Was a new transformation really necessary for Goku?

[sintzu]

I just don't argue it here because I don't think that's what DB is or should be.

Taking advantages with what they have isn't going to change what DB is. For example, if we had gotten some U10 fighters helping against Zamasu it would've helped make them more relevant in the current tournament.

[Simere]

I just don't argue it here because I don't think that's what DB is or should be.

Taking advantages with what they have isn't going to change what DB is. For example, if we had gotten some U10 fighters helping against Zamasu it would've helped make them more relevant in the current tournament.

I was only talking about the power scaling there. Having U10 fighters appear in the Black arc is certainly an interesting idea, which, as you say, would have been easy to leverage going into the ToP. They could have kept doing that for each universe and then when the ToP eventually did come around, potentially as a series or franchise ending tournament, we'd have a lot more attachment and potential storylines to utilize. It could have been something they built up for years, a decade even—the arrival of the ToP could have been become a mythically anticipated thing in our fandom.

But like I said, you're missing out on potential stories no matter what you do. Having U10 fighters appear in the Black arc would require some fundamental rewrites, and the end result would be a markedly differently story than the one we got. Maybe you'd like that, maybe I would too, but many people were happy with the story as told. It's not an inherently bad thing they didn't go that route, even if you consider the result of this arc disappointing.

[SsjCookie]

I too think it should have been saved for another time.
Honestly, Super has way too many transformations lately, it doesn't come across as anything special anymore, especially after presenting the asspull Saiyans Caulifla and Kale/Kefla.
I honestly can't see Goku getting another transformation after this one in the future.

[Saturnine]

Training hard vs training smart was made a huge thing back in the Cell arc, where Vegeta was unable to make as much progress in 2 years as Goku and Gohan did in less than a year. But that was for two reasons: because Vegeta refused to partner up with Future Trunks for training, even though it was said that training with a partner was much more beneficial than training alone - and because he refused to get proper rest and pushed his body too hard to the point of causing it detriment. Goku both used Gohan as a sparring partner and knew how to rest and recuperate.

Vegeta, in his inferiority complex, thought it was because Goku had so much more talent than himself, but that time it were actually Vegeta's personality flaws that prevented him from training as effectively as Goku did. If Vegeta had trained like Goku and Gohan did, he'd very likely be much closer to Goku in power, rather than say, being only 70% of full power Goku after 2 years in the chamber.

[Michsi]

Looking at the ratings this week, it certainly didn't hurt

I know some don't like the merchandise excuse, but part of me really believes the reason these transformations are so simple is because it makes the toy production easier.

[HeroR]

Looking at the ratings this week, it certainly didn't hurt

I know some don't like the merchandise excuse, but part of me really believes the reason these transformations are so simple is because it makes the toy production easier.

Despite all the new forms, almost none of them got toys outside of UI Goku.

[Michsi]

Looking at the ratings this week, it certainly didn't hurt

I know some don't like the merchandise excuse, but part of me really believes the reason these transformations are so simple is because it makes the toy production easier.

Despite all the new forms, almost none of them got toys outside of UI Goku.

Vegeta's new blue form is the only one I can think of that has yet to get a toy, but other than that I can't think of any other transformation that got skipped. (also the Vegeta one is fairly new, so he might yet)

SSG is basically base Goku with red hair
SSGSS is basically SSJ Goku with blue hair.

UI is different because the hair form is unique, but then again you have Omen and then complete version , so it's still 2 product lines based on the same toy with slight modification.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Looking at the ratings this week, it certainly didn't hurt

I know some don't like the merchandise excuse, but part of me really believes the reason these transformations are so simple is because it makes the toy production easier.

Despite all the new forms, almost none of them got toys outside of UI Goku.

Vegeta's new blue form is the only one I can think of that has yet to get a toy, but other than that I can't think of any other transformation that got skipped. (also the Vegeta one is fairly new, so he might yet)

SSG is basically base Goku with red hair
SSGSS is basically SSJ Goku with blue hair.

UI is different because the hair form is unique, but then again you have Omen and then complete version , so it's still 2 product lines based on the same toy with slight modification.

SSG has gotten anything significant since 2015, easier or not they're just not interested in SSG. Also they have only used the same mould of UI once for Omen, they haven't really bothered with Omen either, the fact the Grandista UI's alternative colouring is just the BW prototype and not Omen shows they're not.

Trunks' Ikari got skipped and was just SS2.

[Michsi]

Despite all the new forms, almost none of them got toys outside of UI Goku.

