Things that grind your gears

[ABED]

Eh. You do you.

Not sure exactly what this means, but whether something constitutes a classic isn't subjective. Anyone can like classic movies or not, but it isn't about taste. Whether anyone else likes DB, it will certainly be considered a classic decades down the road, if it isn't already. Ghostbusters and DB have remained popular decades after they came out.

Just meant I didn't feel like continuing the conversation. Though I do feel weather something is a classic is debeatle. Like people call All Eyez On Me a classic album, but that album sucks, by far 2Pac's worst album.

You and I may not agree with people's assessments about a classic album, TV show, or movie, but if enough people over enough time consider it good, then they fall into the category of a classic.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

What grinds my gears is when Toyotaro consistently makes the main character OOC, fueling the casual sheep to believe things that aren't true and thus spreads like wildfire.

Yeah he writes characters so odd sometimes, like why would Vegeta be training with Whis when his wife is pregnant? It is like he is still that prick from the Cell arc. And then he sometimes he writes Goku reallllly bad, like this whole Chichi pregnant thing or kissing thing, the anime at least leaves thing more vague. Toyotaro has a lot of shortcomings in both terms of art and writing, he as a long way to go. I see potential in the guy but man he needs to leave DB and do some professional work in another franchise that is they only way he will get better, right now as a fan he lacks certain objectivity needed, Toriyama has come on record and said he doesn't care when people change his work and it does seems they are letting him do what he wants.

But vegeta quit training because of bra,yup i do think The outline is limiting his writing skill But he shouldnt quit The franchise,i think he should side story with The other universe

The point is he shouldn't have been training anyway. But I'm not saying for him to quit just take a break or work on something else simultaneously so he can expand his horizons a bit more.

[ekrolo2]

The point is he shouldn't have been training anyway. But I'm not saying for him to quit just take a break or work on something else simultaneously so he can expand his horizons a bit more.

Other people writing Dragon Ball is only gonna get better under a few conditions. Firstly, they should probably stop trying to emulate Toriyama because well, they're not him and Toriyama's writing style isn't exactly something I'd call good, just something he managed to keep from going to hell for an impressively long time. As a consequence of this first rule, removing Toriyama from the steering wheel would help since it's kind of hard for the young rock star writer of a future DB project to work to his strengths if generic Toriyama story idea #2814834 is suffocating him. Oh and probably hire someone with an actual take on the material, not a bland as fuck guy like Toyotaro who's got nothing exciting or interesting to bring to the table.

[Soppa Saia People]

Not sure exactly what this means, but whether something constitutes a classic isn't subjective. Anyone can like classic movies or not, but it isn't about taste. Whether anyone else likes DB, it will certainly be considered a classic decades down the road, if it isn't already. Ghostbusters and DB have remained popular decades after they came out.

Just meant I didn't feel like continuing the conversation. Though I do feel weather something is a classic is debeatle. Like people call All Eyez On Me a classic album, but that album sucks, by far 2Pac's worst album.

You and I may not agree with people's assessments about a classic album, TV show, or movie, but if enough people over enough time consider it good, then they fall into the category of a classic.

That's fair, but I'm not alone in think All Eyez On Me was one of 2Pac's weaker efforts.

[Dbzfan94]

The point is he shouldn't have been training anyway. But I'm not saying for him to quit just take a break or work on something else simultaneously so he can expand his horizons a bit more.

Other people writing Dragon Ball is only gonna get better under a few conditions. Firstly, they should probably stop trying to emulate Toriyama because well, they're not him and Toriyama's writing style isn't exactly something I'd call good, just something he managed to keep from going to hell for an impressively long time. As a consequence of this first rule, removing Toriyama from the steering wheel would help since it's kind of hard for the young rock star writer of a future DB project to work to his strengths if generic Toriyama story idea #2814834 is suffocating him. Oh and probably hire someone with an actual take on the material, not a bland as fuck guy like Toyotaro who's got nothing exciting or interesting to bring to the table.

At the very least, whoever wrote the JSAT special knew how to keep the charm of Dragon Ball, unlike Toyotaro. I don't believe Toriyama did that.

[The gr]

Yeah, he definitely needs to take a few steps back to remove his bias. I'm not big on shipping in DB, but it's obvious he has favoritism for VegeBul and some sort of vendetta against GoChi. At this rate the way his writing has been shitting on the characters and the sales bombing, I wouldn't be surprised if it gets canned in a few months

His manga is selling well so is not going anywhere.

The point is he shouldn't have been training anyway. But I'm not saying for him to quit just take a break or work on something else simultaneously so he can expand his horizons a bit more.

