Try to razionalize "stupid" desicions made by characters throughout the franchise

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Re: Try to razionalize "stupid" desicions made by characters throughout the franchise

Post by MarcBigleague » Mon Feb 20, 2017 6:55 pm

ekrolo2 wrote:
MarcBigleague wrote:
ekrolo2 wrote:Why didn't Black just wish for Super Shenron to unlock all of the power in Goku's body for him?
When he took over Goku's body he also might have merged with some brain cells of Goku. This is proven because he has the saiyan mindset of becoming in a state of mind that allows him to become super saiyn (rose). Now because he has some Goku brain aspects, would Goku ever wish Shenlong to grant him so many powers? I think not. As a result Black Goku didn't didn't do that.
So instantaneously though? This still wouldn't account for why Future Zamasu wouldn't suggest it to him. If Black had to spend an actual year waiting for the Super DBs to reactivate and his Saiyan instincts got that time to fester in his mind, I can see this working, but with the Time Ring he can switch bodies with Goku, murder him and his family then have another wish available in the span of 15 minutes.
Like I say to all of my adversaries, this is a very good point you make XD

But, remember...Zamasu becomes a saiyan. A body and mind aren't two complete separate things. Body and mind are one. For example during pre-natal development in male embryos, not only does testosterone affect the body but also affects the brain. So when Zamasu acquired a saiyan body, he acquired saiyan DNA and DNA is linked to brain and personality so he acquired Saiyan personality. Saiyans have lots of pride in their power (yes Goku may not have Vegeta-like pride but it's clear that Goku is one of the most arrogant shonen protagnoists ever!!!) And so yes Black doesn't want to cheat his way to his goal which is to defeat Son Gokuu. Zamasu got triggered because Gokuu somehow became stronger than a God without cheating. So now Zamasu wanted to make a point that at the end of the day a God should crush mortals. Cheating doesn't help his point, you see.

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Re: Try to razionalize "stupid" desicions made by characters throughout the franchise

Post by Gog » Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:11 pm

ekrolo2 wrote:
Gog wrote:
ekrolo2 wrote: So instantaneously though? This still wouldn't account for why Future Zamasu wouldn't suggest it to him. If Black had to spend an actual year waiting for the Super DBs to reactivate and his Saiyan instincts got that time to fester in his mind, I can see this working, but with the Time Ring he can switch bodies with Goku, murder him and his family then have another wish available in the span of 15 minutes.
But what's too say that it didn't happen instantly? Zamasu had just literally switched brain's with Goku.

Why did Gero never use the infinite energy reactors for himself?
He put his own mind in Goku's body, not share it with the guy, unless he's got the willpower of pre-Wall Sam Tarly, there's no way Goku's genetics should fuck with him so quickly.
But he's switching his mind with a completely different and alien species that once thrived on battle.

A metaphor for this would be stealing a car from some guy, giving him your old car, and murdering him and his family in cold blood. But here's the thing this new car, while much faster than your old car, operates in a completely alien way from your old car.

Your still you, but you're quickly forced to adapt to the new controls.
ekrolo2 wrote: And to answer your question, because the Android arc is shit.
That's most likely the most accurate awnser that I'm ever going to get on that question.

If Dr Gero was capable of creating beings surpassing Freeza, then why didn't anyone else make any?

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Re: Try to razionalize "stupid" desicions made by characters throughout the franchise

Post by ABED » Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:27 pm

If Dr Gero was capable of creating beings surpassing Freeza, then why didn't anyone else make any?
No one else was capable.
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Re: Try to razionalize "stupid" desicions made by characters throughout the franchise

