Canon Saiyan Transformations Tree

[Xeztin]

I'm a bit confused here. What exactly are you basing "Super Saiyan 2: Furious" on? I missed most of the Future Trunks arc (I've got VRV so I plan to catch up) so all I really know of is Super Saiyan 2: Strengthened http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Streng ... r_Saiyan_2 Super Saiyan Rage http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Super_Saiyan_Rage and Quake of Fury http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Quake_of_Fury.

I need to understand how substantial and meaningful this form is because I'm looking into making a chart of my own showing who has achieved what forms. I know there's already a chart like that, but from what I saw, it was incomplete as it ignores Super.

I believe Furious is Quake of Fury referring to Vegeta in BoG surpassing SSJ 3 by far, while Strengthened SSJ2 that Trunks has was on par with SSJ3 in the manga.

Hmm... So let me get this straight then:

BOG:

SS2 Vegeta = SS2 Goku
SS2 Fury Vegeta > SS3 Goku

Future Trunks arc:

SS2 Trunks =OR> SS2 Goku
SS2 Strengthened Trunks = SS3 Goku

As such:

SS2 Fury > SS2 Strengthened

Am I reading it correctly?

Essentially, they're the SS2 equivalent of SS Grade 2 and SS Grade 3?

Yeah! looks rigt to me, I'd just look at SS2 Strengthened as grade 2 and SS2 Fury as grade 3. I think I'd consider SS Rage Grade 4 of Super Saiyan 2 but it could also be its very own form as it's the most "Mad" out of the 3. Vegeta seems to be able to use fury at will in the manga as well.

SS2 Strengthened is a replacement for SSJ3 and Fury and Rage go beyond it.

[cheddarsword]

I believe Furious is Quake of Fury referring to Vegeta in BoG surpassing SSJ 3 by far, while Strengthened SSJ2 that Trunks has was on par with SSJ3 in the manga.

Hmm... So let me get this straight then:

BOG:

SS2 Vegeta = SS2 Goku
SS2 Fury Vegeta > SS3 Goku

Future Trunks arc:

SS2 Trunks =OR> SS2 Goku
SS2 Strengthened Trunks = SS3 Goku

As such:

SS2 Fury > SS2 Strengthened

Am I reading it correctly?

Essentially, they're the SS2 equivalent of SS Grade 2 and SS Grade 3?

Yeah! looks rigt to me, I'd just look at SS2 Strengthened as grade 2 and SS2 Fury as grade 3. I think I'd consider SS Rage Grade 4 of Super Saiyan 2 but it could also be its very own form as it's the most "Mad" out of the 3. Vegeta seems to be able to use fury at will in the manga as well.

SS2 Strengthened is a replacement for SSJ3 and Fury and Rage go beyond it.

Yep that's what I figured. At first I thought SS2 Fury was a form Trunks had. I Really need to catch up on old episodes of Super.

What's interesting though is that SS1 grades get less angry as they go (ultra being an exception) while SS2 grades get MORE angry!

Thanks for helping me clear this up.

[Marlowe89]

I look at as what the namesake has for us, Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan. I always took this as Super Saiyan God transforming into a Super Saiyan. I look at SSG as a base with God Ki and SSJB a SSJ form with God Ki. The base or SSG probably isn't needed to go Super Saiyan Blue but it is still a predecessor to the form.

That's not what the namesake means though. "Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan" is simply a shorthand version of "Super Saiyan of a Saiyan with the power of Super Saiyan God", a way of saying that Goku obtained the strength of Super Saiyan God to use in base via power absorption, then transformed into a Super Saiyan. In the manga's case, it's Goku's ordinary Super Saiyan form significantly powered up beyond Super Saiyan God's power, as Zamasu implied.

Moreover, the notion that Super Saiyan God is a "base form" makes very little sense. It's a transformation that alters right much of Goku's appearance (namely the thinner physique, added pupils, etc.) and the only thing it truly shares in common with Goku's base is the similar hairstyle, which has occurred before for Super Saiyan transformations such as kid Gohan for example.

[ChiefWamsutta]

I suppose my only qualm with this chart is the line drawn from Super Saiyan God to Super Saiyan Blue. I understand that the method to achieving Blue usually requires some kind of exposure to SSG or its power, but there still isn't a direct connection between the two forms per se.

