Non-thread-worthy discussions

[Noah]

It would be nice to have a OVA that explains the story behind Freeza's Empire and how he runs the business with King Cold

[ABED]

That's not a story as much as it is exposition.

[Noah]

That's not a story as much as it is exposition.

Probably I didn't use the correct wording, but not just Freeza's Empire but his origin, early days until become the most feared figure in the Universe.

[Gog]

Because doing something in your free time doesn't occupy as much of one's time as if you do it as an "occupation". It doesn't fit the concept of leisure or hobby. Freeza is never not a dictator.

There's a difference between being a dictator, and a conquer. A Conqueror is someone who conquers. A dictator is a ruler with complete and total power over a country (For Freeza it would be multiple worlds), typically one who has obtained by force. Freeza is a dictator, a monstrous, murderous vile dictator who rules over worlds with his God Like power which he was born with. But, he also has a hobby of conquering, and collecting worlds in his spare time. Which he quickly grows bored of as well.

[ABED]

Because doing something in your free time doesn't occupy as much of one's time as if you do it as an "occupation". It doesn't fit the concept of leisure or hobby. Freeza is never not a dictator.

There's a difference between being a dictator, and a conquer. A Conqueror is someone who conquers. A dictator is a ruler with complete and total power over a country (For Freeza it would be multiple worlds), typically one who has obtained by force. Freeza is a dictator, a monstrous, murderous vile dictator who rules over worlds with his God Like power which he was born with. But, he also has a hobby of conquering, and collecting worlds in his spare time. Which he quickly grows bored of as well.

It's still not a hobby. HIs empire runs on conquering planets. It's how they obtain their vast wealth.

[Gog]

Because doing something in your free time doesn't occupy as much of one's time as if you do it as an "occupation". It doesn't fit the concept of leisure or hobby. Freeza is never not a dictator.

There's a difference between being a dictator, and a conquer. A Conqueror is someone who conquers. A dictator is a ruler with complete and total power over a country (For Freeza it would be multiple worlds), typically one who has obtained by force. Freeza is a dictator, a monstrous, murderous vile dictator who rules over worlds with his God Like power which he was born with. But, he also has a hobby of conquering, and collecting worlds in his spare time. Which he quickly grows bored of as well.

It's still not a hobby. HIs empire runs on conquering planets. It's how they obtain their vast wealth.

Then Freeza enjoys his horrible job, and does it as a hobby in his spare time as well.

[ABED]

Then Freeza enjoys his horrible job, and does it as a hobby in his spare time as well.

That's what makes him a villain and what is your basis for claiming it's a hobby done in his spare time? What specifically in the show makes you believe he conquers in his off hours?

[Gog]

That's what makes him a villain and what is your basis for claiming it's a hobby done in his spare time? What specifically in the show makes you believe he conquers in his off hours?

I haven't actually watched Dragon Ball, I've only ever seen the dubbed versions of The Battle of Gods, and Resurrection of Freeza, I've read the series, but that's it. And heck this is what states that he conquers planets in his spare time:

[spoiler][/spoiler]

[ABED]

Forget the caption. What in the story makes you think Freeza does it as a hobby? By series, it wasn't limited to the anime.

[Gog]

Forget the caption. What in the story makes you think Freeza does it as a hobby? By series, it wasn't limited to the anime.

I'm going to be honest, nothing really does suggest. imply, or state that fact outside of the caption. (Except for one panel where Vegeta says that Freeza's bored of this planet already. But, I admit you can interpret that statement in many different ways.)

[ABED]

I'd have to know the context when Vegeta said it.

[Gog]

I'd have to know the context when Vegeta said it.

Its just after he got from the healing pod after his battle with Earth. Vegeta asks if Lord Freeza's in, and his Doctor tells him he's out. To which Vegeta says that he's tired of this planet already. That's really it.

[ABED]

I'm torn because on one hand, 16's death being the trigger for Gohan turning SS2 is weak, I'm glad his inclusion in the story made a difference.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

I'm torn because on one hand, 16's death being the trigger for Gohan turning SS2 is weak, I'm glad his inclusion in the story made a difference.

