One-dimensional DragonBall characters.

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Re: One-dimensional DragonBall characters.

Post by ChronoTwigger » Mon Jan 09, 2017 3:33 pm

1d: Mr Popo, Gowasu, Draculaman, Roshi, Garlic Jr, Whis, Zeno, Zuno.
2d: Crane Master, Broly, Tao PaiPai, Cell, Kid Buu.
3d: Jackie Chun, Frieza, Tien, Zamasu and almost all the main cast.

1d: one narrative level. Being there.
2d: being there AND have a personal goal
3d: action, goal and feelings.
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Re: One-dimensional DragonBall characters.

Post by ABED » Mon Jan 09, 2017 4:01 pm

Jackie Chun is Muten Roshi.
1d: Mr Popo, Gowasu, Draculaman, Roshi, Garlic Jr, Whis, Zeno, Zuno.
2d: Crane Master, Broly, Tao PaiPai, Cell, Kid Buu.
3d: Jackie Chun, Frieza, Tien, Zamasu and almost all the main cast.

1d: one narrative level. Being there.
2d: being there AND have a personal goal
3d: action, goal and feelings.
Garlic Jr. has a goal, the Crane Hermit has feelings and a personal goal and grudge.
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Re: One-dimensional DragonBall characters.

Post by Doctor. » Mon Jan 09, 2017 4:11 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:all the movie villains
Paragus isn't one dimensional.

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Re: One-dimensional DragonBall characters.

Post by Gog » Mon Jan 09, 2017 7:38 pm

Wait a minute, I just remembered a character.

Goku

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Re: One-dimensional DragonBall characters.

Post by DBZAOTA482 » Mon Jan 09, 2017 8:17 pm

ChronoTwigger wrote:1d: Mr Popo, Gowasu, Draculaman, Roshi, Garlic Jr, Whis, Zeno, Zuno.
2d: Crane Master, Broly, Tao PaiPai, Cell, Kid Buu.
3d: Jackie Chun, Frieza, Tien, Zamasu and almost all the main cast.

1d: one narrative level. Being there.
2d: being there AND have a personal goal
3d: action, goal and feelings.
Muten Roshi and Cell are definitely 3d. Tien is more 2d.
fadeddreams5 wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
jjgp1112 wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.

I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.

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Re: One-dimensional DragonBall characters.

Post by ABED » Mon Jan 09, 2017 9:09 pm

DBZAOTA482 wrote:
ChronoTwigger wrote:1d: Mr Popo, Gowasu, Draculaman, Roshi, Garlic Jr, Whis, Zeno, Zuno.
2d: Crane Master, Broly, Tao PaiPai, Cell, Kid Buu.
3d: Jackie Chun, Frieza, Tien, Zamasu and almost all the main cast.

1d: one narrative level. Being there.
2d: being there AND have a personal goal
3d: action, goal and feelings.
Muten Roshi and Cell are definitely 3d. Tien is more 2d.
How do you figure Cell is a 3 dimensional character, but Tenshinhan only has two dimensions?
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: One-dimensional DragonBall characters.

Post by Jinzoningen MULE » Mon Jan 09, 2017 9:38 pm

I don't know if Cell even counts as two-dimensional. He still only had one concern at a time.
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Re: One-dimensional DragonBall characters.

Post by ABED » Mon Jan 09, 2017 9:51 pm

Jinzoningen MULE wrote:I don't know if Cell even counts as two-dimensional. He still only had one concern at a time.
He's 2 dimensional by virtue of us knowing anything about him. He's not random victim number 38 who might have one line if that. Those are one dimensional characters.
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Re: One-dimensional DragonBall characters.

Post by DBZAOTA482 » Mon Jan 09, 2017 10:03 pm

ABED wrote:
DBZAOTA482 wrote:
ChronoTwigger wrote:1d: Mr Popo, Gowasu, Draculaman, Roshi, Garlic Jr, Whis, Zeno, Zuno.
2d: Crane Master, Broly, Tao PaiPai, Cell, Kid Buu.
3d: Jackie Chun, Frieza, Tien, Zamasu and almost all the main cast.

1d: one narrative level. Being there.
2d: being there AND have a personal goal
3d: action, goal and feelings.
Muten Roshi and Cell are definitely 3d. Tien is more 2d.
How do you figure Cell is a 3 dimensional character, but Tenshinhan only has two dimensions?
Tien's whole character is pretty much just your typical stoic fighter after his first arc, which Piccolo and Vegeta are like as well but are far more interesting and dynamic. Cell is literally a mix bot of various people comprising his cells (Goku's calmness, Piccolo's cunning and intelligence, the pride of Vegeta, Freeza's polite domineer (without the sarcasm) and cruelty, Saiyan lust for battle, etc.).... both in personality, ability, and backstory.
fadeddreams5 wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
jjgp1112 wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.

