Unpopular DB opinions

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Unpopular DB opinions

Postby Piccolo Daimao » Sun Apr 22, 2012 11:15 am

Does anyone have any particularly unpopular opinions about Dragon Ball? I'll start off.

I actually liked DBZ Movie #11, which seems to be looked down upon unfavourably as the worst DBZ movie. Out of the 13 DBZ movies, it's my fifth favourite. Despite the fact that people dislike it for bringing back Broli yet again for a third movie appearance, Bio-Broli didn't appear to have any semblance of the previous Legendary Super Saiyan, so the only relation that you could argue between the two characters was the name.

It did have quite a B-movie plot, but I like seeing stuff like that intertwined with the DB world, giving it new twists from the characters and techniques (like how Trunks' story in the Cell arc was practically a Terminator rip-off, but took it further by adding a special DB touch, including the Androids and Cell). And at least the admittedly disappointing finale was better than yet another Genki-Dama (seriously, three movies used that finisher, and I'm not even counting #7) or the Toei Punch.

Furthermore, there was no Gokuu, Gohan, Vegeta or Piccolo here; it gave the underdogs, Goten, Gohan, Kuririn, #18 and Mr. Satan the spotlight for once. I also liked the simplistic yet somewhat amusing designs of the Bio-Warriors.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Postby Insertclevername » Sun Apr 22, 2012 11:30 am

^ Maybe I'll give that movie a second chance since you did bring up some good points.

I'd say a rather unpopular opinion of mine would be my liking of SSJ4. While a lot of people shun it, like most GT things, I felt that it brought a sense of freshness to the whole transformation concept, just wish it wasn't a "SSJ" and was called something new. ...I mean really, how can you work off SSJ3 anyway...

Also I guess I don't like Broli, which I see a lot of people do. He just was never a character I got into nor thought was interesting and threatening. He just seemed like the epitome of DBZ stereotypes and to be honest, was extremely generic.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Postby Piccolo Daimao » Sun Apr 22, 2012 11:46 am

Insertclevername wrote:Also I guess I don't like Broli, which I see a lot of people do. He just was never a character I got into nor thought was interesting and threatening. He just seemed like the epitome of DBZ stereotypes and to be honest, was extremely generic.


At least here, most people don't like Broli. But to be honest, he wasn't any worse than any of the other movie villains; people mainly took notice of and dislike him because of the fans constantly sucking his dick and saying how he's much stronger than Super Saiyan 4 Vegetto.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Postby OzzyApu » Sun Apr 22, 2012 11:54 am

When I saw Bio-Broli, I also didn't think it was abhorrent. I actually find the first Cooler movie to be worse, but even Bio-Broli is bad. Felt like a really bad sci-fi movie, though somewhat entertaining when trying to block out its ties to the series. Showed that not every movie needed Goku, some kill-move, or faith to win the battle. Broli himself is a bad character anyway, and seeing him in three movies stretched out like it was felt exhausting. You didn't even need him in Bio-Broli.

I don't know if I'd call this unpopular, but I absolutely hated the Penguin Village scenes in Dragon Ball. I hate it so much that I extend the hatred to Dr. Slump in general. When I first saw that crap in DB, I felt uneasy the entire time seeing these retarded characters somehow exist when they shouldn't have. I think it was Toriyama getting carried away with how awesome his previous work was, when in reality it sucks. Keep that garbage to its own devices, and leave it out of Dragon Ball, I say. The General Blue saga was awesome without it, and then they ham the whole thing by going to this dumb town to do stupid things with the worst characters in DB. I ALWAYS skip these episodes when I watch DB.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Postby Gaffer Tape » Sun Apr 22, 2012 11:54 am

I agree with Piccolo Daimao: I quite enjoy Movie 11. Actually, I like both 10 and 11. It's 8 I have a hard time sitting through. But, yeah, I like it for the same reasons you do, particularly the use of characters. Mr. Satan definitely shines in that one, and having Kuririn play babysitter is hilarious. More stories/movies should have taken advantage of different combinations of characters rather than just staying true to the tired old formula.

