For those who dont know DBZ Uncensored was an old site devoted to pointing out everything wrong and sometimes right with the old dubs. Yes I'm aware its old but I had to do this because I thought there was a lot wrong with it and because many people agree with it to this day. But remember that this all is one guy's opinion. Tell me what you think of my commentary!
Accepting critique but flames will be ignored.
Also no harassment to either me or Chris Psaros.
original link is here: http://dbzu.3gkai.com/opinions/cpsaros.html
DISCLAIMER: This deals with Season 1-2 of the dub, I wont be covering season 3 onwards because I mostly agree with him from there and I wouldnt be saying anything new.
Chris Psaros is bold and I'm normal
Now without further ado welcome to...............
VS.
Look What They've Done To My Show!
Interesting title.
If watching the original Japanese DBZ is like drinking freshly-squeezed orange juice, then watching the English version is like drinking Tang. They're both based on the same flavor, but the Tang is artificial, unsatisfying, tasteless, and a cheap imitation of the real thing.
Well I love Tang so we're already at a disagreement.
Maybe it's the melodramatic voice acting and stupid dialogue.
What is melodramatic about actually matching the character's expression?
Hes using words but doesnt even know what they mean.
The dialogue was mixed, sometimes it was good and sometimes it was bad.
Maybe it's the wretched theme song
Its love it or hate it I suppose.
or the synthesized,hollow, emotionless background "music."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJeVdf9OwKM
So emotionless and hollow!
Or maybe it's just a personal thing, and I have too much invested in the original to accept ANY kind of change.
Could be but you're not alone.
But of course it's all of these things together that have added up to this new "thing" that FUNimation has dared to call Dragon Ball Z. Everytime I watch the English version, something about it just feels terribly wrong. It's like the spirit, the core, the humanity has been sucked out of it, and all that's left is an empty shell. It's frustrating for me to try to put it into words, because I can't. It's just a feeling I have.
REALLY exaggerating.
What is that NOISE in the background?
This may sound a little strange, but the music is definetely my biggest problem with the English version, and I think the fans have been far too lenient on FUNimation for changing it.
Maybe thats because the music is good on its own merits. Its not the BEST dub music (the BLT DB and Westwood Ocean OSTs are but it's good.
Especially since what they are using now is crap, and doesn't fit the spirit of the show at all.
Starting to think he doesnt know what crap means either.
I don't think people realize how much of an effect music has on the overall perception of any kind of film, including TV programs, and just how important of a role it plays. To me, the music is just as important as the voices, the directing, even the animation itself. When you change the music, you change the show at its very roots.
This is a very good point. Music really does set the atmosphere.
One of the things I have always enjoyed most about the Dragon Ball series is the BGM. I don't think I have ever heard a score, television or film, that so perfectly fits.
Animaniacs
Batman TAS
Astro Boy (any)
Superman TAS
Although I agree that DB has amazing soundtrack.
The music written for this show has a very distinctive sound, and it captures everything that DB is about. It can be quirky, it can be sad, it can be exciting, always with just a touch of melodrama, and it always manages to stay so true to the characters and visuals.
Didnt he JUST say melodrama was bad?
The new score by Kossa Mahehi and Shuki Levy, quite frankly, disgusts me. This music (and I use the term loosely) is abysmal; I have heard better pressing the "demo" button on an electronic keyboard.
I want his electronic keyboard...
This garbage is not even in the same league as the original BGM, and it leaves me wondering why in the world they would replace such a rich, vibrant soundtrack with THIS. It's just so static, undynamic, and plastic.
See the link I posted earlier.
This garbage is not even in the same league as the original BGM, and it leaves me wondering why in the world they would replace such a rich, vibrant soundtrack with THIS. It's just so static, undynamic, and plastic. It never goes anywhere, never makes any decisive statements or produces any memorable themes.
Wasnt every anime replacing music at the time?
And it never, ever, stops, either. From the moment the episode begins to the moment it ends, this dismal, uninspired crap is droning on and on endlessly in the background. They don't seem to understand the power of silence for dramatic effect, such as in those scenes where the only sound is that of the wind blowing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAdQXmwCJco
It's easy to see the point I'm trying to make when one compares certain scenes of the Japanese version with the corresponding English ones. I have found that the new music shows it's true powerlessness most evidently during scenes of great emotion, such as the death sequences. I will never forget when I finally saw Chaozu's death in the original version, because I realized at that moment what an incredible injustice it, and so many other scenes, had been done in their altering.
I agree with this example but this is cherry picking.
(35 Japanese, 26 English): The scene where Kuririn is about to finish Vegeta off plays much differently in the original version. It's not just because it lasts almost a full minute longer, it's also the slow, gentle, and hopeful music used, which gives a certain nobility to Goku's plea that Kuririn show mercy. It also makes the agony of Kuririn's decision even more apparent, since the pain over the deaths of his friends is really brought out by the slow pace and mournful sound of the piece. You don't feel any of this in the English version, especially since, on top of the emotionless music, the scene has been trimmed down to a great extent, taking away all of its tension and importance.
