YAMOSHI was the SSGod from Battle of Gods. No one else.

[AnimeNation101]

People keep saying that there is a Super Saiyan God who fought on Planet Vegeta from Shenron’s legend in Battle of Gods. But thats been long retconned by Super not mentioning all that and by Toriyama’s interview where he mentions Yamoshi.

He is literally asked this question:

Was the “legendary Super Saiyan” Freeza feared the Super Saiyan God that appeared in Battle of Gods?

And he literally responds with this answer:

In a certain sense, they are the same person. That is to say, very long ago, before Planet Vegeta was the Saiyans’ planet, there was a man named Yamoshi who had a righteous heart despite being a Saiyan. He and his five comrades started a rebellion, but he was cornered by combatants and became a Super Saiyan for the first time, though his transformation and fearsome fighting style shocked the other Saiyans. Outnumbered, Yamoshi eventually wore himself out and was defeated, but this was only the beginning of his legend. Afterwards, Yamoshi’s spirit wandered in continuous search of six righteous-hearted Saiyans, seeking a new savior: Super Saiyan God.
[Tori-bot] “And that’s why there’s that ceremony to become Super Saiyan God.”

This means Yamoshi was the one and only SSGod before Goku and Vegeta. You can probably consider Yamoshi’s spirit itself as a Super Saiyan God. There is no unknown SSGod from Planet Vegeta and his interview debunks it.

Heck, Super even mentions that the Namekians recorded the legend of said SSGod. And in the interview, Toriyama even mentions that and Elder Namekian records Yamoshi’s story in the Namekian Book of Legends. Maybe that’s how Piccolo becomes important again?

[MoscoSama]

Yamoshi4 , Where are the other 3 then?

[AnimeNation101]

Yamoshi4 , Where are the other 3 then?

Lol, when i copied, i guess it copied the footnotes too

[Simere]

That says nothing about Yamoshi even being a Super Saiyan God, much less the one and only.

[AnimeNation101]

That says nothing about Yamoshi even being a Super Saiyan God, much less the one and only.

It shows that the B.o.G movie legend is now both wrong and irrelevant and that technically, according to Toriyama, Yamoshi is the first SSGod. This probably implies that as the spirit of the transformation, you can technically consider Yamoshi’s spirit as that of the Super Saiyan god. Heck, Shenron even says in DBS that the story of the SSGod was recorded by Namekians in the Book of Legends. And in this interview, Toriyama explains how an Elder found out about Yamoshi and wrote his story in the Namekian Book of Legends. So clearly Toriyama was implying that Yamoshi is the ssj and SSGod of legend.

And so, besides the now irrelevant B.o.G movie, nothing suggests that there have been any other SSGods. So as far as we know, the only SSGods are Yamoshi’s spirit (technically), Goku, and Vegeta.

[Marlowe89]

The text just says that Yamoshi was the same person only "in a certain sense" and then describes the Super Saiyan origin story of himself and his five comrades, relating it to how his spirit's search for six righteous Saiyans allows the ceremony/ritual to be performed. Nothing in there about Yamoshi being a Super Saiyan God; only that his wandering spirit actively seeks one out.

The Planet Vegeta backstory may indeed have been retconned, but it's impossible to confirm. Hell, Goku could have been the first user as far as we know.

[Bergamo]

Yamoshi is like Lapiz and Lazuli. If they're not in the story, then it can be assumed that that's just Toriyama making things up.

[SaiyanGod117]

Yamoshi is like Lapiz and Lazuli. If they're not in the story, then it can be assumed that that's just Toriyama making things up.

Those are some really nice names, I wished they were called that in the anime and manga.

[Tectorman]

That says nothing about Yamoshi even being a Super Saiyan God, much less the one and only.

Agreed. That interview says Yamoshi was the first Super Saiyan, he and five other good Saiyans led a failed rebellion, and afterwards, his spirit sought after six more good Saiyans. Ergo, his spirit, drawn to six good Saiyans and, after the ritual, inhabiting one of them for a brief time, was the first SSjG. The same SSjG we saw in the movie fighting those Oozaru. I fail to see how that part of the movie got retconned.

I mean, had the interview said something to the effect of "and his spirit never found a group of six good Saiyans prior to Goku and his friends in the BoG arc", then yes, his wandering spirit would be, prior to Goku himself, the closest thing to a SSjG we ever had, and the movie scene with the original SSjG would be retconned. But the interview doesn't seem to say or remotely imply that.

