Fan Service

[Gog]

Um... So you want fanservice because it might make them entertaining. My, My brain cannot. Comprehend

Marron was a boring plank of wood, with big pieces of flab attached to the chest. You know what, Chi Chi, Bulma, and Vados, are busty enough, they don't need to roam around in skin tight red clothing with shows just enough skin, that you feel your little man standing up. That would be stupid, and would stand out like a sore thumb.

You know what, I still stand by it, if I want fan service I'll go into the sex fanart thread, If I want dragon ball. I'll watch Dragon ball super.

You're overreacting. And, what can your mind not comprehend? Is it I think well executed fanservice would be a nice change to make the characters entertaining for me or is it how can I possibly think fanservice can make a character entertaining?

The Marron and Kuririn sub-plot was the only thing I gave a shit about in the utter boring crap that was the Garlic Jr. arc, but the staff didn't do much with her, so yeah you could say that she was a failed attempt at fanservice and a wasted character.

No I'm not overeating, I'm just making a joke that's all. So you think that fanservice can make a character interesting? I'm sorry to say that fanservice does not make a character more entertaining. It adds nothing to their character and at times its just annoying. Case in point One Piece, a good show with good characters, and Yadda, Yadda, Yadda, but the major flaw in one piece is the egregious, and over usage of fan service. Because you know that nobody is going to run around, in what Nami's wearing. Or how the fuck does Robin's boobs not pop out.

And good riddance too

[Gog]

Japanese comics and animation are deeply rooted in sex. It only makes sense for their to be a plethora of it. Most works are created by Otaku (who ultimately will serve their own Otaku needs) and you cannot be an Otaku unless you are a horny fucker attracted to 2D women. As more creators pile into this franchise it is only natural to expect their influence to shine through, especially when such an influence would be rich with passion a this franchise so desperately needs to see shine through.

That being said, fuck the plot. All that matters is getting drawings that tell you what you need to know about how the artist and characters feel. Tying everything's importance into narrative is just an excuse to make up for a creator's inability to do anything but thing up general plot ideas, rather than make a completed television work, film or comic. One will far sooner create a work of artistic merit not by trying to push a message for the sake of critical acclaim, but by being honest about one's feelings and pouring that honesty into one's work.

And that means that Dragon ball is the exception then, there doesn't need to be a plethora of it. So what your saying is that all Otaku's need sexy 2d images, to fap too. As all Otaku's are horny fuckers a-attracted to 2d women... Take a fucking second to think of what the fuck you just wrote. yes, yes it was a joke, and yes, yes I shouldn't take it seriously. But something about that, as a jokey justification for why fan service should be there.

Just pisses me off


So creators need to make boobs, and ass their flaming passion for dragon ball. You know what... I'd like other creator's to shine their influence to shine. Preferably the ones who can keep it in their pants, for longer than a minute, around a 2d drawing.

What. What. What. What, your right JulieYBM fuck the plot indeed, also fuck the story, the characters, the setting, the atheistic, the tone, the color cohesion, fuck the characters, fuck the jokes, fuck the writing and fuck the character progression. All you need is a bunch of pretty draws! Are you fucking kidding me. Your saying that the only reee~aaalll important thing in an anime is the pwetty dwawing's?

Of course, its not like the most important thing in an anime is the story, or that you won't give a fuck about those 'pwetty, well animated dwaings' if there is nothing of fucking substance to them, bwesides them being pretty. But then I wouldn't be all correct, as theirs also, the characters, the setting, the tone, the atheistic, the cinematography, the fucking everything, besides the pwetty pwictures .

Unless, you have no skill, money, or anything at all, but go ahead, and be honest. Lets see where it gets you

[ABED]

That being said, fuck the plot. All that matters is getting drawings that tell you what you need to know about how the artist and characters feel. Tying everything's importance into narrative is just an excuse to make up for a creator's inability to do anything but thing up general plot ideas, rather than make a completed television work, film or comic. One will far sooner create a work of artistic merit not by trying to push a message for the sake of critical acclaim, but by being honest about one's feelings and pouring that honesty into one's work.