I suppose my unpopular opinion is just my largely negative opinion of Vegeta post-Freeza arc as well as my use of the name Blooma. There's also something else that will be coming up in my next Dragon Ball Dissection that I have a feeling will prove to be unpopular. :wink:
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Postby Insertclevername » Sun Apr 22, 2012 12:17 pm

Piccolo Daimao wrote:
Insertclevername wrote:Also I guess I don't like Broli, which I see a lot of people do. He just was never a character I got into nor thought was interesting and threatening. He just seemed like the epitome of DBZ stereotypes and to be honest, was extremely generic.


At least here, most people don't like Broli. But to be honest, he wasn't any worse than any of the other movie villains; people mainly took notice of and dislike him because of the fans constantly sucking his dick and saying how he's much stronger than Super Saiyan 4 Vegetto.


Yeah that's probably why I hate him so much, for the other movie villains I felt that they had a charm to them was interesting, with that mostly being aesthetic.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Postby BlazingFiddlesticks » Sun Apr 22, 2012 1:33 pm

Did like Bio Broly for bringing back World's Strongest's creepy, wacky sci-fi elements and for giving us a movie without the three big Sayains. It just felt cheap at the end because Broly was only brought in to give the movie an antagonist.

As for Broly originally, I actually like him for his embodying the stereotypes because he examines the Sayain's in their worst possible light; Broly is basically what happens when you take every trait of the sayains that can exaggerated and twisted into, well, a monster- and then do it in an official capacity. I thinking the sheer scare factor of Broly really isn't represented that well- or it might not exist at all, and my take is a different thing entirely.

Interesting thing I've always taken from Goku versus Freeza; I liked to think that the fight left an impression. That it was the final push Goku needed to turn into what's ultimately the more serious Goku we saw for the rest of Z. For one, it make Goku's getting so worked up about the bird in Cooler's Revenge actually make sense, since if Freeza is the first time Goku really understood he was fighting someone with no respect for anything but himself and no sense of honor because he was above any such thing by virtue of his strength, seeing his sibling come out of nowhere and threatening his son and friends like he owns the place is going to get a violent reaction.

Obviously, Piccolo Daimao started the process, and I don't count Vegeta as that turning point because Goku still humored the idea "Oh, I want to fight this guy again! Let's disregard his being a homicidal maniac!", however briefly. If anything realizing how stupid a move that was eased him into the later life-and-death battles.

Gaffer Tape wrote:I suppose my unpopular opinion is just my largely negative opinion of Vegeta post-Freeza arc as well as my use of the name Blooma.


I was definitely a bit suspicious when I heard you were running the Vegeta deconstruction podcast. Turned out going places I never expected.

Gaffer Tape wrote:There's also something else that will be coming up in my next Dragon Ball Dissection that I have a feeling will prove to be unpopular. :wink:


And now I'm waiting to see how much emotion the 21st Budokai can actually get out of most people.
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Just like Dragon Ball since Chapter #4.


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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Postby Piccolo Daimao » Sun Apr 22, 2012 1:45 pm

Gaffer Tape wrote:I agree with Piccolo Daimao: I quite enjoy Movie 11. Actually, I like both 10 and 11. It's 8 I have a hard time sitting through. But, yeah, I like it for the same reasons you do, particularly the use of characters. Mr. Satan definitely shines in that one, and having Kuririn play babysitter is hilarious. More stories/movies should have taken advantage of different combinations of characters rather than just staying true to the tired old formula.