I hear it a lot, but was it really weak? #16 was able to get through to Gohan in a way that no one else could, only to be killed immediately after. It was the final straw needed to make everything finally click for Gohan. It would've been cool for one of Gohan's established role models to be the one to awaken him, but I could go on about what-if's all day in regards to that arc. The way it is holds up really well.

[DragonBallKing]

I'm torn because on one hand, 16's death being the trigger for Gohan turning SS2 is weak, I'm glad his inclusion in the story made a difference.

Do you think Cell killing Goku would have made it more believable?

[Krillin1994]

I'm torn because on one hand, 16's death being the trigger for Gohan turning SS2 is weak, I'm glad his inclusion in the story made a difference.

I hear it a lot, but was it really weak? #16 was able to get through to Gohan in a way that no one else could, only to be killed immediately after. It was the final straw needed to make everything finally click for Gohan. It would've been cool for one of Gohan's established role models to be the one to awaken him, but I could go on about what-if's all day in regards to that arc. The way it is holds up really well.

16 is one of the characters who Gohan could truly relate to, in that he didn't show off his strength but was stronger than others and was actually truly peace loving. I mean most of the z fighters want peace but they enjoy fighting. Gohan didn't really enjoy having to fight.

[ABED]

But Gohan barely saw 16. Understanding him isn't the same as empathizing with him. How did 16 get to Gohan in a way no one else could? By telling him something Gohan already knew? Are you really telling me you don't think Gohan knew it's fine to fight against bad guys to protect your values?

Do you think Cell killing Goku would have made it more believable?

Yes, wouldn't it be more understandable that the thing pushing Gohan over the edge was the death of his father? It didn't have to even be Goku. Hell, it could've been 16, but they should've spent more time together and formed a bond.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

How did 16 get to Gohan in a way no one else could? By telling him something Gohan already knew? Are you really telling me you don't think Gohan knew it's fine to fight against bad guys to protect your values?

For all intents and purposes, at that point in the story, Gohan is afraid to use his power to quell evil. This is well established throughout the Cell Games, and Gohan even momentarily regressed on that front after Goku died, only for Goku to remind him once again. Whether you think that character trait is justified or not is another issue, but once again, if we're going into what-if's, I could go on for days with this arc. It works fine in accordance with what Toriyama was going for at that point.

[Krillin1994]

But Gohan barely saw 16. Understanding him isn't the same as empathizing with him. How did 16 get to Gohan in a way no one else could? By telling him something Gohan already knew? Are you really telling me you don't think Gohan knew it's fine to fight against bad guys to protect your values?

Do you think Cell killing Goku would have made it more believable?

Yes, wouldn't it be more understandable that the thing pushing Gohan over the edge was the death of his father? It didn't have to even be Goku. Hell, it could've been 16, but they should've spent more time together and formed a bond.

Ha well I'd say that Gohan had a pretty messed up child hood so its probably not best to get inside his mind/ I wasn't being 100% serious about being understood in a way nobody else would.

I like the relevance it gave to 16 as he had been shown to have an accurate grasp of understanding the true power of everyone that arc so I found it cool that he got that out of Gohan.

I feel that if Goku could have gotten Gohan to go SS2 he would've done it in the year together. I think the point was that 16 represented the rest of the world/what Gohan was truly fighting for. It was bigger than just the Z fighters as he would've gone SS2 from the Cell Juniors alone.

[ABED]

It's not that simple. Goku knows what Gohan needs - anger. The issue is getting him that angry and Goku can't do that on command. This whole idea that he needed someone else to tell him something he already knew, that of all things it's something as self evident and trite as it's okay to fight to defend your values, is ridiculous. It's not a revelation.

It works fine in accordance with what Toriyama was going for at that point.

No it doesn't. If what he was going for was organic drama, then he failed. I still love him turning SS2 in the anime, but that's likely due to the music and Nozawa's performance, rather than the writing.

This might be able to fill its own thread.