The plot is what matters, that's where the emotion comes from. The rest of it (artwork, music, direction) is all in service of the story.

[Lord Beerus]

I really don't have an issue with fan service. It really comes down to how it's implemented to the story and how it utilised. Two of the major examples of that I can recall of recent are Episode 66 of Dragon Ball Super and Resurrection F.

I loved Resurrection F because it had great action, great comedy, good character interactions and I was happy to see Freeza come back. There was fantastic character interactions, the great fight scenes throughout the movie and the stunning animation at times. Resurrection F was not perfect, and I do certainly prefer Battle Of Gods over it, but in its own regard, it's a damn good DBZ movie and holds up very well on its own. But that doesn't negate the fact that the story lacked any kind of drama and substance and the ending may have been anticlimactic as hell and just and poorly handled. Ultimately thought that Freeza coming back was a wasted opportunity for some character growth or exploring lore behind his race. You can tell that was movie done purely to quickly cash-in on the success of Battle Of Gods. Right down to the movie being storyboarded in one month.

Episode 66 is the epitome of style over substance. Even though it had so many moments of nonsense, it was the right kind of nonsense. Like the "put your brain at the door and enjoy the fireworks" kind. It was blatantly obvious Vegetto was thrown in for nostalgic purposes and he only had about 10 minutes of screen-time, irregardless of how entertaining it was. Not to mention the manner of which Zamasu is defeated reek of pandering to the fanbase. The Genki Dama is totally fucking nonsense, but you can tell it was done for the sole purpose of giving Future Trunks the main kill. As well giving Future Trunks his own SSJ transformation.

[Freeza9000]

but you can tell it was done for the sole purpose of giving Future Trunks the main kill.

Which didn't happen, now did it.

[Gog]

You can tell that was movie done purely to quickly cash-in on the success of Battle Of Gods. Right down to the movie being storyboarded in one month.

One thing. Toriyama did state that he had the idea for the movie, by listening to Fukkatsu No F, and he did state that he was surprised at how little the script was changed, when he watched the movie. So the reason why it was such a quick cash in was Toriyama himself

[DBZAOTA482]

More T & A would actually make the bullshit Super throws at people slightly more tolerable.... but make some for #18, Chi-Chi, Videl, and Vados as well so everyone can be happy. Add some manservice too... Gohan's gotta be packin'.

[Saikyo no Senshi]

The plot is what matters, that's where the emotion comes from. The rest of it (artwork, music, direction) is all in service of the story.

The emotion in an animated film or TV series comes from animation. We care about the characters cause someone who is drawing cares about it too and successfully manages to express that emotion in animated form.

The plot is just on paper. How it's brought to life is what matters and that falls on the shoulders of the animators and the director's execution.

[Gog]

The emotion in an animated film or TV series comes from animation. We care about the characters cause someone who is drawing cares about it too and successfully manages to express that emotion in animated form.

The plot is just on paper. How it's brought to life is what matters and that falls on the shoulders of the animators and the director's execution.

Yes, and I agree with you animation, and the drawings are. Uh the 1. Plot, 2. The characters. 3. Tone, uh the fourth most important thing. I can draw a pwetty thwing but nobody is going to give a fuck as there's none of the other big three in there, it also works in the reverse, but not as much.

[JulieYBM]

Oh, shit, it's almost 1AM. I hate working so late.

And that means that Dragon ball is the exception then, there doesn't need to be a plethora of it. So what your saying is that all Otaku's need sexy 2d images, to fap too. As all Otaku's are horny fuckers a-attracted to 2d women... Take a fucking second to think of what the fuck you just wrote. yes, yes it was a joke, and yes, yes I shouldn't take it seriously. But something about that, as a jokey justification for why fan service should be there.

Hey now, Otaku also fap to drawings of mechanical objects, too! That why mecha girls, like those from Kantai Collection, are so popular.