Otherwise I don't see anything I'd consider outright disagreeable. Good work.

I'm so sorry. I did not see these numerous comments on my thread. Thank you for posting.

I placed the arrow from Super Saiyan God to Super Saiyan Blue because, in my opinion, SSG is the godly version of Base, just like SSB is the godly version of SS1. One should be able to transform into it from Super Saiyan God.

I also placed Semi-merged Super Saiyan God to accurately depict the yellow-haired form at that power level that happened once. Then the Merged Super Saiyan God was what Goku used to defeat the sun ball and against Frieza in RoF (it doesn't really matter if we never see this again).

Hmm... So let me get this straight then:

BOG:

SS2 Vegeta = SS2 Goku
SS2 Fury Vegeta > SS3 Goku

Future Trunks arc:

SS2 Trunks =OR> SS2 Goku
SS2 Strengthened Trunks = SS3 Goku

As such:

SS2 Fury > SS2 Strengthened

Am I reading it correctly?

Essentially, they're the SS2 equivalent of SS Grade 2 and SS Grade 3?

Yeah! looks rigt to me, I'd just look at SS2 Strengthened as grade 2 and SS2 Fury as grade 3. I think I'd consider SS Rage Grade 4 of Super Saiyan 2 but it could also be its very own form as it's the most "Mad" out of the 3. Vegeta seems to be able to use fury at will in the manga as well.

SS2 Strengthened is a replacement for SSJ3 and Fury and Rage go beyond it.

Yep that's what I figured. At first I thought SS2 Fury was a form Trunks had. I Really need to catch up on old episodes of Super.

What's interesting though is that SS1 grades get less angry as they go (ultra being an exception) while SS2 grades get MORE angry!

Thanks for helping me clear this up.

Yep, this is all what I believe and took into account when creating this graphic. In DBZ, we had SS1 Grades 1 - 4, SS2, and SS3. It was not until DBS that we learned of SS2 Strengthened (SS2 Grade 2), SS2 Furious (SS2 Grade 3/My Bulma), and SSRage (SS2 Grade 4). I think they go well with Super Saiyan 2, as they tap into the anger aspect of SS2. SS2 Grade 2 does replace SS3 since it is as powerful. SS3 came out of nowhere and it makes sense that it was a fluke. SS2 Furious goes beyond it and SSRage goes beyond that.

[cheddarsword]

Yep, this is all what I believe and took into account when creating this graphic. In DBZ, we had SS1 Grades 1 - 4, SS2, and SS3. It was not until DBS that we learned of SS2 Strengthened (SS2 Grade 2), SS2 Furious (SS2 Grade 3/My Bulma), and SSRage (SS2 Grade 4). I think they go well with Super Saiyan 2, as they tap into the anger aspect of SS2. SS2 Grade 2 does replace SS3 since it is as powerful. SS3 came out of nowhere and it makes sense that it was a fluke. SS2 Furious goes beyond it and SSRage goes beyond that.

Goes to show you really did your homework for this and i applaud that. Apparently, so does Google Image Search. I had entered the terms "super saiyan chart" because i was attempting to find a good layout for my project when I happened to see your image in the mix!

I Know it's a tree, but it also works as a sort of "Super Saiyan flowchart" as well.

[Marlowe89]

I placed the arrow from Super Saiyan God to Super Saiyan Blue because, in my opinion, SSG is the godly version of Base, just like SSB is the godly version of SS1. One should be able to transform into it from Super Saiyan God.

I suppose you're entitled to that opinion, although the reasoning still strikes me as odd -- after all, Super Saiyan Blue has much more in common with Super Saiyan (being an identical form, and literally just being the result of a base Saiyan with SSG's power going Super Saiyan) than Super Saiyan God has in common with base (being a legendary transformation that actually provides as many alterations to Goku's appearance as some of the ordinary Super Saiyan forms). Your "Merged Super Saiyan God" form is really what I'd call the godly version of base, but I digress at this point; it's your chart.

It is interesting to note that Goku transformed into Super Saiyan Blue from Super Saiyan God in the manga, even noting it to be a level above God -- but he also did the same thing with Super Saiyan God and Super Saiyan 3 while sparring against Future Trunks. It wouldn't surprise me if Toyotaro considered them all to be of the same line, actually.

