DB - A Superhero Story?

[KBABZ]

Dragon Ball is missing a fair few tropes that are central to its story and characters that appear in most superhero stories. Having an alter-ego is one, but one of the others is that the heroes in a traditional superhero story go actively looking for crime, and/or dedicate their lives to it and fulfilling Justice. With the exception of the Great Saiyaman, pretty much no characters in Dragon Ball actually do this, and instead lead pretty much normal lives until trouble finds them (or the trouble is so large it's impossible for them to ignore, like Beerus or the Androids had Trunks not warned them). Most superhero stories tend to have a set formula with recurring villains and are set in mostly-singular locations like Gotham or New York, and the closest DB has to that are Kame House and the WMAT.

I think the idea that DBZ specifically is a superhero story holds a bit of shallow, face-level merit (mainly the whole "ki attacks look like superpowers" thing, the world is at stake, and most of the cast can fly), but it falls apart when you start doing a more thoughtful analysis to things like Batman or Iron Man. And when applied to Dragon Ball as a whole it has no merit whatsoever because it's much more overtly a martial arts adventure story for its first third.

[Lord Beerus]

What are the Pride Troopers?

Minor spoilers:
[spoiler]They are basically a team of superheroes who occupy Universe 11 and act that universe's equivalent of the Justice League. Stopping evil does, having speeches about heroes, freedom and justice, having a grand entrance every time they are out on duty, stopping evildoers and even doing shit like saving cats from tree.

But here's the twist.

Toppo, the leader of the Pride Troopers, has an insanely black and white morality to what constitutes as "good" and what constitutes as "evil". Toppo openly admits that he punishes all kinds of evil, small, normal or big, with the same kind of punishment...death. As we see in a later episode, we see that Toppo kills an evil doer while he gives one of those classic heroes speeches on how the Pride Troopers will keep the light of freedom shinning bright and that no evil will rise against the Pride Trooper and all that jazz. In fact, Toppo even proudly announces "Death to evildoers!" during a fight against Goku, while he is in the process of bear-hugging Goku to death. The issue becomes all the more grey when you take into consideration that the Pride Troopers, and Toppo specifically, are looked up upon by many in their universe, despite their somewhat extreme course of actions as "heroes".

The actions and statements of the Pride Troopers are quite Knight Templar-ish for a group that are basically considered the Justice League of Universe 11, that by some certain standards, you couldn't even call him or the rest of the Pride Troopers superheros in the traditional sense.[/spoiler]

Effectively its another take (albeit in a very Dragon Ball manner) on the idea of "superheroes deconstructed into analogues for fascism" popularized by Watchmen. A friend of mine noted that the Pride Troopers' costumes even have kind of a Green Lantern Corps.-esque vibe to them. Other than Saiyaman, its the only other time we've had "actual" superhero characters ever show up in Dragon Ball at any point. And unlike Saiyaman, this time they're treated much more seriously (albeit greatly subverted into being more villainous themselves).

I actually quite like the angle that they are going with the Pride Troopers. They are basically what would happen if the Great Saiyaman was a legitimate threat to the main cast and they their actions as "heroes" with are done with so much earnest, that it in turns make them less like the Justice League (how they perceive themselves to be in terms of heroism) and more like the Watchemen (how the audience perceive their morality with how they deal with evil and what constitutes as justice).

[ABED]

Would you say the Pride Troopers are more like the Justice Lords in the Justice League cartoon or Robot Santa in Futurama?

[precita]

No, the Pride Troopers are all good guys and none of them rule by authority. Whoever is saying elsewise is going in fanfiction territory or youtube comment sections too much.

[MR.Mark]

Dragon Ball is a martial arts story about self improvement following a gang of misfits. The lead is a simple but decent man that puts fighting and pushing his limits as his main goal. However he finds himself saving everyone/the world/ the universe sometimes in spite of his selfish decisions. However more often than not these characters acknowledge there flaws and when push comes to shove become unlikely heros of there universe. There is also a strong bond of family and enemies usually become friends along the way due to the adventure aspect of the series.

