike the hair more, and give that transformation for Vegeta too, and scrap his new blue transformation.

With all other transformations Super introduced, i would change nothing, maybe i would erase the SSG red form or at least change the way to achieve it (i wold scrap the ritual thing)

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Re: How would you have done transformations differently in Super?

Post by jplaya2023 » Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:55 pm

vegeta turns ssj3 with a red ki outline vs beerus. Whiz says vegeta used ssj god's essence to ascend to ssj3 and he's on verge of becoming ssj god

goten and trunks train the ROSAT (they sneak off) and become ssj2's

gohan's mystik form is now his base form and he's able to ascend to ssj2 on top of his mystik strength

future trunks in his timeline remembers the ROSAT and trains and becomes SSJ3 and fights black and get's pounded. He spars with goku who shows him ssj red, and vegeta shows him ssj blue. Trunks gets the ritual and is currently a ssj red

vegeta and goku ascend to ssj blue and master it

vegeta and goku ascend to Ultra instinct

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Re: How would you have done transformations differently in Super?

Post by jplaya2023 » Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:02 pm

The 3 u6 Saiyans would've already had ssj2 prior to cabba fighting vegeta in the pre tournament.

Vegeta tells them about ssj3 ssj red and ssj blue.

The U6 saiyans train in their own version of the ROSAT and unlock ssj3 but don't have the saiyans to do the god ritual

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Re: How would you have done transformations differently in Super?

Post by TheSaiyanGod » Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:54 pm

The problem with SSJ Berserker is that this is a transformation made just to refer to Broly. It's the same thing

They might have given some explanation for Kale getting a different shape from others, better specifying her power up, and where she fit into SSJ transformations.

Particularly, I like the concept of '' Beyond Blue ''. With the Blue, Goku and Vegeta surpassed even the power of a God, who was known only by the legends.
And now, Vegeta on his own got a way beyond even that.

But I believe she could have been better explained, we just know that Vegeta '' broke the wall '', as Goku did.
And this gave the impression that this was a form made only to match Goku's Kaioken Blue (though this transformation overcame it later).
But I like the design. The differences between this form and the regular SSB are remarkable.

The aura is very beautiful, the hair is darker, Vegeta has pupils in the eyes and there is a slight increase in muscle mass.

Incidentally, the Kaioken despite being cool, completely broke the power levels and created an even greater chasm between Goku and the other characters. It was not necessary and it was confusing, the manga did not even use the Kaioken.
Kataphrut wrote:You know what's sad? While I agree with many that Blue was the weak link and the series could have benefited most from keeping God and ditching it...at the same time, my primal monkey brain really likes the colour blue. God is a cool design, I like that he gets thinner like Beerus, but I think the contrast provided by Blue works really well. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if the whole reason for it's existence was to get that blue-orange contrast that Hollywood films love so much against Golden Freeza back in Resurrection F. Since then we've had principle enemies in purple, pink, green and red, all of which contrast nicely with blue. Plus Blue Kaioken was amazing the first time we saw it.

So going by that primitive monkey thinking, my choice would be to just have Super Saiyan God but with blue hair as the default workhorse transformation of the series, including the thin look. Keep Kaioken, Rose, Berserk (don't need the regular Super Saiyan form for her though, just beefy and controlled gets the message across) and Ultra Instinct, replace Rage with Super Saiyan 3 and throw Sparkly Blue Vegeta into a big fucking skip.
That is the problem.

If we keep the SSB Kaioken, then we will inevitably have to give Vegeta a new transformation (as happened in ToP). That is, Royal Blue would still need to be happening (if we speculate otherwise, then it would have to be UI);

It would not have to be in ToP, it could have been in a previous saga and could have been better worked out as well (he could have gotten training in RoSaT).
But I do not think in FT saga that would fit well. Give Vegeta a new transformation so he can beat Black for 3 minutes until he is cornered again (by those bizarre clones)?

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Re: How would you have done transformations differently in Super?

Post by TheShadowEmperor8055 » Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:25 pm

Super Saiyan God - I would have named this "Saiyan God". And I honestly think that this form should have been used way more often than it did throughout Super. It got scrapped too early and reintroduced too late.

