Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[dbgtFO]

Official Power Levels

Spoiler:

Fusion and Potara

Char A and Char B; A > B

Fusion = B x 2 x 15
Potara = (A + B) x 50 (Only Vegetto)

Spoiler:

SSJ1 = Base Form x 50
SSJ2 = SSJ1 X 2
SSJ3 = SSJ2 X 3
SSJ3 Full Power = SSJ2 X 4

Nice, it's nice to have some images to make it easier to take in all those numbers.

Dragon Ball: You ignore a lot of official battle powers like beginning of DB Goku 22nd TB Goku and Tenshinhan and you have Fangs weaker than Invisible Man, when Baba claimed her fighters got progressively stronger, so Fangs should be the weakest.
I agree with the idea, that Goku with Ozaru fist is even stronger than Popo and Kami, since it goes well with Popo's statement, that Goku has a lot of power, but isn't using it properly or whatever it was he said.

Tenshinhan claims 23rd TB Goku is much stronger than he was 3 years ago, but here you have weighted Goku a good deal below that. I've myself gone and back and forth on this quote, because I'm not sure, if the idea is Goku is a lot stronger, than when he fought Ten or when he fought Piccolo.
Logically it makes sense, that Tenshinhan would have a better idea of figuring out Goku's strength by fighting him and comparing him to their last fight, rather than the fight against Piccolo, because Tenshinhan experienced Goku's power himself in their fight as opposed to being a witness against Piccolo, where he had trouble keeping up with Pic's and Goku's speed.
I don't know why you didn't just go with Chi Chi's official battle power of 130.

Dragon Ball Z: I personally believe Ozaru Gohan should be 13,070+
Can't say I have much of a problem with you going against Raditz' official battle power of 1,500 and Nappa's battle power of 4,000, but I'm surprised you stuck with Piccolo at 3,500.
Goku doubles his battle power in normal Kaio-ken. This is stated by the narrator, so there's no need for the 1.5x Kaio-ken.
Dodoria and Zarbon are officially at 22,000 and 23,000 respectively. I don't see the need to change that.

You have base Android Arc Goku at 6,000,000, when he attacks Dr. Gero.. Do you believe that SS Goku(that would be 300,000,000 healthy) was actually decently stronger than SS Vegeta(250,000,000) or is Goku just having a minor rage boost there?
I don't know if it's on purpose, but you didn't list Super Trunks as he was, when he powered up to his limits against Cell unless the colored pic of Super Trunks(920,000,000) is supposed to represent that, which would make it a bit wrong, given that everyone is in agreement Trunks surpassed Cell's power(980,000,000).

I like the idea, that the full 4x multiplier is Goku's full power, that he didn't get to use against Kid Buu. Same with Gotenks, which I initially assumed was a mistake, until I saw the last part of your post.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

Official Power Levels

Spoiler:

Fusion and Potara

Char A and Char B; A > B

Fusion = B x 2 x 15
Potara = (A + B) x 50 (Only Vegetto)

Spoiler:

SSJ1 = Base Form x 50
SSJ2 = SSJ1 X 2
SSJ3 = SSJ2 X 3
SSJ3 Full Power = SSJ2 X 4

I only looked at the Boo arc mostly, and two things:

1. I feel Goten and Trunks are waaay to low. Goten made Gohan flare his aura,sweat, and grit his teeth in a sparring match, and forced him into the air. If Gohan was massively stronger he would've blocked every hit effortlessly.

2. Gotenks is also very low. Goku said Gotenks would be stronger than him and be able to beat Fat Boo, and it was never contradicted. So you could raise the kids or the fusion multiplier or something

[Hugo Boss]

This was before they fought the androids.

The manga seems to imply the opposite. Piccolo wasn't exactly sure.

Spoiler:

Chapter 337 (DBZ 143), P1.3-4, P2.1
Piccolo: “How about it, Son Goku?…Frankly, do you think we can win against this enemy…”
Goku: “There’s no way I could know that without even seeing them. I’ll answer once I give it a try.”
Piccolo: “You’re pretty carefree…It’s not like I lack confidence…However, I can’t clear this uneasy premonition from my mind…”

Also Trunks went from below Yardrat Goku to being grouped with Android arc Vegeta. Ridiculous to say he didn't change at all.

I'm not saying he didn't power-up, but none said he had any noticeable difference.