Idk if v jump will let him Do something that is not db.Through it would nice if he work on something new or Do side story like garrowle

[ekrolo2]

The point is he shouldn't have been training anyway. But I'm not saying for him to quit just take a break or work on something else simultaneously so he can expand his horizons a bit more.

Other people writing Dragon Ball is only gonna get better under a few conditions. Firstly, they should probably stop trying to emulate Toriyama because well, they're not him and Toriyama's writing style isn't exactly something I'd call good, just something he managed to keep from going to hell for an impressively long time. As a consequence of this first rule, removing Toriyama from the steering wheel would help since it's kind of hard for the young rock star writer of a future DB project to work to his strengths if generic Toriyama story idea #2814834 is suffocating him. Oh and probably hire someone with an actual take on the material, not a bland as fuck guy like Toyotaro who's got nothing exciting or interesting to bring to the table.

At the very least, whoever wrote the JSAT special knew how to keep the charm of Dragon Ball, unlike Toyotaro. I don't believe Toriyama did that.

Toryiama wrote something of a first draft but Takao Koyama made the finished script. He wrote the old Z movies and some novel esque short stories about Piccolo and Vegeta.

[Dbzfan94]

Yeah, he definitely needs to take a few steps back to remove his bias. I'm not big on shipping in DB, but it's obvious he has favoritism for VegeBul and some sort of vendetta against GoChi. At this rate the way his writing has been shitting on the characters and the sales bombing, I wouldn't be surprised if it gets canned in a few months

His manga is selling well so is not going anywhere.

Is this true? I've heard a few places that said the manga was slowly dropping off in numbers.

[Neo-Makaiōshin]

Fans praising the DBZ formula of taking Goku out of action for most the arcs to let other characters shine. IT'S ABSOLUTE BS. What DBZ did was making Goku a reactive tool within the story that's just there and not an organic character. DBSuper has many faults but sidelining Goku to let other characters shine is not one of them, SUPER does BOTH keeping Goku as important character with organic presence within the story (AKA not sidelining him) AND giving other secomdary characters time to shine.

[ABED]

Fans praising the DBZ formula of taking Goku out of action for most the arcs to let other characters shine. IT'S ABSOLUTE BS. What DBZ did was making Goku a reactive tool within the story that's just there and not an organic character. DBSuper has many faults but sidelining Goku to let other characters shine is not one of them, SUPER does BOTH keeping Goku as important character with organic presence within the story (AKA not sidelining him) AND giving other secomdary characters time to shine.

Agreed. It works in a few cases but Toriyama does it EVERY SINGLE ARC in DBZ. He even did it twice in the Freeza arc.

[Dbzfan94]

SUPER does BOTH keeping Goku as important character with organic presence within the story (AKA not sidelining him) AND giving other secomdary characters time to shine.

Totally disagree here. Goku's presence in Super is anything but organic.

[ABED]

SUPER does BOTH keeping Goku as important character with organic presence within the story (AKA not sidelining him) AND giving other secomdary characters time to shine.

Totally disagree here. Goku's presence in Super is anything but organic.

What's inorganic about his presence in the story?

[The gr]

Is this true? I've heard a few places that said the manga was slowly dropping off in numbers.

Vol 2 & 3 have good sales.vegeta was not acting ooc in The current chapter yes he was training with whis but He stop because of bra,a cell saga vegeta would find bra a waste.Yes toyo is not talented or entertaining as a writer but he isnt making The franchise awful,is not like he introduced a shitty shoehorned oc or have a scene where Goku is evil & constanly kill people for The Lulz.

[SaiyanGod117]

SUPER does BOTH keeping Goku as important character with organic presence within the story (AKA not sidelining him) AND giving other secomdary characters time to shine.

Totally disagree here. Goku's presence in Super is anything but organic.

What is organic about his presence in Super ? So far he seems to be an uncharismatic idiot.

[Kanassa]

Fans praising the DBZ formula of taking Goku out of action for most the arcs to let other characters shine. IT'S ABSOLUTE BS. What DBZ did was making Goku a reactive tool within the story that's just there and not an organic character. .

Hell, DBZ does worse with Goku as even when he's not there, he takes away from other character by making most scenes about him. With 80% of dialogue, thoughts and story centring around Goku.

In Super, Goku is just there, usually at the forefront.

In Z, he's in your face.

[Dbzfan94]

SUPER does BOTH keeping Goku as important character with organic presence within the story (AKA not sidelining him) AND giving other secomdary characters time to shine.

Totally disagree here. Goku's presence in Super is anything but organic.