Post by SingleFringe&Sparks » Mon Feb 20, 2017 8:23 pm

Lord Beerus wrote: Why in God's name did Goku give Cell a senzu? It still boggles my mind to this day. Never mind that Goku had no idea just how strong Cell was, but it was already an insane gamble to throw Gohan into the lions den without any plan and just hoping that he'd be able to spontaneously tap into the hidden power that he saw when he was training with Gohan in the ROSAT and defeat Cell. I don't give a shit how much Goku loves fighting and a good competition. That was such a fucking reckless thing to do. It essentially put Gohan at a disadvantage. And for what? A fair fight? Fuck that nonsense. Give me a legitimate reason why Goku pulled a stunt like that.
It could be my headcanon, but I thought it was already clear that Goku gave it to Cell because he was dead-set-sure that Gohan had it to beat Cell based on what he could sense in him, and that he knew Gohan's rage boosts would be enough to overpower him in an instant, as he did with every other villain. However he couldn't get Gohan under the pressure for it to instinctively come out, if Cell wasn't at his fill power. If Cell was warn out, it wouldn't push Gohan enough to get him to transform. I also think he did it in respect to Cell wanting a challenge as they agreed on. It isn't the most logical thing to do at all but it makes sense in the context of the setting, while ignoring Cell as an antagonist but as a fighter who in line thinks just like him. I still think Goku was holding back somewhat against Cell but he was just using the fact he could reason with Cell to test that plan. The same overestimation he had for when he didn't beat Fat Buu, but thought Fusion would be enough for the kids. Fat Buu was manageable enough for him to test his reckless theory, but not an out of control threat Kid Buu was.

This is probably the real demonstration of Goku's cocky, overestimating and shallow degree of naivety he is supposed to have; without him necessarily being as literally slow-witted as he is in Super & ROF.
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Re: Try to razionalize "stupid" desicions made by characters throughout the franchise

Post by omaro34 » Tue Feb 21, 2017 1:34 pm

Why didn't 17 and 18 finish off the Z fighters? Vegeta, Future Trunks, Piccolo, and Tien were all down for the count. I'm the willing to bet their future counterparts would have finished the job.
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Re: Try to razionalize "stupid" desicions made by characters throughout the franchise

Post by RehBeh » Tue Feb 21, 2017 1:46 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:Why in God's name did Goku give Cell a senzu? It still boggles my mind to this day. Never mind that Goku had no idea just how strong Cell was, but it was already an insane gamble to throw Gohan into the lions den without any plan and just hoping that he'd be able to spontaneously tap into the hidden power that he saw when he was training with Gohan in the ROSAT and defeat Cell. I don't give a shit how much Goku loves fighting and a good competition. That was such a fucking reckless thing to do. It essentially put Gohan at a disadvantage. And for what? A fair fight? Fuck that nonsense. Give me a legitimate reason why Goku pulled a stunt like that.
I believe there two possible reasons he did that.
Goku was like: Yo, Perfect Dumbass, mah son gonna give an ass whooping of once-on-a-lifetime style. Here, take a senzu so your sorry ass may have a chance.
Or
Goku wanted Gohan to reach his maximum potential, to tap into his anger. He wanted his son to become stronger than him. By having Gohan fight a tired Cell Gohan's potential wouldn't have been touched.
GT wasn't that bad
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RehBeh wrote:
ekrolo2 wrote: He is, its just that no one holds him in high esteem, even in-universe.
He must feel awful. Being a God and no one respects him. Just sad.
And Zamasu thought he had it bad. Fuckin' edgy Kaios thinking about "Justice" and shit just because they got strong by chance.

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Re: Try to razionalize "stupid" desicions made by characters throughout the franchise

Post by RehBeh » Tue Feb 21, 2017 1:49 pm

omaro34 wrote:Why didn't 17 and 18 finish off the Z fighters? Vegeta, Future Trunks, Piccolo, and Tien were all down for the count. I'm the willing to bet their future counterparts would have finished the job.
Wasn't it stated that this Artificial Humans weren't evil like the future counterparts?
GT wasn't that bad
DBZ Macky wrote:
RehBeh wrote:
ekrolo2 wrote: He is, its just that no one holds him in high esteem, even in-universe.
He must feel awful. Being a God and no one respects him. Just sad.
And Zamasu thought he had it bad. Fuckin' edgy Kaios thinking about "Justice" and shit just because they got strong by chance.

