DragonBall S̶u̶p̶e̶r̶ Rainbow

Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.

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DragonBall S̶u̶p̶e̶r̶ Rainbow

Post by CrazyPenguin » Fri Aug 04, 2017 6:40 am

DB was my childhood and DBZ was the best anime/cartoon series I have ever watched. Then GT and the Evolution movie came along and it was a disaster. And now you have DragonBall Super official from Akira Toriyama and WTF happened Akira to you seriously ?

I don't watch anime at all but DBZ is the only one I could watch every episode with excitement for a new episode but not DragoBall Super. DB Super is just BAD.
DBZ was made with passion, good story line and character development, unique transformations characters and enemies, great fights. But DB Super seems to be made purely for money leeching purpose from fans and nothing else.


THE BAD

Transformations - One thing that makes DBZ unique is transformations and the struggle to do it, remember that first super Saiyan time ? The wonder of not knowing what Super Saiyan 2 would look like ? And how about SS 3 with long hair and no eyebrows ? Well in DB Super all they do is change hair color, no imagination, no innovation, pure laziness. All you see is fu#kin color change like its a rainbow. Even GT has better transformation. And how about the struggle to get transformed ? In DBZ characters were so many times near death pushing their limits beyond to get to that point to transform, but in DB Super characters transforms for shit and giggles by feeling a fu#king tingle in their back with no effort at all....the F#ck ? Oh yeah and Golden Frieza really creative :problem: how long did it took to come up with that 5 seconds ? You have Google full of creative and unique fan art of transformations and you could not pick or get inspiration from one of those.

ENEMIES - Remember Frieza, Cell and Buu ? And the story of their history and rivalry with Sayians except Buu. Do you remember how Epic those characters were and their death is remembered as a epic final win for the good guys ending that saga with an epic end. Well in DB Super all of that is thrown out of the window because apparently in DBZ all of that did not mean jack sh#t when you can just revive them, kill them again in the same way and then revive them again. It just ruins the whole rivalry and story when you can fu#king RESPAWN like its a video game. Not to mention poorly created characters like they are from Power Rangers and Pride Troopers come on do they remind you of someone, yeah Ginyu force. How about that Frieza looking guy ? Female Brolly because Brolly was missing some tits apparently. Gods that are Harley Quinn and Joker, fat version of Berus, Transformers, Sailor Moon, Power Rangers, Teddy bears and gum balls. Come on ! :roll:

STORY - How I loved DBZ story the whole Saiyan history and journey after getting to know Goku characters from DB, the smart way they implemented characters into the story that played important part in the story. Not in DB Super, apparently there is no such thing as a story here. What is the story of DB Super exactly ? Journey of Gods ? Or just meaningless battles and transformations all the time with characters just being thrown at the series with little or no explanation and history. Even GT had better story then DB Super. DB Super has such bad story telling that they had to revive Frieza a DBZ character to have any story at all. As well as time traveling they had to bring that back as well. :yawn: Not only that but this series imitates all other series like Naruto, Bleach and ect from some serious Naruto jujitsu shit to sword fighting crap . It became like most of the anime out there and I hate that. I loved DBZ because it was unique from other anime because I don't like to watch anime in general. And DB Super never continues from DBZ it just went in his own direction and kinda ruins the whole DBZ story.

ANIMATION / DRAWING - Even DBZ had some bad drawing / animation moments but not even close as DB Super. The whole series is done in a rush with very little put into detail. Its like their moto is: "time is money, quantity over quality". Even characters look like modern shredded 1% fat body builders instead of buff warriors like in DBZ. They look seriously skinny. Just lazy ! :thumbdown:

CHARACTERS - Seriously from all the "original" (sarcasm) new characters they made they had to screw up the ones already from DBZ. Gohan became completely usless, Krillin and Master Roshi are apparently now on Super Saiyan level because that makes fu#king logic. And Vegeta got humiliated more then ever, in DBZ he had a lot of failures but here in DB Super they made him look like a bitch from time to time, dancing, cooking, Goku killing Frieza in front of his face instead of him having revenge on Frieza, nibbling a baby teether, ect. And to top it all of the God of all Gods is or are 2 little children behaved dolls who destroy universe if they are bored. :problem:

POWER LEVELS - Power levels in DBZ were bullsh#t we all know that. But in DB Super that bullsh#t reaches new level times 100. Characters that should not be able to even stand a chance against a Super Saiyan are now standing up against a God power. Frieza was not able to defeat Super Saiyan now he can fight equally with a God jumping that serious power gap between SSJ 2 and SSJ 3 like screw those 2 transformations and the struggle they went trough to get it. Few short months is what it takes to jump a serious power level gap compare to a lifetime what Vegeta and Goku went trough. How about that female Brolly power ? A true Super Saiyan power ? So wtf were Vegeta and Goku fake Super Saiyans so far ? What a bunch of posers :lolno:

BATTLE / FIGHTS - When it comes to fight scenes DBZ goes from badass to Epic in a second. You can catch up and see each blow landed at the opponent. Remember Majin Vegeta vs Goku ? Or Cell vs Goku ? Damn that was epic. Now in DB Super all you see is camera shaking all over the place and characters doing some light speed berserker rampage all over the place you can't even follow wtf is going on. Its like this series is made for you to watch while on ecstasy. I admit DB Super has some good fight scenes but most of is is done in a rush just being everywhere not being able to see wtf they are doing. DBZ had some slow motion or normal speed fights you could follow. DB Super just goes with trow as much as shit as possible and make it fast nobody will know wtf is going on.

COMEDY - DBZ has this, it has silly side to it, but DBZ gets very serious and tense when it needs to and keeps it that way when the stakes are high. Not in DB Super everything is apparently silly even when the danger is high. DB Super treats everything as a joke so I see the series as joke.

CLICHÉ - This series just repeats epic moments from DBZ all over again. It becomes boring to watch.



THE GOOD

GODS - The only thing that I found great about this series is idea of Gods and Berus himself. It is creative it is the right path to go with the power they reached. The only down side is how Goku became a God with no effort at all. Journey should matter for that moment to become epic like first time we saw SSJ, SSJ 2 and SSJ3

FIGHTS - There are some good fight scenes here. I mean is DragonBall at least they kept something right about it. Still nothing as epic as Majin Vegeta vs Goku or the Cell games but at least there is something positive in this series.




I watched DB Super with skipping episodes. It is just not interesting anymore its done very lazy with no innovation. I even watched GT every episode with pain but DB Super is not even worth watching to the fullest for me. Looks like every other anime out there and it is purely made to get money. Akira Toriyama lost his passion and innovation with DragonBall and the only story he is telling in DB Super is that he wants or needs money. He should have kept it Z.

Appropriate title for this series should be DragonBall RAINBOW
Last edited by CrazyPenguin on Sun Aug 06, 2017 9:07 am, edited 8 times in total.
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Re: DragonBall S̶u̶p̶e̶r̶ Rainbow

Post by sintzu » Fri Aug 04, 2017 6:58 am

CrazyPenguin wrote:
Transformations -

Agree 100%, they could've done so much with them but they picked the very easy way out.

ENEMIES -

Goku Black and Hit ? Super is still on going so we don't have that many but to say what we do have is bad is just plain unfair.

STORY -

It's still ongoing and by the time it's done I think everything will fit together perfectly. Remember how everyone said that RF was just a one shot story that had no weight to the overall plot ? no one's saying that anymore.

ANIMATION / DRAWING -

I don't like it either, we've gotten some good parts but overall it's not very good.

CHARACTERS -

Another thing I miss from the original, back then we had all these great characters going through arcs like Vegeta and Gohan which is something we don't have now even though we're 100 episodes in.

POWER LEVELS -

Another mess that's been talked about to death.

BATTLE / FIGHTS -

I think things have come a long way since it started but I still think a lot of improvements can be made.

GODS -

I really like the new hierarchy and can't wait to see where it all goes.
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Re: DragonBall S̶u̶p̶e̶r̶ Rainbow

Post by CrazyPenguin » Fri Aug 04, 2017 7:13 am

Goku Black and Hit are another example of not being creative with the characters. I mean Goku black its literally Goku but evil in black uniform. And Hit is taken from Hitman acts the same way only with super powers.
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Re: DragonBall S̶u̶p̶e̶r̶ Rainbow

Post by sintzu » Fri Aug 04, 2017 7:16 am

CrazyPenguin wrote:Goku black its literally Goku but evil in black uniform.
There's a lot more to it than just that, first being it's not even Goku but Zamasu in his body.
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Re: DragonBall S̶u̶p̶e̶r̶ Rainbow

Post by CrazyPenguin » Fri Aug 04, 2017 7:24 am

sintzu wrote:
CrazyPenguin wrote:Goku black its literally Goku but evil in black uniform.
There's a lot more to it than just that, first being it's not even Goku but Zamasu in his body.
Body snatching seen that in DBZ already

Also forgot to mention time traveling abuse on this one. Seen in DBZ as well.

