What is a "Side Story?" Dragon Ball GT Edition

[Kamiccolo9]

This is a topic very near and dear to me, that annoys the crap out of me whenever I see it brought up in the context of Dragon Ball. I'd like to thank Zephyr for unwittingly giving me the idea to do this, and Fat Nagger for giving me the last bit of information I needed

A side story is, literally that, a story that exist alongside the main story. It can be parallel (taking place at the same time), be set before the main story, or be set after the main story.

To give some examples,
Fire Emblem Gaiden is the second Fire Emblem game, it takes places in the same world and at the same time as the original Fire Emblem, and features a few characters from the original game. Another Fire Emblem game, Thracia 776, is a side story to the fourth Fire Emblem game, Seisen no Keifu, in that it covers an adventure by one of the characters from SnK at a time set during a time skip in the middle of said game.

The Lion King 1 1/2 is a side story to the original Lion King, in that it focuses on the story of side characters from the original movie. It's purpose, aside from entertainment, is to expand on the histories of Timon and Pumba. Side stories are often used in this fashion, in order to spend time fleshing out characters that didn't have enough time allotted to them in the original work.

Rhett Butler's People is a side story to Gone With the Wind that goes through much of the original story from the perspective of Rhett, rather than Scarlet.

A personal favorite of mine, Boston Legal, is both a side story and a spinoff of The Practice. Note that spinoffs and side stories are not mutually exclusive. This will be important later. Another example in the same vein as this one would be Batman: The Animated Series, and it's spinoff, Batman Beyond.

You may be wondering how any of this relates to Dragon Ball. Well, it all comes from a single quote by Akira Toriyama, where he states that he considers Dragon Ball GT to be "A Grand Side Story."


Given GT's place in the timeline, it would obviously fall into the same category of side story as Boston Legal and Batman Beyond.

The issue I see is that this statement is often used to discount GT as "non-canon." Without getting into the messier details about Dragon Ball canon, I would like to elaborate on why this viewpoint is incorrect.

First off, the problem of dealing in absolutes. When making an absolute your argument, all it requires is one contradiction to make the entire argument fall apart. Saying that GT is a side story, and because it is a side story, it is not canon, is making the assertion that side stories are, as a whole, not canon.

As a rebuttal to this, I present my evidence. All of the side stories I listed above are considered canon to their respective franchises. Therefore, saying that "GT cannot be canon because it is a side story" is faulty logic as, by their nature, side stories are not inherently non-canon to their respective franchises.

Second, there is the argument that Toriyama called GT a side story because he didn't like it, and that this somehow makes it non-canon.
Well, firstly, Toriyama's likes and dislikes don't really matter when determining canonicity, as he is not the sole rights holder. Second, being labeled a side story is not, and has never been, a sign of disdain for something. Third, he refers to it as a "Grand" side story, which doesn't really sound like an admonition against it.

So, in short, GT being a side story does not make it "not canon," nor does it mean that Toriyama dislikes the series. There are plenty of other arguments to make against GT's canonicity (as it stands in Dragon Ball), but this is not one of them.

[ekrolo2]

Or we can just put it in simple terms like this: the new movies like BoG and "F" are canon to the manga while GT is canon to the anime. Both are alternate universe of one another that closely ressemble themselves yet with some differences that make GT impossible to fit into the mangaverse yet perfectly fine in the animeverse. Same can be said for some of the original 13 movies that could fit into the animeverse like Dead Zone, Revenge of Cooler, Broly 1 & 2, Bojack and Wrath of the Dragon with the others that can't being just more alternate universe to the animeverse.

Like movies 2-4 are in an AU where Piccolo didn't die during the Saiyan battle so the Z warriors never went to space, Fusion Reborns set in an AU where Goku wasn't a fucking idiot for once and killed Fat Buu when he first fought him instead of letting his incompetent spawn deal with him because reasons. Then the couple ones with the androids & metal Cooler happen in AUs where the Z fighters managed to off Gero and/or 17 & 18 without Cell showing up to mess things up.

Dragon Ball Online could be seen as an extension of the mangaverse seeing as it has no anime elements to speak of (or some neglegable ones at best) or an AU that just more closely ressembles the mangaverse but probably doesn't count to it.

That's how I sort through all this "WUT IZ CANIN IN DUR DRAGUN BAWLZ?!" bullshit everyone feels the need to argue about.

[Kamiccolo9]

Or we can just put it in simple terms like this: the new movies like BoG and "F" are canon to the manga while GT is canon to the anime. Both are alternate universe of one another that closely ressemble themselves yet with some differences that make GT impossible to fit into the mangaverse yet perfectly fine in the animeverse. Same can be said for some of the original 13 movies that could fit into the animeverse like Dead Zone, Revenge of Cooler, Broly 1 & 2, Bojack and Wrath of the Dragon with the others that can't being just more alternate universe to the animeverse.