Agree but it wasnt the worst choice, at least the song used was more quiet and almost blended in.
(51 Japanese, 39 English): When Goku's friends arrive at Kaiou's and contact him telepathically. This part is so heartwarming and... significant in the original version. Just through the music and performances you can feel how happy Goku is to hear that his friends are ok, and you can sense the history and the bond between them all. In the English one, it's like, oh... wow... those guys again... hmm...
Kind of agreed.
(Every episode) When the episode title appears onscreen. Japanese version: hopeful, inspiring, adventurous. English version: foreboding, low-key, almost threatening.
I think BOXINGMAN127 said it better than me:
However at the same time I must give credit to Shuki Levy's soundtrack as because despite the cheesy title cards, it really gives each episode a foreboding dark atmosphere beforehand. It's like the music is just calling out saying "You should be afraid of what's coming" and I like that.
Rock the Dragon? WHAT THE HELL IS THAT???
And now we come to the issue of the theme song. Yes, the BGM bothers me, but this pile of musical feces is absolutely inexcusable. I have never heard a song so utterly lacking in intelligence, charisma, and lyrical relevance. This is an insult and an embarassment to Dragon Ball and its fans, as well as a slap in the face to everyone involved with the original production.
I think its catchy so I wouldnt say its a complete failure.
Watch the original Japanese opening and compare it with the American one. Notice the feeling of adventure and inspiration created by the music and visuals; you get a sense of hope and inner strength, it charges you with raw energy.
You can say that about Rock the Dragon.
The American opening is absolutely moronic in contrast. It is nothing but scenes of the characters bashing away at each other, set to this nightmarish, repetitive song where the same idiotic, ambiguous phrase is repeated over and over again.
Repetitive doesnt necessarily mean bad.
Theme songs (and music in general) have an importance that is almost totally overlooked in American television, particularly children's programming. Anyone who doubts the influence of theme songs should remember that a good one can sometimes be more popular than the show itself (Speed Racer, the 1970's Spiderman animated series)
True again.
The opening sets the tone for the show, and the FUNimation DBZ opening, being totally mindless, sets a tone of mindlessness. It creates an atmosphere of thoughtless, random aggression, far from what Dragon Ball Z is really supposed to be about.
Thats an interpretation.
Considering the fact that this is such a TV violence-paranoid society, I wonder why they would replace the original opening, which is MUCH more cinematic, symbolic and pleasing to the senses than theirs, with almost all original animation and without a single act of violence, with one that is nothing more than a collection of fight scenes, recycled footage cut together from the movies.
The show itself has violence and soccer moms/SJWs will complain no mater what so why not at least appeal to their aimed audience?
It's rather ironic that FUNimation uses the violence of this show to appeal to potential viewers, yet this same violence is watered down to the point of ridiculousness in the program itself.
There are limits.
"Rock the Dragon"
performed by some utterly talentless moron
OH HARHAR VERY FUNNY
"Bokutachi wa Tenshi Datta" (We Used to be Angels)
performed by Hironobu Kageyama
Hes comparing an intro to an ending but I'll let it slide since the dub used an instumental version of their intro.
The original one is obviously better but the dub has its appeal.
It is a testament to what an extent FUNimation has willfully disgraced, and will continue to willfully disgrace, this wonderful anime, and just how much they can strip it of. It is a testament to how little they see in it, and how little they care about how much of its true intelligence is retained in the English version
Does anyone really believe they would willingly screw it over?
Skipping: More reiterating.
Interviewer: Will the Japanese theme song be included at all in the US broadcast of Dragon Ball Z? If not, how did you decide what type of music would be used?
Fukunaga:No, we composed a new theme... I'm told it's of the sort that's very popular among American children now.
Later in the interview...
Fukunaga: One of the things we really feel is that [DBZ] is unique. For most American cartoons, you can look at it and say that it's just like five others, but we think that Dragon Ball is unique...
Looks to me like she's contradicting herself. First she says that they were looking for a theme that sounded like everything else on American airwaves, and then she is complimenting the show's uniqueness.
How did Cindy contradict herself?
She said the theme composed is the kind thats popular among American children at the time and then said the show itself was unique
Ironic maybe but theres no contradiction.
Dragon Ball Z is unique, and FUNimation should be exploiting that for all it's worth. Make it stand out from the crowd by having an opening theme song that blows away all the mindless drek out there. (And yes, unfortunately, she's right. Most cartoons these days have theme songs that sound a lot like "Rock the Dragon.") But why can't DBZ be different? Be adventurous. Set a NEW trend. Have a theme song with lyrics the likes of which no one has ever heard on a "children's cartoon." If Japanese kids are smart enough to understand intelligent lyrics, why shouldn't American kids be? Why is FUNimation encouraging the dumbing down of American media rather than fighting it with a quality alternative?