I would rather like it if Goku the real one went evil. Well not really evil because that would ruin his character and we all know Goku. But him doing something bad that he thinks would bring good because he is dumb and does things like that and then all consider Goku as enemy for putting them in danger and fight him to kill him for their own safety. Similar like the tournament of power but it did not went that way.
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Re: DragonBall S̶u̶p̶e̶r̶ Rainbow

Post by TheBigBoy » Fri Aug 04, 2017 7:41 am

Shit thread.

They had Goku fight somebody! SEEN IT ALREADY, BUDDY.

Dragon Ball Super? More like Dragon Ball SUXORZZ

Nothing can epically match the match the epic epicness of Dragon Ball (epic) ZEEE!!!

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Re: DragonBall S̶u̶p̶e̶r̶ Rainbow

Post by CrazyPenguin » Fri Aug 04, 2017 7:47 am

TheBigBoy wrote:Shit thread.

They had Goku fight somebody! SEEN IT ALREADY, BUDDY.
more like shit comment

Goku is the main character and this series is about fighting. This is expected that Goku fights most of them not just somebody
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Re: DragonBall S̶u̶p̶e̶r̶ Rainbow

Post by Trickster » Fri Aug 04, 2017 10:04 am

I think the most damage problem is what they're doing with the characters. The story can be a total crap, but when character are, at least, the same, the show still remains tolerable. I like to use Supernatural TV show as an example of this.

They turned Goku into a complete dumbass. Super's Goku can't even formulate a sentence with more than 5 word. In, I think, 2 minutes of that tournament, he already let his guard down 4 times.
Vegeta is nothing but a tsundere, who still wants to surpass Goku, contradicting the character's conclusion at the end of Boo Saga (which Toriyama retconed in the kanzenban version).

Also, there are plenty of plot holes in every single episode, and the script is lazy as fuck. Why did Goku wanted to save Kale and Caulifla, on the last episode, if they're enemies? Why weren't they atacked by any other characters while they were running away? Why didn't that girl from Jiren's group (which is "inspired" in Ginyu Troop) didn't lock everyone in that "another dimension's ball" and pushed them from the arena, just like 18 did to her?

Now, me and some friends have a channel on YouTube, where we comment about DBS episodes, and they (the staff) surprise me every week about how bad this show can be.
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Re: DragonBall S̶u̶p̶e̶r̶ Rainbow

Post by MaskedRider » Fri Aug 04, 2017 10:06 am

Transformations
Honestly I prefer the less is more of the transformations in Super and like that the God transformations seem to be on their own shelf. While Super Saiyan 4 is the more creative design I will admit, overtime I began to develop a distaste toward it because I'm not a fan of the darkness (not talking about color) of its look and at the time the creative processes for the next Saiyan transformation would have been Super Saiyan five and then six and then seven and OH MY GOD we don't need that. Honestly I thought Z overplayed transformations, Freeza has four of them, Cell has three of them, Boo has three of them, Saiyans have three of them and you can get into grades and its like WHHHHAAAAT. Oh and Zarbon. Super Saiyan God is an amazing transformation because of how different it is to be achieved and what it means to be able to have access to it. Golden Frieza is...yeah they really could have done more to be honest though I understand it from a symbolic standpoint.

Enemies
To be fair people have been making jokes about being able to just resurrect characters long before Super. I actually don't mind how Toriyama brought back Freeza because not only is he perfect to bring back for Goku and Vegeta but also I like that we got to see more of that empire Freeza had been running and how they were doing after his defeat. Super and Z are not supposed to be the same show and I can appreciate the lack of real villains for the overall theme that they are trying to tell with character interaction and interaction with the Gods.

Story
Super's story is painfully obvious, mortals not knowing their place and challenging the Gods. Super is not Z, its not supposed to be Z, it just rolls with what Z gave to us and be its own product.

Animation / Drawing
I can give you this one because it is true but its not fair to call it lazy. Taking into consideration the anime process, its far from being lazy and taking that with poor planning they made the job tougher on themselves.

Characters
I honestly don't see the problem with the characters, the only time I was truly having a headache is Goku during the Future Trunks arc.

I don't care about power levels.

Fights
They are serviceable. The fights in Z are more epic but I would be lying if I said I wasn't on the edge of my seat during some fights in Super.

Comedy
While Super is highly silly, its comedy is still good old Dragon Ball and you would be lying to yourself if you didn't throw a smirk or giggle or two.

I don't know what you mean with the cliche.

"I mean Goku black its literally Goku but evil"
No he isn't. Black is Zamasu in Goku's body and he explains why he took his body. Turles is the closest to what literally Goku but evil we will get.

"And Hit is taken from Hitman"

Never seen but I mean, he is a hitman and his character seems on point for one so I don't see the issue.