Vegeta's new blue form is the only one I can think of that has yet to get a toy, but other than that I can't think of any other transformation that got skipped. (also the Vegeta one is fairly new, so he might yet)

SSG is basically base Goku with red hair
SSGSS is basically SSJ Goku with blue hair.

UI is different because the hair form is unique, but then again you have Omen and then complete version , so it's still 2 product lines based on the same toy with slight modification.

SSG has gotten anything significant since 2015, easier or not they're just not interested in SSG. Also they have only used the same mould of UI once for Omen, they haven't really bothered with Omen either, the fact the Grandista UI's alternative colouring is just the BW prototype and not Omen shows they're not.

Trunks' Ikari got skipped and was just SS2.

2015 wasn't that long ago and if the toy didn't sell exceptionally well, then I guess that would explain it. Also, the form got surpassed before Super even began, so I assume there would be more interest in the blue one, which I see practically everywhere now.

UI is relatively new, I'd expect it would take some time to suss out market demand and see how much they should invest in this particular line.

Either way, there's no denying that the simpler the form, the easier it is to reuse the same model over and over again and brand it as a different toy. Heck, I've seen a figure of Gohan that was basically just Goku's version but with shorter hair. I get the irony is that that's basically what Gohan's adult form is even in the anime, but still...

[Ki Breaker]

Yes and no..
Yes because, considering super is ending and without a powerup of some sorts he wouldn't have surpassed the gods, which would have been really shitty after all the berrus surpassing training..
No because fuck transformations, UI was fine as a technique and fully capable of surpassing berrus on it's own, why the fuck make changes to his hair again, that's just unnecessary..

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Vegeta's new blue form is the only one I can think of that has yet to get a toy, but other than that I can't think of any other transformation that got skipped. (also the Vegeta one is fairly new, so he might yet)

SSG is basically base Goku with red hair
SSGSS is basically SSJ Goku with blue hair.

UI is different because the hair form is unique, but then again you have Omen and then complete version , so it's still 2 product lines based on the same toy with slight modification.

SSG has gotten anything significant since 2015, easier or not they're just not interested in SSG. Also they have only used the same mould of UI once for Omen, they haven't really bothered with Omen either, the fact the Grandista UI's alternative colouring is just the BW prototype and not Omen shows they're not.

Trunks' Ikari got skipped and was just SS2.

2015 wasn't that long ago and if the toy didn't sell exceptionally well, then I guess that would explain it. Also, the form got surpassed before Super even began, so I assume there would be more interest in the blue one, which I see practically everywhere now.

UI is relatively new, I'd expect it would take some time to suss out market demand and see how much they should invest in this particular line.

Either way, there's no denying that the simpler the form, the easier it is to reuse the same model over and over again and brand it as a different toy. Heck, I've seen a figure of Gohan that was basically just Goku's version but with shorter hair. I get the irony is that that's basically what Gohan's adult form is even in the anime, but still...

Oh for sure it just gives them more reason's to be lazy f**kers! They still marker weaker forms than SSG they just don't love it, a shame fans even voted SSG to be re-released but they didn't take note.

They've gone completely ham with UI moreso than any form in modern DB and this was decided well before the form made it's debut last week, they've literally got UI going from, gashapons to candy prizes to prize figures to premium prize figures, the whole lot!

There is no market research done for what they merch or don't, it is all on the whim of the people in charge.

[Michsi]

They've gone completely ham with UI moreso than any form in modern DB and this was decided well before the form made it's debut last week, they've literally got UI going from, gashapons to candy prizes to prize figures to premium prize figures, the whole lot!

There is no market research done for what they merch or don't, it is all on the whim of the people in charge.

That's interesting. I do have to admit, it seems to reflect the hype and excitement it got in the fandom. I recall quite a bit of groaning when SSG and SSGSS got revealed because of the recoloring tactic, but UI, especially the Omen version, was almost universally praised. Not to mention that it's Super's first proper transformation, the other belonging to the movies first and foremost (super blue and Ikari shouldn't count imho) so I guess that would explain the eagerness.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

They've gone completely ham with UI moreso than any form in modern DB and this was decided well before the form made it's debut last week, they've literally got UI going from, gashapons to candy prizes to prize figures to premium prize figures, the whole lot!

There is no market research done for what they merch or don't, it is all on the whim of the people in charge.

That's interesting. I do have to admit, it seems to reflect the hype and excitement it got in the fandom. I recall quite a bit of groaning when SSG and SSGSS got revealed because of the recoloring tactic, but UI, especially the Omen version, was almost universally praised. Not to mention that it's Super's first proper transformation, the other belonging to the movies first and foremost (super blue and Ikari shouldn't count imho) so I guess that would explain the eagerness.

