A dub family tree.

[huzaifa_ahmed]

I'm looking for a branching timeline of the influence of certain dubs on other dubs, that I can't type into a simple text box.

The Japanese original dub isn't directly the source of many foreign dubs, and I have become confused myself attempting to explain the "telephone game", of sorts.

[Ozotto]

In the Danish Dub Turles is Goku's brother.

[DoomieDoomie911]

The Japanese original dub

Not to be nitpicky, but the Japanese version isn't a dub...

[huzaifa_ahmed]

The Japanese original dub

Not to be nitpicky, but the Japanese version isn't a dub...

As opposed to a pre-laid animation, it is.

[DoomieDoomie911]

The Japanese original dub

Not to be nitpicky, but the Japanese version isn't a dub...

As opposed to a pre-laid animation, it is.

"Dub (verb)- Provide (a film) with a soundtrack in a different language from the original." A dub is a copy. The original version of something is not a copy.

[Kakacarrottop]

For English dubs at least, these are the main script sources:

FUNIMATION:
1995 Blt dub
1996-1998 Saban dub (supposedly based on the Mexican dub)
1999-2003 FUNimation in-house dub (supposedly based on the Mexican dub)
2000-2002 Westwood dub (based on the FUNimation in-house dub)
2004-2006 FUNimation uncut redub (based on the Saban & Pioneer dubs)

PIONEER:
1998 Pioneer dub
2004-2006 FUNimation uncut redub (based on the Saban & Pioneer dubs)

JAPANESE VERSION:
2009-present FUNimation Kai dub

FRENCH DUB:
2003-2005 Blue Water dub
2003 Big Green dub

???:
1999 Speedy dub
80s Harmony Gold dub
90s Creative Products Corps dub

[Sayo-chan]

"Dub (verb)- Provide (a film) with a soundtrack in a different language from the original." A dub is a copy. The original version of something is not a copy.

Dub can refer to simply adding sound to a film. He's not wrong with what he's saying, you're really just nitpicking the colloquial usage.

[huzaifa_ahmed]

For English dubs at least, these are the main script sources:

FUNIMATION:
1995 Blt dub
1996-1998 Saban dub (supposedly based on the Mexican dub)
1999-2003 FUNimation in-house dub (supposedly based on the Mexican dub)
2000-2002 Westwood dub (based on the FUNimation in-house dub)
2004-2006 FUNimation uncut redub (based on the Saban & Pioneer dubs)

PIONEER:
1998 Pioneer dub
2004-2006 FUNimation uncut redub (based on the Saban & Pioneer dubs)

JAPANESE VERSION:
2009-present FUNimation Kai dub

FRENCH DUB:
2003-2005 Blue Water dub
2003 Big Green dub

???:
1999 Speedy dub
80s Harmony Gold dub
90s Creative Products Corps dub

Where are your sources for "(96-98 FUNimation-Saban-Ocean) supposedly based on Mexican dub"?
If it is as such, why is the Blue Water continuation of the Ocean dub based on the French dub?

And what do the bold headers refer to? The source of the script? If so, how can "FUNimation" and "Pioneer" be script sources? If not, how can the "FUNimation Kai dub" be the source of the Japanese version?

I must add that the Harmony Gold dub is most likely based on the Japanese version, or possibly the French version. I havent seen the French dub, but from what I saw, Harmony Gold's cast sounded eerily similar to the Japanese cast; I daresay, it's closer than FUNimation's casts for the first 10 years

[Puto]

I know for a fact that FUNimation's dubs of movie 1 and the first few episodes are likely to have used Harmony Gold's script as reference. There's some *extremely* similar lines that would be very unlikely to be a coincidence.

[usotsuki]

As well, the titles of episodes 1 and 2 are identical; minus the name reversion, so's episode 4. And the first 2 ep titles are complete guts where some of the later ones are paraphrases.

Ocean TOS and the AB "Big Green" movies seem to both have origin in French (note the use of "Dragon Ball la quête finale" as TOS's OP in that dub), although there is some Funi influence (especially on Ocean TOS) as well.

[gregoryluis09]

Brazilian Dub:

1996 DB dub: Based on Mexican dub
DBZ Dub: Based on Mexican dub
DB 2002 dub: Based on Mexican dub
DB 2006 dub: Based on Mexican dub
Unreleased DB 2010 dub: Based on original Japanese
DB and DBZ movies and specials: based on Mexican dub
Kai dub: Based on Funi Nicktoons dub (With some corrections based on the manga)
BOG and ROF: Based on original Japanese
GT dub: Based on Mexican dub

[TheBlackPaladin]

Where are your sources for "(96-98 FUNimation-Saban-Ocean) supposedly based on Mexican dub"?