[cheddarsword]

I placed the arrow from Super Saiyan God to Super Saiyan Blue because, in my opinion, SSG is the godly version of Base, just like SSB is the godly version of SS1. One should be able to transform into it from Super Saiyan God.

I suppose you're entitled to that opinion, although the reasoning still strikes me as odd -- after all, Super Saiyan Blue has much more in common with Super Saiyan (being an identical form, and literally just being the result of a base Saiyan with SSG's power going Super Saiyan) than Super Saiyan God has in common with base (being a legendary transformation that actually provides as many alterations to Goku's appearance as some of the ordinary Super Saiyan forms). Your "Merged Super Saiyan God" form is really what I'd call the godly version of base, but I digress at this point; it's your chart.

It is interesting to note that Goku transformed into Super Saiyan Blue from Super Saiyan God in the manga, even noting it to be a level above God -- but he also did the same thing with Super Saiyan God and Super Saiyan 3 while sparring against Future Trunks. It wouldn't surprise me if Toyotaro considered them all to be of the same line, actually.

Don't forget about Saiyan Beyond God though. *runs*

[ChiefWamsutta]

I placed the arrow from Super Saiyan God to Super Saiyan Blue because, in my opinion, SSG is the godly version of Base, just like SSB is the godly version of SS1. One should be able to transform into it from Super Saiyan God.

Don't forget about Saiyan Beyond God though. *runs*

Ahhhh, so I might have not made myself clear. Forgive me. Merged Super Saiyan God in the chart IS what we would consider Saiyan Beyond God.

[cheddarsword]

I placed the arrow from Super Saiyan God to Super Saiyan Blue because, in my opinion, SSG is the godly version of Base, just like SSB is the godly version of SS1. One should be able to transform into it from Super Saiyan God.

Don't forget about Saiyan Beyond God though. *runs*

Ahhhh, so I might have not made myself clear. Forgive me. Merged Super Saiyan God in the chart IS what we would consider Saiyan Beyond God.

Makes sense.

Actually, if you're going for all known forms, there's one that's shown only in the Super manga. Not sure how canon it is considering it's not shown in the anime. Completed Super Saiyan Blue. Perhaps you omitted it intentionally?

http://dragonballuniverse.wikia.com/wik ... aiyan_Blue
http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Comple ... aiyan_Blue

[ChiefWamsutta]

Don't forget about Saiyan Beyond God though. *runs*

Ahhhh, so I might have not made myself clear. Forgive me. Merged Super Saiyan God in the chart IS what we would consider Saiyan Beyond God.

Makes sense.

Actually, if you're going for all known forms, there's one that's shown only in the Super manga. Not sure how canon it is considering it's not shown in the anime. Completed Super Saiyan Blue. Perhaps you omitted it intentionally?

http://dragonballuniverse.wikia.com/wik ... aiyan_Blue
http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Comple ... aiyan_Blue

I actually added it here, along with Majin Super Saiyan 1 Full Power and Majin Super Saiyan 2. I also changed the name of Legendary Super Saiyan to Super Saiyan Berserker.

URL for reference: http://orig12.deviantart.net/0e25/f/201 ... be8r7a.jpg

[cheddarsword]

Ahhhh, so I might have not made myself clear. Forgive me. Merged Super Saiyan God in the chart IS what we would consider Saiyan Beyond God.

Makes sense.

Actually, if you're going for all known forms, there's one that's shown only in the Super manga. Not sure how canon it is considering it's not shown in the anime. Completed Super Saiyan Blue. Perhaps you omitted it intentionally?

http://dragonballuniverse.wikia.com/wik ... aiyan_Blue
http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Comple ... aiyan_Blue

I actually added it here, along with Majin Super Saiyan 1 Full Power and Majin Super Saiyan 2. I also changed the name of Legendary Super Saiyan to Super Saiyan Berserker.

URL for reference: http://orig12.deviantart.net/0e25/f/201 ... be8r7a.jpg

Oh right, I forgot you added that in the first updated image.