A lot of openings at the time werent exactly like the Japanese ones but they werent really like RtD either.
The only one I can think of offhand is Buttugly Martians but that came out after the dub.
That's not really Freeza's voice is it? The Trials and Tribulations of English Dubbing
Sadly it was....
As far as the general fan population is concerned, I have gathered that most are either dissatisfied with the dubbing, or don't really mind it that much. Very few like it to any great extent, and the only people who actually prefer the English voices are the ones who were introduced to DBZ through the dubbed version.
Internet users are a minority.
This is one of the few areas of the English production that really doesn't bother me so much, the dubbing to me is good enough to not really be a concern, not as much as the background music, the scripting, the censoring, or the overall presentation of the show, anyway. Perhaps I've become desensitized, but I have just seen so many terribly dubbed anime that I must (grudgingly) admit that this is some of the best voice acting I have ever heard in a dub (Not in all of animation mind you, I'm strictly talking about dubbed anime). These people are professionals, and many of the actors are really very good.
AGREE!
Goku (Ian Corlett, Peter Kelamis) I thought Ian's voice was perfect, and I only truly appreciated what a beautiful voice this guy had once he stopped doing the voice, he really had what it takes to carry the show on his shoulders. What happened to him, anyway? He's still credited as a writer on the show, why can't he do Goku anymore?
As far as Peter is concerned... well, I really hated him at first. I absolutely could not stand him and was convinced that I would have to actually stop watching the show because his voice bothered me so much. However, maybe I'm just getting used to it, but I really liked his performance in the last two episodes of the season. His incredibly annoying accent wasn't so thick anymore, and he seems to be gaining confidence and getting the hang of the character. I haven't written him off just yet, and I'm actually starting to like his voice. He will never replace Ian, but I think he's tolerable.
I always liked Peter even if he sounds a bitt oo young for the character but hes good. Agree that Ian was the best one (well until Kirby Morrow but the Westwood dub didnt exist yet.....
Gohan (Saffron Henderson) I don't like this voice, and I never have. It's not that she's a bad actress, it's just that this voice simply doesn't capture Gohan's purity and innocence. The low scratchiness of it is just so ugly and distracting, as opposed to Masako Nozawa's brilliant portrayal. Saffron has her moments, though.
It does capture those things and its not low or scratchy- she sounds like a young boy.
Kuririn (Terry Klassen) I got used to this voice, so it doesn't bother me as much as it used to. It must have been very hard to find a voice for this character that would match his appearance, so I'm willing to be a little more lenient for him. Terry's line delivery can sometimes be REALLY annoying though.
Never really liked it all that much so lets move on.
Piccolo (Scott McNeil) Probably my favorite of all the English DBZ voices, in some ways I prefer him to Toshio Furukawa. He gives the character a demonic sound, (which Piccolo should definetely have), and he's just a damn good actor.
Freeza (Pauline Newstone) *shiver* Just what the HELL were they thinking? No, Freeza is NOT supposed to sound like an old woman with a tracheotomy! His voice should be deep, and powerful, and MALE! WHY THE HELL DID THEY GIVE HIM A WOMAN'S VOICE?? My least favorite of all the English DBZ cast, perhaps because I love his (unbelievably cool-sounding) Japanese voice so much.
Could not agree more.
Vegeta (?) When I first heard this voice, my heart almost stopped, I thought I was having a nightmare. This could NOT be Vegeta. All the other fans felt the same, and this was a fairly unanimous verdict. As the first season went on, though, I kind of got used to it, and by the time the second came around the actor seemed to have changed the voice slightly, and by then it didn't bother me any more. I still think he should sound more regal and... well... human, but you have to admit, the guy has a VERY distinctive and memorable way of doing the character, and is extremely charismatic.
He does sound like a human being?
Buruma (Lalainia Lindbjerg) Doesn't bother me at all, and she seems to have a 99% approval rating among the fans (not counting my brother, boy does he HATE her voice). Perhaps my only problem with her is that her interpretation of the character is WAY more bitchy than the original was intended to be.
Shes just not Wendee Lee
but she's good.Yamucha (Ted Cole) One of the best voices FUNimation got for this show, without a doubt. He actually sounds a lot like the real Yamucha, and he's one of the few cast members who actually has a natural-sounding voice, (as opposed to most of them, who are overacting, or doing a "type")
Chaozu (Cathy Weseluck) Perfect. What else can I say? Actually, Cathy Weseluck is one of my favorite voices out of all the NA anime dub seiyuu. Her Shampoo is AWESOME.
Again agreed.
Tenshinhan (?) I wish his voice sounded more mature and natural, the one they are using now is just so nasal and adolescent. He sounds too much like he's trying to be a "tough guy." I did think, however, that his performance during the battle with the Saiya-jin (especially Chaozu's death) was excellent.
Why does it have to sound more mature when its high enough? In the beginning maybe but he got better overtime.