I'm not joking, either. There are no children Otaku, because to be capable of sex-based feelings is the foundation of an Otaku.

Just pisses me off

"Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn." One of these days I should actually watch Gone With the Wind...

It sounds to me like you're confusing the general western idea of fandom with the actual realities of being an Otaku. I wouldn't call any user on this forum an Otaku (not even myself!) because nobody quite fulfills the necessary criteria of being possible not only of physical love for a 2D character, but emotional love, too. Most users here (well, most westerner geeks in general) also don't exhibit the highly fine-tuned ability to shift between fictional contexts.

So creators need to make boobs, and ass their flaming passion for dragon ball. You know what... I'd like other creator's to shine their influence to shine. Preferably the ones who can keep it in their pants, for longer than a minute, around a 2d drawing.

It's pretty dumb to restrict the things you're passionate about like how you are describing. You might as well be scolding Shida Naotoshi for his exacting detail in how he draws hands at close range. I'll use another reference: I've just finished re-watching the first two episodes of Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann. Youko's shapely boobs are packed tightly into a sexy bikini top and special attention is paid to them to make them sexy. Why? Because it's obviously fun to draw and look at and by knowing that we understand that Youko is an object and totem of love. We ciphon enjoyment from viewing others' enjoyment. That's what makes art great and truly meaningful. Nobody enjoys reading or watching something the creator obviously has no obvious fun making. The best thing about the 2013 Dragon Ball film was just how much Yamadera Kou'ichi and Morita Masakazu were obviously having the time of their lives. What they created in that film is as satisfying as watching Kouno Megumi's hair porn move or watching Kirigaya Suguha's boobs move in Sword Art Online. Or Fujii Shingo and his fetish for drawing girls' thighs! It's all the same thing, incurring the same depth of satisfaction.

These guys draw fucking comics and cartoons for fun. They're obviously not in line with what society considers a proper job or way of life. That they have the maturing and honesty to hold no shame about liking the things they like and making the things they like is truly something to look up to.

Unless, you have no skill, money, or anything at all, but go ahead, and be honest. Lets see where it gets you

I have neither skill nor money, yet somehow I've gotten far enough to get under your skin, so I guess that's quite a bit gas in the tank.

The irony here being, of course, that I have no interest in being an illustrator or animator myself, but rather a writer.

[Saikyo no Senshi]

Yes, and I agree with you animation, and the drawings are. Uh the 1. Plot, 2. The characters. 3. Tone, uh the fourth most important thing. I can draw a pwetty thwing but nobody is going to give a fuck as there's none of the other big three in there, it also works in the reverse, but not as much.

The plot is brought to life by visuals(storyboard which is pretty much the script in visual form), the characters express themselves visually and the tone of a particular project depends on the director and what he thinks suits the project.

For example, an atmospheric cartoon needs to set up that atmospheric mood through its backgrounds, lighting, music et cetera and visuals also help in doing that. In fact they amplify it. Watch Boku Dake ga Inai Machi. It is a great example.

A good animated film or TV series is one that gives major emphasis to visual storytelling and since good Japanese cartoons are mostly lead by directors who themselves are animators, they use the animation medium to its full potential.

If that pretty drawing's intention was to be pretty and nothing else then it works. PreCure does that and it has been incredibly successful at doing that.

[ABED]

The plot is what matters, that's where the emotion comes from. The rest of it (artwork, music, direction) is all in service of the story.

The emotion in an animated film or TV series comes from animation. We care about the characters cause someone who is drawing cares about it too and successfully manages to express that emotion in animated form.

The plot is just on paper. How it's brought to life is what matters and that falls on the shoulders of the animators and the director's execution.

And if it's just quality animation but piss poor plotting and bland characters, then the animation is empty. It will be fluff. The plot is the basis for everything else. Even purely on paper, a story can still work without anything else. The same can't be said for animation. The animation works in service of the story, not the other way around. You've got it completely bass ackwards.

A good animated film or TV series is one that gives major emphasis to visual storytelling

Yes, visual STORYtelling.