I suppose my unpopular opinion is just my largely negative opinion of Vegeta post-Freeza arc as well as my use of the name Blooma. There's also something else that will be coming up in my next Dragon Ball Dissection that I have a feeling will prove to be unpopular. :wink:


I think that DBZ Movie #8 actually started out pretty good (and for once, the characters went straight to SS rather than fucking around in base), with its plot, this "New Vegeta", and the mystery surrounding the Legendary Super Saiyan and Broli's character, but then it just took a dive as the fight dragged on and mainly consisted of Broli's extremely one-sided beatdown on the cast. There are only so many times a clothesline to the wall can be entertaining.

Oh, and the Toei Punch. What the fuck was that? He might as well have spontaneously combusted, if just to end the film.

I don't particularly like Vegeta post-Freeza either. I mean, his arc was pretty much concluded; we didn't need him hanging around on Earth (let alone Bulma housing him at Capsule Corporation...I mean, what the fuck?) with practically nothing to do, moaning half the time like a pussy-bitch about being the Prince of the Saiyans and his desire to fuck Gokuu in the ass, and largely getting in the heroes' way when he threw all sense of strategy that made him such an enjoyable character in the Freeza arc out of the window.

And you know, I'd been thinking about using "Blooma" to, since I looked at the reasons for using it and found that I agreed with pretty much most of them, but I always end up using "Bulma" out of habit anyway. Darn. :x

---

Oh, I forgot this one. I always found the first arc of DB to be pretty dull, especially in comparison to the following arcs, and I rarely ever read the first two manga volumes anymore. But I understand that it was early days and didn't hit its stride until around the 21st Tenkaichi Budoukai. Then, by the 22nd Tenkaichi Budoukai, shit got real (for lack of a better phrase).
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Postby Hellspawn28 » Sun Apr 22, 2012 1:46 pm

I liked Movie 5 and I personally didn't care for Movie 7. Super 13 had a cool design but he was nothing special to me. I didn't care for #14 and #15 in the movie neither and by Movie 7 that it seem every villain was going to get killed by the genki dama. With Movie 8, it was finally nice to see someone not getting killed by the same plot device again.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Postby Pokewhiz7 » Sun Apr 22, 2012 1:59 pm

I actually like many parts of GT. I haven't seen it all yet, because my DVD keeps freezing, but so far, I'm about halfway through the Baby fight, and I found it interesting, especially a lot of the parts on Earth.

Gaffer Tape wrote:There's also something else that will be coming up in my next Dragon Ball Dissection that I have a feeling will prove to be unpopular. :wink:

I'm going to take a shot in the dark and guess...Kurilin? :wink:

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Postby Hellspawn28 » Sun Apr 22, 2012 2:13 pm

Speaking of Movie 11, I really did not like it since the movie feel lazy since they had to bring back Broly back for the 3rd time instead of making a new original villain instead. It was nice that Goku did not play the main part but I still found the movie to be mediocre. Not to mention when Bio Broly was turn into stone from water was one of the worst plot devices that I've ever seen in the series.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Postby Piccolo Daimao » Sun Apr 22, 2012 2:58 pm

For reference point, here's how I rank the DBZ movies.

1. DBZ Movie #12: Entertaining exploration into Hell, nice blend of action and comedy, Janenba (at least, his first form; his transformed state is pretty generic), the awesomeness of Gogeta, the heroes fighting off dead guys on Earth, those little scenes of some dead people appearing before their loved ones.

2. DBZ Movie #13: Tapion and Hoi are pretty cool characters (especially the former), great plot, and (sorry, gonna steal a paraphrased quote from you, Hellspawn28), DB gets its very own Daikaiju. Oh, and Dragon Fist.

3. DBZ Movie #1: Throwback to predominantly mystical theme of DB, nicely choreographed fight sequences, the God of Earth fighting (in his own body this time).

4. DBZ Movie #9: The Tenkaichi Dai-Budoukai, Mr. Satan being...Mr. Satan, Trunks and Tenshinhan's brief but enjoyable fight, Bojack and co.'s designs.