Super Saiyan Blue - And I would have named this "Super Saiyan God" rather than "Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan" or "Super Saiyan Blue" (maybe the latter could be kept as a nickname to distinguish it from Super Saiyan Rose). But my MAJOR issue with SSB is that it was spammed WAY too often by Goku in the series and thus has been dominated, rag-dolled and embarrassed too much. If Goku was going to readopt SSG as he did in the ToP, then there were plenty of times where Goku could have used SSG instead of SSB. Instead, it's overused and abused to the point that after a while, being able to contend with SSB just didn't seem like a big feat anymore. Hit can match SSB. So can Arale. See the problem here? This is probably the biggest problem I have with Super. I like the color blue, but I'm not afraid to say that SSB was probably the most underwhelming transformation in recent memory.

Super Saiyan Blue Kaioken - No issues with it.

Super Saiyan Rose - I liked this form, but it seemed too invincible and flawless. How come it displayed the ability for a Saiyan's power to grow instantly after receiving pain while SSB seemingly never displayed this? I know this was a trait with Goku Black in his normal state, but the form utilizing god ki better than SSB would have much made more sense than a borrower of a Saiyan body utilizing that body better than an actual Saiyan.

Super Saiyan Rage - I liked the idea of Trunks being in the fight and not on the sidelines in his own arc, and I respect the form's accomplishments, but I wish this transformation got way more explanation and buildup than it did. It quite literally just came out of nowhere. And again, it's like anyone can match or surpass SSB all of a sudden.

Super Saiyan Berserker - This transformation was literally the most confusing, considering it had three variants: a form that partially accessed SS Berserker's power, SS Berserker itself, and a form that mastered and surpassed SS Berserker's power. And again, lack of explanation for each of these forms. Not to mention the attempt to create homage to Broly was just lame in all honesty. "SON! GOKU!" just isn't as memorable as "KAKAROOOOOTTTTTTTT!!!".

Ultra Instinct - No issues with it.

Vegeta's unnamed variant of Super Saiyan Blue - I really, really like this shade of blue over SSB. But I have the same issue with this as I did with Super Saiyan Rage: while I respect this form's feats, this just came out of nowhere. And also, the timing of its appearance was terrible, considering it was introduced after Ultra Instinct. After the debut of UI, SSB instantly became old news and this powered up variant of it just looked lame compared to UI. It has yet to show anything new or unique like UI did, aside from being stronger.

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Re: How would you have done transformations differently in Super?

Post by JulieYBM » Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:14 am

I forgot all about Vegeta's new form. On one hand, I like giving characters their own unique forms--as we've seen with Rosé, Ikari and Bousou--but I really find Vegeta's new form to be bland. I was hoping that he would continue on the same path of putting into practice what Whis was trying to teach him and Gokuu, only more consciously.
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Re: How would you have done transformations differently in Super?

Post by Ziegander » Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:26 am

Super Saiyan God would have been the pinnacle transformation that was never fully mastered until perhaps just before the Tournament of Power (leaving Ultra Instinct to be gained). A literal Saiyan God to be hinted at during the first battle against Beerus. Goku and Vegeta both pose much more significant threats to Beerus than they had before, but SSJ2 Vegeta is left just unable to cut it and SSJ3 Goku burns through his stamina to just give Beerus a sightly better fight that doesn't last long and only challenges Beerus a bit more than before. Goku achieves the SSG state through a Genki-Dama like ki sharing from the saiyans nearby and then gives Beerus a truly spectacular fight, but, again, he is unable to control the power long enough to defeat Beerus, but Beerus does decide not to destroy the earth.

Goku and Vegeta both train under Whis. Vegeta takes the training more seriously. They learn to control their ki. This takes Vegeta longer to do, due to his rage, but in doing so Goku and Vegeta are able to tap into their full power as super saiyans (full power SSJ3 Goku and full rage boosted SSJ2 Vegeta) in a fully-controlled, calm, zero ki-leaking form. This is Super Saiyan Blue, and it does not have any aura. There is no ascended SSB, there is no mastered SSB, SSB is already the fully-mastered full extent of their fully-realized maximum power as mortal Saiyans.

