Have we ever had villains so reckless and inefficient?

[Noah]

Dragon Ball Super spoilers ahead:

Now, don't get me wrong with this, I'm loving the current arc, is indeed the best thing we having in a long time, but I can't close my eyes to the attempted failures of Goku Black and Zamasu.

- Have we ever knew why Black wasted so much time sparing the earthlings when he could vanish them in a blink of eye? Or why he did keep Trunks alive for some period? (this might be explainable, since fighting Trunks, Black would get even more stronger), but If Black had finished Trunks, yes maybe he would not be that strong as he is now, but nothing would harm him and Future Zamasu

- Black could have killed Vegeta (he had no interest in him, so why not?), after impaling him why not finish him with a energy blast? SSJB Vegeta is not that behind of Super Saiyan Rosé power, keeping him alive was a mistake

- I could have a note about Black or Zamasu having killed Trunks in the same episode (57), but power levels in this series are messed as hell, so I'll skip that for now

- And then we have Episode #61, the best episode of this series IMO but it had some stupid actions of our villains as well: we see Goku getting through this and this and nope, he's not killed, also the same with Black blasting Trunks with his energy and no, no hole in the chest, no death, Trunks is still alive to get pissed and transform into a new a thing


Conclusion: Why Goku Black and Zamasu are so inefficient for f***'s sake? I mean it's like the second time they let Goku and co. escape (third if you count Trunks first escape) I can't buy they actually attacking the gang with intent to kill them, but instead is like they're holding back, giving them a chance to come up with something new and this is extremely reckless!

I bet this attitude will be their ultimate downfall.

[Cetra]

There were dozents of opportunities of Dragon Ball villains where they could have killed the heroes but didn't. Same goes for the heroes. It is just either arrogance or the fact that the story is intended to go in a different direction than just the villains being smart and doing what they should do.

[Cure Dragon 255]

I'm not sure if Black is someone else possesing Goku but my answer is this: Its Goku, have you NOT read the manga or watched the show? He LOVES not killing his enemies and letting them live for stupid reasons LOL.

[Noah]

There were dozents of opportunities of Dragon Ball villains where they could have killed the heroes but didn't. Same goes for the heroes. It is just either arrogance or the fact that the story is intended to go in a different direction than just the villains being smart and doing what they should do.

I know the story would not proceed if we actually had villains that succeed in killing the main protagonists, I'm just saying that is misdirected the way how their attacks that seem fatal didn't kill anyone yet

[BlazingFiddlesticks]

Maybe Black is just savoring the moment?

Presuming we can slap most of the Future Trunks/Black arc on Toriyama, he is in a very tight space telling this kind of story. He is trying to sell a suspense story in a goofy fantasy martial arts universe whose past several antagonists could blow up planets while letting nothing of lasting consequence actual occur because the ending he wrote 20 years ago still has to happen. That is a formidable task enough, let alone for a spontaneous writer like Toriyama. Beyond that, Zamasu is the first Dragon Ball villain whose scheme barely needs the heroes to be present at all- just that first brief encounter with Goku. On the most practical level, you cannot have a "typical" Z-era Dragon Ball story of revelations and escalations if Zamasu Black just show up with their master plans realized and whoop everyone clean: the story Toriyama is trying to tell all but prevents from being efficient. It is literally what gave us the Android arc in the first place!

The frequent time traveling and Black being seemingly drawn out of timey-wimey hammerspace only further emphasize this to me, like he is not sure how to pace things.

[Noah]

It is literally what gave us the Android arc in the first place!

The frequent time traveling and Black being seemingly drawn out of timey-wimey hammerspace only further emphasize this to me, like he is not sure how to pace things.

This arc is great so far, but such dumb decisions are making less enjoyable for me in some parts, I know they not want to end things so soon, but why not have plot better written than give us the impression that Zamasu and Black are truly incompetent?

[Doctor.]

Have we ever knew why Black wasted so much time sparing the earthlings when he could vanish them in a blink of eye?

Yes, last episode Zamasu said he wants to make earthlings suffer.

Or why he did keep Trunks alive for some period? (this might be explainable, since fighting Trunks, Black would get even more stronger), but If Black had finished Trunks, yes maybe he would not be that strong as he is now, but nothing would harm him and Future Zamasu

You explained it yourself. Trunks surviving could also be explained by Black never really considering him much of a threat and allowing him to escape, since he knew he'd kill him eventually.

- Black could have killed Vegeta (he had no interest in him, so why not?), after impaling him why not finish him with a energy blast? SSJB Vegeta is not that behind of Super Saiyan Rosé power, keeping him alive was a mistake

He treated Vegeta as trash. He thought that letting him die slowly and painfully would be better than just killing him instantly. His reaction to Vegeta's final flash which saved Goku and Trunks later tells us he wasn't expecting Vegeta to survive his stab wound.