I only argued that there heros of sorts, not superheros. Martial artists that will also step up if they need to. That recent episode of Super summed it up pretty well. Goku loves a challenge and to fight strong guys, but he also can't stand the idea of animals or innocent people being hurt. Unconventional heros are still heros. They don't need to be going around like great Saiyaman to fit any sort of heroic mold. Some of you make it seem as if someone was being murdered or attacked near Goku, he wouldn't do anything because it's not a good fight. He is selfish, but he's a decent man that has some morals about killing etc.

Piccolo was pretty pissed off when Cell was going around killing all those innocent people. He and the others were racing around trying to prevent his perfect form, hardly seems like battle hungry morons that just want a good fight. Goku also put all his faith in Gohan and even gave up against Cell, he was counting on Gohan to win and save everyone, once again not just a good fight.

These characters are just living the life they want to live, but there extreme power has made them unlikely heros to stop the constant super power evil threats, whether they like it or not. At of the end of the day even Goku realizes he has people he needs to protect, like his granddaughter.

It may be unconventional, but the series still has had an underlining good vs evil theme.

In short, Dragon Ball is an action adventure story of man who strives to push his limits, but along the way has no choice but to step up and be a ulikely hero when his planet/ loved ones/ universe is threatened.

Is it a superhero story, ah yeah, most obviously not. Is it a story that prominently features super powered characters that defeat evil threats thereby being heros as a result? Yes.

[KBABZ]

Agreed with Mr. Mark. Something as early as Goku defending Upa and Bora from Tao Pai-Pai, or rushing off to Muscle Tower, shows that while he loves fighting, he has a heart of gold and will always do the right thing and protect those he cares about. He would have gone to Namek to gather those Dragon Balls were he in better condition before take-off, and he had no indication to go there for a good fight because nobody knew that at that point.

[Kunzait_83]

Mark's pretty much on point mostly.

I want to clarify something though: I don't think, nor have I ever said, that these characters aren't at all in ANY way heroic. Like I've said before, if push came to shove and there were innocent people in immediate danger around them, those people's safety would come first and foremost to them. Hell, the word "hero" constantly crops up even in most Wuxia fiction (Legend of the Condor Heroes, Chinese Hero, The Heroic Trio, and... well, just plain Hero for the title of one notable movie, to name but a small, tiny few examples among many), and not without good reason.

What I've been stressing for quite awhile now though, because so very many times in the past this has been often taken completely for granted, is that these are characters for whom while they may step up and be heroic if a dire situation presents itself, protecting people and the planet in and of itself is never something that acts as their main priority or motivator. Martial artists, like Mark said, can step up to the plate and be heroic when the time and opportunity calls for it, but ultimately their lives revolve around and are driven overwhelmingly by their training and desire to improve themselves beyond all else.

Sometimes, when the stakes seem fairly abstract (like in many instances during the Cell arc, as well as even at several times during Freeza, the early half of Boo, and even at points during the Saiya-jin arc, the 23rd Budokai, and all throughout), the fight and the challenge will take priority, because these characters don't see themselves as "saviors" or "protectors" and don't live their lives as such. But when innocent lives are clearly in immediate danger, then they'll certainly intervene to try and rescue and defend them.

In other words, these characters ARE heroes, but the definition of the word "hero" and what it entails to be one within the context of a Chinese-style martial arts fantasy like Dragon Ball carries a MUCH different meaning than it would in most Western superhero fiction. I don't at all mean to try and paint them as sociopaths, that's not at all where I've ever been coming from with any of this.

Just that they're being oftentimes viewed in U.S. fandom through a genre and cultural lens that they were never intended to be seen through, and the real nature of where this story is rooted stems from a very, very different type of "hero" from what a lot of Americans, particularly kids weaned mainly on Marvel and DC-style superheroes, are used to. And a lot of that difference is rooted in how the morality of these kinds of stories and character archetypes originate themselves so much in archaic medieval Chinese kung fu warriors' ideologies and philosophies about chivalry (hence the "Xia" part of Wuxia: Wu = martial arts and Xia = heroism or chivalry).