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Re: Try to razionalize "stupid" desicions made by characters throughout the franchise

Post by omaro34 » Tue Feb 21, 2017 1:52 pm

RehBeh wrote:
omaro34 wrote:Why didn't 17 and 18 finish off the Z fighters? Vegeta, Future Trunks, Piccolo, and Tien were all down for the count. I'm the willing to bet their future counterparts would have finished the job.
Wasn't it stated that this Artificial Humans weren't evil like the future counterparts?
I don't recall that being stated. I do recall them saying the present Androids were stronger the ones in Trunks' timeline.
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Re: Try to razionalize "stupid" desicions made by characters throughout the franchise

Post by RehBeh » Tue Feb 21, 2017 1:54 pm

omaro34 wrote:
RehBeh wrote:
omaro34 wrote:Why didn't 17 and 18 finish off the Z fighters? Vegeta, Future Trunks, Piccolo, and Tien were all down for the count. I'm the willing to bet their future counterparts would have finished the job.
Wasn't it stated that this Artificial Humans weren't evil like the future counterparts?
I don't recall that being stated. I do recall them saying the present Androids were stronger the ones in Trunks' timeline.
Then my memory must be shit lately.
GT wasn't that bad
DBZ Macky wrote:
RehBeh wrote:
ekrolo2 wrote: He is, its just that no one holds him in high esteem, even in-universe.
He must feel awful. Being a God and no one respects him. Just sad.
And Zamasu thought he had it bad. Fuckin' edgy Kaios thinking about "Justice" and shit just because they got strong by chance.

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Re: Try to razionalize "stupid" desicions made by characters throughout the franchise

Post by successoroffate » Tue Feb 21, 2017 2:03 pm

omaro34 wrote:
RehBeh wrote:
omaro34 wrote:Why didn't 17 and 18 finish off the Z fighters? Vegeta, Future Trunks, Piccolo, and Tien were all down for the count. I'm the willing to bet their future counterparts would have finished the job.
Wasn't it stated that this Artificial Humans weren't evil like the future counterparts?
I don't recall that being stated. I do recall them saying the present Androids were stronger the ones in Trunks' timeline.

I think it can be inferred that they are not as evil as their future counterpart because Android 16 played a role in kind of taming them and just focus on looking for Goku?
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Re: Try to razionalize "stupid" desicions made by characters throughout the franchise

Post by ekrolo2 » Tue Feb 21, 2017 2:04 pm

RehBeh wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote:Why in God's name did Goku give Cell a senzu? It still boggles my mind to this day. Never mind that Goku had no idea just how strong Cell was, but it was already an insane gamble to throw Gohan into the lions den without any plan and just hoping that he'd be able to spontaneously tap into the hidden power that he saw when he was training with Gohan in the ROSAT and defeat Cell. I don't give a shit how much Goku loves fighting and a good competition. That was such a fucking reckless thing to do. It essentially put Gohan at a disadvantage. And for what? A fair fight? Fuck that nonsense. Give me a legitimate reason why Goku pulled a stunt like that.
I believe there two possible reasons he did that.
Goku was like: Yo, Perfect Dumbass, mah son gonna give an ass whooping of once-on-a-lifetime style. Here, take a senzu so your sorry ass may have a chance.
Or
Goku wanted Gohan to reach his maximum potential, to tap into his anger. He wanted his son to become stronger than him. By having Gohan fight a tired Cell Gohan's potential wouldn't have been touched.
Gohan's gonna get his shit kicked in regardless if Cell has access to 100% or 70% power if he doesn't snap, at least by keeping Cell weak, it assures an even quicker end to the fight. I doubt Cell would've lived after Gohan's Kamehameha if he already got a good chunk of his power lost beforehand.
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Re: Try to razionalize "stupid" desicions made by characters throughout the franchise

