Unpopular DB opinions

[Baggie_Saiyan]

In my opinion TOEI giving FUNimation the rights to dub the show was the worst thing ever, they should have waited for a while or let someone else take the dubbing Rights .

Oh please. That is an overexaggeration.

No I am serious, if the dub was accurate we would have less differences and no divided fanbase. look at naruto dub, the show is same in English to the point that even if someone watched the dub they still are watching the same show.

The dub is accurate... have you not heard of Kai? The past is irrelevant now, it is the past. In fact if it wasn't for Fukunaga and his contacts DB might never have come out in English.

[ABED]

The past is irrelevant now, it is the past.

There are still hold overs, DBZ is still the main product, and it still influences people's perception of the story.

In fact if it wasn't for Fukunaga and his contacts DB might never have come out in English.

Considering that even obscure titles have gotten released, I doubt that DB would never have come to the US.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

In fact if it wasn't for Fukunaga and his contacts DB might never have come out in English.

I mean, before 1995, there was the Harmony Gold dub, and despite the fact it didn't do well I'd still argue Dragon Ball would have eventually came to the US and been successful with another company seen as how every other successful anime franchise from Japan got licenced, not to mention with the exception of Pokémon this series is probably the biggest Japanese entertainment brand period.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

In fact if it wasn't for Fukunaga and his contacts DB might never have come out in English.

I mean, before 1995, there was the Harmony Gold dub, and despite the fact it didn't do well I'd still argue Dragon Ball would have eventually came to the US and been successful with another company seen as how every other successful anime franchise from Japan got licenced, not to mention with the exception of Pokémon this series is probably the biggest Japanese entertainment brand period.

That is what I mean, that didn't do well and so Toei probably would have been like nah we tried once move over, wasn't it Fukunaga's persistence that got the U.S the Z series to have a second crack? But still at the end of the day it doesn't matter, the past is the past, things have been course corrected now so it really doesn't matter.

[nickzambuto]

DBZ sort of opened the floodgates for anime in America. If Toei never gave FUNi the rights, the anime landscape would look very differently.

[Eire]

It almost seems that people forgot that in times pre 2000s what was in available TV channel was popular, not the other way around. I see that in Europe where popular TV stations imprinted franchises into whole generations. What was obscure stayed obscure and what was watched in every home never left people's minds. Had you been given Saint Seyia or Captain Harlock or Moomins every friday 7pm for 7 years you would have love them.

[ABED]

It almost seems that people forgot that in times pre 2000s what was in available TV channel was popular, not the other way around. I see that in Europe where popular TV stations imprinted franchises into whole generations. What was obscure stayed obscure and what was watched in every home never left people's minds. Had you been given Saint Seyia or Captain Harlock or Moomins every friday 7pm for 7 years you would have love them.

That's very naïve. You can't just put something in a time slot and make it popular.

That is what I mean, that didn't do well and so Toei probably would have been like nah we tried once move over

Also wrong. You can't put something in a timeslot where the target audience isn't awake to see it and expect it to be popular.

[8000 Saiyan]

The worst thing ever created? That's an overexaggeration.

In my opinion TOEI giving FUNimation the rights to dub the show was the worst thing ever, they should have waited for a while or let someone else take the dubbing Rights .

Oh please. That is an overexaggeration.

Both are overexaggerations.

[Dbzfan94]

Both are overexaggerations.

Agreed.

[Sailor Haumea]

It almost seems that people forgot that in times pre 2000s what was in available TV channel was popular, not the other way around. I see that in Europe where popular TV stations imprinted franchises into whole generations. What was obscure stayed obscure and what was watched in every home never left people's minds. Had you been given Saint Seyia or Captain Harlock or Moomins every friday 7pm for 7 years you would have love them.

What the hell does this even mean?

People can go out and find fansubs, or learn of series through word of mouth. The world exists outside of what's on television in your country. It wasn't like Funimation descended from the heavens giving the gift of Dragon Ball to America.