Chichi (Lisa Ann-Beley) I really like the sound of her voice (I bet she's a great singer), and I hope she continues doing it, but its not quite right for Chichi, who should sound more innocent and... well... dumb. She's got the bitchiness down perfectly, though.
I dont think she was bitchy enough which is good. And I really do not think it should sound more dumb and innocent either.
Kaiou (David Ward) They really screwed up on this one. The whole point with Kaiou is that he's supposed to be a wise, omniscient type, but is getting a little confused and senile in his old age - the source of his terrible sense of humor. David Ward just makes him sound like some fat moron.
Have to agree unfortunately..
Narrator (Doc Harris) Don't get me wrong, Doc has an incredible voice, and he does the job well, but this "action movie announcer" sound REALLY detracts from the mythical aspect of DBZ, something that is already hurt by using that ultra-modern synthesizer music. In the Japanese version, the narrator is Joji Yanami, the same person who does Kaiou. Having an old man do the narration gives the show that essential "legend" quality.
Why exactly does he have to be old?
He really doesnt sound that much like an announcer from an action movie.
Minor Characters I have found something rather frustrating about many of the supporting cast: their voices are generally better than the main characters! Example: Gyuumaou (Ox King) This guy is GREAT! He sounds EXACTLY like the Japanese actor! Zarbon: KICK ASS! The Aussie accent was kind of wierd, but I think they really need to use Paul Dobson more, I hope he does Cell. Buruma's mom: PERFECT! Puar: AWESOME! They did a great job finding voices for these people, why couldn't they find an appropriate voice for Freeza?
they're good but I dont place them above most of the main cast.
Of course, some of the minor characters also have terrible voices, the worst of whom is Karin, who sounds like a New York Jew. This Harvey Fierstein-sounding voice is just awful. Yet another character they should have gotten an old man to do.
You mean to tell me that this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=es9qInZ3CcA couldnt find one from Saban.
sounds like this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnPiKjzTi3Y
And honestly looking at Harvey Fierstein's face and Korin i wouldnt mind them sounding similar
Parachutes and The Next Dimension: The Dialogue Which Makes Us Cringe
Oh boy....
OK, so the voices aren't terrible, I can deal with them. And the dialogue, about 70% of the time, is acceptable. It certainly isn't a dead-on translation (or even remotely close at times), but I happpen to think that its better to have dialogue that sounds good in the language that is being spoken, than to have dialogue that's embarrasingly bad, but an exact translation. So long as the same general idea is conveyed, I have no problem.
But it's that other 30% that is the problem. When not only the original meaning is completely washed away, but a different one entirely is inserted.
Youre complaining about only 30%? Really?
With the English DBZ, there are a lot of, well, really stupid-sounding lines. There is far too much (unintended) comedy, and most of this comedy is actually really bad. Once in a while there will be a joke that will make me chuckle, and every now and then, something truly ingenious, but FUNimation's batting average isn't too great. I am particularly annoyed with the constant references to North American pop culture, which not only don't make sense in the context of the show, but are TOTALLY out of place in DBZ.
He has some examples on his episode comparisons but they're all mostly overblown.
They make me groan with embarrassment and frustration every time I hear lines like: (Goku to Kaiou) "Somebody stop me!" or (Recoome to Bahta and Jees) "I like to watch soap operas" Please. No more of this.
Why do those lines suck? because the Japanese version didnt contain them?
And there are even occasional references to the Christian religion, (which I don't necessarily have anything against), that are just as out of place as the humor, if not more. I'm sorry, but I do NOT want to hear Piccolo (who is supposed to be a demon) saying "Obviously you've never heard the story of David and Goliath,"
Why wouldnt a demon know bible stories?
Even atheists know them, just not in detail.
Satan knows God right? he would want to use that knowledge to gain whatever advantage he can over him.
Sorry for the over preachy bible lesson let's move on
or Kuririn, a Buddhist monk, reciting a Christian prayer "Now I lay me down to sleep..." This is just wrong for so many reasons.
It can also be used in general even though its said the same as the Christian prayer
Another tragic loss in the translation is something of whose importance to fans FUNimation probably has no idea: the special attacks (ki-ais), which have been totally mistranslated for the most part. Most of the time, in fact, they aren't even translated at all, and simply come out as "AAAAUUGGH!!"
*sigh*......
This is a big disappointment, as the attacks are such an important part of the fun of DBZ. Kamehameha is mispronounced
People say that all the time but i either haven't seen any episodes where it happened or i misheard it as the correct way.
I know about Kaioken not being pronounced right though
Another problem with the dialogue is that there's just too damned much of it. There are a lot of scenes where the characters are not supposed to be saying anything, and it seems like whenever anyone's mouth is not shown, FUNimation will take that opportunity to have someone start blabbing away.
And this is a problem because?
Skipping: theorizing
Part of the problem with the dialogue overall is that it is being written down to the level of young children, or at least what FUNimation perceives as the level of young children. Again, the interview cited above is relevant here:
Lets see it then.
