Krillin and 18 relationship?!

Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.

Moderators: Kanzenshuu Staff, General Help

Arugela
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 215
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2017 12:12 pm

Krillin and 18 relationship?!

Postby Arugela » Fri Sep 15, 2017 1:05 pm

It just popped into my head that cell was made up of Krillins cells... And since cell is 1/8th or so Krillin does that in any way mean that 18 is biologically related to Krillin? I'm not sure of her origins so I don't know how that should work out. But that got me thinking. Their daughter is treated in a very, "special," manner. Is it possible she is supposed to be mentally handicapped or similar. In the movies there were hilbilly androids and other odd things. Maybe this is like a hillbilly married your 1st/2nd cousin/sister thing... Is this officially part of their relationship in the view of the DB storyline?! Her interest in Krillin could be viewed as a bit creepy. And don't they have different views of marrying closer relatives in Japan?! Or at least more prone to make jokes about it.(Although who makes more jokes in that regard might be hard to measure.)

In summary, is it possible this is a hot blonde cousin joke or similar country bumpkin joke... Where was Krillin supposed to be from in the original dragon ball? I forget his origins in that regards. They usually state where they are from in a general sense at some point and indicate whether they were from the city or the boonies or similar as part of the characters background.
Last edited by Arugela on Fri Sep 15, 2017 1:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
VegettoEX
Kanzenshuu Co-Owner & Administrator
Posts: 15270
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2004 3:10 pm
Location: New Jersey
Contact:

Re: Krillin and 18 relationship?!

Postby VegettoEX » Fri Sep 15, 2017 1:16 pm

Kuririn didn't marry Cell; he married 18. That Cell has DNA from anyone else has nothing to do with Kuririn and 18.

Marron is treated like a baby because she is a baby. The only problematic issue is for something like Super where the kids should ALL be shown both from a design and writing standpoint to be older than they otherwise appear to be.
:: [| Michael "VegettoEX" LaBrie |] ::
:: [| Kanzenshuu |] - [| VegettoEX.com |] ::

Arugela
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 215
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2017 12:12 pm

Re: Krillin and 18 relationship?!

Postby Arugela » Fri Sep 15, 2017 1:19 pm

I wasn't sure if 18 was a living person because she was born or because her creature made here. If she was a test tube person then turned into or grown with cybernetics she could be made up of the same DNA used for cell. And if Krillin was a country bumpkin like I'm thinking they portrayed him before he became a fighter it could be a running joke on krillins character. It would depend on how 18 became human I would think. That is the part I'm not sure about.

There are a lot of jokes about this in anime. There are whole mainstream anime with this as a subtle or not so subtle theme like tenchi muyo, if I recall correctly.

LowRyder2005
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1173
Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2015 2:46 am

Re: Krillin and 18 relationship?!

Postby LowRyder2005 » Fri Sep 15, 2017 1:23 pm

#18 was born a normal human, named Lazuli, who was simply modified in some way by Gero after they met each other at some point before the Android Arc. In other words, she's not an offspring of Cell and should basically be related to Krillin as much as a random person from a crowd could be.
Last edited by LowRyder2005 on Fri Sep 15, 2017 1:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
KBABZ
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 491
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2017 9:38 pm

Re: Krillin and 18 relationship?!

Postby KBABZ » Fri Sep 15, 2017 1:23 pm

Arugela wrote:Where was Krillin supposed to be from in the original dragon ball? I forget his origins in that regards. They usually state where they are from in a general sense at some point and indicate whether they were from the city or the boonies or similar as part of the characters background.

Krillin said that he came from Oran (Orin?) Temple, so I assumed a boonies origin with the temple being in the jungle, due to that being the location of his first appearance. That's mostly an association thing though, since we never see the outside of the temple, just the interior. (can't say for sure if the exterior was depicted in the second Dragon Ball movie though)

Arugela wrote:I wasn't sure if 18 was a living person because she was born or because her creature made here. If she was a test tube person then turned into or grown with cybernetics she could be made up of the same DNA used for cell. And if Krillin was a country bumpkin like I'm thinking they portrayed him before he became a fighter it could be a running joke on krillins character. It would depend on how 18 became human I would think. That is the part I'm not sure about.

18, and her brother 17, used to be humans called Lapis and Lazuli. They were taken by Dr. Gero and converted into Androids (an Android is partially organic by definition). They make it a bit of a point when meeting 16 that he's full cybernetic from the ground up, making him different. And in the Buu saga, Krillin mentions to Goku the fact that she's still somewhat organic, and if I recall correctly he even said in the old Funi dub that "she still has some working parts".
Last edited by KBABZ on Fri Sep 15, 2017 1:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Arugela
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 215
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2017 12:12 pm

Re: Krillin and 18 relationship?!