[Gog]

Oh, shit, it's almost 1AM. I hate working so late.

y-you work? Um.... (Awkward silence)

Hey now, Otaku also fap to drawings of mechanical objects, too! That why mecha girls, like those from Kantai Collection, are so popular.

I'm not joking, either. There are no children Otaku, because to be capable of sex-based feelings is the foundation of an Otaku.

Of course, they do, regular men fap to drawings of mecha girls, and cat girls too. And yes that is why there so popular. I can realize that.

*smiles evilly* There are children Otaku, sex-based feelings arent the foundation, your just making this stuff up, an actual Otaku is some body with a hobby, which comes at the cost of their social skills. Anybody is an otaku.

"Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn." One of these days I should actually watch Gone With the Wind...

Huh, wondered where that quote came from. Gone from the wind you say, is it any good?

It sounds to me like you're confusing the general western idea of fandom with the actual realities of being an Otaku. I wouldn't call any user on this forum an Otaku (not even myself!) because nobody quite fulfills the necessary criteria of being possible not only of physical love for a 2D character, but emotional love, too. Most users here (well, most westerner geeks in general) also don't exhibit the highly fine-tuned ability to shift between fictional contexts.

*Smiles a bigger and more toothier smile* Except you've gotten the meaning of an Otaku, hilariously and completely utterly wrong, an Otaku is someone who has a hobbie that is bordering on an obsession that hinders his social skills. I'm proably an Otaku, as I have a few obsessions, that I rattle on end~lessly, and my social skills, are ungodly awful... Shame about that...
No that's a waifu, plenty of people have those I have one of those.

It's pretty dumb to restrict the things you're passionate about like how you are describing. You might as well be scolding Shida Naotoshi for his exacting detail in how he draws hands at close range. I'll use another reference: I've just finished re-watching the first two episodes of Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann. Youko's shapely boobs are packed tightly into a sexy bikini top and special attention is paid to them to make them sexy. Why? Because it's obviously fun to draw and look at and by knowing that we understand that Youko is an object and totem of love. We ciphon enjoyment from viewing others' enjoyment.

Um... No, I'll explain this later on, near the end of course, but I don't actually won't them to not be working what their passoniate about. In fact if their working on something I love, then good on them, I'm proud that this Shida Naotoshi can have all the fun in drawing hands at close range. I don't want to actually take that love away from him.
Actually speaking of Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann, heard its pretty good, been planning to watch it. Know any good places? And I completly understand that, and I love her design. But here's the thing Youko's wasn't just eye candy she was an actual character
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_nurDfEq9M Gajin Goomba explains my point well.

That's what makes art great and truly meaningful. Nobody enjoys reading or watching something the creator obviously has no obvious fun making. The best thing about the 2013 Dragon Ball film was just how much Yamadera Kou'ichi and Morita Masakazu were obviously having the time of their lives. What they created in that film is as satisfying as watching Kouno Megumi's hair porn move or watching Kirigaya Suguha's boobs move in Sword Art Online. Or Fujii Shingo and his fetish for drawing girls' thighs! It's all the same thing, incurring the same depth of satisfaction.

Except, if they have no skill in the industry, and honestly, they don't have to enjoy it just not hate what their working on, or displeased on what their working on. But yeah totally agree if they enjoy what their working on it'll be better than what the didn't like working on. Hmmmm, I don't think that its best that you mention vile, vulgar trash like SAO it does not. I. REPEAT it does not help your argument. But lets be honest, who doesn't like that?

These guys draw fucking comics and cartoons for fun. They're obviously not in line with what society considers a proper job or way of life. That they have the maturing and honesty to hold no shame about liking the things they like and making the things they like is truly something to look up to

I have neither skill nor money, yet somehow I've gotten far enough to get under your skin, so I guess that's quite a bit gas in the tank.

The irony here being, of course, that I have no interest in being an illustrator or animator myself, but rather a writer.