What's inorganic about his presence in the story?

He's shoe-horned into every single episode when he doesn't need to be for one. Again, some people may disagree but he doesn't have to appear every single episode to fulfill some sort of quota

[Dbzfan94]

Fans praising the DBZ formula of taking Goku out of action for most the arcs to let other characters shine. IT'S ABSOLUTE BS. What DBZ did was making Goku a reactive tool within the story that's just there and not an organic character. .

Hell, DBZ does worse with Goku as even when he's not there, he takes away from other character by making most scenes about him. With 80% of dialogue, thoughts and story centring around Goku.

In Super, Goku is just there, usually at the forefront.

In Z, he's in your face.

That's strange that you say that, because I honestly see the complete opposite.

[HeroR]

Yeah he writes characters so odd sometimes, like why would Vegeta be training with Whis when his wife is pregnant? It is like he is still that prick from the Cell arc. And then he sometimes he writes Goku reallllly bad, like this whole Chichi pregnant thing or kissing thing, the anime at least leaves thing more vague. Toyotaro has a lot of shortcomings in both terms of art and writing, he as a long way to go. I see potential in the guy but man he needs to leave DB and do some professional work in another franchise that is they only way he will get better, right now as a fan he lacks certain objectivity needed, Toriyama has come on record and said he doesn't care when people change his work and it does seems they are letting him do what he wants.

But vegeta quit training because of bra,yup i do think The outline is limiting his writing skill But he shouldnt quit The franchise,i think he should side story with The other universe

The point is he shouldn't have been training anyway. But I'm not saying for him to quit just take a break or work on something else simultaneously so he can expand his horizons a bit more.

The problem with Toyo's Vegeta, imo, is that he seems to be between his Cell and Buu Saga self, instead of how he was at the end of the Buu Saga. Just look at how he was written in the Future Trunks Saga where he seemed to what to beat Black up for humiliating him and took great joy stomping Black the first time because he had Goku's face. He even refused to even fight together against Merged Zamasu with Goku.

Compared to the anime, Vegeta outright says he wanted to fight Black not because of his pride, but to protect Trunks' world. Black even lamshades how that doesn't sound like a Saiyan. Black even hinted that Vegeta got as strong as he did from the Hyperbolic Time Chamber out of righteous anger. He also fought by Goku and Trunks' side against Merged Zamasu with no pride, granted he didn't want to fused but Trunks didn't have to give a speech either to get him to do it in the anime.

That's strange that you say that, because I honestly see the complete opposite.

The characters in Super can work with Goku and they're treated like equals to him. Goku just being in the room doesn't take away from the character. In Z, the characters were so depended on Goku that they couldn't go an episode without mentioning him in some way even by hoping he will arrived, get better, training to get stronger, our last hope, being like him, ect. Goku was wanked to hell in Z, even when he wasn't in the room and everyone else was secondary to him. In fact, this was a major issue Goku had, which is why he didn't want to do anything in the Buu Saga.

I mean, Luffy can be in every episode of One Piece, even if it's filler, yet no one complaints about him being shoe-horn or taking 'shine' away from others. This seems to be a Dragon Ball fandom issue when they think characters can't do anything as long as Goku is within the same space (something Z reinforced), which imo, makes the characters in Dragon Ball weak since a secondary character should be able to function with the main character.

[ABED]

Totally disagree here. Goku's presence in Super is anything but organic.

What's inorganic about his presence in the story?

He's shoe-horned into every single episode when he doesn't need to be for one. Again, some people may disagree but he doesn't have to appear every single episode to fulfill some sort of quota

He's the main character. It's his story. It's like complaining that Jack Bauer was in every episode of 24.

[Dbzfan94]

What's inorganic about his presence in the story?

He's shoe-horned into every single episode when he doesn't need to be for one. Again, some people may disagree but he doesn't have to appear every single episode to fulfill some sort of quota

He's the main character. It's his story. It's like complaining that Jack Bauer was in every episode of 24.

I don't understand this argument. Just because he's the main character it doesn't mean he has to be everywhere and anywhere at once. This tournament is supposed to have 80 characters, popping in to see Goku for the umpteenth time isnt enjoyable and appears very jarring after a while.
For one, a show like Dragon Ball is a whole different ball game than 24, come on. A 12-24 episode season that takes place in the span of a single day really cant be compared to a show like DB. And just because it's his show, it doesn't mean they have to shoe-horn him into every episode. It's kind of hard for me to explain considering you haven't seen anything in DBS, but there are some spots where he has legitimately no place being and they just put him in to go "look guys it's Goku did you forget about him??"