Question to the JPN fans and Pro-JPN fans(regarding opnings)

[Valerius Dover]

Even the Funi opening for DBZ actually has a similar tone to the original songs. Otherwise it wouldn't fit the animations at all. And DB And DBGT just use English versions of the original songs, so how much is actually different here?
The only exception would be the opening used in the two DBZ Specials. DRAGON BALL...ZEEE

[Eire]

Why is it with all of the Dragon Ball opening theme songs, all or most of them, the tone has to be cheery and the lyrics always has to involve lightheartedness, love, and families instead of the opposite?

Because Dragon Ball is a cheery and lighthearted show. Bad things happen, but it all turns out OK in the hand.

Sure, there's that, but it's still excuses. One Piece has almost the exact same tone as Dragon Ball, yet they don't use opening songs in some serious sagas where Dragon Ball does. All. The. Time!

Heck, what about some folks who haven't watch the series before? I think they would be disgusted when they hear a cheery theme while they see Freeza ripping Namekians apart or Cell "eating" people in the street.

I think you mean French opening that was imported to the most of the Europe
http://youtu.be/dZ1NcxAZUYk
And totally worked. Seriously, how can't you love that cheerful disco accompanying blood and gore? I don't know whose idea it was, but he clearly was a genoius.
And even after all those years when you mention DB to anyone who used to watch it, it's the first thing that comes to mind. No sarcasm, I loved it and love.

I've written it many times- had you been exposed to oryginal score, you would have never dreamed of "hardcore" replacement. More- it would have been the trumpet sound playing during most important scenes that gave you chill and make memories flow.

As a child I soaked into taht music like a sponge. As an adoult I adore it. For me Funi is forgettable, so similar to every other USA cartoon. I'm with Kei17- dragon Ball was a.mixture of epic and siliness and oryginal OST fitted the theme of the cartoon where the bloody mecenaries preformed dances so silly that it embarassed their bosss. Who looked like albino lizard from my backyard

[EXBadguy]

Dragonball is not grim or dark at it's heart. It's pure Shonen goodness.

Again, Bull! Shit! Look at some of the Attack on Titian and Bleach openings. Those shows have sagas where everyone makes it out alive in the end, but the opening during the saga doesn't have a cheery feel to it, it just gets to the point. Whether if it has a semi-dark vibe or a alarming vibe . Or at least when some openings do have a "cheery" feel, it doesn't push itself too far to have a poppy babyish feel.

And I dunno why some of you think I'm comparing the DB openings to Funimation, that wasn't my intention at first. Granted, some of the Funimation themes weren't that dark either, but at least it did went straight to the point with the tone of the saga and has a badass feel to it while most of the modern Japanese openings sound too pop-ish and babyish. I understand they're trying to modernize the songs, but don't try to make them too cheery and pop-idol-ish. Have some of the badass feel in tact like most of Kageyama's DBZ songs. Though I can't help but giving Dragon Soul a pass, cuz it's so damn catchy.

And as for Kageyama's Head Cha-la and We Gotta Power, I like them, but I strongly prefer the 2005 versions. Good shit.

[MCDaveG]

It's a heroic adventure and fun story for kids and the opening have that ''Shonen Spirit''.
Every day DB and later DBZ aired after school at evening, I was so hyped by the Chala Head Chala opening
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUYI6v0qGIY

And I loved even the recap music:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJAvS3gpsxY

So much nostalgia!!
And the music did a huge part in the overall atmosphere of the series, that made me love it.
I talked about this countless times here already

Everything fits, tough the series wasn't so hardcore as was marketed to US fans

[Lord Beerus]

Dragon Ball is a comedy action manga/TV show and the openings pretty much epitomize what it is at its core. Yes, the show can get quite dark at times but that doesn't negate the fact that Dragon Ball at heart is a silly, wacky and fun story. It's just for a period of time, it took itself too seriously. And Funimation chose to emphasis that seriousness, and in the end, created a warped image of what Dragon Ball Z is and arguably, what Dragon Ball should be seen as a whole for many years to the western audience.

[fadeddreams5]

And Funimation chose to emphasis that seriousness and in the end, created a warped image of what Dragon Ball Z is and arguably, what Dragon Ball should be seen as a whole for many years to the western audience.

I'm pretty sure Latin America saw it as a hardcore action cartoon too. I visited Puerto Rico as a kid, and the version they got was the same other Spanish countries got, which included Kikuchi's music. My cousins all saw it as an epic cool cartoon.

Funimation did not create a warped image! Toei did! FUNi just hyped up the fight scenes and promoted them over the lulz moments, which I'm sure every company handling it did. DBZ (i.e. later half of DB) is an action cartoon that happens to balance out serious and light-heartedness. You can have any tone you want with this anime, which is what makes it so unique.

[Mystic Tien]

I don't actually see Cha-La Head-Cha-La as some happy-lucky go song. It is pretty epic for me. And has some deep scenes in my opinion. Like the one with Dr.Gero, and Android's arm for example. This is just awesome.