I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.

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Re: One-dimensional DragonBall characters.

Post by keyz05 » Tue Jan 10, 2017 3:06 am

ChronoTwigger wrote:1d: Mr Popo, Gowasu, Draculaman, Roshi, Garlic Jr, Whis, Zeno, Zuno.
2d: Crane Master, Broly, Tao PaiPai, Cell, Kid Buu.
3d: Jackie Chun, Frieza, Tien, Zamasu and almost all the main cast.

1d: one narrative level. Being there.
2d: being there AND have a personal goal
3d: action, goal and feelings.
How is Cell 2-dimensional?

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Re: One-dimensional DragonBall characters.

Post by keyz05 » Tue Jan 10, 2017 3:07 am

Gog wrote:Wait a minute, I just remembered a character.

Goku
I'll repeat again. Goku isn't one-dimensional. If he was always good, then he would be one-dimensional. He wanted Frieza to die on Namek, but Goku couldn't let that happen, so he healed him. He took a level of kindness, being a badass, as well as being more knowledgeable in DBZ. So I have to disagree with you.

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Re: One-dimensional DragonBall characters.

Post by Gog » Tue Jan 10, 2017 3:17 am

keyz05 wrote:
Gog wrote:Wait a minute, I just remembered a character.

Goku
I'll repeat again. Goku isn't one-dimensional. If he was always good, then he would be one-dimensional. He wanted Frieza to die on Namek, but Goku couldn't let that happen, so he healed him. He took a level of kindness, being a badass, as well as being more knowledgeable in DBZ. So I have to disagree with you.
Yeah, I know I was simply just making a joke.

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Re: One-dimensional DragonBall characters.

Post by ABED » Tue Jan 10, 2017 6:52 am

Tien's whole character is pretty much just your typical stoic fighter after his first arc, which Piccolo and Vegeta are like as well but are far more interesting and dynamic. Cell is literally a mix bot of various people comprising his cells (Goku's calmness, Piccolo's cunning and intelligence, the pride of Vegeta, Freeza's polite domineer (without the sarcasm) and cruelty, Saiyan lust for battle, etc.).... both in personality, ability, and backstory.
He's more than that. He once wanted to be a great assassin, like his mentor Tao Pai Pai, but as it turns out, deep down, that's not what he wanted. He simply wanted to be the best that he could be. He even rebelled against his teacher, but even after becoming friends with Muten Roshi, he still felt indebted to The Crane Hermit and didn't join the Turtle Hermit school. Cell's a typical evil villain. His backstory is that he was created in a lab, not a great backstory. Did you watch Dragon Ball or just DBZ? Cell does not have three dimensions. His personality and his abilities are a mishmash of other characters.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: One-dimensional DragonBall characters.

Post by DBZAOTA482 » Tue Jan 10, 2017 2:42 pm

ABED wrote:
Tien's whole character is pretty much just your typical stoic fighter after his first arc, which Piccolo and Vegeta are like as well but are far more interesting and dynamic. Cell is literally a mix bot of various people comprising his cells (Goku's calmness, Piccolo's cunning and intelligence, the pride of Vegeta, Freeza's polite domineer (without the sarcasm) and cruelty, Saiyan lust for battle, etc.).... both in personality, ability, and backstory.
He's more than that. He once wanted to be a great assassin, like his mentor Tao Pai Pai, but as it turns out, deep down, that's not what he wanted. He simply wanted to be the best that he could be. He even rebelled against his teacher, but even after becoming friends with Muten Roshi, he still felt indebted to The Crane Hermit and didn't join the Turtle Hermit school. Cell's a typical evil villain. His backstory is that he was created in a lab, not a great backstory. Did you watch Dragon Ball or just DBZ? Cell does not have three dimensions. His personality and his abilities are a mishmash of other characters.
That's why I said after his first arc... he had character then but is kinda just there after. The fact Cell's personality is a mesh of other characters actually shows he's not a typical evil villain... if anything, Majin Boo and even Freeza are far more archetypal going by your flimsy definition than Cell.

IF you wanna simplify backstories like that then Tien's wouldn't sound all that compelling either. All we really know of him is he was an assassin in training till he saw the error of his ways through fighting Goku. Cell was created as the perfect fighting machine who was promised ultimate power through absorbing androids #17 and #18 but they were killed in his timeline (which was the original timeline) so he snuck into the past.
fadeddreams5 wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
jjgp1112 wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.

I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.

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Re: One-dimensional DragonBall characters.