[Cure Dragon 255]

That's why you need to read and look at the PRE 2000's detail there. It means that any dub of Dragon Ball (If given a favorable timeslot) can succeed. Funimation or no Funimation.

[Sailor Haumea]

That's why you need to read and look at the PRE 2000's detail there. It means that any dub of Dragon Ball (If given a favorable timeslot) can succeed. Funimation or no Funimation.

My point is that Dragon Ball didn't start in the West with the dub. It started in the late 80s/early 90s, with fansubs.

[Hellspawn28]

DBZ sort of opened the floodgates for anime in America. If Toei never gave FUNi the rights, the anime landscape would look very differently.

Anime was already pretty big in America since the early 90's. Before Toonami was a big thing in 1998/1999 (I know it started in 1997, but they mostly had American cartoons 99% of the time on Toonami), you had anime on other TV channels and anime on VHS sold at many places like Blockbuster, Sun Coast, Sam Goody and many others. Heck, even something like M.D Geist was able to make into the billboard top 10 video charts in the early 90's.

If a 6 year old kid back in 1997 like me could rent something like They Were Eleven on VHS and stay up late to watch Demon City Shinjuku on Sci-Fi, most kids could have easily found away to watch anime without Toonami. DBZ already had a big cult following with fan sub tapes and Pioneer was rumor to buy Dragon Ball back in 1994. Dragon Ball could have almost been a direct to video franchise in the US and maybe air on TV later on similar to Tenchi Muyo OVA 1-2 back in 1999-2000 on Cartoon Network.

[Cure Dragon 255]

That's why you need to read and look at the PRE 2000's detail there. It means that any dub of Dragon Ball (If given a favorable timeslot) can succeed. Funimation or no Funimation.

My point is that Dragon Ball didn't start in the West with the dub. It started in the late 80s/early 90s, with fansubs.

True. But Fansubs arent enough to make anime successful. I'm not saying "Funimation's shitty dub was instrumental in making DB a success". Its the healthy timeslots and promotion that made Dragon Ball a success.

[Kunzait_83]

The dub is accurate... have you not heard of Kai? The past is irrelevant now, it is the past. In fact if it wasn't for Fukunaga and his contacts DB might never have come out in English.

A) The original Z dub has completely and irrevocably "tainted" the franchise in the U.S. Holdovers of old arguments, misperceptions, and mistranslations STILL persist to this day, and likely always will. Many if not most of the hardest of hardcore and most vocal of U.S. DBZ fans are still very often old school Toonami-era fans who cannot let go of the original Cartoon Network broadcasts, and quirks that haven't been relevant in any home release or redub of the series still carry over today.

And if nothing else, Power Level debates and arguments are probably one of the single most lasting bits of "damage" that the old dub has left on the series and its fanbase, probably forever.

B) PLENTY of other licensing companies at that time would have given their first born child's severed head to have licensed DB/Z in the U.S. back in the early to mid 90s. Pioneer likely would've been the ones to do it if Fukanaga hadn't swept in with a nobody company and used nepotism to steal it.

DBZ sort of opened the floodgates for anime in America. If Toei never gave FUNi the rights, the anime landscape would look very differently.

It opened the floodgates for anime aimed at middle school children becoming the dominant force. The anime landscape WOULD'VE looked different sure: the U.S. fanbase might still be more centered on titles not aimed primarily at 8 year old kids.

All of these kinds of posts operate under the mistaken belief that all of anime in the United States, especially and particularly back in the 1990s was centered squarely around 1) what aired on mainstream children's TV and B) titles that were primarily aimed at children in general. Both of which are exceedingly inaccurate. People have always consumed media in a variety of ways, both before and after the advent of streaming and the internet, that don't revolve around TV. TV was not the center of anime distribution before the 2000s, and Shonen was not the fixture of all things anime in the U.S. within that timeframe.

This being a generation of fandom here that was raised and grew up largely walled off from non-children's media and non-TV focused media is why these discussions always have a skewed focus on Shonen airing on kids cartoon blocks in the U.S., when that was just the tiniest sliver of anime's exposure in the U.S. prior to FUNimation and Toonami at the turn of the millennium.

