Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.
Don't you guys think the annoucement made by the Grand Priest:
"Universe 1, 12, 5, and 8 are exempt from the Tournament of Power, because the average quality of mortals in them is high"
Makes the events of Future Trunks arc somewhat unbelievable to have happened?
I don't know if "quality" could mean just "power" or other things, but in the anime Goku Black has succeeded in destroying all the mortal life in 12 universes with U7 Earth being the last one for the "Zero Mortals Plan" fulfilment.
The question is: How?
Yes, he killed all Kaioshin causing the chain effect of killing the Hakaishin too, but what about the strongest warriors we might see in this arc that may be stronger than current Goku and Vegeta? Remember Black at time was somewhat stronger than SSJ2 Goku (the mortal who lives in a universe that is the 2nd lowest evaluated according to Zeno's rank), making this task beyond difficult to him.
It's unbelievable that the Angels and the Grand Priest himself in the future didn't gave a damn about it too...
Are we too old to enjoy new Dragon Ball movies/series?
Spoiler:
Nickolaidas wrote: Sun Jun 14, 2015 2:10 am
Guys, I'm going to be straight with you. If you feel the show has gotten 'silly' ... it hasn't. You're just 'too old for this shit'. Seriously, 95% of the people in those boards do not fit the target demographic of the show, so don't expect the show to be 'everything you hoped for'. I'm referring to the people here who expect Super to be rich with dark moments, serious storytelling, meaningful characters etc etc. It won't. It's a show for kids. A show for kids being kids. Everyone in those boards has a manchild in him/her, clamoring to get out, and that's fine. But having unrealistic expectations (such as believing the show grew up alongside you) is naïve at best. Honestly, do you take seriously a story where the supposed God of Destruction halts his urges to blow up stuff in order to eat ice cream sundae? That's the show's silliness at full force, take it for what it is. The show hasn't matured one bit, so don't expect it too. Again, I'm not saying that's a bad thing. I'm saying *that* is DB and always will be.
Noah wrote:Don't you guys think the annoucement made by the Grand Priest:
"Universe 1, 12, 5, and 8 are exempt from the Tournament of Power, because the average quality of mortals in them is high"
Makes the events of Future Trunks arc somewhat unbelievable to have happened?
I don't know if "quality" could mean just "power" or other things, but in the anime Goku Black has succeeded in destroying all the mortal life in 12 universes with U7 Earth being the last one for the "Zero Mortals Plan" fulfilment.
The question is: How?
Yes, he killed all Kaioshin causing the chain effect of killing the Hakaishin too, but what about the strongest warriors we might see in this arc that may be stronger than current Goku and Vegeta? Remember Black at time was somewhat stronger than SSJ2 Goku (the mortal who lives in a universe that is the 2nd lowest evaluated according to Zeno's rank), making this task beyond difficult to him.
It's unbelievable that the Angels and the Grand Priest himself in the future didn't gave a damn about it too...
No matter how much stronger you are then someone, if that someone is an immortal whom doesn't get tired and keeps healing then they'll overpower you eventually.
Are we too old to enjoy new Dragon Ball movies/series?
Spoiler:
Nickolaidas wrote: Sun Jun 14, 2015 2:10 am
Guys, I'm going to be straight with you. If you feel the show has gotten 'silly' ... it hasn't. You're just 'too old for this shit'. Seriously, 95% of the people in those boards do not fit the target demographic of the show, so don't expect the show to be 'everything you hoped for'. I'm referring to the people here who expect Super to be rich with dark moments, serious storytelling, meaningful characters etc etc. It won't. It's a show for kids. A show for kids being kids. Everyone in those boards has a manchild in him/her, clamoring to get out, and that's fine. But having unrealistic expectations (such as believing the show grew up alongside you) is naïve at best. Honestly, do you take seriously a story where the supposed God of Destruction halts his urges to blow up stuff in order to eat ice cream sundae? That's the show's silliness at full force, take it for what it is. The show hasn't matured one bit, so don't expect it too. Again, I'm not saying that's a bad thing. I'm saying *that* is DB and always will be.