[Lord Beerus]

Funimation did not create a warped image! Toei did!

You honestly don't think that Funimation's choice of rock music throughout the show and in the some of the movies and as well the questionable dubbing which altered the interpretation of some of the characters created a warped image of what Dragon Ball Z was seen as in the west?

[fadeddreams5]

Funimation did not create a warped image! Toei did!

You honestly don't think that Funimation's choice of rock music throughout the show and in the some of the movies and as well the questionable dubbing which altered the interpretation of some of the characters created a warped image of what Dragon Ball Z was seen as in the west?

I don't think Faulconer music influenced how people view the show. I first watched the Ocean dub of the show, and then the Kikuchi sub, and the only reason I watched as a kid in the first place was because it was cool and the characters were likable. Like I said, people in other countries also saw it as a badass, epic show, even though they were exposed to Kikuchi's soundtrack.

As for the specials/movies, they are the main culprit for people's possible skewed views of the series. Toei created those, and they are much more serious and action-orientated than the series. The rock in the dubs versions...yeah, I never got that, but even without it, the tone was very different than the actual show. Just because music accentuates something doesn't mean it's changing what the show is all about. =P

Dubbing...what other characters were altered besides Frieza? If anything, the dub made characters more goofy.

[Big Momma]

Funimation did not create a warped image! Toei did!

You honestly don't think that Funimation's choice of rock music throughout the show and in the some of the movies and as well the questionable dubbing which altered the interpretation of some of the characters created a warped image of what Dragon Ball Z was seen as in the west?

There's thread somewhere that talks about Toei's marketting of DBZ in the 90s. And, from what I remember, they were known to push the "hardcore" image, as well.

[kei17]

I understand FUNi's effrots to localize the show for the sake of marketing strategies, but I still strongly despise them for making it so cheesy to appeal to early teens who love "badass" things that make them feel matured. It destroyed Toriyama's universalistic and lighthearted tastes that can appeal to people of all ages and all genders. And I also despise people preferring such a cheesy and childish rendering over the original intentions even after growing up.

I even prefer the Westwood dub over FUNi's when it comes to DBZ because it caught the adventurous and lighthearted side of the series better at least.

[Kakacarrottop]

I even prefer the Westwood dub over FUNi's when it comes to DBZ because it caught the adventurous and lighthearted side of the series better at least.

Agreed. I always thought the recycled Megaman/Monster Rancher music used in the Westwood dub at least resembled the upbeat music in the Japanese version (unlike the BF score), although in a saturday morning cartoon sort of way. The Peter Berring music Ocean used in their dub of the first 13 DB episodes also sort of sounded like a synthesized equivalent to Kikuchi.

[EXBadguy]

Not to sound rude, but why are we talking about Funimation when it's not the point of this thread? I'm talking about the openings not matching what's going on in the sagas like how other SHONEN anime does it.

And I also despise people preferring such a cheesy and childish rendering over the original intentions even after growing up.

Then what is the original intentions, then? Mature and better? I'm not saying the "badass" feel is mature(even though I strongly prefer it), but I'm just saying, neither of the tones aren't really that special.

It's like a guy in his 40s preferring to play only Mario over any violent game like Metal Gear or Grand Theft Auto. No disrespect anyone here who plays Mario though.

[SaiyaJedi]

It's like a guy in his 40s preferring to play only Mario over any violent game like Metal Gear or Grand Theft Auto. No disrespect anyone here who plays Mario though.

I'm genuinely curious about this statement. Do you mean to imply that a man in his 40s in some way ought to or would naturally prefer games such as Metal Gear or Grand Theft Auto? And if so, what reasoning brings you to that conclusion? Is it the violence? The more complex storylines? The transgressive nature of, for instance, playing a car thief? And also, what bearing does it have on Dragon Ball — a series that, while sometimes quite violent, always had a fairly simple story, and was always explicitly aimed at school-age boys?

[VegettoEX]

"No offense, but here's a grossly generalized and unsubstantiated offensive statement" is not OK.

I question the life experience behind your video game argument. Violence does not inherently equal maturity or a fulfilling read/view/play. I derive enjoyment from Mario games due to the challenging gameplay escalations and feats of skill and ingenuity, not (just/solely) because "cute OMG colors and cute!!!" I'm 32. Will probably still play Mario games at 42. Will probably also still like Dragon Ball at 42.

Based on these examples alone, your entire viewpoint is in question and I'm not sure what reasonable outcome could even happen with further conversation. You seem to be making up examples to fit whatever it is your argument is... which, honestly, I can't even fully figure out (beyond: "be argumentative").

If anything, you're proving our hypothesis and FUNimation's marketing efforts of "young people think edgier is cool in spite of any other qualities".

[BlazingFiddlesticks]

The video game argument is not a clean comparison simply because video games are culturally construed as a childish pastime the world over; playing grisly games or those with more mature subject matter to appear more your age is trying to win a game that none of the people you're trying to look better for are actually playing. This is nothing about taste in games or whether or not harder-rated games are actually mature, rather just pointing out that "It's like 40 year old man playing Mario over Metal Gear and Grand Theft Auto", as a statement of proper conduct, rings hollow when the "greater sin" is "It's like a 40 year old man playing video games."