5. DBZ Movie #11: I've already explained at the beginning of this thread.

6. DBZ Movie #10: teenage Gohan gets a chance to shine, Goten and Trunks' fight with Broli (like it's Trunks who gets the short end of the stick this time), not an entirely one-sided fight this time. The beginning portion with Goten, Trunks and Videl helping out that village was shit, though.

6. DBZ Movie #8: Tied with DBZ Movie #10. Starts off pretty good with its plot, but takes a dive with an extremely one-sided beatdown on the cast straight from the start. Paragus has a good design, as does Broli (before you criticize his character, that was the point. He's the Legendary Super Saiyan, a batshit insane, bloodthirsty warrior, so no wonder he'd hold a grudge on a guy just for crying next to him, although even that's more like a subplot than anything, because it's just an excuse for him to wail on a bunch of randoms). I like how the heroes actually went straight to SS rather than fucking around in base. Finale's a bit of a dud, though.

8. DBZ Movie #5: Pretty much a retelling of the Freeza fight, but at least it's a pretty basic revenge plot and doesn't try to hide behind the blatant set-up for most movies. Also, the delicious irony at the end, with Coola having had the opportunity to destroy what eventually turned out to be his murderer.

9. DBZ Movie #2: To be honest, it's largely forgettable and uninspired, but little Gohan in a Piccolo cape and Muten Roushi fighting the Brutal Warriors FTW.

10. DBZ Movie #6: I found the plot to be pretty retarded, and also shit all over the irony of Coola's death at the hands of SS Gokuu in the last film, but whatever. At least we get to see Gokuu and Vegeta team up. I think I recall liking the part where Piccolo, Gohan and Kuririn are fighting those soldier robots or whatever, for some reason.

11. DBZ Movie #4: People often bash this for being a rip-off of Piccolo Daimaou, but I don't think that should be the reason for why it's looked down upon as one of the worst films. But there's not that much to say about this one. Fourth Genki-Dama in the row (WTF, Toei, think up some more original ideas!), and Gokuu doesn't even bother using the Kaiouken until after he's got his ass beaten and then rejuvenated by Piccolo's borrowed ki.

12. DBZ Movie #3: Tullece was an interesting character, if only because he was a representation of what Gokuu would've been like if he hadn't hit his head. Also, I like the aesthetic of the whole film, with its moody shades cast across the planet, the tree and pale ol' Tullece himself. But something spoiled that movie a little in my eyes: Hire Dragon. How I hate that motherfucking dragon. He's not cute, he's just annoying and it's unfathomable why the movie had to spent that much time exploring Gohan's relationship with some random little dragon, and also, why does Oozaru Gohan not recognize and actually attack his father, the man who'd brought him up his entire life, but does recognize a fucking animal he barely knew and met, like, a day ago?

13. DBZ Movie #7: Just flat and boring. The Androids weren't anything special, and for some reason, the heroes had trouble with them in both base and SS. I know it's Toei, but come on. And Super #13...what the fuck was that? And then using the Genki-Dama again, but oh no, it's original because Gokuu becomes a SS, absorbs it and punches him in the stomach.
Last edited by Piccolo Daimao on Sun Apr 22, 2012 5:49 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Postby Insertclevername » Sun Apr 22, 2012 3:05 pm

I don't know others feel on this but I feel movies, to me, are better when Goku is side shafted, like 9, 10, 11. When Goku is fighting you know what to expect and considering how most movies plots aren't the most ground breaking things out there, it adds a bit of drama to see when Gohan, Kuririun, Goten, Trunks, Piccolo, ect step up to the plate and get spotlight. Not to say that most movies are bad since Gokus the star but it gets incredibly jarring to see Goku win by a Genki Dama for the 4th time in a row, you know?
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Postby Hellspawn28 » Sun Apr 22, 2012 3:23 pm

Movie 11 to me is the Star Trek V of the DB series. It's dull and unnecessary in the grand scheme of the series. At least Movie 4 and Movie 7 has enjoyable moments while Movie 11 was boring to watch.