- And then we have Episode #61, the best episode of this series IMO but it had some stupid actions of our villains as well: we see Goku getting through this and this and nope, he's not killed, also the same with Black blasting Trunks with his energy and no, no hole in the chest, no death, Trunks is still alive to get pissed and transform into a new a thing

Don't see how this is a complaint against Black/Zamasu. It's a complaint against the writing of the arc, more than anything.

but instead is like they're holding back, giving them a chance to come up with something new and this is extremely reckless!

I bet this attitude will be their ultimate downfall.

Pretty much. They don't consider them a threat. They both act very nonchallantly all the time.

[GodVegetto91]

It ultimately always comes down to out-of-universe explanations when it comes to these things. They simply can't allow Trunks, Goku and Vegeta to be killed. Because then we no longer have a story.

In-Universe explanation: There isn't any that makes sense other than Black being extremely insufficient when it comes to killing them off.

[ekrolo2]

If we ever had an efficient villain, Goku and co would have died eons ago. Half the reason they win is because their adversaries are usually just as reckless and stupid as they are.

[Noah]

And then we have Episode #61, the best episode of this series IMO but it had some stupid actions of our villains as well: we see Goku getting through this and this and nope, he's not killed, also the same with Black blasting Trunks with his energy and no, no hole in the chest, no death, Trunks is still alive to get pissed and transform into a new a thing

Don't see how this is a complaint against Black/Zamasu. It's a complaint against the writing of the arc, more than anything.

Yes, so you do agree that this arc has some problems of bad writing in some aspects?

If we ever had an efficient villain, Goku and co would have died eons ago. Half the reason they win is because their adversaries are usually just as reckless and stupid as they are.

But don't they think that fans may want to see some progress from this series in general? Zamasu is a villain that had receive some development and that's a good thing, but he could be presented as smarter enemy than anyone Goku have fought that would be great

[Doctor.]

Yes, so you do agree that this arc has some problems of bad writing in some aspects?

Never claimed the arc was perfect, though I do think it's one of the best DB arcs ever, 5th more specifically.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Black and Zamasu have completely took over the future timeline. Killed gods. They want ningen to suffer as evidenced a few episodes ago where they stabbed Goku and then proceedes to to gloat about killing his wife and child.

Reckless maybe a little but inefficient definitely not.

[omaro34]

Not to mention Black/Zamasu continue to allow the Saiyans to go back and forth through time.

[DBZAOTA482]

Goku Black and Zamasu I think have a far lesser body count than all the Z-era villains... who have killed millions.

[Boo Machine]

For villains that more or less want to destroy all life, they sure do take their sweet time to do anything.

Even after Goku and vegeta and trunks escaped the first time, instead of continuing the hunt for the remaining humans (that helped them escape) they went back to their little cabin to drink tea and chat.

Though their absurdly high confidence is what makes them fun to me.

[Kanassa]

Have we ever had villains so reckless and inefficient?

Yep, almost every villain before them. They could strip naked and start doing a rain dance while waiting for Goku and Vegeta to take pot shots at them and they'd still be more competent. The only reason that most Dragonball villains get so far is because the Earth's strongest defenders are equally incompetent.

[Dbzk1999]

Goku Black and Zamasu I think have a far lesser body count than all the Z-era villains... who have killed millions.

Uh, you are aware that they killed numerous amounts of people before coming to earth right?

[Noah]

Yep, almost every villain before them. They could strip naked and start doing a rain dance while waiting for Goku and Vegeta to take pot shots at them and they'd still be more competent. The only reason that most Dragonball villains get so far is because the Earth's strongest defenders are equally incompetent.

It seems you do have some valid points that I would like to read, please go on...


On-topic: Maybe my main complaint with this arc is not just Black and Zamasu being reckless, but the bad writing in general, why not just obliterate the damn Time Machine?

[Jinzoningen MULE]

why not just obliterate the damn Time Machine?

Why didn't Zamasu just wish to exterminate all mortals with the Super DB's? Why did Zamasu switch bodies with Goku, rather than an Angel or a God of Destruction? Or better yet, why not wish to be exeedingly powerful in his own body? Why didn't the Zamasus fuse to begin with, since they're the same person, and clearly don't mind doing so anyway?

Cause plot.

[emperior]

Black wants Goku alive to gain more power from him. It seems like he only gets power boosts from fighting Goku. He couldn't finish Vegeta because there was Goku there that would have prevented it