[mute_proxy]

Legendary isn't canon, and Kale didn't make it so. Her form is called "Berserker". Strengthened, Furious, Merged, Semi merged SSGod, Completed Blue and Majin SSJ isnt a thing either nor is Saiyan beyond god. KaioKen isn't a transformation but a technique. Not very canon this canon tree is

This is the canon tree:
[spoiler][/spoiler]

[ekrolo2]

Legendary isn't canon, and Kale didn't make it so. Her form is called "Berserker". Strengthened, Furious, Merged, Semi merged SSGod, Completed Blue and Majin SSJ isnt a thing either nor is Saiyan beyond god. KaioKen isn't a transformation but a technique. Not very canon this canon tree is

I think he's trying to encapsulate everything Super is doing with transformations instead of focusing just on the anime or the manga. Also, Majin + regular SS does exist, that's what Vegeta has before using SS2 and Majin to fight Goku's SS2.

[mute_proxy]

Legendary isn't canon, and Kale didn't make it so. Her form is called "Berserker". Strengthened, Furious, Merged, Semi merged SSGod, Completed Blue and Majin SSJ isnt a thing either nor is Saiyan beyond god. KaioKen isn't a transformation but a technique. Not very canon this canon tree is

I think he's trying to encapsulate everything Super is doing with transformations instead of focusing just on the anime or the manga. Also, Majin + regular SS does exist, that's what Vegeta has before using SS2 and Majin to fight Goku's SS2.

Majin isn't a transformation it's a possession/mind control, Vegeta was SSJ and SS2 while being possessed/mind controlled. Super isnt doing those things, games like DBHeroes and other sources are. Saiyan beyond god and such were a Heroes thing, and that's not something to go for when talking canonicity

[Xeztin]

Legendary isn't canon, and Kale didn't make it so. Her form is called "Berserker". Strengthened, Furious, Merged, Semi merged SSGod, Completed Blue and Majin SSJ isnt a thing either nor is Saiyan beyond god. KaioKen isn't a transformation but a technique. Not very canon this canon tree is

I think he's trying to encapsulate everything Super is doing with transformations instead of focusing just on the anime or the manga. Also, Majin + regular SS does exist, that's what Vegeta has before using SS2 and Majin to fight Goku's SS2.

If you look at all 3 super continuities, movies, manga, and anime then yes these forms do exist. Legendary/cannon exist, strengthened, and furious exist within the manga and anime. Semi merged exists in all continuities (SSJ with power of SSG), Completed Blue exists in manga, Majin Vegeta went both SSJ1 and 2. Saiyan Beyond God exists in the movie and even has a promotional poster and heroes card calling it that. The original plan was for Goku to have SSG in base and no longer use the golden forms. All things in that diagram have appeared in Super one way or the other. They might all not be officially named but its names to describe things like Vegeta surpassing SSJ3 or Trunks in SSJ2 defeated SSJ3 Goku. Majin seemed to be more powerful than regular SSJ1 and 2, while it may not be a transformation, it is still a power boost worthy of noting from the manga itself.

[mute_proxy]

If you look at all 3 super continuities, movies, manga, and anime then yes these forms do exist. Legendary/cannon exist, strengthened, and furious exist within the manga and anime. Semi merged exists in all continuities (SSJ with power of SSG), Completed Blue exists in manga, Majin Vegeta went both SSJ1 and 2. Saiyan Beyond God exists in the movie and even has a promotional poster and heroes card calling it that. The original plan was for Goku to have SSG in base and no longer use the golden forms. All things in that diagram have appeared in Super one way or the other. They might all not be officially named but its names to describe things like Vegeta surpassing SSJ3 or Trunks in SSJ2 defeated SSJ3 Goku. Majin seemed to be more powerful than regular SSJ1 and 2, while it may not be a transformation, it is still a power boost worthy of noting from the manga itself.

Kale's form is Berserker. Getting angry and using up more power from your SS2 doesnt make it a new transformation, SSJ with power of SSG is SSB, having full control over your Blue form doesnt make it a separate transformation, Majin is a possession not a transformation, Saiyan Beyond God is only a DBHeroes thing, Heroes isn't a source for canonicity. Most of these are extra powerups, not transformations. I thought this was a tansformations tree

[Xeztin]

If you look at all 3 super continuities, movies, manga, and anime then yes these forms do exist. Legendary/cannon exist, strengthened, and furious exist within the manga and anime. Semi merged exists in all continuities (SSJ with power of SSG), Completed Blue exists in manga, Majin Vegeta went both SSJ1 and 2. Saiyan Beyond God exists in the movie and even has a promotional poster and heroes card calling it that. The original plan was for Goku to have SSG in base and no longer use the golden forms. All things in that diagram have appeared in Super one way or the other. They might all not be officially named but its names to describe things like Vegeta surpassing SSJ3 or Trunks in SSJ2 defeated SSJ3 Goku. Majin seemed to be more powerful than regular SSJ1 and 2, while it may not be a transformation, it is still a power boost worthy of noting from the manga itself.