Spoiler:

Chapter: 355 (DBZ 161), P8.3-4
Tenshinhan: “Th-this is the man who took down Freeza…And he was helpless before these androids…I’ll be frank…! No matter how strong Goku may be, he shouldn’t be that different from Trunks or Vegeta…”

Chapter: 356 (DBZ 162), P3.1
God: “Things turned out this way against the androids…Even for that ‘Trunks’ boy who came from the future and instantly obliterated Freeza and his father…and even for Vegeta, whose abilities are even greater than Trunks…”

Boo has regeneration and infinite stamina.

These sure are neat skills, but how they should lead one to think it's impossible to beat Boo on equal terms? Weren't Goku and Gotenks pretty much equal to the respective Boos they have fought?

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

The manga seems to imply the opposite. Piccolo wasn't exactly sure.

He just blatantly said he doesn't lack confidence.

These sure are neat skills, but how they should lead one to think it's impossible to beat Boo on equal terms? Weren't Goku and Gotenks pretty much equal to the respective Boos they have fought?

Yeah, and both of them failed to finish Boo off.

[Hugo Boss]

He just blatantly said he doesn't lack confidence.

Basically, I think he is saying it's not like he knows he can't beat a cyborg, but it is also that he is not sure he can.

Yeah, and both of them failed to finish Boo off.

Just because they failed it doesn't mean it is impossible. Both were confident they could accomplish the task, but they both had temporarily powers.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

Basically, I think he is saying it's not like he knows he can't beat a cyborg, but it is also that he is not sure he can.

Or he's just saying he's confident he's strong enough to take them on but is worried about something else. It could just be foreshadowing.

Just because they failed it doesn't mean it is impossible. Both were confident they could accomplish the task, but they both had temporarily powers

It's pretty much almost impossible. Boo never runs out of energy, while the person fighting him does, and you can't hurt Boo, while he can hurt you. And whatever you hit him with he'll just regenerate whatever he's missing.

Not flat out impossible but quite the uphill battle

[ZombieVito]

Official Power Levels

Spoiler:

Fusion and Potara

Char A and Char B; A > B

Fusion = B x 2 x 15
Potara = (A + B) x 50 (Only Vegetto)

Spoiler:

SSJ1 = Base Form x 50
SSJ2 = SSJ1 X 2
SSJ3 = SSJ2 X 3
SSJ3 Full Power = SSJ2 X 4

While I disagree with almost everything I have to give you credit for the format. That's some nice way to present them.

[RandomGuy96]

I'm in the same boat as Zombie. That's a great format. But the actual numbers... eh...

So, I'm bringing up that old "SS or SS2" debate again, because I think there's been another nail in the coffin. I've heard other people claiming this, but I can't verify it for myself at the moment. Did the Kai edit of the anime really add sparks to Gohan while he was lifting the Z-sword, and possibly elsewhere?

-Android arc Piccolo is too low, he should be > Yardrat Goku. He was confident in taking on a power that he thought could slaughter Mecha arc Trunks.

-You have a huge gap between Goten/Gohan. I couldn't see Gohan effortlessly stomping him, and no way he would struggle if Goten was like 55% of Gohan. 85% of Gohan and up is appropriate.

-Still disagree with the Goku/Fat Boo gap, but agree to disagree I guess.

-I think pre-RoSaT Gotenks should have more than 1.28x Fat Boo, maybe like 1.4x. It's impossible to beat Boo at equal levels and for Goku/Piccolo to be confident in Gotenks' power, he should have a noticeable lead.

-Gohan-Boo < SSJ 3 Gogeta ?

-It seems unnecessary to have base Vegetto 2x Gohan-Boo, I don't see a reason for him to transform if he can already stomp Boo in base.

-Since Piccolo never actually says he's confident in taking on that power in the manga, and in fact he acts the exact opposite of confident when it comes time to actually fight the androids, I don't buy that he has to be stronger than Yardrat Goku. Or even Freeza.

-Perhaps. As long as it's less than x2 I don't care much about specifics. I'll consider changing it, though I probably wouldn't go any higher than 75%.

-That mostly comes from Goku tanking Fat Buu's punch to the face. As well as the implication of Fat Buu's energy meter.

-He very nearly killed Super Buu, and not only was the gap in that case less than the SS Gotenks/Fat Buu gap (x1.20 vs x1.28), he also had the disadvantage of fighting a crafty opponent in a form that completely drains stamina. Against Fat Buu as a MSS with a huge edge, I don't see a reason why Gotenks couldn't beat him like Goku said.