Like movies 2-4 are in an AU where Piccolo didn't die during the Saiyan battle so the Z warriors never went to space, Fusion Reborns set in an AU where Goku wasn't a fucking idiot for once and killed Fat Buu when he first fought him instead of letting his incompetent spawn deal with him because reasons. Then the couple ones with the androids & metal Cooler happen in AUs where the Z fighters managed to off Gero and/or 17 & 18 without Cell showing up to mess things up.

Dragon Ball Online could be seen as an extension of the mangaverse seeing as it has no anime elements to speak of (or some neglegable ones at best) or an AU that just more closely ressembles the mangaverse but probably doesn't count to it.

That's how I sort through all this "WUT IZ CANIN IN DUR DRAGUN BAWLZ?!" bullshit everyone feels the need to argue about.

I suppose, but that's not what this topic is about.

It's about a specific argument used against GT's canonicity. An argument that is flawed, and comes about due to lack of understanding of the terms involved.

[Valerius Dover]

I would consider it a sequel series, not a side story or spin-off, so I agree with you here.

[Kamiccolo9]

I would consider it a sequel series, not a side story or spin-off, so I agree with you here.

Well, Toriyama calls it a side story (which is the root of this whole thing), and, as I mentioned, the terms aren't mutually exclusive.

[Black Hawk]

To add to your points, Kamiccolo9, while Toriyama-sensei described the movies (prior to 2013) was taking place in an alternate universe or continuity, he never made any such statement regarding Dragon Ball GT. All too often I see the argument that, since Toriyama-sensei declared the movies "non-canon" (which he technically never did, in a literal sense), GT must be similarly "non-canon" as well due to its being a work of Toei Animation without Toriyama-sensei's story involvement.

[Kamiccolo9]

To add to your points, Kamiccolo9, while Toriyama-sensei described the movies (prior to 2013) was taking place in an alternate universe or continuity, he never made any such statement regarding Dragon Ball GT. All too often I see the argument that, since Toriyama-sensei declared the movies "non-canon" (which he technically never did, in a literal sense), GT must be similarly "non-canon" as well due to its being a work of Toei Animation without Toriyama-sensei's story involvement.

Another good point, and one I'd like to add to. He may have said that the movies take place in an alternate universe, but what about Future Trunks' timeline? Or the one that Perfect Cell came from? Are these not also alternate universes?

[fadeddreams5]

There are so many unnecessarily unanswered questions in this series in regards to GT, and it is Toriyama's fault for being an indifferent recluse. Love the guy, but this debate over whether it's canon/non-canon has been going on for years. Same with Gohan's inability to go ultimate. It's as easy as a yes or no from him, but he probably doesn't even know what they are at this point. lol.

[Black Hawk]

Another good point, and one I'd like to add to. He may have said that the movies take place in an alternate universe, but what about Future Trunks' timeline? Or the one that Perfect Cell came from? Are these not also alternate universes?

Excellent point. The only big issue I see there is the fact that many of the movies' starring characters, namely Son Gokū, are already dead in each of those timelines by the time many of the films take place, particularly movies that take place following the activation of No. 17 and No. 18. Of course, that isn't to say that the movies don't take place in multiple timelines, such as Dragon Ball Z: Super Saiyajin Son Gokū taking place in one timeline, while the same time period is followed up by Dragon Ball Z: Incredible Mightiest VS Mightiest in another (since DBZ: SSJ Son Gokū is said to take place during the battle against Freeza).

Back on-topic, I agree with you 100% that, by definition, Toriyama-sensei's statement that GT is a grand side-story does not at all equate to "I don't consider GT part of my story."

[ekrolo2]

To add to your points, Kamiccolo9, while Toriyama-sensei described the movies (prior to 2013) was taking place in an alternate universe or continuity, he never made any such statement regarding Dragon Ball GT. All too often I see the argument that, since Toriyama-sensei declared the movies "non-canon" (which he technically never did, in a literal sense), GT must be similarly "non-canon" as well due to its being a work of Toei Animation without Toriyama-sensei's story involvement.

Another good point, and one I'd like to add to. He may have said that the movies take place in an alternate universe, but what about Future Trunks' timeline? Or the one that Perfect Cell came from? Are these not also alternate universes?

They are but since they showed up in the manga they count, yet the first 13 movies or even GT being just more alternate universes is somehow hard to understand for people. Way I see it is this, the whole side story comment is him saying that if you want it to "count" you can, if you don't you can do that too. He's basically chalking it up to a big story that was done with his creation that fans can choose to take in or throw to the bin at their leasure.

[Super SaiyaJon]

Not sure if this has anything to do with it, but wouldn't GT have to be canon to the movies? I remember some movie villains (such as Cooler) were shown in the episode where the villains escape hell.