Noah wrote:How can you be so sure about that, mate?
Not a single line of dialogue implies it is, while several indicate it is not?
I mean, I could tell you that Freeza's battle power system simultaneously measures strength and culinary skills, but there wouldn't be any basis for that.
Noah wrote:Don't you guys think the annoucement made by the Grand Priest:
"Universe 1, 12, 5, and 8 are exempt from the Tournament of Power, because the average quality of mortals in them is high"
Makes the events of Future Trunks arc somewhat unbelievable to have happened?
I don't know if "quality" could mean just "power" or other things, but in the anime Goku Black has succeeded in destroying all the mortal life in 12 universes with U7 Earth being the last one for the "Zero Mortals Plan" fulfilment.
The question is: How?
Yes, he killed all Kaioshin causing the chain effect of killing the Hakaishin too, but what about the strongest warriors we might see in this arc that may be stronger than current Goku and Vegeta? Remember Black at time was somewhat stronger than SSJ2 Goku (the mortal who lives in a universe that is the 2nd lowest evaluated according to Zeno's rank), making this task beyond difficult to him.
It's unbelievable that the Angels and the Grand Priest himself in the future didn't gave a damn about it too...
Quality of Mortals =/= Stronger Mortals . Maybe those universes are more developed , more peaceful AND do not cause destruction on a grander scale like at least U7 .
Hell , Frost always had a cover and probably saved some children even if he destroyed their race . [he did had to protect his cover of a savior] . Freeza just blew up everything for .. fun . Majin Buu [though probably NOT a mortal] , killed the FN Kai's .
Hell , even the Saiyan race of U6 seem are good natured and protective , unlike U7's .
Maybe Zamasu was right . He was getting angry at U10's . Then saw U7 and lost it . And then proceeded to destroy all Mortals and gods of all universes because he was unable to differ between any mortal anymore.
DHM211 wrote:Future Zamasu probably just killed them.
It wasn't implied in the anime that Goku Black killed the Gods alone?
I meant Future Zamasu probably killed all those powerful warriors in those 4 universes.
It's possible. So far we know both Goku Black and Future Zamasu terminated the lives of numerous mortals, the Earthlings are the only known mortals since we mainly see the villains on Earth in the Future Trunks saga. But now I wonder if Black would have attacked those mortals (U1, U5, U8, and U12) if he would known how powerful they are compared to the Earthlings from U7.
It's not necessary super powerful dudes. In U7, for example, the average power level is 1500-3000. In U1 it could be 500.000. We don't even know if he was referencing the power or other qualities of mortals. We need more information.
GT wasn't that bad
DBZ Macky wrote:
RehBeh wrote:
ekrolo2 wrote:
He is, its just that no one holds him in high esteem, even in-universe.
He must feel awful. Being a God and no one respects him. Just sad.
And Zamasu thought he had it bad. Fuckin' edgy Kaios thinking about "Justice" and shit just because they got strong by chance.
DHM211 wrote:Future Zamasu probably just killed them.
It wasn't implied in the anime that Goku Black killed the Gods alone?
I meant Future Zamasu probably killed all those powerful warriors in those 4 universes.
But tell me, how they did it? Black was responsible for killing the Gods, all right... But what about the mortals? Remember it wasn't their intent to destroy or damage planets, just the living people around there, so they couldn't just do that as a sneak attack to pull things faster. You expect me to believe immortal Future Zamasu on himself killed a bunch of strong warriors around the multiverse just relying in his broken regeneration? Also why didn't Black battle them too? He could get some decent Zenkai boost by doing that anyway, it's ludicrous to think that Earth was in fact the last planet for the fulfilment of the Zero Mortals Plan in the anime.
Are we too old to enjoy new Dragon Ball movies/series?