-That's just how it scaled for me. I tend not to care much about specific percentages as long as it ends up in a certain range. My range for SS3 Gogeta is anywhere between 80% and 110% of Buuhan. Even at a slight power advantage, Buu could still beat SS3 Gogeta with relative ease thanks to his huge variety of advantages, mainly his stamina.

-Notice how I didn't actually list base Vegetto? SS Vegetto scaled to that level because of the Potara formula I use, but I'm not sure if the proportional difference between base and SS in Potara should be the same as the proportional difference between base and SS in Fusion. I'm assuming not, and that's actually more like a x5 boost or something.

[dbgtFO]

So, I'm bringing up that old "SS or SS2" debate again, because I think there's been another nail in the coffin. I've heard other people claiming this, but I can't verify it for myself at the moment. Did the Kai edit of the anime really add sparks to Gohan while he was lifting the Z-sword, and possibly elsewhere?

I'm pretty sure the sparks were present in the original Z.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

Spoiler:

Multipliers
Super Saiyan = 50x base
---Super Saiyan 2 = 5x Super Saiyan
---Super Saiyan 3 = 10x Super Saiyan 2

2nd Grade Super Saiyan = 2x Super Saiyan
---3rd Grade Super Saiyan = 4.5x Super Saiyan


-Goku vs. Freeza-
Goku
~Base - 3,000,000
~Super Saiyan - 150,000,000

Freeza
~Full Power - 135,000,000


-Arrival of Trunks-
Mecha Freeza
~70% Power - 112,000,000
~unseen 100% Power - 160,000,000

King Cold
~Full Power - 115,000,000

Future Trunks
~Base - 4,000,000
~Super Saiyan - 200,000,000

Son Goku
~Base - 4,600,000
~Super Saiyan - 230,000,000

Vegeta
~Base - 3,200,000

Piccolo
~Full Power - 3,300,000

Son Gohan
~Base - 1,500,000


-Arrival of the Androids-
Son Goku
~Base - 7,500,000
~Super Saiyan - 375,000,000
~Sick - 250,000,000

Piccolo
~Full Power - 325,000,000

Son Gohan
~Base - 5,000,000

Yamcha
~Full Power - 30,000

Tenshinhan
~Full Power - 90,000

Kuririn
~Full Power - 1,800,000

Android 19
~initial - 205,000,000
~post-ki absorption - 275,000,000

Vegeta
~Base - 8,000,000
~Super Saiyan - 400,000,000

Android 20
~Initial - 205,000,000
~post-ki absorption - 290,000,000

Future Trunks
~Base - 7,000,000
~Super Saiyan - 350,000,000

Android 17
~Full Power - 625,000,000

Android 18
~Full Power - 540,000,000

Piccolo
~Post-Kami fusion - 650,000,000
~weighted - 530,000,000

Cell
~1st form - initial appearance - 450,000,000
~post-Human absorbtion - 2,300,000,000
~Second form [initial suppresion] - 7,000,000,000

Android 16
~Full Power - 2,300,000,000

-Race against time-
Vegeta
~Base, post-Room of Spirit and Time - 125,000,000
~Super Saiyan - 6,250,000,000
~2nd Grade Super Saiyan - 12,500,000,000

Future Trunks
~Base, post-Room of Spirit and Time - 120,000,000
~Super Saiyan - 6,000,000,000
~2nd Grade Super Saiyan - 12,000,000,000
~3rd Grade Super Saiyan - 27,000,000,000

Cell
~2nd form, Full Power - 9,000,000,000
~Perfect, Warm-up - 20,000,000,000


-The Cell Games-
Son Goku
~Base - 1,200,000,000
~Super Saiyan - 60,000,000,000
~50% power - 30,000,000,000

Vegeta
~Base - 900,000,000
~Super Saiyan - 45,000,000,000

Future Trunks
~Base - 880,000,000
~Super Saiyan - 44,000,000,000

Piccolo
~Full Power - 8,000,000,000

Son Gohan
~Base - 1,700,000,000
~Super Saiyan - 85,000,000,000
~Super Saiyan 2 - 425,000,000,000

Cell
~Full Power - 265,000,000,000
~vs. Goku - 75,000,000,000
~Super Perfect - 400,000,000,000