Actually, have you heard of something called hyperbolic humor, I just simply exaggerate my feelings to an ungodly level, to the point where they don't actually resemble my original feelings. I honestly was, only slightly annoyed, and aggravated from your post. It didn't actually piss me off.

huh, me to. Thinking of writing a few fanfictions. Perhaps I'll try my hand at a doujishn. Maybe I'll become an artist, and a writer? Who knows


Hmm, lets see if I can hit two birds with one stone? Yes, lets see if I can....

The plot is brought to life by visuals, the characters express themselves visually and the tone of a particular project depends on the director and what he thinks suits the project.

For example, an atmospheric cartoon needs to set up that atmospheric mood through its backgrounds, lighting, music et cetera and visuals also help in setting up that mood and amplify it. Watch Boku Dake ga Inai Machi . It is a great example.

A good animated film or TV series is one that gives major emphasis to visual storytelling and since good Japanese cartoons are mostly lead by directors who themselves are animators, they use the animation medium to its full potential.

If that pretty drawing's intention was to be pretty and nothing else then it works. PreCure does that and it has been incredibly successful at doing that.

'Sigh' so do you mean something like SAO, which had 'amazinwingly pwetty dwarings', and 'swuper dwuper weally gwood awnimwation?' Lets cut to the chase, the visual atheistic is only second to the actual story, there both important. Its just one edges the other one out. Honestly if you enjoy 'pwetty dwaings', and 'pwetty awnimu', then ROF, should have been your thing, but its not.

Also, a good show isn't just all animation, the story, and the plot, and the characters all matter more than that, other wise I can show you a pretty drawing of Goku humping a seel, and you'd be watching it for 30 minutes. Or SAO, cause clearly story doesn't matter

[Saikyo no Senshi]

I can only give examples and the best example is One Punch Man. A bald guy who is a hero one shots everyone and is bored of it and is looking for a challenge. He fights a new opponent in every episode and beats him/her effortlessly. That's it. That's the script in a nutshell. I think a lot of people would argue that this isn't even a plot.

But, the animation carries that show. And, it is a successful product. The director knows what the show needs and writing is not that, it's animation. Animators were so passionate about it, that they gave everything into it and the result was crystal clear. We got 12 episodes of brilliant visually satisfying moments which didn't even need plot or writing to catch somebody's attention.

I'm not trying to undermine a good story's importance. But, in a visual medium it's not the only thing matters. Especially Japanese cartoons. Storytelling is the correct word I guess and it comprises of music, acting, animation, direction, sound effects, backgrounds et cetera. The entire package makes a good animated film or TV series good.

[Ajay]

Some attitudes in here are totally out of line. Cut it out.

Talk to one another with respect, and hey, you might actually find some middle ground!

I really don't want to issue strikes. You all know the rules - please stick to them.

Thank you.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

but you can tell it was done for the sole purpose of giving Future Trunks the main kill.

Which didn't happen, now did it.

Which makes what happened feel slightly worse.

[Gog]

but you can tell it was done for the sole purpose of giving Future Trunks the main kill.

Which didn't happen, now did it.

Which makes what happened feel slightly worse.

I actually prefer it that way. It negates all the asspulls, and removes the worst ass pull of them all the future timeline

[ABED]

I can only give examples and the best example is One Punch Man. A bald guy who is a hero one shots everyone and is bored of it and is looking for a challenge. He fights a new opponent in every episode and beats him/her effortlessly. That's it. That's the script in a nutshell. I think a lot of people would argue that this isn't even a plot.

But, the animation carries that show. And, it is a successful product. The director knows what the show needs and writing is not that, it's animation. Animators were so passionate about it, that they gave everything into it and the result was crystal clear. We got 12 episodes of brilliant visually satisfying moments which didn't even need plot or writing to catch somebody's attention.

I'm not trying to undermine a good story's importance. But, in a visual medium it's not the only thing matters. Especially Japanese cartoons. Storytelling is the correct word I guess and it comprises of music, acting, animation, direction, sound effects, backgrounds et cetera. The entire package makes a good animated film or TV series good.