Fukunaga: The first Dragon Ball... was doing quite well with men, too, all the way up into their mid-20s. The story itself is actually for a higher age group than the basic audience target...
THEN WHY ARE YOU TARGETING 6-YEAR OLDS??? THE SHOW IS DOING BETTER WITH TEENAGERS THAN IT IS WITH YOUNG KIDS, ANYWAY!!
Because of censorship laws?
Besides, even if the audience target is very young, that doesn't mean the dialogue has to be stifled. The old Warner Brothers cartoons taught us that writing can be done at many levels, and can be accomplished in such a way that both kids and adults can enjoy it equally. By dumbing DBZ down to the lowest common denominator, they are cutting off a great deal of older potential fans.
This is a dub you are talking about not their own creation
Also those shows are more flexible than DBZ
And then there's the dialogue carefully written for that "other" purpose, which is a whole different ball of wax. I think you all know what I'm talking about. Yup, the lines that exist to sanitize the show for North American television. Including, but certainly not limited to, that bit of cop-out dialogue that DBZ fans shall forever quote with ridicule and disgust: the infamous "another dimension."
I might have agreed with you, Or at least partially agreed if you did NOT bring up another dimension.
There IS another dimension in the series.
Part of the reason why this line is such an issue among fans is because it represents just how ridiculous the censoring of DBZ actually is.
Because Snake Way, King Kai's planet and the like are dub creations.
But the worst thing about this line is not how stupid it sounds or how ridiculously ineffective it is at doing whatever it's trying to do, it is just so incredibly dehumanizing. How are we supposed to identify with a world of characters who DON'T DIE??
Wha -....
...I'm not even going to say anything. this speaks for itself.
How dare FUNimation berate the intelligence of their viewers by trying to deny the existence of death. And what are they accomplishing anyway? Are they trying to appease parents? What you see on the screen is that an act of violence caused someone to not exist anymore. What difference does it make what WORDS you use?? The kid watching it is going to tell his friend that "Yamucha DIED in that episode" he sure as HELL isn't going to say that "Yamucha got sent to another dimension," regardless of the dialogue that was actually spoken. Who do they think they're fooling with this insanity?
Based on the amount of fanfics that used the phrase it seemed believeablea t the time.
https://www.fanfiction.net/s/49736/1/Goku-s-Pain year: 2000
https://www.fanfiction.net/s/968533/1/T ... Bad-Vegeta year: 2002
https://www.fanfiction.net/s/10076226/1 ... e-Almighty year: 2014
I rest my case.
And it certainly doesn't stop with this "other dimension" crap. Vegeta and Nappa land and blow up a city. But don't worry! According to the news reporter, everyone got evacuated in time! Oh sure, it took all of TEN SECONDS to evacuate an ENTIRE CITY! Just a little bit of a logic problem there.
unfortunately i agree, this wasnt done well.
Nappa blows up a news helicopter, but everything's alright because Tenshinhan "can see their parachutes, they're ok!" I honestly came close to vomiting when I heard that line.
This was pretty bad but hes making a big deal.
If they really can't say "die" for some reason, I wish they would use something, anything, besides "another dimension." That just sounds so... scientific and clinical. Once again, I must stress that this show should have a legendary, mythical quality, and they don't use physics terms in myths. Why not "next world" or "netherworld" or "after world" or even "afterlife" instead? The word "die" wouldn't actually be used, but any of these sound infinetely better.
This is the only point i can agree with even if it personally comes off as nitpicking to me.
According to FUNimation, "die" can't be said because it isn't allowed on children's programming. Well I've got news for you, they're lying. Flat out lying. I can cite SEVERAL examples of cartoons that not only use this word often, but show ONSCREEN DEATH. Batman: The Animated Series, The Real Adventures of Jonny Quest, Robotech, the list could go on and on. All of these shows seem to have no problem with the "death" issue, as a matter of fact, DBZ seems to be the ONLY one that does! This is VERY odd, since DBZ is syndicated, and Batman: TAS (for example) exists in the network environment, which you would think would have much more stringent guidelines for these types of things. So how do you explain this, FUNimation? Especially since the first four episodes of DBZ were chock full of the words "die" and "kill" on their first airing. Did the FCC suddenly pass a law that only you are aware of?
Or, perhaps, are you buckling under to pressure from the censors and parents, or paranoid that your precious advertisers will be scared away if you say this naughty word? It is this tendency of FUNimation to "play it safe," and to put their financial and personal interests before the artistic integrity of their property, and then LYING TO FANS ABOUT IT, that truly disgusts me.
most likely because DBZ was popular and soccer moms would have been quicker to take notice and complain.
The last thing I have to say about this subject is that I honestly don't think the show is going to go off the air if they use the word "death." The "moral majority" isn't going to like this show no matter HOW much FUNimation tries to sweeten it up. It is violent by nature, and there's no getting around that. FUNimation should be standing up and FIGHTING for the right for this show to be seen as it was meant to be seen, not being the lapdogs for the whims of every paranoid censor or parent in the country.