[AnimeNation101]

That says nothing about Yamoshi even being a Super Saiyan God, much less the one and only.

Agreed. That interview says Yamoshi was the first Super Saiyan, he and five other good Saiyans led a failed rebellion, and afterwards, his spirit sought after six more good Saiyans. Ergo, his spirit, drawn to six good Saiyans and, after the ritual, inhabiting one of them for a brief time, was the first SSjG. The same SSjG we saw in the movie fighting those Oozaru. I fail to see how that part of the movie got retconned.

I mean, had the interview said something to the effect of "and his spirit never found a group of six good Saiyans prior to Goku and his friends in the BoG arc", then yes, his wandering spirit would be, prior to Goku himself, the closest thing to a SSjG we ever had, and the movie scene with the original SSjG would be retconned. But the interview doesn't seem to say or remotely imply that.

Its simple. Toriyama is literally asked if the first Super Saiyan and the Super Saiyan God from Battle of Gods are the same person. And he says Yamoshi in a certain sense. The “certain sense” part is left up to interpretation but it seems to imply that Yamoshi’s spirit is technically a super saiyan god as his spirit became that of the spirit of the Super Saiyan God transform. Because he became a spirit, that was what allowed a ritual to be possible to create a Super Saiyan God. So to an extent, his spirit must have has some godlike qualities to it.

This means that the B.o.G movie’s legend has been contradicted as for one, Yamoshi’s battle does not take place on Planet Vegeta and two, Yamoshi does not actually transform into ssgod during his fight.

[emperior]

The movie Battle of Gods doesn’t have to be considered anymore, that much is sure. The only version to consider now is the Super’s retelling.
We still don’t know whether or not Goku was the first Super Saiyan God. We don’t even know if Sadala exploded during Yamoshi’s fight, but I assume it didn’t because Yamoshi was defeated by numbers, and his transformation became a legend among the Saiyans.
My theory is still that the first SSG appeared on Sadala and his fight caused the planet’s destruction, and that’s why it was never a legend among the Saiyans. But Goku may very well have been the first.
All of this still doesn’t explain how Freeza knew of the SSG in Minus. Did he have Monaka deliver him a copy of the Namekian Book of Legends? Or maybe some Saiyans actually knew of the SSG’s legend, and that’s how Freeza knew too? Maybe King Vegeta didn’t believe in it and that’s why he never told his son about it.
Hopefully the movie or further stories will clarify all of this.

[Grimlock]

The movie Battle of Gods doesn’t have to be considered anymore, that much is sure. The only version to consider now is the Super’s retelling.

Please do not force your opinion/stance on the matter down everyone else's throats. You can consider the retellings over the movies but that does not make it a fact, and does not make you be correct.

Unless you can provide an official claim stating that the retellings are the continuity/storyline people must follow, a person is entitled to consider whatever they want just as much as you consider the retellings.

[emperior]

The movie Battle of Gods doesn’t have to be considered anymore, that much is sure. The only version to consider now is the Super’s retelling.

Please do not force your opinion/stance on the matter down everyone else's throats. You can consider the retellings over the movies but that does not make it a fact, and does not make you be correct.

Unless you can provide an official claim stating that the retellings are the continuity/storyline people must follow, a person is entitled to consider whatever they want just as much as you consider the retellings.

Do whatever you want. The movies are not considered anymore when the new stories are written, but if you want to consider outdated source I won’t stop you. Just understand that if you mix the movies with the other arcs in Super starting from U6 then you end up with a plot which is not coherent. Starting from the U6 tournament in which a Blue Goku with Kaioken x10 is still not above Beerus, whose full power, if you follow the movie, is not even twice that of SSG Goku.

To me it’s more than clear from the story alone that the movies don’t have to be considered, but Toriyama’s interview in December made it even more clear how he doesn’t consider his movie version of BoG too, as he completely changed Super Saiyan God’s backstory from then.

[Grimlock]

Just understand that if you mix the movies with the other arcs in Super starting from U6 then you end up with a plot which is not coherent. Starting from the U6 tournament in which a Blue Goku with Kaioken x10 is still not above Beerus, whose full power, if you follow the movie, is not even twice that of SSG Goku.