Postby Arugela » Fri Sep 15, 2017 1:24 pm

Oh, well. I thought that would be a funny krillin joke in the show. Him marrying his cousin would be pretty humerous.

And didn't they wish 18 back to full human with the dragon balls? I keep seeing people talk like she is still cyborg. But I swore they used the dragon balls to change both of them back in some way. Was this an anime only dub thing or something?

Nvm, found a thing saying shrenron couldn't because they were too strong...

LowRyder2005
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1173
Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2015 2:46 am

Re: Krillin and 18 relationship?!

Postby LowRyder2005 » Fri Sep 15, 2017 1:36 pm

KBABZ wrote:18, and her brother 17, used to be humans called Lapis and Lazuli. They were taken by Dr. Gero and converted into Androids (an Android is partially organic by definition). They make it a bit of a point when meeting 16 that he's full cybernetic from the ground up, making him different. And in the Buu saga, Krillin mentions to Goku the fact that she's still somewhat organic, and if I recall correctly he even said in the old Funi dub that "she still has some working parts".


Just gonna nitpick here a fairly inconsequential, itsy-bitsy detail: In the usual textbook sci-fi definition, an android is designed to only mimic a human appearance and be completely engineered; a humanoid replicant of the sort, in short. Android #17 and #18 would technically be cyborgs (part-human/ part-machine), while #16 and #19 would appear to be bona fide androids. Ever seen "Blade Runner" or read "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep"? That's basically the gist of it.

Gero would be a fun one to insert in some legal definition, though: he's narratively supposed to be "completely mechanical", but he has that big (and at bare minimum organic-looking) brain that's pretty much implied to be from the original Gero.

I guess he should technically fall into the same group of #17 and #18, and not that of #16, whom I'd suppose is just "modeled" after Gero's son appearance... unless he follows Gero's "random" criteria of being defined "completely mechanical" when in fact he may as well not be.

User avatar
floofychan333
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1226
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2016 10:03 pm
Location: Edmonton, Canada

Re: Krillin and 18 relationship?!

Postby floofychan333 » Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:57 pm

VegettoEX wrote:Kuririn didn't marry Cell; he married 18. That Cell has DNA from anyone else has nothing to do with Kuririn and 18.

Marron is treated like a baby because she is a baby. The only problematic issue is for something like Super where the kids should ALL be shown both from a design and writing standpoint to be older than they otherwise appear to be.


Isn't she like 11 now or something?
"All of you. All of you must have KILL all the SEASONS!" -Dough (Tenshinhan), Speedy Dub of Movie 9.

"My opinion of Norihito's Sumitomo's new score is... well, very mixed. The stuff that's good is pretty darn good, but the stuff that's bad makes elevator music sound like Jerry freaking Goldsmith." -Kenisu

Arugela
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 215
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2017 12:12 pm

Re: Krillin and 18 relationship?!

Postby Arugela » Mon Sep 18, 2017 5:08 am

Maybe her mothers cyborg parts make her part cyborg and modifies the child in the womb. That would be a clever way to get future, "androids." It could slow, or otherwise modify, her ageing like being a Saiyan potentially does. Did they ever confirm if Marron is fully human or cyborg part free? Although if Gero were clever he could make it so those parts can't be identified or seen or develop or grow larger later in life. Maybe she will be an android when she's older if she's not already.

User avatar
TheGreatness25
I Live Here
Posts: 3700
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:36 am

Re: Krillin and 18 relationship?!

Postby TheGreatness25 » Mon Sep 18, 2017 12:10 pm

If we're thinking logically -- murky waters for Dragon Ball -- Marron shouldn't have any cyborg in her. If a woman with prosthetic limbs has a child, that child would not have prosthetic legs. The fact that #18 can even have kids means that her reproductive system is human... Ugh geez, I just know that this analysis was way more thought than Akira Toriyama gave it.

What leads anyone to think that Marron has a weird development? She's only a few years old when we meet her. She's quiet, shy, but seems like a happy kid. Yeah, she's not like a Pan, flying around and looking to fight, but she's born to two parents who don't fight. Plus, she's not a Saiyan. When we see her as more of an adult, she's perfectly fine. Bra also doesn't really say anything when we see her in Z.

I don't know, I just have never heard any of that about Marron before. I mean, Funimation gave her a terrible voice, but that's about it.

As for Kurilin and #18, I don't get it. They're not related at all. How would Cell connect them?

Arugela
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 215
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2017 12:12 pm

Re: Krillin and 18 relationship?!

