Dragonball GT DVD release pre green bricks

[ABED]

It's consistency in the wrong direction.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

It's consistency in the wrong direction.

I hate NEP's on home releases anyway. Even though I sympathize for those who do want them, I can't muster enough willpower to care.

[Robo4900]

It's consistency in the wrong direction.

I hate NEP's on home releases anyway. Even though I sympathize for those who do want them, I can't muster enough willpower to care.

Yeah, but you do realise they go at the end of episodes, right?

You can just... Not... Watch them...

I've never understood the thought process behind this "I don't like this particular thing, so no one should ever watch it that way, because my way is best and everyone else is wrong if they disagree." attitude that seems to prevalent in so many fandoms. An ideal DVD/BD release would include all this kind of stuff, and anything someone doesn't like, they can just not watch. That's the main reason I'm so heavily against cropping; those who want it cropped can just set their TV to crop it. Any modern TV can detect areas of motion, and pan to the correct spot accordingly, and it means the people who watch it pillarboxed(The majority of fans) don't get screwed.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

It's consistency in the wrong direction.

I hate NEP's on home releases anyway. Even though I sympathize for those who do want them, I can't muster enough willpower to care.

Yeah, but you do realise they go at the end of episodes, right?

On initial broadcast, they're a taste of what's coming next week. They can build hype, or remind you of certain plot-points, or whatever. However, outside of the initial broadcast, they're basically useless. It's only as much a part of the show as any other advertisement.

You can just... Not... Watch them...

I've never understood the thought process behind this "I don't like this particular thing, so no one should ever watch it that way, because my way is best and everyone else is wrong if they disagree." attitude that seems to prevalent in so many fandoms. An ideal DVD/BD release would include all this kind of stuff, and anything someone doesn't like, they can just not watch. That's the main reason I'm so heavily against cropping; those who want it cropped can just set their TV to crop it. Any modern TV can detect areas of motion, and pan to the correct spot accordingly, and it means the people who watch it pillarboxed(The majority of fans) don't get screwed.

I never said they shouldn't be there, just that I don't like them and I don't particularly care whether they're included or not. If they are included, I'd rather them be extras, but I really can't even be bothered enough to actively advocate for that much.

[Robo4900]

I never said they shouldn't be there, just that I don't like them and I don't particularly care whether they're included or not. If they are included, I'd rather them be extras, but I really can't even be bothered enough to actively advocate for that much.

Well, you did say this...

I hate NEP's on home releases anyway.

Pretty strong words there.

Anyway, that rather nit-picky point aside...

I'd still argue that GT's Bricks are better no matter how you want to watch. May I ask what your problem with the DVNR is? It didn't make anything overly blurry, it didn't destroy textures, and Funimation didn't use any of the extensive processes that remove lines. Are you just against it on principle? I really don't get it.

The DVNR is not good to my eyes, and several people in this thread have said the same. Maybe it doesn't look that bad to you, but if your whole argument is that the DVNR isn't that bad, then you're not presenting a reason why the bricks are "Better" than the singles, you're just saying they're not worse... Besides, the encoding issues with the singles basically go away with good deinterlacing, making that a non-issue. And the Japanese title cards, NEPs, and proper OP(With the real GT logo, not the weird Funimation redrawn one) in good quality(The Funi OP is sourced from the creditless tape, which looks terrible) make the singles just better.

I have yet to see a valid argument against my points; all I've seen in this thread so far as a counter is "I don't think the DVNR is that bad" and "I don't care about the NEPs", which work as justifications for the individuals in question to go for whichever option ends up cheaper, but that doesn't get to the core of the discussion: Which one is better. And I haven't seen anyone give a valid reason as to why the singles aren't the better of the two, aside from the JP music on the dub track, which is a given anyway.

[ABED]

I hate NEP's on home releases anyway. Even though I sympathize for those who do want them, I can't muster enough willpower to care.

Thank god there's the skip forward button. It would be one thing if we were discussing an issue where there are no alternatives or no easy ones, but I don't know why anyone would hold any strong opinion on this subject like hate when it's easily dealt with by literally pressing a button.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

I hate NEP's on home releases anyway. Even though I sympathize for those who do want them, I can't muster enough willpower to care.

Thank god there's the skip forward button. It would be one thing if we were discussing an issue where there are no alternatives or no easy ones, but I don't know why anyone would hold any strong opinion on this subject like hate when it's easily dealt with by literally pressing a button.

I don't actually have strong feelings, I just don't like them and don't care that they're gone.

Well, you did say this...

I hate NEP's on home releases anyway.

Pretty strong words there.

Are they? I hate lots of things, that doesn't necessarily mean that I care enough to do away with then. Maybe it's a regional thing, saying you hate something isn't a very strong statement where I come from.

I have yet to see a valid argument against my points; all I've seen in this thread so far as a counter is "I don't think the DVNR is that bad" and "I don't care about the NEPs", which work as justifications for the individuals in question to go for whichever option ends up cheaper, but that doesn't get to the core of the discussion: Which one is better.

To be fair, it's not like I think the singles are vastly worse or anything, just that I think the Bricks were better in several regards. Keep in mind that when I say something is better, I don't mean that it's superior for everyone in every situation, just that it's better for me overall.