Well then, it's a good thing that I don't care and I don't watch Dragon Ball just to nitpick about power level at all anymore. That issue died a long time ago.

To me it’s more than clear from the story alone that the movies don’t have to be considered, but Toriyama’s interview in December made it even more clear how he doesn’t consider his movie version of BoG too, as he completely changed Super Saiyan God’s backstory from then.

Except he did not change it anything, he just brought additional information to what was said in Movie 14. The Yamoshi stuff and the Super Saiyan God ancient Saiyan are two different events taking place in different eras, the former in planet Sadala and the latter in planet Vegeta. It does not mean he does not consider his own movie.

[BlueBasilisk]

I put that bit of lore into the same limbo status as Tarble. Toriyama's new info about SSG doesn't contradict that story, but Super (neither the anime nor the manga as far as I can recall) brings it up. So it might still be applicable, it might not. But I think Toriyama could easily use it again by having that person be the righteous Saiyan Yamoshi's spirit was seeking, and then it found Goku and Vegeta later. That SSG died and accomplished little to nothing so it's not going to make a big impact on the lore either way, I think.

As for why Vegeta didn't know it, it's a story about righteous saiyans trying to overthrow the evil ones who became the Saiyans we know. I can easily see why that story might not get passed around as much as the one about the first Super Saiyan.

[AnimeNation101]

Just understand that if you mix the movies with the other arcs in Super starting from U6 then you end up with a plot which is not coherent. Starting from the U6 tournament in which a Blue Goku with Kaioken x10 is still not above Beerus, whose full power, if you follow the movie, is not even twice that of SSG Goku.

Well then, it's a good thing that I don't care and I don't watch Dragon Ball just to nitpick about power level at all anymore. That issue died a long time ago.

To me it’s more than clear from the story alone that the movies don’t have to be considered, but Toriyama’s interview in December made it even more clear how he doesn’t consider his movie version of BoG too, as he completely changed Super Saiyan God’s backstory from then.

Except he did not change it anything, he just brought additional information to what was said in Movie 14. The Yamoshi stuff and the Super Saiyan God ancient Saiyan are two different events taking place in different eras, the former in planet Sadala and the latter in planet Vegeta. It does not mean he does not consider his own movie.

No. They aren’t 2 seperate events. Thats why for the Super B.o.G saga, they didn’t even mention a super saiyan god on Planet Vegeta. And in the interview, Toriyama was asked if the Legendary Super Saiyan and Super Saiyan God from Battle of Gods were the same. He said that it was Yamoshi in a certain sense. Then he proceeded to tell Yamoshi’s tale. This whole answer retconned the Battle of Gods legend. And even more in-universe proof that there was never a ssgod on Planet Vegeta is in the DBZ episode (written by Toriyama) where King Kai tells Goku about the history of the saiyans from their time on Planet Plant up until the present. No where did King Kai mention a Super Saiyan God and if he knew all the other saiyan history of Planet Plant to Planet Vegeta, he would have known of such an event as big as a Super Saiyan God vs Evil Saiyans civil war.

So no. Battle of Gods’s Legend is no longer viable as it has been retconned and disproven. Yamoshi’s story is the new and official legend.

[AnimeNation101]

I put that bit of lore into the same limbo status as Tarble. Toriyama's new info about SSG doesn't contradict that story, but Super (neither the anime nor the manga as far as I can recall) brings it up. So it might still be applicable, it might not. But I think Toriyama could easily use it again by having that person be the righteous Saiyan Yamoshi's spirit was seeking, and then it found Goku and Vegeta later. That SSG died and accomplished little to nothing so it's not going to make a big impact on the lore either way, I think.

As for why Vegeta didn't know it, it's a story about righteous saiyans trying to overthrow the evil ones who became the Saiyans we know. I can easily see why that story might not get passed around as much as the one about the first Super Saiyan.

Yes but if it really happened, the how come King Kai didn’t tell Goku about it in that dbz episode (that was written by toriyama) talking about the Saiyans history from being on Planet Plant to present times? Surely King Kai would have known of such an important Planet Vegeta event since he know about all the other ones.

[Grimlock]

And even more in-universe proof that there was never a ssgod on Planet Vegeta is in the DBZ episode where King Kai tells Goku about the history of the saiyans from their time on Planet Plant up until the present. No where did King Kai mention a Super Saiyan God and if he knew all the other saiyan history of Planet Plant to Planet Vegeta, he would have known of such an event as big as a Super Saiyan God vs Evil Saiyans civil war.