[Dbzfan94]

And if nothing else, Power Level debates and arguments are probably one of the single most lasting bits of "damage" that the old dub has left on the series and its fanbase, probably forever.

Lets not try and pretend it's just dub fans who have the power level debates.

[Kunzait_83]

And if nothing else, Power Level debates and arguments are probably one of the single most lasting bits of "damage" that the old dub has left on the series and its fanbase, probably forever.

Lets not try and pretend it's just dub fans who have the power level debates.

Power Level debates started WITH the dub and BECAUSE of the dub. They weren't a thing that happened prior to the dub.

Most of today's sub fans tend to be former dub fans themselves who converted later on, and still have holdovers of the their dub fandom perspective hanging over them, and thus may still engage in PL discussions. The dub and its original fanbase planted the original seed for PL debates that had grown and stuck around to this day. Before 1997/1998, PL debates were NEVER a part of fandom in the U.S. The concept as a whole was BARELY ever discussed.

[Cure Dragon 255]

The dub is accurate... have you not heard of Kai? The past is irrelevant now, it is the past. In fact if it wasn't for Fukunaga and his contacts DB might never have come out in English.

A) The original Z dub has completely and irrevocably "tainted" the franchise in the U.S. Holdovers of old arguments, misperceptions, and mistranslations STILL persist to this day, and likely always will. Many if not most of the hardest of hardcore and most vocal of U.S. DBZ fans are still very often old school Toonami-era fans who cannot let go of the original Cartoon Network broadcasts, and quirks that haven't been relevant in any home release or redub of the series still carry over today.

And if nothing else, Power Level debates and arguments are probably one of the single most lasting bits of "damage" that the old dub has left on the series and its fanbase, probably forever.

B) PLENTY of other licensing companies at that time would have given their first born child's severed head to have licensed DB/Z in the U.S. back in the early to mid 90s. Pioneer likely would've been the ones to do it if Fukanaga hadn't swept in with a nobody company and used nepotism to steal it.

DBZ sort of opened the floodgates for anime in America. If Toei never gave FUNi the rights, the anime landscape would look very differently.

It opened the floodgates for anime aimed at middle school children becoming the dominant force. The anime landscape WOULD'VE looked different sure: the U.S. fanbase might still be more centered on titles not aimed primarily at 8 year old kids.

All of these kinds of posts operate under the mistaken belief that all of anime in the United States, especially and particularly back in the 1990s was centered squarely around 1) what aired on mainstream children's TV and B) titles that were primarily aimed at children in general. Both of which are exceedingly inaccurate. People have always consumed media in a variety of ways, both before and after the advent of streaming and the internet, that don't revolve around TV. TV was not the center of anime distribution before the 2000s, and Shonen was not the fixture of all things anime in the U.S. within that timeframe.

This being a generation of fandom here that was raised and grew up largely walled off from non-children's media and non-TV focused media is why these discussions always have a skewed focus on Shonen airing on kids cartoon blocks in the U.S., when that was just the tiniest sliver of anime's exposure in the U.S. prior to FUNimation and Toonami at the turn of the millennium.

I love you Mr Kunzait, but this is kind of false. The fandom is most definitely not focused on kids stuff anymore. In fact kids anime is almost DEAD in the USA and abroad, sure it thrives in Japan, but kids nets dont want anime for kids anymore. But you are most certainly right about everything else. And the Cult of the "We need to dumb down Kids anime even further" that persists due to this day due to the success of Funimation's DBZ IS FUCKING INFURIATING.

[Dbzfan94]

[And the Cult of the "We need to dumb down Kids anime even further" that persists due to this day due to the success of Funimation's DBZ IS FUCKING INFURIATING.

Where is this "cult?" Unless you mean ill-informed parents, there's not really anyone who still thinks this in my experience.

[Cure Dragon 255]

I meant "FUCKING MORONIC EXECUTIVES" kids can handle stuff just fine. Its the cult of dumb executives that still think anime needs to be butchered for kids to enjoy. That's why Glitter Force still exists.