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Re: DragonBall S̶u̶p̶e̶r̶ Rainbow

Post by ABED » Fri Aug 04, 2017 10:11 am

Does there have to be one story for the whole series?
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Re: DragonBall S̶u̶p̶e̶r̶ Rainbow

Post by MaskedRider » Fri Aug 04, 2017 10:55 am

ABED wrote:Does there have to be one story for the whole series?
There doesn't have to be but I don't see the problem if there is just one.

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Re: DragonBall S̶u̶p̶e̶r̶ Rainbow

Post by ABED » Fri Aug 04, 2017 10:58 am

MaskedRider wrote:
ABED wrote:Does there have to be one story for the whole series?
There doesn't have to be but I don't see the problem if there is just one.
Sure, but that wasn't my point. I have no issue with it all being one story. It doesn't all have to be one giant story anymore than the rest of DB was.
The story can be a total crap, but when character are, at least, the same, the show still remains tolerable. I like to use Supernatural TV show as an example of this.
That's pretty much any show. Even in episodes that suck, the characters can make it palatable. It's harder in more heavily serialized shows.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: DragonBall S̶u̶p̶e̶r̶ Rainbow

Post by CrazyPenguin » Fri Aug 04, 2017 11:43 am

ABED wrote: Sure, but that wasn't my point. I have no issue with it all being one story. It doesn't all have to be one giant story anymore than the rest of DB was.
one of the things that made DBZ fights epic for me is the build up to the fight, and that is what the story did, it builded up to the fight and then you have an Epic enjoyable fight that has meaning.

For example
Frieza saga builded up the whole story of the Saiyans and then you get an epic fight against him who was responsible for their extinction and Goku being send as a baby to Earth as a conclusion to the saga
Cell saga and Android saga builded up early from the DragonBall itself where the whole plot was revenge on Goku for destroying Red Ribon Army and then you have epic fight against them as a conlusion to the saga
Buu saga is the saga that actually drop an in randomly with no connections to the main characters but then builded up the story to Supreme Kai's, Majin Vegeta, Vegito and fusions and it gave some epic fights

Unlike DB Super that trows in characters randomly with no story or connection but just meaningless fight all the time. It does not give any suspense at all or meaning to the fight for me to enjoy it
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Re: DragonBall S̶u̶p̶e̶r̶ Rainbow

Post by ABED » Fri Aug 04, 2017 12:11 pm

CrazyPenguin wrote:
ABED wrote: Sure, but that wasn't my point. I have no issue with it all being one story. It doesn't all have to be one giant story anymore than the rest of DB was.
one of the things that made DBZ fights epic for me is the build up to the fight, and that is what the story did, it builded up to the fight and then you have an Epic enjoyable fight that has meaning.

For example
Frieza saga builded up the whole story of the Saiyans and then you get an epic fight against him who was responsible for their extinction and Goku being send as a baby to Earth as a conclusion to the saga
Cell saga and Android saga builded up early from the DragonBall itself where the whole plot was revenge on Goku for destroying Red Ribon Army and then you have epic fight against them as a conlusion to the saga
Buu saga is the saga that actually drop an in randomly with no connections to the main characters but then builded up the story to Supreme Kai's, Majin Vegeta, Vegito and fusions and it gave some epic fights

Unlike DB Super that trows in characters randomly with no story or connection but just meaningless fight all the time. It does not give any suspense at all or meaning to the fight for me to enjoy it
The Saiyan arc isn't a result of anything that happened in DB. There's a link to the main character and the antagonists, but it's not a result of the preceding story. I enjoy it as much as anything that came before. I also enjoy the Freeza arc as well, in part because it was an organic extention of what came before. But stories don't have to be that to be good. The longer the build up doesn't guarentee a better payoff. I get emotional at the end of the Piccolo Daimao arc because it was a well done story, but it has little connection to what came before. It's about execution.

I'm not liking the constant transformations. It's a cheap gimmick.
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Re: DragonBall S̶u̶p̶e̶r̶ Rainbow

Post by emperior » Fri Aug 04, 2017 1:08 pm

I like Z more than Super even though it was extremely slow-paced. But you shit way too much on Super, so maybe you should just stop watching it or try to watch it without your DBZ nostalgia goggles on.
Sure, Super had a rough a start, but ever since the US arc it has been very consistent in terms of art and animation, and the characters interactions have also gotten better. We got some new awesome characters such as Beerus, Whis, Hit, Future Mai, Black Goku, Zamasu, Gowasu, Caulifla, Zeno and some others and I'm sure we will get many more great characters. That's plenty if you ask me. I also like the show's pacing, very few episodes have been boring and the fillers have been one of the best parts of the show.