There's a whole section on the first page of the Wuxia thread where I delve fairly deeply into the details of the values system and moral compass of the Xia and the Wulin community of martial arts masters throughout most all Wuxia fiction (represented throughout Dragon Ball by Goku and pretty much all of the notable martial artists he meets). Such as how they regard trained fighters preying on and bullying non-martial artists/civilians as disgraceful and obscene (hence their continually coming to the defense of the weak), among plenty of other things. Read that if you're feeling so inclined for a more detailed exploration of all this.

He would have gone to Namek to gather those Dragon Balls were he in better condition before take-off, and he had no indication to go there for a good fight because nobody knew that at that point.

To be perfectly fair here, while he was originally going there mainly to just help the others gather up the Dragon Balls faster, once he's made aware of Freeza, his main priorities almost IMMEDIATELY shift to "Must find this guy and take him on for myself!", even as a powerful deity is warning him up, down, and sideways to steer clear of him because the consequences are FAR too risky.

Again, I'm not saying that Goku doesn't care at all about his friends, nor that there are innocent Namekians being slaughtered. He obviously does: but clearly, challenging Freeza (at first just for the great challenge itself, then later on for revenge) is something that's pretty heavily at the forefront of his thoughts and his drive to get to Namek ASAP.

[RandomGuy96]

Technically yes, since a superhero is just a benevolent character with superhuman powers or otherwise extraordinary abilities who fights supervillains. They don't actually have to be proactive to be a superhero (and the DB characters are actually usually proactive, just not in the way we usually think of superheroes as being). See Wolverine in his last film for example, who would very much just want to be left alone, but when push comes to shove will do his utmost to save innocent people suffering in front of him. On a less positive note, a lot of people complained about those old Fox Fantastic Four movies, since the heroes of that movie only ever defended themselves or solved cock-ups they caused rather than actively helping people, but those are still superhero movies.

But that's more of an argument about genre conventions than anything. The definition of "superhero" has never been particularly well-defined.

Would you say the Pride Troopers are more like the Justice Lords in the Justice League cartoon or Robot Santa in Futurama?

They're more like that minor team of strawman villains in that crappy Superman story with the really long title.

[KBABZ]

He would have gone to Namek to gather those Dragon Balls were he in better condition before take-off, and he had no indication to go there for a good fight because nobody knew that at that point.

To be perfectly fair here, while he was originally going there mainly to just help the others gather up the Dragon Balls faster, once he's made aware of Freeza, his main priorities almost IMMEDIATELY shift to "Must find this guy and take him on for myself!", even as a powerful deity is warning him up, down, and sideways to steer clear of him because the consequences are FAR too risky.

Again, I'm not saying that Goku doesn't care at all about his friends, nor that there are innocent Namekians being slaughtered. He obviously does: but clearly, challenging Freeza (at first just for the great challenge itself, then later on for revenge) is something that's pretty heavily at the forefront of his thoughts and his drive to get to Namek ASAP.

Yeah. It's just that the whole "gotta revive Yamcha and co." is overshadowed by the desire to take on Frieza. As another example, Goku never challenges Raditz for a good fight, he does so in order to rescue his son, and is mortified at the idea that Raditz suggests that he kill 100 earthlings to satiate him.

The rest of the post

I think it can be summed up in that a hero helps people, while a superhero actively fights bad guys as part their lifestyle (and without payment, which separates them from mercenary characters).

As well, while in typical superhero stories there's a clear divide between "normal life" and "superhero business" (aided by alter egos), in Dragon Ball the characters consider fighting bad guys (who happen to be stronger than they are, so they want to fight them, we rarely see this with good characters) are part of the same lifestyle. The characters were all just hanging out the moment before Raditz showed up. The hero aspects do get played up more for Goku in the Cell and Buu arcs, though.

[MR.Mark]

Again though, Goku gets excited all the time about big bads, at first, then when shit gets real it's usually back to a more heroic mindset. For instance, when Goku was in the healing tank, I don't recall one instance of him being excited to go fight Freeza. It was constant concern of the well being of the others and what was going on.

Yes, we've established there not superheros, but the other extreme that implys that every fight they got into in the series, that saving others or the world was some kind of bonus is simply not true.