We have reached a point where people are so desperate to prove they are right by using episodes from the 1990s, and what is worse, a filler episode/flashback.

I am so sorry, but I have wasted a lot of time on this issue not so long ago, and I won't be involved in it again. I just wanted to point out that opinions don't become fact because you believe it. You can consider the retellings just fine, but please do not state that the retellings are here to throw the movies out of the window because they are not, all the retellings do is creating another continuity, and since no one here have an official source that confirms that we must take into consideration just the retellings, one can consider the movies just fine as well.

Movie 14 and Movie 15 are still legit until stated otherwise or if Toriyama himself comes up with a story/his own retelling that contradicts the movies, it won't take Toei's retellings to do that.

[emperior]

I put that bit of lore into the same limbo status as Tarble. Toriyama's new info about SSG doesn't contradict that story, but Super (neither the anime nor the manga as far as I can recall) brings it up. So it might still be applicable, it might not. But I think Toriyama could easily use it again by having that person be the righteous Saiyan Yamoshi's spirit was seeking, and then it found Goku and Vegeta later. That SSG died and accomplished little to nothing so it's not going to make a big impact on the lore either way, I think.

As for why Vegeta didn't know it, it's a story about righteous saiyans trying to overthrow the evil ones who became the Saiyans we know. I can easily see why that story might not get passed around as much as the one about the first Super Saiyan.

Yes but if it really happened, the how come King Kai didn’t tell Goku about it in that dbz episode (that was written by toriyama) talking about the Saiyans history from being on Planet Plant to present times? Surely King Kai would have known of such an important Planet Vegeta event since he know about all the other ones.

You can’t bring up King Kai’s word from a filler as proof. Not a single God knew of Super Saiyan God so why should King Kai of all people. The guy didn’t even know it was Freeza who destroyed Vegeta.

I believe the legend told in Battle of Gods is no longer valid as it wasn’t mentioned in the retelling and Toriyama basically retconned the SSG legend from Shenron to be Yamoshi’s. It’s the same “righteous Saiyan gains immense power but dies outnumbered by the evil ones” and it happened on Sadala.
I think this is enough proof of it.

[AnimeNation101]

And even more in-universe proof that there was never a ssgod on Planet Vegeta is in the DBZ episode where King Kai tells Goku about the history of the saiyans from their time on Planet Plant up until the present. No where did King Kai mention a Super Saiyan God and if he knew all the other saiyan history of Planet Plant to Planet Vegeta, he would have known of such an event as big as a Super Saiyan God vs Evil Saiyans civil war.

We have reached a point where people are so desperate to prove they are right by using episodes from the 1990s, and what is worse, a filler episode/flashback.

I am so sorry, but I have wasted a lot of time on this issue not so long ago, and I won't be involved in it again. I just wanted to point out that opinions don't become fact because you believe it. You can consider the retellings just fine, but please do not state that the retellings are here to throw the movies out of the window because they are not, all the retellings do is creating another continuity, and since no one here have an official source that confirms that we must take into consideration just the retellings, one can consider the movies just fine as well.

Movie 14 and Movie 15 are still legit until stated otherwise or if Toriyama himself comes up with a story/his own retelling that contradicts the movies, it won't take Toei's retellings to do that.

Its sad that there are so many people that are so stubborn that they start bashing legit info because its old. Its common knowledge or should be common knowledge that Toriyama wrote the episode the i used to prove what you think is wrong. And i did prove it right. But now you’re just trying to find a way to make my proof irrelevant because you won’t except the truth.

The retellings have been retconned. Simple as that. The Battle of Gods movie legend is now irrelevant BS that has been retconned by Toriyama himself. It doesn’t apply to the story or lore of the main series anymore. The way its always been in Dragon Ball is that the newest iteration of certain facts or events is always what we go with. These are retconns. And the fact that the B.o.G movie legend already had a plot hole when you bring up the dbz, Toriyama written episode, there is definitely no reason to stand with this now retconned, now inaccurate, now irrelevant piece of info from the movie.

Anyone who is still staying with that legend is very much in denial unless there is some info that supersedes Toriyama’s interview and the dbz, Toriyama written episode.