Transformations

About transformations, you are not wrong. They have been handed a little bit too easy in Super (except for Vegeta getting Blue which was done a little better) though this is following a trend started from Buu arc where Goku pulled SSJ3 out of his ass. So that's not a Super-only problem, and I would wait for Super to end before giving my full opinion on the argument as this may very well be a plan from Toriyama to make transformations useless in the future (or at least I hope). By the way, Super Saiyan God is more than a re-color as Goku's aura, pupils and body also changed.

Enemies

We got Black and Zamasu which are among the best villains we ever got in this franchise. Then we have Hit, who has some awesome abilities. I really like him and I've seen very few people hating on him. Same as Beerus. As for Freezer, he was lame in RoF arc but ever since he was brought back he has been extremely entertaining and who knows what he will do in the future.

Story

Hold on before judging Super's story, as it could end up to be awesome in its entirety once the show ends. The theme is about mortals vs Gods, which is very interesting.
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Re: DragonBall S̶u̶p̶e̶r̶ Rainbow

Post by CrazyPenguin » Fri Aug 04, 2017 3:05 pm

emperior wrote:I like Z more than Super even though it was extremely slow-paced. But you shit way too much on Super, so maybe you should just stop watching it or try to watch it without your DBZ nostalgia goggles on.

Hold on before judging Super's story, as it could end up to be awesome in its entirety once the show ends. The theme is about mortals vs Gods, which is very interesting.
Do you say the same to yourself and every other fan of DragonBall that watched GT and the Evolution movie till the end ? Even tho everyone hated it they still watched it

If I was watching it with DBZ nostalgia then I would love the series right from the start because they repeat a lot of DBZ moments over again. But that is not the case either you did not read my post to the fullest or just don't know the definition of nostalgia. I don't like the series to keep going back to DBZ and repeating the same thing over and over again. As well as not having a story or character development. I want them to move and and continue with DragonBall story. This series became just like any other anime out there instead of keeping it original.

100 episodes in still not going any better, and the 700 episode announcement (not or is official) just tells me they are stretching this series for money income nothing else.
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Re: DragonBall S̶u̶p̶e̶r̶ Rainbow

Post by CrazyPenguin » Fri Aug 04, 2017 3:10 pm

ABED wrote:
CrazyPenguin wrote:The Saiyan arc isn't a result of anything that happened in DB.
When did I said it was ? The Android arc is and that is what I said
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Re: DragonBall S̶u̶p̶e̶r̶ Rainbow

Post by Cetra » Fri Aug 04, 2017 3:19 pm

CrazyPenguin wrote: ... and this series is about fighting.
No, it is not. A heavily action based show does not make it "about fighting". You are characterising the show as badly as you think Super is. Fighting/Action is ONE aspect. Dragon Ball is also a heavy comedy show. And Super does both.
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Re: DragonBall S̶u̶p̶e̶r̶ Rainbow

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Fri Aug 04, 2017 4:18 pm

Cetra wrote:
CrazyPenguin wrote: ... and this series is about fighting.
No, it is not. A heavily action based show does not make it "about fighting". You are characterising the show as badly as you think Super is. Fighting/Action is ONE aspect. Dragon Ball is also a heavy comedy show. And Super does both.
Yeah the series is primarily about fun characters and their interactions & this got lost somewhat during the Z portion it found it's way back somewhat in the Buu arc and fortunately Super has continued it brought it back in a great way we've had so many wonderful episodes that aren't about falt out fighting an enemy and have been great. Goku doing manual labour, Vegeta attempting to cook, a "friendly" baseball competition a freaking Dr Slump crossover... Brilliant stuff.

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Re: DragonBall S̶u̶p̶e̶r̶ Rainbow

Post by CrazyPenguin » Fri Aug 04, 2017 4:30 pm

Cetra wrote:
CrazyPenguin wrote: ... and this series is about fighting.
No, it is not. A heavily action based show does not make it "about fighting". You are characterising the show as badly as you think Super is. Fighting/Action is ONE aspect. Dragon Ball is also a heavy comedy show. And Super does both.

before putting my words out of context you should have quoted the entire thing like this
CrazyPenguin wrote:
TheBigBoy wrote:Shit thread.

They had Goku fight somebody! SEEN IT ALREADY, BUDDY.
more like shit comment

Goku is the main character and this series is about fighting. This is expected that Goku fights most of them not just somebody
The guy said if Goku fight somebody it has already been seen. Of course in a series that is about fighting or action packed you should see main character do it a lot. I did not said this show was only fighting and I did not characterize it as such. I even mentioned the comedy part in my 1st original post that started this topic

You just picked few of my words and decided to put it out of context
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