Whis indicates that they have both gotten tremendously stronger and that if the two of them were to work together in perfect harmony they just might be able to defeat Beerus. Whis also tells them it would be possible for them to become EVEN STRONGER if they could master the *skill* of moving without thinking and then tells Vegeta that this may be more difficult for him to do because of his tendency to overthink situations.

Goku is obviously excited and super happy that there is a new avenue of growth for him to pursue, but Vegeta is a bit insulted. Thinking clearly, rationally, tactically is going to hold him back from getting stronger? Moving without thinking? Sure, sounds valuable if one's very survival is on the line and moving, defending, attacking means the difference between life and death, but Vegeta would rather have the clarity of mind to avoid being put in such a risky situation to begin with. Vegeta's pride in his mind, in his calculating and tactical personality and fighting style drives him to pursue a different path. He continues to train under Whis and observe Goku's growth but he becomes more and more consumed by the need to acquire strength and power in a way that feels more purposeful to him.

Super Saiyan Blue continues to be a form that is BEHIND Super Saiyan God. Blue has awesome power with perfect ki control and calm emotions, but God takes the power of a Super Saiyan to an entirely new level. Without the emotion/desperation/rage boost and contributions of other desperate Super Saiyans, Goku and Vegeta must learn to unlock God Ki within themselves to trigger the Super Saiyan God transformation and even until the very beginning of the Tournament of Power, they are unable to control this skill to the extent that they can transform into a Super Saiyan God at will. A Super Saiyan God has power to rival a God of Destruction, and with enough focus and stamina, a Super Saiyan God could defeat even a powerful and skilled God of Destruction like Beerus. But Jiren is on another level. During the Tournament of Power, Goku and Vegeta are both pushed to their limits, and both have their opportunities to flare into SSG. Finally during the tournament of power each of them learns to control their God Ki to the extent that they can maintain and transform into SSG at will, cementing the idea that, if nothing else, each of them alone could fight Beerus on equal ground and potentially even defeat him on a good day, but Jiren will prove to be too much, even for both of their concerted efforts, working together. But they do not work together in perfect harmony, as Whis suggested they could to defeat Beerus with their Super Saiyan Blue states. Goku taps into Ultra Instinct to give him an edge, Vegeta into a different, tactically minded form. As Jiren reveals his true, full power, neither are enough seperately. Goku and Vegeta power up once again, "mastering" their new forms for just long enough to give Jiren a good fight, and each working together in perfect harmony, Goku acting and reacting without thinking while Vegeta measures Jiren's actions, takes into account Goku's new instinctive abilities, and orchestrates an overall strategy that involves every piece on the board. The two of them fight Jiren to a standstill, but Jiren seems to gain the upperhand in defeating Vegeta. As Vegeta goes out he smiles knowing that Goku has been put in the perfect position to obliterate Jiren and win the tournament.
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Re: How would you have done transformations differently in Super?

Post by Kataphrut » Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:07 am

TheSaiyanGod wrote: Particularly, I like the concept of '' Beyond Blue ''. With the Blue, Goku and Vegeta surpassed even the power of a God, who was known only by the legends.
And now, Vegeta on his own got a way beyond even that.

But I believe she could have been better explained, we just know that Vegeta '' broke the wall '', as Goku did.
And this gave the impression that this was a form made only to match Goku's Kaioken Blue (though this transformation overcame it later).
But I like the design. The differences between this form and the regular SSB are remarkable.

The aura is very beautiful, the hair is darker, Vegeta has pupils in the eyes and there is a slight increase in muscle mass.

Incidentally, the Kaioken despite being cool, completely broke the power levels and created an even greater chasm between Goku and the other characters. It was not necessary and it was confusing, the manga did not even use the Kaioken.
Kataphrut wrote:You know what's sad? While I agree with many that Blue was the weak link and the series could have benefited most from keeping God and ditching it...at the same time, my primal monkey brain really likes the colour blue. God is a cool design, I like that he gets thinner like Beerus, but I think the contrast provided by Blue works really well. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if the whole reason for it's existence was to get that blue-orange contrast that Hollywood films love so much against Golden Freeza back in Resurrection F. Since then we've had principle enemies in purple, pink, green and red, all of which contrast nicely with blue. Plus Blue Kaioken was amazing the first time we saw it.