[Kamiccolo9]

Not sure if this has anything to do with it, but wouldn't GT have to be canon to the movies? I remember some movie villains (such as Cooler) were shown in the episode where the villains escape hell.

Not necessarily. Just because, let's say Cooler, was in hell during the events of GT, that doesn't mean that the exact same events from Movies 5 and 6 had to take place for him to get there.

As a parallel, Movie 12 has Goku referring to Majin Buu, yet the state that everyone is in during that movie could not have occurred during or immediately after the Buu Arc as it was portrayed in the manga and anime. So it would seem that Goku is referring to the events of an altered Buu Arc that only applies to Movie 12.

[Cetra]

It is pretty obvious sidestories are not the same thing as non-canonical stories. Kamiccolo has the perfect avatar example for that. The Kingdom Hearts series has a handful of sidestories, spin-offs, prequels and sequels and yet they are all canonical to the main story. "Side" story simply refers to the focus and nothing else. Basically it is just a branch fro,m the main story, yet a part of the overall main story. In case of GT it was always undefined. Maybe it will change in the future but "it is a sidestory", "Akira Toriyama didn't make it", "I am a fan and I don't like it" or "grass is green so it is not canon" have no objective influence over GT's canonicity. It is made by people who can officially decide and I am pretty sure if Akira Toriyama would be asked he would probably even consider including some stuff of it if people tell him about it just like they did with DBZ again. He sees what people like and seems to respond to it.

[Black Hawk]

Another video game example can be found in The Legend of Zelda series. When Mujura's Mask was in development, it had a working title of Zelda Gaiden, which is exactly what it was intended to be: a side-story to The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time (before it was turned into a full-fledged game). In spite of fan theories regarding the events of Mujura's Mask as being a dream, an illusion, or Link coming to terms with his death, Aonuma Eiji, the director of the series (and of Mujura's Mask) confirmed that the game is "canon" and that it has its place in the timeline.

I kind of wish Toriyama-sensei would do something similar by releasing a statement or making a comment along the lines of "It's up to each individual fan to determine what he or she believes the true story of Dragon Ball is." and maybe even add "I don't have any thoughts on it." given that...knowing him, he probably doesn't care one way or the other if GT is "canon" or not. I doubt, however, that even a statement from Toriyama-sensei on the matter would quell the fan debates and arguments. If anything, the debate might switch from "GT is/isn't 'canon'." to "My thoughts on GT are better than yours."

[Super SaiyaJon]

An official DB timeline like the Zelda timeline would be really neat! I wonder if they'd split it into 2 timelines or if they're make it more complicated?

[Zephyr]

Hey, glad to see I'm making a difference in some way.

Good read. I find myself discussing this sort of thing rather often, so I hope you don't mind if I link to this thread to help dispel misconceptions.

An official DB timeline like the Zelda timeline would be really neat! I wonder if they'd split it into 2 timelines or if they're make it more complicated?

I actually attempted to do something similar to this. Link's in my sig.

[Kamiccolo9]

Hey, glad to see I'm making a difference in some way.

Good read. I find myself discussing this sort of thing rather often, so I hope you don't mind if I link to this thread to help dispel misconceptions.

An official DB timeline like the Zelda timeline would be really neat! I wonder if they'd split it into 2 timelines or if they're make it more complicated?

I actually attempted to do something similar to this. Link's in my sig.

No problem, go for it

[Black Hawk]

An official DB timeline like the Zelda timeline would be really neat! I wonder if they'd split it into 2 timelines or if they're make it more complicated?

That would be really neat, but I expect it would just feature the three timelines in the Chōzenshū guide. Even then, I couldn't see it doing much more than detailing known dates in the "main" timeline, a few dates for character deaths and such in Trunks's timeline (such as the Zetto Senshi's downfall, Son Gohan's death, and No. 17's and No. 18's deaths) , and a brief mention of Cell's timeline.

[rereboy]

If its a "side story", then its apart from the main story. The term "side story" has a connotation of differentiation to it. It could have been called simply a continuation of the story, but instead it was called a "side story". In a franchise with no defined "canon", that's as close as anything gets of being called "non-canon".

[Kamiccolo9]

An official DB timeline like the Zelda timeline would be really neat! I wonder if they'd split it into 2 timelines or if they're make it more complicated?

That would be really neat, but I expect it would just feature the three timelines in the Chōzenshū guide. Even then, I couldn't see it doing much more than detailing known dates in the "main" timeline, a few dates for character deaths and such in Trunks's timeline (such as the Zetto Senshi's downfall, Son Gohan's death, and No. 17's and No. 18's deaths) , and a brief mention of Cell's timeline.

Funnily enough, the Chozenshuu timeline doesn't list one of the timelines present in the Daizenshuu excerpt that timeline came from.

There is another timeline I've seen floating around that includes a few movies, along with a disclaimer saying that they wouldn't actually fit where they are placed. I don't know what it's from, but I've seen Herms reference it recently.