Versus Dragon Ball, which everyone in this discussion agrees is a kids series, the only stipulation being "what manner" of kids series it is. To that end, I can absolutely agree with ExBadGuy to a point. The biggest part of it is Toei wanting to get the bang for their buck, of course; no one knew how long they would use Head Cha-La, nobody knew where the series would go when Kikuchi was kept on hand when the Z monkier got attached to the show. So let's talk about purely Toei projects. What business, thematically, does Hironobu Kageyama have singing the endings for most of the Cell-era movies, Super 13, Broly, Bojack and the like, when Koyama's vision (presuming he had that kind of creative control) deviated the farthest of Toriyama's? I was watching Bojack the other day and let me tell you, try as that ending might to handwave everything you just saw under the "So once again, the day is saved!" curtain in the same manner a renaissance author might apologize for anything remotely offensive in their work, my mind was still on how shredded Gohan was.

Look at the contrast that appears in my saying that. The movie wanted to write it as Gohan's shining hour, his saving the day without fear as Vegeta, Freeza, and Cell taught him to replace the fear of child with the superhuman resilience his father had at his age, complete with a flashback credits sequence with Kageyama in the background. But I'm not sure where Gohan screaming for dear life over the bodies of the rest out-cold-for-the-sake-of-the-moment (as per movie tradition) Z-Team fits into that.

I figured Black Paladin was going to mention what he did, so rather than type out and agreement I'm just going to direct everyone to the best joke TeamFourStar has ever made.

[JulieYBM]

A script doesn't define a film. A script defines itself, but otherwise a film is a combination of hundreds of different elements. A Kageyama song isn't there merely to depict a script, it's there to be one of many elements that define the movie.

[EXBadguy]

It's like a guy in his 40s preferring to play only Mario over any violent game like Metal Gear or Grand Theft Auto. No disrespect anyone here who plays Mario though.

I'm genuinely curious about this statement. Do you mean to imply that a man in his 40s in some way ought to or would naturally prefer games such as Metal Gear or Grand Theft Auto? And if so, what reasoning brings you to that conclusion? Is it the violence? The more complex storylines? The transgressive nature of, for instance, playing a car thief?

Honestly...yes. I mean, isn't evolving a objective in life to people? It's okay to like some kid stuff, but if all you do is strictly stray away from complex stories and/or violence, even if it's tame, then you have a problem. I'm not saying you have to strictly associate with complex plots or intense violence or horror, I'm just saying that at some point of time, you have to adapt and try new things. To me, and many other people in society, that's a true meaning of an adult.

If anything, you're proving our hypothesis and FUNimation's marketing efforts of "young people think edgier is cool in spite of any other qualities".

Except that it's not the case. Never have I compared the new opening songs to the Funimation songs, I compare them to other anime opening songs that are in the SAME CATEGORY Dragon Ball's in. All I'm asking is why the constant pop music, cheeriness, and babyish-ness when other anime of the same category has theme song openings that fit the theme of their sagas. Heck, even Cha-La and We Gotta Power didn't stoop to that level.

P.S.: Toei also did the "edgy" marketing for the US, not just FUNI.

[Eire]

Tastes in fiction have nothing to do with maturity. Putting aside ridiculous statement that gore=complex plot, your statement is wrong on so many levels that it can be seen as offensive.

If we are playing confessions here: ATM I work in a place you or 99.9% people in so called First World Nations prefer not to think about. Most of the people who happen to see it leave crying or vomiting.
Usually both.
And yet my direct supervisor dresses like Capitan America. My boss collects MLP figurines. Maybe because after all things we see that happen in front of our very eyes every kind of fiction that pretends to be gory or complicated seems tame and watered down. And thank God for fiction that doesn't pretend to be serious, that "breaks" every tension with light heart humour.

[Kamiccolo9]

Tastes in fiction have nothing to do with maturity. Putting aside ridiculous statement that gore=complex plot, your statement is wrong on so many levels that it can be seen as offensive.

If we are playing confessions here: ATM I work in a place you or 99.9% people in so called First World Nations prefer not to think about. Most of the people who happen to see it leave crying or vomiting.
Usually both.
And yet my direct supervisor dress like Capitan America. My boss collect MLP figurines. Maybe because after all things we see that happen in front of our very eyes every kind of fiction that pretends to be gory or complicated seems tame and watered down. And thank God for fiction that doesn't pretend to be serious, that "breaks" every tension with light heart humour.

Exactly.

My average day last month consisted of me sitting down and reading several papers about human beings coming up with more and more efficient ways of killing each other, and having to explain to them that, no, this other guy did it "better." I'm currently planning a trip to this place in order to help out a colleague with some research. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murambi_Ge ... ial_Centre

Forgive me for deciding to sit back and relax and play some Pokemon.