Post by ABED » Tue Jan 10, 2017 2:47 pm

That's why I said after his first arc... he had character then but is kinda just there after. The fact Cell's personality is a mesh of other characters actually shows he's not a typical evil villain... if anything, Majin Boo and even Freeza are far more archetypal going by your flimsy definition than Cell.
Tenshinhan is still at the very least two dimensional after that first arc. He's not your typical villain in that his personality isn't unique to him. If Freeza is archetypal, so is Cell. The only thing unique about Cell is how he was created, but the character's personality is not. His creation doesn't have anything to do with character depth.
IF you wanna simplify backstories like that then Tien's wouldn't sound all that compelling either.
That's a matter of opinion and all that matters is execution.
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Re: One-dimensional DragonBall characters.

Post by ChronoTwigger » Tue Jan 10, 2017 4:01 pm

Too much people to quote, general reply.

Roshi, as Roshi, show no emotion or personal feelings. He does however in Jackie Chun role. Jackie Chun have a moral to follow, Roshi haven't. It's the clear example of how differently behave less or multi "dimensional" characters, despite their actual role in a story.

Cell the same. He act and have a personal goal, but have no feelings and cannot argue with that goals.
Frieza instead show hate, change his mind, have emotions. His goal too come from his own feelings and how he react to Vegeta is a 3d reaction.

Tien is absolutely 3d. He shown pride, kindness, doubts even when acting against Goku. He changed his mind following his feelings. That wasn't possible for Cell, that acted more like a single pourposed bot than a sentient being (it's not 1d 'cause at least got a personal goal to fullfil).
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Re: One-dimensional DragonBall characters.

Post by DBZAOTA482 » Tue Jan 10, 2017 8:01 pm

ABED wrote:The only thing unique about Cell is how he was created, but the character's personality is not. His creation doesn't have anything to do with character depth.
It has a lot to do with his character. Freeza wanted to be
That's a matter of opinion and all that matters is execution.
Exactly. And you make it sound like Tien was forced to be an assassin for some complicated reason.... it was just something he wanted till he saw it wasn't all cookies n' cream. Beyond that he's pretty much just the prideful fighter.
ChronoTwigger wrote:Roshi, as Roshi, show no emotion or personal feelings. He does however in Jackie Chun role. Jackie Chun have a moral to follow, Roshi haven't. It's the clear example of how differently behave less or multi "dimensional" characters, despite their actual role in a story.
Jackie Chun is Muten Roshi. There's no point in separating them when they're literally the same character.
Cell the same. He act and have a personal goal, but have no feelings and cannot argue with that goals.
Frieza instead show hate, change his mind, have emotions. His goal too come from his own feelings and how he react to Vegeta is a 3d reaction.

Tien is absolutely 3d. He shown pride, kindness, doubts even when acting against Goku. He changed his mind following his feelings. That wasn't possible for Cell, that acted more like a single pourposed bot than a sentient being (it's not 1d 'cause at least got a personal goal to fullfil).
It is possible. Though the androids were programmed to kill they were still shown to have moral agency and Cell is no exception as he ignored Gero's ambitions for revenge and world conquest. Cell wanted the ultimate power for himself as it was his calling.

He also has shown feelings as he respected Goku's abilities as a fighter, personally interacted with the androids (notably #16 who he looked down upon for being considered a complete failure), and has questioned his motives. Lastly, when he came back as Super Perfect Cell he had gone insane.
fadeddreams5 wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
jjgp1112 wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.

I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.

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Re: One-dimensional DragonBall characters.

Post by SingleFringe&Sparks » Tue Jan 10, 2017 8:30 pm

Does Flanderization make a character 1 dimensional? Or are we going with the useless characters? Because Goten is literally nothing, Chaiotzu is nothing, Mai has nothing to her and no backstory, Puar is just Yamcha's friend with no backstory, Pilaf is a one-trick pony and Kid Trunks isn't anything but the sassier version of Goten. If we want to go with boring Flanderization we have Goku and Chi Chi.
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Re: One-dimensional DragonBall characters.

Post by ABED » Tue Jan 10, 2017 8:39 pm

Exactly. And you make it sound like Tien was forced to be an assassin for some complicated reason.... it was just something he wanted till he saw it wasn't all cookies n' cream. Beyond that he's pretty much just the prideful fighter.
No, I didn't imply that he was forced to be an assassin. The fact that he actually wanted to be an assassin is what gives him dimension. "Beyond that"? That's a big thing to get beyond.
Cell wanted the ultimate power for himself as it was his calling.
He was created to desire the ultimate power, not to mention, he was made up of several beings that desired little else but power.

Backstories are often overrated in terms of creating depth.
Flanderization is a ridiculous term given that Flanders has dimension.
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Re: One-dimensional DragonBall characters.

Post by Gog » Wed Jan 11, 2017 5:46 pm

Actually Perfect Cell is one dimensional.

Wanted to destroy the earth for no reason, but before doing that he had to kill everyone on earth one at a time, a feat which would take hundreds of thousands of years, and even then he might fail at the task. His personality was evil. That's all that Cell was, disappointing especially considering his amazing introduction.

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