Post by SansrivaaL » Tue Feb 21, 2017 2:23 pm

ekrolo2 wrote:
RehBeh wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote:Why in God's name did Goku give Cell a senzu? It still boggles my mind to this day. Never mind that Goku had no idea just how strong Cell was, but it was already an insane gamble to throw Gohan into the lions den without any plan and just hoping that he'd be able to spontaneously tap into the hidden power that he saw when he was training with Gohan in the ROSAT and defeat Cell. I don't give a shit how much Goku loves fighting and a good competition. That was such a fucking reckless thing to do. It essentially put Gohan at a disadvantage. And for what? A fair fight? Fuck that nonsense. Give me a legitimate reason why Goku pulled a stunt like that.
I believe there two possible reasons he did that.
Goku was like: Yo, Perfect Dumbass, mah son gonna give an ass whooping of once-on-a-lifetime style. Here, take a senzu so your sorry ass may have a chance.
Or
Goku wanted Gohan to reach his maximum potential, to tap into his anger. He wanted his son to become stronger than him. By having Gohan fight a tired Cell Gohan's potential wouldn't have been touched.
Gohan's gonna get his shit kicked in regardless if Cell has access to 100% or 70% power if he doesn't snap, at least by keeping Cell weak, it assures an even quicker end to the fight. I doubt Cell would've lived after Gohan's Kamehameha if he already got a good chunk of his power lost beforehand.
Gohan was quite close to his dad in power at the time wasnt he? (I dont remember it all too well, all I remember is Gohan not being surprised because everyone was in awe of Goku when he himself thought "why is everyone surprised? its not that impressive") if so then what Goku did makes sense, Gohan and Cell would have been on par with each other with Cell having the advantage of regenerating, outcome=Gohan dies if Cell didnt push Gohan's buttons, Cell wouldnt have been so calm as to think "Oh, ok lets unlock this brats hidden potential that you oh so put all your confidence in" if Goku didnt give him a senzu to replenish all his ki.

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Re: Try to razionalize "stupid" desicions made by characters throughout the franchise

Post by ekrolo2 » Tue Feb 21, 2017 2:29 pm

SansrivaaL wrote:
ekrolo2 wrote:
RehBeh wrote:
I believe there two possible reasons he did that.
Goku was like: Yo, Perfect Dumbass, mah son gonna give an ass whooping of once-on-a-lifetime style. Here, take a senzu so your sorry ass may have a chance.
Or
Goku wanted Gohan to reach his maximum potential, to tap into his anger. He wanted his son to become stronger than him. By having Gohan fight a tired Cell Gohan's potential wouldn't have been touched.
Gohan's gonna get his shit kicked in regardless if Cell has access to 100% or 70% power if he doesn't snap, at least by keeping Cell weak, it assures an even quicker end to the fight. I doubt Cell would've lived after Gohan's Kamehameha if he already got a good chunk of his power lost beforehand.
Gohan was quite close to his dad in power at the time wasnt he? (I dont remember it all too well, all I remember is Gohan not being surprised because everyone was in awe of Goku when he himself thought "why is everyone surprised? its not that impressive") if so then what Goku did makes sense, Gohan and Cell would have been on par with each other with Cell having the advantage of regenerating, outcome=Gohan dies if Cell didnt push Gohan's buttons, Cell wouldnt have been so calm as to think "Oh, ok lets unlock this brats hidden potential that you oh so put all your confidence in" if Goku didnt give him a senzu to replenish all his ki.
That only works if you think Goku is close to Cell's true power which he isn't, certainly not as Goku knew that even if he replenished his own reserves with a Senzu he'd be marginally closer to beating Cell than he was before. This implies quite a sizeable gap of power between Goku and by extension Gohan and Cell. More than enough of one to make everyone else skeptical about Goku's odds at winning and even Gohan's before Cell gets replenished too.
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.

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