Spoiler:
Nickolaidas wrote: Sun Jun 14, 2015 2:10 am
Guys, I'm going to be straight with you. If you feel the show has gotten 'silly' ... it hasn't. You're just 'too old for this shit'. Seriously, 95% of the people in those boards do not fit the target demographic of the show, so don't expect the show to be 'everything you hoped for'. I'm referring to the people here who expect Super to be rich with dark moments, serious storytelling, meaningful characters etc etc. It won't. It's a show for kids. A show for kids being kids. Everyone in those boards has a manchild in him/her, clamoring to get out, and that's fine. But having unrealistic expectations (such as believing the show grew up alongside you) is naïve at best. Honestly, do you take seriously a story where the supposed God of Destruction halts his urges to blow up stuff in order to eat ice cream sundae? That's the show's silliness at full force, take it for what it is. The show hasn't matured one bit, so don't expect it too. Again, I'm not saying that's a bad thing. I'm saying *that* is DB and always will be.
Noah wrote:
It wasn't implied in the anime that Goku Black killed the Gods alone?
I meant Future Zamasu probably killed all those powerful warriors in those 4 universes.
But tell me, how they did it? Black was responsible for killing the Gods, all right... But what about the mortals? Remember it wasn't their intent to destroy or damage planets, just the living people around there, so they couldn't just do that as a sneak attack to pull things faster. You expect me to believe immortal Future Zamasu on himself killed a bunch of strong warriors around the multiverse just relying in his broken regeneration? Also why didn't Black battle them too? He could get some decent Zenkai boost by doing that anyway, it's ludicrous to think that Earth was in fact the last planet for the fulfilment of the Zero Mortals Plan in the anime.
How did Zamsau have broken regenerating? I think youre confusing future Zamasu for Merged Zamasu.
It is possible they could have made some exceptions to destroy planets with warriors that outclass them. Or Zamasu could have worn down the fighters and have Black go in for the kill.
Hopefully we get further clarification on what was/ is meant by the word "quality" (If we haven't already, and i'm late to the party).
Hopefully in the next episode.
Until then, i'm going to speculate that it could mean a few things.
1) It's referring to the population density of each universe, and 1, 12, 5, and 8 contain the most mortals over all, and would some how be considered less moral to erase those ones over the less populated universes. Although, if Zeno thinks there is too many universes and some need to be erased, I suppose this would be a logical approach as it is the "needs of many outweigh the needs of the few" mind set.
2) It's referring to the spiritual quality, and the amount of mortals that recognize and honor the Gods. Where as in other universe they are generally unknown or think little of the gods.
3) It's referring to the average strength of all individuals collectively within that universe. Which wouldn't mean that 1, 12, 5, and 8 have the strongest fighters it would just mean there universe is inhabited by the majority of planets having individuals with base powers of 10,000 (for example) and the tournament fighters could have only 1,000,000 (for example) which would still make them the strongest in their universe, but not the strongest fighters in the universal tournament.
This was one was of the minor gripes I had about this arc. The last line of defense against Black/Zamasu was only Future Trunks???
Goku Black was on Earth fighting Trunks for a year prior to when he went into the time machine. Despite being on Earth for a year, Goku Black could not kill every Earthling and 1 mortal who was a little below SSJ2 Goku. There's no way he wiped out every mortal except for the U7 Earthlings. Now in this arc there is at least 2 beings who can trade blows with SSJB Goku. It becomes even less plausible.
Erm I think you guys are overthinking this, Black and Zamasu go to different universes hunt the Kaioshin thus killing the respective GoD and deactivating the Angel and boom job done and they escape to another universe rinse and repeat. It isn't possible for regular schmoes to travel to different universes without aid and thanks to Zamasu and Black they have none and even if they could they don't know where in the hell they are anyway.
When was it ever stated that they wiped out every mortal in all other Universes? I don't remember a line like that being spoken. They killed all the gods and "took care of a couple of planets" before they attacked Earth. Is it a manga thing? Or am I just remembering things wrong?