So going by that primitive monkey thinking, my choice would be to just have Super Saiyan God but with blue hair as the default workhorse transformation of the series, including the thin look. Keep Kaioken, Rose, Berserk (don't need the regular Super Saiyan form for her though, just beefy and controlled gets the message across) and Ultra Instinct, replace Rage with Super Saiyan 3 and throw Sparkly Blue Vegeta into a big fucking skip.
That is the problem.

If we keep the SSB Kaioken, then we will inevitably have to give Vegeta a new transformation (as happened in ToP). That is, Royal Blue would still need to be happening (if we speculate otherwise, then it would have to be UI);

It would not have to be in ToP, it could have been in a previous saga and could have been better worked out as well (he could have gotten training in RoSaT).
But I do not think in FT saga that would fit well. Give Vegeta a new transformation so he can beat Black for 3 minutes until he is cornered again (by those bizarre clones)?
No we don't. Just do what they did in the Future Trunks arc, have Vegeta power up within the confines of Super Saiyan Blue. This idea that Vegeta *needs* to always be within striking distance of Goku is a millstone, and it's part of why the new form is so terrible. It didn't advance the plot or service the character in any way, it was literally a bone thrown by the writers. Plus, it looks ugly.

Kaioken's debut was a great moment and the explanation for why it was doable made perfect sense at the time. That being said, I feel like over time the show's definition of what exactly SSB was has become unclear. It's about ki control, but it also drains stamina except when it doesn't and it's strength varies and it took a long time to clarify whether it was supposed to be stronger or weaker than God. That's why my idea would be to roll the two into one, with blue hair, a thin build, and keep the stuff about perfect ki control that enables the Kaioken. While we're at it, it should be very stamina efficient, since the whole thing about it being taxing was an informed flaw the show never followed through on. That would also contrast nicely against Golden Freeza.

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Re: How would you have done transformations differently in Super?

Post by Lord Beerus » Thu Feb 15, 2018 7:15 am

I really wouldn't change much.

Super Saiyan God became obsolete after in it's debut fight, so replacing with another form (Super SaIyan Blue) in the next arc doesn't bother me at all. I guess I would have given a bit more background on Super Saiyan Rage and Super Saiyan Berserker and would rename Super Saiyan God "Saiyan God" and Super Saiyan Blue "Super Saiyan God", just for the sake of convenience.

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Re: How would you have done transformations differently in Super?

Post by Dragon Ball Gus » Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:25 pm

As for my ideas, the only thing that hasn't been brought up yet that would be a pretty good idea is I would make Golden Freeza a result of Freeza obtaining God ki. Because it would make sense to how Freeza got so damn strong.
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Re: How would you have done transformations differently in Super?

Post by FortuneSSJ » Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:37 pm

Dragon Ball Gus wrote:
FortuneSSJ wrote:I would not get rid of any transformation, but I would handle them different.

Cabba would be introduced in Champa arc with SSJ already, but without previous knowledge there were other SSJ forms.

I would keep SSB+Kaioken in Champa's Tournament, but I would bring back SSG for Goku in FT Trunks arc.

I would come up with an explanation for SSJ Ikari.

Caulifla, like Cabba, would be introduced with SSJ already.
Kale's Berserker form would be foreshadowed through a flashback that led to Renso getting his leg injured. The form would only be fully showed in ToP for a better shock effect.

Ultra Instinct is fine.

As for Vegeta's new form, I assume he got it in his last training in Time Chamber and seeing how he gets bulky, I see it as Super Vegeta Blue. I would just address that.
And what about Rosé?
I forgot about that one. It's okay how it is.
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Re: How would you have done transformations differently in Super?