This is how I would rank the DBZ movies:

Movie 13
Movie 1
Movie 12
Movie 5
Movie 6
Movie 8
Movie 9
Movie 10
Movie 3
Movie 7
Movie 4
Movie 2
Movie 11

I liked the Coola movies because they were always fun to watch and Coola always been one of my favorite DBZ movie villains. The plot in Movie 5 was nothing special but the fight scenes were enjoyable.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Postby Gyt Kaliba » Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:21 pm

One that's definitely unpopular, at least around here (and to the point that I almost don't even want to mention it) - I don't mind the dub nearly as bad as most do. Don't get me wrong - I finally just finished the entire franchise in subbed form recently, and I found the subbed version to be a lot better and way more consistent, but I still can't say I 'hate' the dub at all.

Another unpopular opinion would be like a few have said, I'm really not a hater of Broly. I'm not nuts over him and don't claim he's the best, most powerful warrior ever, but for what he was (at least in movie 8), I liked him.

I'm sure there's more but I'm drawing a blank at the moment.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Postby Jackal puFF » Sun Apr 22, 2012 5:26 pm

Definitely agree on Movie 11 to be pretty good! It has great fight choreography and I think it's a lot better directed than a lot of the other dragonball movies. I don't really like Movie 13 that much. I fell asleep while watching it haha. Though the characters are interesting. I was a disappointed that Tapion didn't really do anything than just play the ocarina.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Postby Hellspawn28 » Sun Apr 22, 2012 5:27 pm

If they didn't bring Broly back in Movie 10 and 11 then I would imagine that most people would have liked him more. Not to mention the video game intros has him fight against Gogeta which makes people think that Broly is stronger then Buu.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Postby Piccolo Daimao » Sun Apr 22, 2012 5:56 pm

Hellspawn28 wrote:If they didn't bring Broly back in Movie 10 and 11 then I would imagine that most people would have liked him more. Not to mention the video game intros has him fight against Gogeta which makes people think that Broly is stronger then Buu.


Well, they brought back Coola in DBZ Movie #6, but it's not as if everyone was jizzing over him then. And I don't think it was his third appearance either, because you can hardly even call that Broli anymore. He's just a big poop-monster who happens to have SS hair and Broli's DNA inside of him.

The reason he's so popular is because he's the embodiment of every negative stereotype of DB, which 12-year-old battle power-obsessives seem to love (HE'S DA LEDGENDERRY SUPA SAYAN WHO EVEN BEAT UP ALL SSJS AT ONCE!!! as if the other movie villains never did that...), and what's more, the video game creators seem to have picked up on this and tout him as being this uber-strong guy in every game from Budokai 3 onwards.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Postby Insertclevername » Sun Apr 22, 2012 6:00 pm

Gyt Kaliba wrote:One that's definitely unpopular, at least around here (and to the point that I almost don't even want to mention it) - I don't mind the dub nearly as bad as most do. Don't get me wrong - I finally just finished the entire franchise in subbed form recently, and I found the subbed version to be a lot better and way more consistent, but I still can't say I 'hate' the dub at all.

Another unpopular opinion would be like a few have said, I'm really not a hater of Broly. I'm not nuts over him and don't claim he's the best, most powerful warrior ever, but for what he was (at least in movie 8), I liked him.

I'm sure there's more but I'm drawing a blank at the moment.


I agree with you on the first point, the dub is ok, nothing to the original, but ok none the less. Maybe it might be rose tinted glasses I'm seeing through.... :)

Also, I don't mind Broli for what he was, but it's his over saturation in fan and game stuff that really rubbed me wrong with him in recent years. And his fanboys too... :P
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Postby dprez » Sun Apr 22, 2012 6:06 pm

The Daizenshuu is not always right.

I'm not sure how unpopular this opinion may be here, but I have a feeling that quite a few members take the Daizenshuu as canon similar to how some people believe every word of the Bible.


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