Baggie_Saiyan wrote:Erm I think you guys are overthinking this, Black and Zamasu go to different universes hunt the Kaioshin thus killing the respective GoD and deactivating the Angel and boom job done and they escape to another universe rinse and repeat. It isn't possible for regular schmoes to travel to different universes without aid and thanks to Zamasu and Black they have none and even if they could they don't know where in the hell they are anyway.
Job done? Are your forgeting they said after eliminating all the mortals on Earth, their "Zero Mortals Plan" will be completed, implying it was the last planet? So they didn't just killed the Kaioshin and leave, they had spend some time dealing with all the living mortals in all other universes, what is impressive that didn't took centuries for them do that.
MajinMan wrote:When was it ever stated that they wiped out every mortal in all other Universes? I don't remember a line like that being spoken. They killed all the gods and "took care of a couple of planets" before they attacked Earth. Is it a manga thing? Or am I just remembering things wrong?
As I said above it was implied Future U7 Earth were the last living mortals, as people were speculating that Goku and cia could go to New Namek in Trunks timeline and restore everything, but Black stated all sets of Dragon Balls were destroyed.
Are we too old to enjoy new Dragon Ball movies/series?
Spoiler:
Nickolaidas wrote: Sun Jun 14, 2015 2:10 am
Guys, I'm going to be straight with you. If you feel the show has gotten 'silly' ... it hasn't. You're just 'too old for this shit'. Seriously, 95% of the people in those boards do not fit the target demographic of the show, so don't expect the show to be 'everything you hoped for'. I'm referring to the people here who expect Super to be rich with dark moments, serious storytelling, meaningful characters etc etc. It won't. It's a show for kids. A show for kids being kids. Everyone in those boards has a manchild in him/her, clamoring to get out, and that's fine. But having unrealistic expectations (such as believing the show grew up alongside you) is naïve at best. Honestly, do you take seriously a story where the supposed God of Destruction halts his urges to blow up stuff in order to eat ice cream sundae? That's the show's silliness at full force, take it for what it is. The show hasn't matured one bit, so don't expect it too. Again, I'm not saying that's a bad thing. I'm saying *that* is DB and always will be.
Yedis wrote:Despite being on Earth for a year, Goku Black could not kill every Earthling and 1 mortal who was a little below SSJ2 Goku.
Goku Black deliberately allowed Future Trunks' survival for his own ambitions. He wasn't incapable of the task, it simply wasn't his current goal (which Future Trunks curses him for when that's revealed).
MajinMan wrote:When was it ever stated that they wiped out every mortal in all other Universes? I don't remember a line like that being spoken. They killed all the gods and "took care of a couple of planets" before they attacked Earth. Is it a manga thing? Or am I just remembering things wrong?
I want to say that either Goku Black or Future Zamasu claimed that their Zero Humans Plan was almost complete. Unfortunately, I can't recall if that was truly in an episode (I attempted to comb through archived posts, too).
MajinMan wrote:When was it ever stated that they wiped out every mortal in all other Universes? I don't remember a line like that being spoken. They killed all the gods and "took care of a couple of planets" before they attacked Earth. Is it a manga thing? Or am I just remembering things wrong?
I want to say that either Goku Black or Future Zamasu claimed that their Zero Humans Plan was almost complete. Unfortunately, I can't recall if that was truly in an episode (I attempted to comb through archived posts, too).
One of the Zamasu's said something akin to "Now all that's left is Earth!" in regards to the plan. Most people immediately assumed that this meant he had exterminated every other planet, but it could also be that Earth was the last planet with powerful fighters opposing him.
Without the knowledge of what measurement the Omni Kings (or Whis' dad) judge universes by, the biggest difference of opinion between them and Zamasu seems to be: Zamasu values nature and hates people where the Omni Kings value a specific type of civilization and don't care about nature.