I think Dragon Ball more than proves my point. The animation is cheap, but the show still connects with people because the story and the characters. Obviously it should all work together and the better all the elements are, the better the overall product, but the story/characters are the foundation of everything. In your first paragraph, that's not a story, that's a summation and an idea. Plot and character is about execution. You are losing all of the nuance, details, and character by calling that the story. One of my favorite episode of Friends could be summed up as
A-Story: Ross and Rachel fight over who came onto whom the night they conceived their baby.
B-Story: Joey and Phoebe get annoyed by Chandler and Monica's stories about a couple they met on their honeymoon.
That's it, but what that misses is the execution of the story, the set ups, the payoffs, the dovetailing of the A and B story.

Another bit of proof that story and character is the most important aspect, look no further than TV. While production values have certainly increased, most shows have a tight schedule and budget that doesn't allow for the visuals of features, as a result, the visuals are often pretty pedestrian. It's a lot of over the should, over the shoulder, two shot. Sitcoms are especially guilty of this. And yet, people are engaged by good shows.

To bring it around to the actual topic, execution matters. Fan service is such a vague term that it encompasses so much. It can be good or bad. Typically when it doesn't occur organically, it's distracting.

[Gog]

I'm trying to not be an ass anymore, so no more hyperbolic humor. Actually yes, maybe. Eh, I'll stop being an ass.

I can only give examples and the best example is One Punch Man. A bald guy who is a hero one shots everyone and is bored of it and is looking for a challenge. He fights a new opponent in every episode and beats him/her effortlessly. That's it. That's the script in a nutshell. I think a lot of people would argue that this isn't even a plot.

Except, the main reason why everyone enjoys one punch man. Why I enjoy one punch man is because it is just so flawlessly well written and there is a plot. The men who didn't want to work. BOROS, and its all leading up to the finial battle. Saying that there's no plot is a ridiculous notion in on itself.

But, the animation carries that show. And, it is a successful product. The director knows what the show needs and writing is not that, it's animation. Animators were so passionate about it, that they gave everything into it and the result was crystal clear. We got 12 episodes of brilliant visually satisfying moments which didn't even need plot or writing to catch somebody's attention.

No, the animation is amazing, because the studio knows how to actually treat them so well. But the reason why its so successful is the plot, the premise, heck it originally was a wed comic that looked like shit. The writing. The animation, while incredibly good, is just the second fiddle, in the show. Okay I'm going to make this abundantly clear One. Punch. Man. Has. A. Plot, One punch man has great jokes, one punch man has amazing writing. Guess what that is.

I'm not trying to undermine a good story's importance. But, in a visual medium it's not the only thing matters. Especially Japanese cartoons. Storytelling is the correct word I guess and it comprises of music, acting, animation, direction, sound effects, backgrounds et cetera. The entire package makes a good animated film or TV series good.

Of course its not the only thing that matters, its just the most important thing, followed by everything else.

We need to end this here as this has goo~oonnee way of topic

[Saikyo no Senshi]

If that's what you think a good plot is then our definitions of what a good plot is very different. Genos is the only character that gets a little development. I see nothing amazing in the writing cause the writing in the show didn't matter. ONE, the author is a huge animation fan himself and it's the best adaptation he could possibly ask for. The show's strength lied in visually appealing action and it got that exactly.

The studio did nothing. The studios don't matter. All the amazing animation that people saw was the work of some of the best freelance animators in the industry which was brought on-board by a director who understands that One Punch Man is a visually demanding project and he also knew where to put major effort on. Which is animation, not the writing. And, he is one of the best directors in the industry because of that very reason.

I'll also end this thing cause I'm tired. Believe whatever you want to, but the entire package called storytelling matters most. One aspect of a show like the writing or plot maybe good, but if the rest is crap, then the overall product is also crap. OPM is an exception cause it got a team so ridiculously talented thanks to the director's connections, it was able to be successful on one aspect alone. Something like that doesn't happen very often and with that I rest my case.