Even with the movies the forms didn't get that big a push that UI is getting. It's crazy I've been berating them for 3 year but at least they're delivering UI.

The first UI premium prize figure opens on Saturday. Fans in Japan are already gunning for the UI, but at only 2 per shop and a 2% chance of getting one it's gonna be tough. Some Japanese folks tweeted out Saturday is gonna be war haha. The pre sale of the figure already gone up to ¥12,000... It's only gonna go up I feel. Just to put that in perspective the other figures in the lottery are pre sale-ing at around ¥3,500...!

[majinwarman]

They've gone completely ham with UI moreso than any form in modern DB and this was decided well before the form made it's debut last week, they've literally got UI going from, gashapons to candy prizes to prize figures to premium prize figures, the whole lot!

There is no market research done for what they merch or don't, it is all on the whim of the people in charge.

That's interesting. I do have to admit, it seems to reflect the hype and excitement it got in the fandom. I recall quite a bit of groaning when SSG and SSGSS got revealed because of the recoloring tactic, but UI, especially the Omen version, was almost universally praised. Not to mention that it's Super's first proper transformation, the other belonging to the movies first and foremost (super blue and Ikari shouldn't count imho) so I guess that would explain the eagerness.

Even with the movies the forms didn't get that big a push that UI is getting. It's crazy I've been berating them for 3 year but at least they're delivering UI.

The first UI premium prize figure opens on Saturday. Fans in Japan are already gunning for the UI, but at only 2 per shop and a 2% chance of getting one it's gonna be tough. Some Japanese folks tweeted out Saturday is gonna be war haha. The pre sale of the figure already gone up to ¥12,000... It's only gonna go up I feel. Just to put that in perspective the other figures in the lottery are pre sale-ing at around ¥3,500...!

I also think that Ultra Instinct was the first form/ technique that clearly built up in the series. They wanted the viewers to be hyped when it finally happens.

[Miracles]

They had to increase Goku's power level somehow.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

I also think that Ultra Instinct was the first form/ technique that clearly built up in the series. They wanted the viewers to be hyped when it finally happens.

Right. It's not just another new form in the sense of oh just another regular power up.

There definitely is something different about UI I definitely get that feeling amongst the hype for it.

[Kenneth La Torre]

Episode 130s preview should answer if MUI is needed. The ones who decided to make jiren stronger than hakaishin are responsible for this, especially how even in the manga, shin or kibito said that no mortal has surpassed a hakaishin (which they were wrong). But I give credit where credit is do, 4 arcs had to go by before goku finally surpassed the bar that was first put on him in super. If this were dbz, beerus would have been surpassed the next arc by the next villain.

[HeroR]

Yes and no..
Yes because, considering super is ending and without a powerup of some sorts he wouldn't have surpassed the gods, which would have been really shitty after all the berrus surpassing training..
No because fuck transformations, UI was fine as a technique and fully capable of surpassing berrus on it's own, why the fuck make changes to his hair again, that's just unnecessary..

UI for Goku was never just a technique. Omen was always called a form from the get-go. And they didn't changed anything since it was again stated since 110 that Goku's UI wasn't complete, hence 'Omen' or 'Signs'.

[HeroR]

They've gone completely ham with UI moreso than any form in modern DB and this was decided well before the form made it's debut last week, they've literally got UI going from, gashapons to candy prizes to prize figures to premium prize figures, the whole lot!

There is no market research done for what they merch or don't, it is all on the whim of the people in charge.

That's interesting. I do have to admit, it seems to reflect the hype and excitement it got in the fandom. I recall quite a bit of groaning when SSG and SSGSS got revealed because of the recoloring tactic, but UI, especially the Omen version, was almost universally praised. Not to mention that it's Super's first proper transformation, the other belonging to the movies first and foremost (super blue and Ikari shouldn't count imho) so I guess that would explain the eagerness.

There is Super Saiyan Rose, even if it is just a version of Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan.

[ZenkaiBoosts]

Episode 130s preview should answer if MUI is needed. The ones who decided to make jiren stronger than hakaishin are responsible for this, especially how even in the manga, shin or kibito said that no mortal has surpassed a hakaishin (which they were wrong). But I give credit where credit is do, 4 arcs had to go by before goku finally surpassed the bar that was first put on him in super. If this were dbz, beerus would have been surpassed the next arc by the next villain.

"If this were dbz, beerus would have been surpassed the next arc by the next villain"


I don't know why but that had me legit laughing lol thank you: )