[RandomGuy96]

Is Luke Cage a superhero? Most people (who know who he is) would say yes, in all likelihood. Yet in the comics he's mostly a mercenary ("Hero for Hire," though he does have scruples) while in his own TV series he just wants to be left alone and only fights the villains when he or his friends are directly threatened.

[MR.Mark]

Yeah, even superheros can be unconventional too, I'd consider Batman one. Yes he's a vigilante but I feel he has strong morals even though you can very well argue by not killing the Joker he's only caused more death and suffering.

Goku lets Freeza go because he wants a good fight, but even he realizes that there are limits and this guy is destroying the earth and killing your loved ones, it's time to think of the greater good, and he learned from that.

[Asura]

I think you could make an argument that it is indeed a Superhero story. Every single threat in Z has resulted in them trying to save the Earth from people who want to destroy it. Regardless of what their intentions are, they're still doing it. So yeah, I'd call them super heroes.

I'd say that Goku is a super hero, just not a conventional one.

[Duo]

They're similar in terms of a few genre terms, I suppose, but Dragon Ball is born of a completely different background than where Superhero stories come from. Dragon Ball doesn't maintain some of the more basic tropes of the Superhero genre, so I don't see them in the same light.

Kunzait and Mr. Mark had some great posts above. I highly recommend that great big Wuxia thread.

[ABED]

The problem I have with certain post is the insistence on believing that I don't think DB's characters are heroic. No matter how much I write otherwise, some claim that's exactly what I wrote and it's just not true. Time and time again, I've pointed to instances of the character's heroism. But that doesn't make them SUPERheroes. Saving the innocent from unspeakable evil is not their raison d'etre. They will save the world when they have to, but even then, they won't choose the most logical and expedient means of doing so. For instance, they fight one on one when teaming up would make more sense. They allow the bad guy free shots to make it fair, like when Goku allowed Piccolo to make up for Kami's interference in their match at the tournament. So yes, they are heroic, but not in the same way characters like Superman and Spider-Man are heroic.

Someone pointed to Logan and I do think he falls into the category of a reluctant hero. He still joined the X-Men for years. He doesn't actively let threats arise in order to get a better fight. In fact, he hates fighting and killing. Goku and co. love fighting.

I wouldn't classify Luke Cage as a mercenary any more than a I would a private investigator like Veronica Mars or Jessica Jones. PI is a legitimate profession. A mercenary isn't, and I would think in a world with superpowers, someone who helps people with problems that require superpowers in exchange for money is morally no different than a doctor giving his/her service in exchange for money. However, this is tangential. Fun, but probably beside the point.

[KBABZ]

They allow the bad guy free shots to make it fair, like when Goku allowed Piccolo to make up for Kami's interference in their match at the tournament.

I always figured Goku did that so that the match wouldn't be declared void due to outside interference or something.

[Lord Beerus]

Would you say the Pride Troopers are more like the Justice Lords in the Justice League cartoon or Robot Santa in Futurama?

I think they're more akin to Rorschach from Watchmen, in the fact that from their viewpoint, all crime or evil is equal to them and punishable with the same sentence of death.

[ABED]

They allow the bad guy free shots to make it fair, like when Goku allowed Piccolo to make up for Kami's interference in their match at the tournament.

I always figured Goku did that so that the match wouldn't be declared void due to outside interference or something.

More or less the same thing, but regardless, Goku was more interested in winning the tournament than saving the world. And just so everyone is clear, Goku does want to save the world, but it's not his primary concern in this match. If it was, then he wouldn't be desperately trying to stay within the confines of the tournament rules and not accept outside help.

[Kokonoe]

As others have stated it's not a Super Hero story in the general sense. I do think, however, that there is heroism involved being that the characters have moral values and want to rescue and save people from destruction such as wishing the planet back with the Dragon Balls or saving Namek and Namekians. You could akin them really to fighters who defend their territory and people in need when they come in contact, but they aren't actively patrolling because they aren't, well, super heroes. They are fighters with morals and a competitive spirit.

[SmugStick]

It’s not adherently a traditional super hero story. That being said, they are superheroes. Not all superheroes go out of their way to find problems to solve, some just stumble upon a problem and solve it, which is what our Dragon Fighterz do. The X-men a lot of times, for example, just life peacefully until something threatens them or earth.