See above.
WOW! These guys don't have blood!
Neither did many other action shows!
And now we come to that oh-so-clever FUNimation "digital paint" technique, with which they have oh-so tidily covered up everything that could be considered slightly offensive. This includes, blood, nudity, naughty words, and even a decapitation, at one point.
I don't have much to say about this, except for the fact that I think it's unwarranted in many instances. I've seen blood on many cartoons,
Yet he doesnt name them or list examples. I could look it up myself but the burden of proof is on him not me.
but this is yet another thing that Dragon Ball Z, (and apparently only Dragon Ball Z) can not show. And of course there was the famous "Hell" episode, in which the ogre's shirts were painted over to read "HFIL." That's funny... if you can't show, or say, "Hell" on children's TV, then why did the Animaniacs visit the place (and meet Satan, no less!) on one occasion? (And I should like to mention that Animaniacs is targeted at a YOUNGER audience than DBZ.)
Because Funimation portrayed hell the way it was in the actual show/manga... no wait that was Akira Toriyama
Did Animaniacs actually say the word though? didnt think so.
In all fairness to FUNimation, though, I should like to point out that even the Japanese animated series has been toned down somewhat from the original manga. For example, when Tenshinhan gets his forearm knocked off by Nappa, that thing is just GUSHING blood in the comic. In the anime, the blood is significantly lessened. And of course, in the NA series it isn't there it all. So some of these censors are actually three-tiered. It would appear that even Japanese television has standards, quite a bit more sane than ours, but they are there nonetheless.
At least you acknowledge the original Japanese version isnt blameless
All of that notwithstanding, I do have a theory that FUNimation uses this technique for some other reason, not just for the purposes of censoring. What that is (and why) I can only guess (To show it off? To keep the painters employed? Who knows?), but the fact is, they use it for NO REASON sometimes. In episode one, for example, there is a scene where Raditz is holding Gohan, who has tears streaming out of his eyes. Strangely enough the tears are actually painted away. I can't think of any reason why this would have been done. Just one of many mysteries, I guess.
They might have wanted Gohan to come off as more tough? Idk and yeah it is a weird edit.
The cutting room floor
The series, particularly the first season, has been suffering some major editing throughout its run so far. While I find this to be unfortunate, and a definite concern, this is also what bothers me least of all the problems with the English version; I think there are good aspects of some things being cut.
The rest of this section is him saying that cuts improve pacing and cutting out filler content is okay but they shouldnt cut important scenes. I agree again!
...but I guess it could be worse
After all that I've said, it may seem like I hate the English version of DBZ with a purple passion.
*snickers* purple passion.
That's actually not the case. When someone gets up on their soapbox and starts ranting and raving about something (like I'm doing now) it's easy to dismiss them as an overzealous militant without any sense of objectivity. If my criticisms are to be taken seriously, I think it's necessary for me to say something positive about the English version, if for no other reason than to show that I am looking at this situation with a fair and open mind.
He talks about Robotech/Macross and how DBZ fared better but idk anything about that.
So what HAS FUNimation done right? Several things, actually. The character's names are (for the most part) unchanged, which is VERY rare in an English translation. I like this because I think names are important amd really make a difference in how characters are known to people. The scripting and voice acting, while certainly plagued with problems, are still a cut above most dubbed anime. The story has been kept intact to a surprising degree, and the characters have retained their personalities fairly well. The dialogue is really well-done every now and then, and they've actually fixed a few things I never liked in the Japanese version. For example, In the Japanese show, Goku, Tenshinhan, Yamucha, etc. are known collectively as "The Z Soldiers." In the English version, they are "The Defenders of Earth," which I think is a whole lot better and less corny-sounding. "Z Soldiers" is actually something I would have expected FUNimation to come up with.
I like that name and "Earth's Special Forces" too. but Z Fighters doesnt sound that bad until you realize theres a series before Z and then you get into GT and Super... (NO CANON DEBATES!)
And there are other aspects of the overall presentation that are better than the Japanese version. For one thing, the video is greatly enhanced, vibrant and alive, and the sound is of at least 10 times greater quality. It is a rich, booming stereo, while the Japanese version has a subdued, hollow monaural soundtrack. It's the kind of thing you need a good sound system to notice, but when you do, you REALLY do. And the neat CG animations for the episode titles are often my favorite part of the episode! They've gotten really creative with some of these, and they look terrific.
never really noticed the sound quality but thats awesome.
I wish Funimation continued making the CG titles too.
(He brings up the T shirts and how good they are but since he didnt post any pictures or anything I wouldnt know what hes talking about. Also brings up how great Pioneer is with maarketing and video releases.)