That said, you wanted reasons, so I'll give mine:

Firstly, and most minor, the practical difference:

• -I enjoy the casing and disk art far more.
  -More disks per episode
  -They're more affordable, which is crucial for someone like me.
  -While this may be minor for some. The compactness as well as having something to show off is a huge plus for me. However, I don't think that's what you're really looking for.

As far as the content itself:

• -New dub OP. While I do love the old rap for it's wonderful cheesiness, I can't help but want to commit seppuku if I hear it more than once a year.
  -The Tokunaga scored dub, need I go on?
  -I actually enjoy the more vibrant, if less accurate, Dragon Box colors of GT. It really works in a series so full of creative environments and designs and whatnot.
  -Noticeably better encoding (It is a problem on the singles, even if you don't notice it)
  -While I tend to prefer no DVNR, since it blurs the image, I can respect the intent as long as it isn't overused and/or overly re-sharpened, like Funimation did with Z twice. The application on these sets is perfectly serviceable, and I'm sure it's especially an advantage for those who like a more modern interpretation of these shows.
  -No NEP's is a plus for me, albeit one barely worth mentioning.

I'm sure I could think of more if I needed to, but I think this suffices. Aside from the NEP bit, which I'm sure everyone else disagrees with, this it probably what everyone else will tell you.

[ABED]

I like that the TV Special is on the final disc along with the last four episodes instead of a separate disc. I like watching episode 64 and right before the epilog, changing to the TV special, then after it's over, switching back to the epilog.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

I like that the TV Special is on the final disc along with the last four episodes instead of a separate disc. I like watching episode 64 and right before the epilog, changing to the TV special, then after it's over, switching back to the epilog.

In my opinion, the TV Special doesn't mesh all that well with the actual end of the series. Not that there are necessarily any contradictions, but the tone itself doesn't really fit. I prefer to watch it right after the Baby Arc.

[ABED]

I like that the TV Special is on the final disc along with the last four episodes instead of a separate disc. I like watching episode 64 and right before the epilog, changing to the TV special, then after it's over, switching back to the epilog.

In my opinion, the TV Special doesn't mesh all that well with the actual end of the series. Not that there are necessarily any contradictions, but the tone itself doesn't really fit. I prefer to watch it right after the Baby Arc.

I see what you mean, but it's chronological and the epilog brings me right back into the moment.

[Vorige Waffe]

The NEPs are usually left off because Toei seldom provide isolated M&Es to their NEP footage, hence Funi had to cut new ones when airing the show on Cartoon Network.

And the singles do not look good in motion. The poor encoding is evident, and again, it's primarily due to layered video tracks for the English dub, Japanese audio, and their respective credits. Layered video tracks will always result in sketchy video quality unless you're careful with your compression and workflow, hence why you don't see them much anymore (and possibly why the feature isn't even able to used on Blu-ray discs, among other reasons).

[Robo4900]

And the singles do not look good in motion. The poor encoding is evident, and again, it's primarily due to layered video tracks for the English dub, Japanese audio, and their respective credits. Layered video tracks will always result in sketchy video quality unless you're careful with your compression and workflow, hence why you don't see them much anymore (and possibly why the feature isn't even able to used on Blu-ray discs, among other reasons).

You don't know what you're talking about.
Branching simply adds additional video segments that are different from the main video. The DVD standard is built of two types of files: VOB files containing video, and IFO files containing information. VOBs usually basically contain raw video like the menu screens, the entire movie/TV episode content on a disc together, etc. The IFO files point to the parts that should be played depending on the options selected on the menus, and plays them. Branching only really adds a small amount of extra data.
If your theory was correct, all the Star Wars video releases would look like crap due to the branching providing translated text scrolls for multilingual DVDs.

As for how the singles look in motion, no one can seem to agree on it, thus it's clearly a subjective matter that everyone should be allowed to make up their own opinions on. It's like the lossless vs lossy audio debate; some notice the difference, some don't. No one can agree on who's right, because you can't see/hear anything exactly how someone else sees/hears it.

Firstly, and most minor, the practical difference:

• -I enjoy the casing and disk art far more.
  -More disks per episode
  -They're more affordable, which is crucial for someone like me.
  -While this may be minor for some. The compactness as well as having something to show off is a huge plus for me. However, I don't think that's what you're really looking for.

Valid points, although for me personally these factors are fairly irrelevant, as the singles can be sought out for fairly cheap, and I'm not too bothered about packaging.

As far as the content itself:

• -New dub OP. While I do love the old rap for it's wonderful cheesiness, I can't help but want to commit seppuku if I hear it more than once a year.
  -The Tokunaga scored dub, need I go on?
  -I actually enjoy the more vibrant, if less accurate, Dragon Box colors of GT. It really works in a series so full of creative environments and designs and whatnot.
  -Noticeably better encoding (It is a problem on the singles, even if you don't notice it)
  -While I tend to prefer no DVNR, since it blurs the image, I can respect the intent as long as it isn't overused and/or overly re-sharpened, like Funimation did with Z twice. The application on these sets is perfectly serviceable, and I'm sure it's especially an advantage for those who like a more modern interpretation of these shows.
  -No NEP's is a plus for me, albeit one barely worth mentioning.