Post by Lord Beerus » Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:40 pm

Dragon Ball Gus wrote:As for my ideas, the only thing that hasn't been brought up yet that would be a pretty good idea is I would make Golden Freeza a result of Freeza obtaining God ki. Because it would make sense to how Freeza got so strong.
I actually liked that Freeza didn't use God ki to become as strong as he did. It really sells the idea that Freeza is a freak of nature that can become insanely strong with his own devices.

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Re: How would you have done transformations differently in Super?

Post by BlueBasilisk » Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:47 pm

I'd have renamed SSG as Saiyan God and SSB as Super Saiyan God like others have suggested. Blue would keep the quiet, airy sound it made in the RoF movie. 's about it.

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Re: How would you have done transformations differently in Super?

Post by TheSaiyanGod » Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:04 pm

Kataphrut wrote:
TheSaiyanGod wrote: Particularly, I like the concept of '' Beyond Blue ''. With the Blue, Goku and Vegeta surpassed even the power of a God, who was known only by the legends.
And now, Vegeta on his own got a way beyond even that.

But I believe she could have been better explained, we just know that Vegeta '' broke the wall '', as Goku did.
And this gave the impression that this was a form made only to match Goku's Kaioken Blue (though this transformation overcame it later).
But I like the design. The differences between this form and the regular SSB are remarkable.

The aura is very beautiful, the hair is darker, Vegeta has pupils in the eyes and there is a slight increase in muscle mass.

Incidentally, the Kaioken despite being cool, completely broke the power levels and created an even greater chasm between Goku and the other characters. It was not necessary and it was confusing, the manga did not even use the Kaioken.
Kataphrut wrote:You know what's sad? While I agree with many that Blue was the weak link and the series could have benefited most from keeping God and ditching it...at the same time, my primal monkey brain really likes the colour blue. God is a cool design, I like that he gets thinner like Beerus, but I think the contrast provided by Blue works really well. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if the whole reason for it's existence was to get that blue-orange contrast that Hollywood films love so much against Golden Freeza back in Resurrection F. Since then we've had principle enemies in purple, pink, green and red, all of which contrast nicely with blue. Plus Blue Kaioken was amazing the first time we saw it.

So going by that primitive monkey thinking, my choice would be to just have Super Saiyan God but with blue hair as the default workhorse transformation of the series, including the thin look. Keep Kaioken, Rose, Berserk (don't need the regular Super Saiyan form for her though, just beefy and controlled gets the message across) and Ultra Instinct, replace Rage with Super Saiyan 3 and throw Sparkly Blue Vegeta into a big fucking skip.
That is the problem.

If we keep the SSB Kaioken, then we will inevitably have to give Vegeta a new transformation (as happened in ToP). That is, Royal Blue would still need to be happening (if we speculate otherwise, then it would have to be UI);

It would not have to be in ToP, it could have been in a previous saga and could have been better worked out as well (he could have gotten training in RoSaT).
But I do not think in FT saga that would fit well. Give Vegeta a new transformation so he can beat Black for 3 minutes until he is cornered again (by those bizarre clones)?
No we don't. Just do what they did in the Future Trunks arc, have Vegeta power up within the confines of Super Saiyan Blue. This idea that Vegeta *needs* to always be within striking distance of Goku is a millstone, and it's part of why the new form is so terrible. It didn't advance the plot or service the character in any way, it was literally a bone thrown by the writers. Plus, it looks ugly.

Kaioken's debut was a great moment and the explanation for why it was doable made perfect sense at the time. That being said, I feel like over time the show's definition of what exactly SSB was has become unclear. It's about ki control, but it also drains stamina except when it doesn't and it's strength varies and it took a long time to clarify whether it was supposed to be stronger or weaker than God. That's why my idea would be to roll the two into one, with blue hair, a thin build, and keep the stuff about perfect ki control that enables the Kaioken. While we're at it, it should be very stamina efficient, since the whole thing about it being taxing was an informed flaw the show never followed through on. That would also contrast nicely against Golden Freeza.
It is not obligatory Vegeta always be on the same level as Goku, but it is necessary, because even if Goku is always much stronger, this will leave Vegeta himself obsolete.