Well, some clarification is in order.

The English dubs are all "based on" the original Japanese. It wasn't really "based on" the Mexican dub, but when FUNimation started dubbing using an in-house cast, the production and Toonami TV airing schedule was such that there's no way they would have made their deadlines if they had waited to receive the dubbing materials they needed (video and audio) from Toei. So, as a result of their rushed schedule, and with Toei's permission, they got their materials from the nearest source...Mexico. The distance between Mexico City, where the show was dubbed in Mexico, and Dallas, is much, much less than the distance between Dallas and Tokyo, so they really were the nearest source.

In terms of script adaptation though, they still used the original Japanese scripts as a reference (well, that and some "rather haggard" English translations provided by Toei). The only thing they got from Mexico was the video and audio materials.

As for a source, Chris Sabat, who is also the director of the dub, has said it many times. Here's one such instance (fast-forward to 1:47). Beyond that, Sean Schemmel said he never heard Masako Nozawa's voice until 2004, and Sonny Strait also said in an interview with Kanzenshuu (maaaaaany years ago, still Daizenshuu EX at the time) that the Spanish version is what he had to look at for Bardock. It's a giant interview, but here's the relevant quote:

With Bardock, I asked John if beforehand could we just sit down and talk about this, and analyze the character, rather than just jumping into it, and he said "Well, if you want to. Sounds like a good idea." So we spent a couple of days just sitting down and watching it. I'd asked for the original Japanese version, but at the time all we had was the Spanish version, and we watched that, which still had the original Japanese music in it, which I thought was really cool.

Hopefully that clears it up.

[huzaifa_ahmed]

Where are your sources for "(96-98 FUNimation-Saban-Ocean) supposedly based on Mexican dub"?

Well, some clarification is in order.

The English dubs are all "based on" the original Japanese. It wasn't really "based on" the Mexican dub, but when FUNimation started dubbing using an in-house cast, the production and Toonami TV airing schedule was such that there's no way they would have made their deadlines if they had waited to receive the dubbing materials they needed (video and audio) from Toei. So, as a result of their rushed schedule, and with Toei's permission, they got their materials from the nearest source...Mexico. The distance between Mexico City, where the show was dubbed in Mexico, and Dallas, is much, much less than the distance between Dallas and Tokyo, so they really were the nearest source.

In terms of script adaptation though, they still used the original Japanese scripts as a reference (well, that and some "rather haggard" English translations provided by Toei). The only thing they got from Mexico was the video and audio materials.

As for a source, Chris Sabat, who is also the director of the dub, has said it many times. Here's one such instance (fast-forward to 1:47). Beyond that, Sean Schemmel said he never heard Masako Nozawa's voice until 2004, and Sonny Strait also said in an interview with Kanzenshuu (maaaaaany years ago, still Daizenshuu EX at the time) that the Spanish version is what he had to look at for Bardock. It's a giant interview, but here's the relevant quote:

With Bardock, I asked John if beforehand could we just sit down and talk about this, and analyze the character, rather than just jumping into it, and he said "Well, if you want to. Sounds like a good idea." So we spent a couple of days just sitting down and watching it. I'd asked for the original Japanese version, but at the time all we had was the Spanish version, and we watched that, which still had the original Japanese music in it, which I thought was really cool.

Hopefully that clears it up.

I knew all that. I was wondering about the Saban-Ocean original from the 1990's. We only got that information from Sabat, never,say, Gen Fukunaga or Terry Klassen or anyone who might have worked on it prior to 2000 or so.

[DBZMerciter2005]

Beyond that, Sean Schemmel said he never heard Masako Nozawa's voice until 2004...

That's very interesting. I wonder if his Goku would have been different had he heard her version before he started dubbing.

[DrBriefsCat]

I knew all that. I was wondering about the Saban-Ocean original from the 1990's. We only got that information from Sabat, never,say, Gen Fukunaga or Terry Klassen or anyone who might have worked on it prior to 2000 or so.

Most likely the Japanese version. Some claim Peter Kelamis' Goku is based on Masako Nozawa's performance.

[TheBlackPaladin]

I know that they were using the Mexican version's video and audio (but, as discussed before, not their scripts) when they moved to an in-house cast. Before that, though.....well, we're not sure, but we have very strong reason to suspect that they were using the Japanese version. Peter Kelamis, in uttering perhaps my favorite Dragon Ball-related quote of his, said...