Cell Junior
~Full Power - 47,000,000,000


-Tenkaichi through Bobbidi-
Son Goku
~Base - 1,800,000,000
~Super Saiyan - 90,000,000,000
~Super Saiyan 2 - 450,000,000,000
~Super Saiyan 3 - 4,500,000,000,000

Vegeta
~Base - 1,400,000,000
~Super Saiyan - 70,000,000,000
~Super Saiyan 2 - 350,000,000,000
~Majin Vegeta - 450,000,000,000

Son Gohan
~Base - 1,200,000,000
~Super Saiyan - 60,000,000,000
~Super Saiyan 2 - 300,000,000,000

Son Goten
~Base - 1,000,000,000
~Super Saiyan - 50,000,000,000

Trunks
~Base - 1,100,000,000
~Super Saiyan - 55,000,000,000

Piccolo
~Full Power - 9,000,000,000

Kaioshin
~Full Power - 350,000,000

Kibito
~Full Power - 200,000,000

Dabra
~Full Power - 60,000,000,000

Majin Boo
~Full Power - 3,600,000,000,000


-Fusion-
Son Gohan
~Base, post-Zeta sword training - 70,000,000,000
~Super Saiyan - 3,500,000,000,000
~Ultimate - 130,000,000,000,000,000

Gotenks [pre]
~Base - 530,000,000,000
~Super Saiyan - 26,500,000,000,000

Gotenks [post]
~Base - 40,000,000,000,000
~Super Saiyan - 2,000,000,000,000,000
~Super Saiyan 3 - 100,000,000,000,000,000

Evil Boo
~Full Power - 85,000,000,000,000,000
~Gotenks absorbed - 185,000,000,000,000,000
~Gohan absorbed - 215,000,000,000,000

Vegetto
~Base - 7,000,000,000,000,000
~Super Saiyan - 350,000,000,000,000,000


-10 years later-
Son Goku
~Base - 4,500,000,000,000
~Super Saiyan 3 - 11,250,000,000,000,000

Son Gohan
~Ultimate - 130,000,000,000,000,000

Vegeta
~Base - 4,500,000,000,000

Oob
~Enraged - 4,500,000,000,000

[DBZGTKOSDH]

So, I'm bringing up that old "SS or SS2" debate again, because I think there's been another nail in the coffin. I've heard other people claiming this, but I can't verify it for myself at the moment. Did the Kai edit of the anime really add sparks to Gohan while he was lifting the Z-sword, and possibly elsewhere?

I'm pretty sure the sparks were present in the original Z.

Just checked, they are in Z as well.

[Kaboom]

Toei always did whatever the heck they wanted with the sparks and other like special effects anyway. Apparently nobody had the foresight to look and say, "hey, Toriyama's drawing these Super Saiyan forms each in a pretty uniform and easily identifiable way. Maybe WE should try to preserve that same consistency."

[KentalSSJ6]

Out of curiosity, where do people here put GT Pan?

[Hugo Boss]

Out of curiosity, where do people here put GT Pan?

Super No.17 Arc

• Stronger than Dr. Gero. I generally have Pan, [base] Goten and [base] Trunks bearing [Pre-RoSaT] Super Saiyan's level. At least, [base] Trunks barely escaped from No.17, who was about as strong as [base] Vegeta.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

Out of curiosity, where do people here put GT Pan?

Above Gohan-Buu for most of GT

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Out of curiosity, where do people here put GT Pan?

Above Gohan-Buu for most of GT

WHAT?!

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

Maybe not most, but a good amount of the later portion.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Maybe not most, but a good amount of the later portion.

What makes you think that?

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

Her knocking down Rild (wasn't a surprise attack) who's stronger than Gohan-Buu (imo). Her being useful enough to give energy to SSJ 4 Goku, her tooling around someone who was giving Goku trouble etc. She also has a lot of other feats. And it's GT, so everyone is at least much stronger than Good Buu by virtue of being in that show.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Her knocking down Rild (wasn't a surprise attack) who's stronger than Gohan-Buu (imo). Her being useful enough to give energy to SSJ 4 Goku, her tooling around someone who was giving Goku trouble etc. She also has a lot of other feats. And it's GT, so everyone is at least much stronger than Good Buu by virtue of being in that show.

It wasn't a surprise attack, but Rild let her hit him, and underestimated. It turned out that she didn't do any damage to him at all.

What other feats does she have that place her above Boo?