As far as the censoring is concerned, I know that not all of it can be blamed on FUNimation playing it safe. There are definetely some strict guidelines out there for what can and can't be done, and I know FUNimation is under a lot of pressure. And let's face it, this show is INCREDIBLY violent compared to most cartoons out there.
exactly so your complaining from earlier is null and void.
People are constantly being stabbed, crushed, blasted, pummelled, vaporized, blown up, decapitated, or otherwise brutalized, and I'm surprised that so many of these scenes have stayed intact.
And its not just the censoring, that must be altered, either. FUNimation has to get out there and sell this show, and explain it, and make it look "profitable" to, an endless parade of guys in suits. Network executives, toy manufacturers, censors, etc., and there are definite adjustments that have to be made to make it appear palatable to people who know nothing about Dragon Ball, or anime, or Japanese culture itself, and who only see dollar signs.
And finally, something I think all DBZ fans in North America will have to confess. The existence of the English version is probably the one thing keeping the Dragon Ball Z fandom alive here. Let's face it, both the manga and TV series are long since over and done with, and, in Japan, DBZ fans have all moved on to new things. I myself was getting a little burned out on DBZ, until the English version came along and made things interesting again. For those of us in the US, the English version is something to chew on and bitch about, and it's bringing new fans into the fold all the time.
Thats an interesting way of looking at it.
This site certainly wouldn't exist if it wasn't for the English version,
I guess that could be a con. Then again without the site i wouldnt be doing this commentary... still a con.
and I at least have to thank FUNimation for giving me something to happily waste my time on.
Quote of the day
Who do I blame?
The answer to this question may seem obvious to most of you, but no, it is not who you are thinking. This may sound a little surprising, but before anyone else, I hold Shueisha, TOEI Animation, and Akira Toriyama himself personally responsible for what has been done to Dragon Ball Z in the States. Before you get the rope, let me explain what I mean. When the rights to DBZ were sold to FUNimation, a contract was drawn up between the original copyright holders and the new licensee as to what could and couldn't be done with the show. I can't help believing that if the contract had been more strict, then the show probably would have fared much better. If I were Toriyama, I certainly would have never allowed the English producers to take as many liberties as they have.
Normally Id agree with him and leave it at that but where is the source?
For example, when Speed Racer was sold for US broadcast, it was made explicitly clear that the original background music was not to be changed. Why couldn't this have been one (of the several needed) stipulations in the US contract for DBZ? Were the parties controlling the original Japanese version weakened by all the money being waved at them by US producers? Or did they simply not care how their property would be presented outside of Japan? In either case, the situation is disappointing.
In my opinion, the contract should have included (at least) the following items:
The music must not be changed, including the opening and ending themes, in which the only alteration will be English-translated lyrics.
All the casting must be personally approved by those involved in the original production
No editing or censoring, except in the most extreme cases
The dialogue must be faithfully translated
Music/dialogue: Eh.
The rest i can agree on.
Call me a purist fanboy, but I really don't think any of this is unreasonable, especially considering what we're talking about. The Dragon Ball series is a worldwide phenomenon, it is one of the most popular stories of all time. That being the case, it deserves special respect. This is not just any anime. To me, changing the music to Dragon Ball would be no different than to change the music to Star Wars, the censoring and altering is no different here than if the Walt Disney company decided to cut out the death scenes in Bambi. Hell, why not colorize Schindler's List while we're at it?
That last analogy is terrible.
So is the Bambi one since DBZ didnt "cut out" most deaths but just sugarcoated it.
Or change the plot of Peter Pan so that orphans are no longer the main characters (English DBZ episode 10 was not shown just because of the presence of orphans!) Dragon Ball needs to be recognized as a classic, as something important and unchangeable, it isn't just some merchandising whore that anyone can buy and alter as they will so that it can be dumbed down and made palatable to American children and their hypersensitive, violence-paranoid parents. Am I going too far when I say that this show should be treated with the same respect as the Wizard of Oz or Hayao Miyazaki's films? (which by the way, Disney will be releasing, but only under VERY strict conditions) I honestly don't think so.
No but some of the complaints are not justified to me.
What the English DBZ should be
There should only be one difference: The theme songs and dialogue should be in (faithfully translated) English, with voices that sound like their Japanese counterparts, and that's it.
Why do they NEED to sound like them? thats so restricting.
No censoring, no "other dimensions",
Yeah! Snake way and King Kai's planet shouldn't exist!
no "artistic license" with the casting of voices,
Covered this already.
no stupid theme song,
We dont get that until *stops himself from making the obvious GT rap joke* ...Season 3!
nothing. Just the same old DBZ we all know. There is absolutely no reason why this couldn't be done on American TV, even children's TV. Nothing has been censored (with the sole exception of the occasional nude shot) that I have not seen on other American cartoons. There has been blood and onscreen death on many shows. "Heaven" and "Hell" have been mentioned,(on Animaniacs, for crying out loud!),
No they were implied not actually said.