In the fight against Black, Goku already had the SSB Kaioken. If he had used it before, maybe he had defeated the enemy and what would be the role of Vegeta and Trunks in this fight?
In fact, although the Kaioken was well explained, it created some confusion later.

He did not use against Black because supposedly, this could cause that Ki disease and it could have serious damage. But in the fight against Merged Zamasu he ignores this and simply uses without any training. Why did not you do it before? If he did, he would have won.
Then he still uses the Kaioken freely and this creates an even greater power difference between him and the others. Vegeta needed something to match that.

About the look of the new Blue, I do not think it's ugly, but that's my opinion.
And it was necessary to beat hakaishin Toppo, no one was able to defeat him (maybe Goku with SSB Kaioken could not even) then yes, he advanced the plot and had some use
Last edited by TheSaiyanGod on Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Cetra
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Re: How would you have done transformations differently in Super?

Post by Cetra » Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:38 pm

Well ...

SSJ3 Vegeta against Beerus simply because it is time
Super Saiyajin God as is.
Super Saiyajin Blue as is.
Divine Kaiouken as is.

Super Saiyajin Cabba as is

Golden Freeza, Freeza trying this whole training crap then realizing he cannot get powerful enough in time this way so he returns home were the origins of his spontaneous mutation is explained and used to make him stronger.

Ultimate Trunks, leading to an ordinarily strong Trunks and Trunks later being an incredibly good SSJ2
Super Saiyajin Rose as is.
Super Saiyajin Rage with a little more foreshadowing concerning all the crap Trunks went through and now this plus the desperate feeling of not wanting to experience more loss, it ultimately leads to his transformation, Trunks would also achieve it after Vegetto defuses and Fusion Zamasu is about to kill Mai -> it would be the opener for the final battle

Fusion Zamasu, "Genkidama enhanced -> using the Genkidama he has learned together with his connection to the universe to gather power; also foreshadows his ultimate fusion with the universe by showing his whole nature as a Kaioushin
Vegetto Blue as well as Divine Kaiouken, also with him already assuming that this would be bad for the fusion but he would need to use it to have a chance to weaken Zamasu and trap him with the Mafuuba (which turns out to be useless against him)
Fusion Zamasu, "Genkidama enhanced" + "Kaioushin-Ken", having learned the Kaiouken and using it as the "Kaioushin-Ken"; leading to a monstrously powerful and muscular Zamasu that wipes the floor with Vegetto; calls himself an endlessly running running reactor because his body is able to fully exploit the Kaiouken and enhances the power of the Genkidama even more but because of the fusion it actually rips his body apart and leads to the corrupted form
Fusion Zamasu, corrupted form; as the previous form but this time like in the anime and it actually only makes him more insane
Univerzalmasu as is

Legendary Super Saiyajin Kale, with just a bit more screentime and a reference to Broly, not in the most in your face-way but the others saying "this looks familiar ..."
Legendary Controlled Super Saiyajin Kale as is
Super Saiyajin Caulifla with a bit more screentime for Caulifla before; both Kale and her try to achieve the form at the same time, Caulifla can actually get the SSJ2 then when she tries to calm Kale and master it through Goku like in the show; that's fine by me
SSJ2 Cabba either also against Kale or against Freeza as it happened
Migatte no Goku'i as is
Legendary Controlled Super Saiyajin Kafla, LLCSJ2 Kafla as is - she would also be the final competitor of U6 and the last one to be fought before Jiren as well as the reason why Migatte no Goku'i returns; just as it happened, only that it would happen later
If that really was not a mere mistake which it is not seem like because lightning was drawn in that episode and the hairstyle appeared in more than one frame then this whole SSJ2 hairstyle Blue Goku would have been fine if it actually returned; I have no problem if he has that power now; as a matter of fact I even though for one scene when Goku beat up Black that his blue hair was SSJ3 style because we saw him from above and it looked so look (sadly it was just normal SSJB)
Special Snowflake Super Saiyajin Blue Vegeta as is
"Citation needed."
"too lazy

feel free to take it with grain of salt or discredit me altogether, I'm not losing any sleep"

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