I have seen and heard the Japanese version only during recordings of the show. There are times when the producer actually has to check direct translations to see if they make sense. The level and emotion of the original performance is attempted to be re-created but not the voice. If I tried to re-create the original voice I think I would run the risk of hitting a note so high that I may not be able to have children in future life.

On top of directly stating that he saw the Japanese version, he also made reference to "hitting a note so high," in which case he definitely wasn't talking about the Mexican version. Mario Castañeda, who plays Goku in that dub, has a reasonably deep voice.

That's very interesting. I wonder if his Goku would have been different had he heard her version before he started dubbing.

Me too, actually. The process for dubbing is such that dialogue is recorded on a line-by-line basis, and before the English voice actors record each line, they listen to what the line sounded like in "the original audio" so they can get a feel for the emotional context they should be going for. I say "original audio" instead of "original Japanese," because in this case they didn't have the original Japanese audio for previewing/dubbing purposes. The "original audio" of what they were provided was the Latino Spanish dub.

For that matter, I've wondered that about all the in-house dub cast members. After all, it wasn't just Schemmel, it doesn't sound like anybody on the cast had the means of hearing their Japanese counterparts until 2004, when they finally had the original Japanese audio to reference during the dubbing recording sessions.

The usual question that comes up after this is, "But they put out the Japanese audio on the DVDs, didn't they?" Yes, they did, but after the recording for the dubbing was done. They would get the original Japanese audio eventually, but not before they needed to have the episodes ready for Toonami to air.

[huzaifa_ahmed]

I know that they were using the Mexican version's video and audio (but, as discussed before, not their scripts) when they moved to an in-house cast. Before that, though.....well, we're not sure, but we have very strong reason to suspect that they were using the Japanese version. Peter Kelamis, in uttering perhaps my favorite Dragon Ball-related quote of his, said...

I have seen and heard the Japanese version only during recordings of the show. There are times when the producer actually has to check direct translations to see if they make sense. The level and emotion of the original performance is attempted to be re-created but not the voice. If I tried to re-create the original voice I think I would run the risk of hitting a note so high that I may not be able to have children in future life.

On top of directly stating that he saw the Japanese version, he also made reference to "hitting a note so high," in which case he definitely wasn't talking about the Mexican version. Mario Castañeda, who plays Goku in that dub, has a reasonably deep voice.

That's very interesting. I wonder if his Goku would have been different had he heard her version before he started dubbing.

Me too, actually. The process for dubbing is such that dialogue is recorded on a line-by-line basis, and before the English voice actors record each line, they listen to what the line sounded like in "the original audio" so they can get a feel for the emotional context they should be going for. I say "original audio" instead of "original Japanese," because in this case they didn't have the original Japanese audio for previewing/dubbing purposes. The "original audio" of what they were provided was the Latino Spanish dub.

For that matter, I've wondered that about all the in-house dub cast members. After all, it wasn't just Schemmel, it doesn't sound like anybody on the cast had the means of hearing their Japanese counterparts until 2004, when they finally had the original Japanese audio to reference during the dubbing recording sessions.

The usual question that comes up after this is, "But they put out the Japanese audio on the DVDs, didn't they?" Yes, they did, but after the recording for the dubbing was done. They would get the original Japanese audio eventually, but not before they needed to have the episodes ready for Toonami to air.

Is "2004" mid-GT, "Ultimate Uncut" re-dub, or video games? I've heard originally it was the video games, but it might have applied to GT and the re-dub of the Canadian dub.

[SaiyamanMS]

Is "2004" mid-GT, "Ultimate Uncut" re-dub, or video games? I've heard originally it was the video games, but it might have applied to GT and the re-dub of the Canadian dub.

Budokai was released in December 2002, the first DVD volume of GT was April 2003, the first volume of the Ultimate Uncut was April 2005. Maybe he was mistaken about 2004, because there wouldn't have been anything other than Japanese to listen to for the first video game? (... Unless he didn't listen to anything at all, which would be odd.)

[Pokewhiz7]

I don't know about the schedule of when things were dubbed, but if it's any indication of anything, the first Budokai game came out in Europe and North America before Japan, and the European release apparently had only English voices.

[UltimateHammerBro]

(... Unless he didn't listen to anything at all, which would be odd.)

I find that really unlikely. Video game dubbing is usually done without video, so the audio (and at least nowadays, the audio wave) is the only way to synchronise the new dialogue.

I don't know about the schedule of when things were dubbed, but if it's any indication of anything, the first Budokai game came out in Europe and North America before Japan, and the European release apparently had only English voices.

I don't think that means anything. American films are sometimes released in other countries, dubbed, before their US premiere.
Also, other DBZ games released in Europe had English as the only audio track.