Postby Arugela » Mon Sep 18, 2017 9:51 pm

I'm assuming, given what gero makes, tha the can do more than give them prosthetics. I'm assuming he could do enough make it hide the ability to manipulate a fetus or whatnot. His other things are potentially more fantastic than this and you never know. If he treated the parts like a miniature factory or production line. He could with the given story hypothetically hide it so bulma or anyone else couldn't find it and it avoids their scans. Especially if he partially modified the uterus or thing is n the area. Maybe he can send nanites through the bloodstream when needed from another part and it's hard to detect the intended use.

I think I read someone say there was a line in gt or S where 18 says she's stronger than she appears hinting she might have stronger abilities. I think it was the episode where they leave the 3 kids on the 17's island. And I wasn't sure of 18's origins. I thought she might have been a test tube person and hence possibly using the same cells as cell potentially.

Maybe being the only human, "androids," they have an evil backup design where they can both produce latent androids with normal partners. Maybe it will pop up later if they go into pans and bullas life and marron is a villian on day for a bit. It would be like chiana's backstory in farscape where her species sent them out to spread a virus to wipe out the universe. They were both delinquints purposely chosen to spread their virus through, "physical," contact. Wink wink, nudge nudge. They were also a brother sister pair. If their stories are connected to anything from greek, roman, or eastern mythology it might give more background to them.

User avatar
TheGreatness25
I Live Here
Posts: 3700
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:36 am

Re: Krillin and 18 relationship?!

Postby TheGreatness25 » Tue Sep 19, 2017 12:24 am

Don't get me wrong, your theory is completely valid. However, I think that it's a little too deep for Dragon Ball. So far all we know is that #18 was a human, then became a cyborg, and then had a kid with Kurilin. Since Dragon Ball is not exactly the deepest and richest story you can dive into, I have a simple philosophy: if I didn't see it, it didn't happen. So far, all we're given is that Marron appears to be a normal little girl (later on not-so-little girl). So all of this is just speculation. Unless Super dives into it, I'm not assuming that Marron is anything more than a normal girl.

This actually doesn't just ring true for Dragon Ball, but all media in my opinion: I shouldn't have to seek out additional sources to tell me stuff that the story didn't. If I don't see it in the story presented before me, it simply doesn't exist.

Keeping it somewhat related to this topic, even things like Mr. Satan's name being Mark or #18's name being Lazuli don't exist to me. If that's real, it would be in the story. I understand that the god of Dragon World said it, but it never appears in the story. I only go by what's presented to me. Call it "narrow" or "unrefined" or "small-minded," but again, I don't need additional sources of information to communicate to me what the story needed to communicate to me. It's the story's job to get these messages across, and if it doesn't, then I don't accept them. Here's Super and Super is in current production, which means that it has the opportunity to take the outside stuff and put it in the actual story. There's no excuse not to, so if it doesn't, then to me it didn't happen. Here's a huge opportunity to have Mr. Satan's name be Mark. Go ahead. If they call him Mark there, then I'll gladly accept it. If not, then his name is Mr. Satan and "Mark" is just some outside-world mumbo jumbo. Come to think of it, since I don't follow Super, for all I know "Mark" was mentioned. I guess I'll have to see.

User avatar
KBABZ
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 491
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2017 9:38 pm

Re: Krillin and 18 relationship?!

Postby KBABZ » Tue Sep 19, 2017 12:43 am

TheGreatness25 wrote:Don't get me wrong, your theory is completely valid. However, I think that it's a little too deep for Dragon Ball.

This actually doesn't just ring true for Dragon Ball, but all media in my opinion: I shouldn't have to seek out additional sources to tell me stuff that the story didn't. If I don't see it in the story presented before me, it simply doesn't exist.

I can relate to this a lot. Having done a Timeline for Ratchet & Clank, I very much had to decide what was canon and what wasn't, especially considering how you have no idea who was writing things like instruction manuals and website bios. And at a certain point, even Word of God can't be taken fully seriously, because if it isn't in a published work then that gives the creator full license to go back on it and change it later if they want to.

I think the Kaios being born from trees very much falls into this; we've never seen it in action, so it can easily be replaced with something else if Toriyama has a change of heart.

User avatar
Whatever
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 328
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2017 10:03 pm

Re: Krillin and 18 relationship?!

Postby Whatever » Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:32 am

Cell does not have Krillin's DNA in him.
Cell is composed of cells from Goku, Piccolo, Vegeta, Frieza and King Cold.
Cell having Krillin and Gohan's cells is a dub thing only.
As for the rest,the others have already told you what needed to be told.


Return to “General Franchise Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: SqueakyBoots and 17 guests