Kale's form is Berserker. Getting angry and using up more power from your SS2 doesnt make it a new transformation, SSJ with power of SSG is SSB, having full control over your Blue form doesnt make it a separate transformation, Majin is a possession not a transformation, Saiyan Beyond God is only a DBHeroes thing, Heroes isn't a source for canonicity. Most of these are extra powerups, not transformations. I thought this was a tansformations tree

In the manga furious and strenghtened have more spikes in hair and more sharper electricity sparks. SSJ with power of SSG is when Goku fights Beerus in SSJ (No name for this really) In manga it was called Goku's evolution for Completed Blue and was called Completed Blue from then on. Saiyan Beyond God is even told of here, suggesting Goku can't go Gold anymore. Anything that changes your appearence or power is a transformation to me though everyone has their own opinions

http://www.shonengamez.com/wp-content/u ... jkYQkH.png

[mute_proxy]

In the manga furious and strenghtened have more spikes in hair and more sharper electricity sparks. SSJ with power of SSG is when Goku fights Beerus in SSJ (No name for this really) In manga it was called Goku's evolution for Completed Blue and was called Completed Blue from then on. Saiyan Beyond God is even told of here, suggesting Goku can't go Gold anymore. Anything that changes your appearence or power is a transformation to me though everyone has their own opinions

http://www.shonengamez.com/wp-content/u ... jkYQkH.png

The hair doesnt have more spikes, the aura is just a lot more intense. "Completed Blue" wasnt called anything, Vegeta said he completed Blue by holding all of it's ki inside his body, it wasn't called anything from then on besides Vegeta again mentioning him holding the ki inside, it's not a new form, it's better control of Blue. Transformation is a change in looks, not just messier hair or an angrier face. Power change is a called a powerup. And you contradicted yourself by posting that pic with the whole SS with God power. "Saiyan beyond god" is nothing more than a Saiyan with the ability to use god ki, not a serparate form.

[Xeztin]

In the manga furious and strenghtened have more spikes in hair and more sharper electricity sparks. SSJ with power of SSG is when Goku fights Beerus in SSJ (No name for this really) In manga it was called Goku's evolution for Completed Blue and was called Completed Blue from then on. Saiyan Beyond God is even told of here, suggesting Goku can't go Gold anymore. Anything that changes your appearence or power is a transformation to me though everyone has their own opinions

http://www.shonengamez.com/wp-content/u ... jkYQkH.png

The hair doesnt have more spikes, the aura is just a lot more intense. "Completed Blue" wasnt called anything, Vegeta said he completed Blue by holding all of it's ki inside his body, it wasn't called anything from then on besides Vegeta again mentioning him holding the ki inside, it's not a new form, it's better control of Blue. Transformation is a change in looks, not just messier hair or an angrier face. Power change is a called a powerup. And you contradicted yourself by posting that pic with the whole SS with God power. "Saiyan beyond god" is nothing more than a Saiyan with the ability to use god ki, not a serparate form.

If they used Saiyan Beyond god in heroes and it makes Goku on par with SSG that makes it a different form or "technique" to me. Though I'd argue that SSJ 1 and 2 aren't that different other than messier hair and sparks but they are still classified as different forms. Though like I said everyone has their own opinions
Significant power ups and a small change in looks/aura is a form for me though.

[mute_proxy]

If they used Saiyan Beyond god in heroes and it makes Goku on par with SSG that makes it a different form or "technique" to me. Though I'd argue that SSJ 1 and 2 aren't that different other than messier hair and sparks but they are still classified as different forms. Though like I said everyone has their own opinions
Significant power ups and a small change in looks/aura is a form for me though.

They used SS4 Broly and SS3 Vegeta in Heroes too