Now theres an argument that because they put in Christian references theres no reason they shouldnt say heaven/hell but then again Hell is considered a bad word depending on context and even sometimes in a religion sense.
and the word "death" itself is said, well, on a whole LOT of cartoons. Some have even taken entire episodes to deal with nothing but the death of a character, and, I would like to point out, have been commended for it by parents.
A friend of mine once said that nothing would have gone wrong if the English version had been produced by a group of hardcore fans. That statement got me thinking, and I realized he was right. Who is more reverent of something than a fan? Who would go to those extra lengths to be certain that everything, every word of dialogue, every nuance in an actor's voice, was just right? Who would be more careful that those things that made the experience special were retained? A fan understands that it's every little tiny, seemingly insignificant detail that adds up to making the thing that they love what it is, and only a fan can know what to change when something has to be, and how exactly to change it correctly.
*imagines a group of fans getting into debates on which power levels should be inserted into the scripts*
And a fan wouldn't alter the show so that it would "fit in" with inferior American formulae for animated shows. He wouldn't add stupid "cartoon sound effects," or cheesy humor that wasn't originally intended. He would want this show to stand out by being different, by being its true self, and to show the world why the show is so special to him.
No a fan would add good cartoon sound effects, and decent humor that wasn't originally intended.
There need to be people working on the English version who care just a little too much, who spent far too many late nights watching the show huddled in the dark, who know the characters like they know themselves, who have some kind of emotional investment. There need to be people working on it who, well, let's face it, are freaks like me who love this f***ing thing a whole lot more than they should.
That last part sounds SO wrong when you take it out of context. (I know what he meant!)
What I want
I honestly think that there is still hope. I wouldn't have bothered saying all of this if I thought English DBZ was a lost cause, or if I truly believed that FUNimation didn't care. If I was a Sentai fan, for example who was horrified by what had been done to Power Rangers, I would know that that show had absolutely no chance of being salvaged.
But Dragon Ball Z is different. I can't give up on it, because it is so damned close to being the way it should be, or at least, close enough. There are only a few changes that need to be made to make it respectable, even if it still has to be censored for US broadcast. The FUNimation executive producers have expressed a desire to keep the show intact to some degree, and if that truly is the case, I want to be there to point out to them, from a perspective of a fan, what needs to be done.
Anything that, if done at this point, would create an inconsistency, I wouldn't expect (or want) them to change. For example, the names and the voices should be kept as is, it is too late to do anything about those without causing confusion among the viewers, and an incongruity in the show itself. However, there are still a few things that can be done without compromising the integrity of the English version as it exists now, namely:
The theme songs should be redone, or to put it more accurately, undone and changed to an English version of the originals.
Wouldnt that compromise the integrity of just the English dub? people have different tastes.
Also, all episodes released in previous seasons can have these new themes tacked on to the beginning and end when they are rerun. Let's make sure that "Rock the Dragon" is never heard again!
See above and some people actually like RtD.
Same thing for the background music, use the original for all new episodes, and reinstate it into all the old ones.
From now on, no more of this "other dimension" crap. OK, maybe for some insane reason THIS show (and apparently this show only, it would seem) can't say "die." Fair enough. But, for God's sake, use some other term, anything.
Look at my point about the nitpicking above.
All writing from here on in should be a more faithful translation of the original Japanese, without all the unnecessary added comedy. And bring back the character's attack names. I want to hear Tenshinhan scream: "KIKOHO!" rather than "AAAAAUUGGGHHHH!!!!"
We do need to know the names of the moves I agree but they dont really have to be repeated all the time.
Voices for characters yet to be introduced are to sound at least something like the originals
When editing is done, only edit "filler" episodes and scenes. Do not touch anything that was in the original manga.
Wow it feels like I'm stuck in a timeloop....
Now, is that so much to ask?
The first thing FUNimation needs to do to bring these changes about is to get past the idea that this show has to be like everything else on the air. Once they gain the courage to exploit its uniqueness to the maximum extent, to stand up to the censors, and to have the accurate presentation of this show a priority set above all else, including pleasing parents groups, making money, and playing it safe, then they can make the first truly excellent anime for American TV in history. Then anime fans can celebrate a victory in the long, hard road of getting their art form presented to the mass audience the way it was meant to be presented.
To be honest, all I REALLY want is to know that FUNimation has read and understood this page and what I have been trying to say. A response would be even better, and if there was a reasonable and supportable reply to each of my criticisms, perhaps I could understand why things have been done the way they have. I just want FUNimation to know that I am PLEADING with them to rethink their deeply flawed decisions regarding the disrespectful and unnecessary reversioning that they have inflicted on this timeless work of art.
So that's it (if you can believe it).
NO i cant... felt like it went on forever!
Problem is, I feel like I only got out about half of what I wanted to say.
HALF?!
I guess that's the problem with trying to verbalize something you feel really passionate about, but I did my best. I just hope my thoughts will make a difference somehow.
So thats my commentary. thoughts, suggestions, criticisms, flames (which will be ignored, likes, dislikes?