I'm sure I could think of more if I needed to, but I think this suffices. Aside from the NEP bit, which I'm sure everyone else disagrees with, this it probably what everyone else will tell you.

The Dragon Box colours of GT are also on the singles. Both the singles and bricks use the Dragon Box masters, just not quite as far along in the restoration process. Either way, both have the same source. I suspect a mistake on Toei's end is why both Funi DVDs are interlaced.
As I said earlier in this post, the encoding is like lossy vs lossless audio; not everyone will notice it, so whether that's a problem depends on the person. For you, it bothers you, so it's a fair point, but it's something for the individual to figure out, and it's not something that can be done from screenshots.
Again, the DVNR seems to be a matter of personal opinion, and from what I've observed, people either hate the DVNR, or are indifferent to it.

So, from where I'm standing, the only objective benefit still seems to be Japanese music for the dub, with everything else being simply that the bricks are a tolerable compromise for convenience, unless you notice the macroblocking. A running theme in Funi's Dragon Ball releases.

I think it's best to leave it at: If you're going to watch in Japanese, take a look at some comparison clips for the two DVDs. Then, based on the differences in look, decide if the singles are worth the price and convenience difference. Meanwhile, if you're going to watch the show dubbed, you kind of have to get the bricks.
That's a good way to approach it.

[ABED]

The NEPs are usually left off because Toei seldom provide isolated M&Es to their NEP footage, hence Funi had to cut new ones when airing the show on Cartoon Network.

M&E's?

Toei's policy of not giving the NEP's makes them come off as dicks. What's their rationale?

[Kojiro Sasaki]

M&E's?

Music & Effects tapes (music-only and SFX-only masters) (they just call them “ME” in Japan: ME（音楽と効果音）)

[ABED]

M&E's?

Music & Effects tapes (music-only and SFX-only masters)

Thanks, man.

[Vorige Waffe]

As for how the singles look in motion, no one can seem to agree on it, thus it's clearly a subjective matter that everyone should be allowed to make up their own opinions on. It's like the lossless vs lossy audio debate; some notice the difference, some don't. No one can agree on who's right, because you can't see/hear anything exactly how someone else sees/hears it.

That's because not everyone's a videophile and isn't more discerning to things like video noise compression problems, which the singles have, and they look like butt. 4 episodes encoded onto one DVD5 do not a good encode make. Or least for Funimation it didn't.

But don't take my word for it, I'll let a handful of screencaps from the GT single Evolution speak for itself.











And yes, this was after they were deinterlaced. Any time there's fast motion or flashing effects, these discs just fall apart with their encoding. You can almost count the macroblocking on Liang Xing Long's back.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

That's because not everyone's a videophile and isn't more discerning to things like video noise compression problems

I probably should have mentioned this in my response. I can understand how someone who hasn't looked closely could overlook the issues on the old releases. I used to not know the difference between noise and compression artifacts, but once you do see it, you can't unsee, and it is not something you want to look at.

[Robo4900]

But don't take my word for it, I'll let a handful of screencaps from the GT single Evolution speak for itself.

Screencaps don't work for comparisons like this. You can't trust me to give good screencaps, because you could argue I'm using best case scenarios, and I can't trust you to give good screencaps, because I could argue you're using worst case scenarios.
Plus, as many -- including myself, multiple times -- have said, it looks better in motion.

Also, you just defeated your own point...

That's because not everyone's a videophile and isn't more discerning to things like video noise compression problems

That's exactly what I've been arguing all along; if you don't notice/care about this stuff, then it's not a problem. This isn't an objective thing that can be argued. It's like trying to decide if it's worth buying lossless music; people who don't notice the difference are fine with lossy, and no matter how many objective points you bring forward to contest this, ultimately, it's a matter of personal taste.

I think the best solution is: If you watch subbed, buy a GT single for cheap. Watch an episode. If you're fine with watching it like this, continue like this. If the compression bothers you, get the bricks.
I don't see what's so hard about this.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

You can't trust me to give good screencaps, because you could argue I'm using best case scenarios, and I can't trust you to give good screencaps, because I could argue you're using worst case scenarios.

For all your praise, I assume you do own the singles. Is that a fair assumption? Why don't you go through and verify it yourself instead of calling into question his screenshots? Not to disparage you or anything, just figure it may be more productive for everyone. I've checked mine, and was able to find examples almost immediately.

[Robo4900]

For all your praise, I assume you do own the singles. Is that a fair assumption? Why don't you go through and verify it yourself instead of calling into question his screenshots? Not to disparage you or anything, just figure it may be more productive for everyone. I've checked mine, and was able to find examples almost immediately.

Did you not actually read what I said?

My point isn't how bad the encoding flaws in the singles really are, my point is that a lot of people won't notice. And no amount of online comparisons can refute this fact. As I've said multiple times, the best thing to do is to simply get a single and watch an episode for yourself so you can make up your own mind.

I guess in this world of "Alternative facts" and "Fake news", people don't want to form their own opinions anymore.