Do you still hate Dragonball GT?

[TheGreatness25]

I always liked the idea of GT. My first exposure to GT was in the late 90s way before I saw it. I was just a kid who was obsessed with Dragon Ball Z and would have bought anything with the name. A kid in school had the first release of the English Final Bout game and we went through that booklet with oohs and ahhs, amazed at how Freeza and Gohan looked (more than anything). Then, I read the summary for GT, which sounded pretty cool and way different. I did see clips here and there online, which I geeked out for and felt almost special for having seen them when the majority of my peers hadn't. I wasn't interested when it aired in the U.S., though (2003 or so?) I found it dull and boring, but not really because of the content, as weird as that sounds. That awful music and everything felt so monotone and boring. It wasn't until a couple of years later that I got the DVDs and watched it in Japanese and English.

GT wasn't a bad series to me. I feel like it gets a lot of hate just based on the fact that we all know that it was hated. I didn't know how terribly hated GT was until the early 2000s, way after I found out about the series and would see clips and summaries of it.

I think there was a lot of room for improvement, but I never despised the series. I will say, though, that if I describe it to someone, it will sound cool, but if you watch it, it might not. I believe GT was always something where the concept sounded way better than the execution.

But to me, Super is the opposite. I've seen Super here and there and it looks pretty cool. Looks like I can get into it. But everything I read about Super makes me just want to not even bother with it. When I hear a summary of something that happens in Super, it just sounds like an 11 year old came up with it. But then I scan through an episode on Funimation Now and think, "Hm, looks kind of cool."

So in my mind, GT and Super are totally opposites -- one was a great idea with poor execution and the other is a poor idea with great execution.

[Kokonoe]

I'll admit that I still do to this day. It simply didn't live up to the previous series and repeated things that shouldn't have been like Vegeta being the enemy, Piccolo sacrificing himself for Gohan, and at times it really does feel fanfictiony and embarrassing. The major plot points for the series don't add up regarding the Dragon Balls and are kinda just forced into having a reason to continue the plot. Battle of the Gods does something similar in a different way by introducing another hierarchy of gods that wouldn't have been a mystery given the circumstances of Z, but is kinda forced just like GT's plot to make more content.

And...I guess it's fine to a degree because this is the price of "more", but I feel like the show is just rather incomplete like some of the Movies tend to be and honestly works better in the journeying episodes than it did in a lot of the serious moments.

[ABED]

Vegeta being the enemy, Piccolo sacrificing himself for Gohan

Vegeta wasn't the enemy. In fact, once Baby fully takes over Vegeta, he's not remotely recognizable as Vegeta. Sometimes the drama came from wanting to destroy Baby without hurting Vegeta. And Piccolo didn't give his life to save just Gohan this time.

[Cetra]

I'll admit that I still do to this day. It simply didn't live up to the previous series and repeated things that shouldn't have been like Vegeta being the enemy, Piccolo sacrificing himself for Gohan, and at times it really does feel fanfictiony and embarrassing. The major plot points for the series don't add up regarding the Dragon Balls and are kinda just forced into having a reason to continue the plot. Battle of the Gods does something similar in a different way by introducing another hierarchy of gods that wouldn't have been a mystery given the circumstances of Z, but is kinda forced just like GT's plot to make more content.

And...I guess it's fine to a degree because this is the price of "more", but I feel like the show is just rather incomplete like some of the Movies tend to be and honestly works better in the journeying episodes than it did in a lot of the serious moments.

Aren't we glad that Vegeta is not just the enemy but his body is used as a host.

Just like Zamasu does with the only difference of exchanging bodies.

Or just like Piccolo is still just some tool for the plot that is "somewhat" used instead of something that seems really and absolutely necessary. At least he did not have a really unnecessary death ... wait.

You know what I am saying with this. It is not some very fair treatment.

[ekrolo2]

Vegeta isn't the enemy, he gets taken over against his will and it's very much a proto Goku Black type situation where the guy who hates a certain people, in this case Baby hating the Saiyan's, needs the Saiyan princes power to achieve victory. Majin Vegeta isn't very comperable because Vegeta chose to become a thrall to power himself up then he almost immediately broke through it to keep the power without becoming a puppet.

Majin Vegeta is Vegeta choosing and staying an asshole, Baby Vegeta is him legitimately being turned against the others for once against his will.

Piccolo dies to destroy the Black Star Dragon Balls, I don't know how anyone can think he dies for Gohan again, the entire mess with Baby and the subsequent Super 17 & Shadowo Dragon business happens because the Black Star DBs were active, Piccolo chooses to die so more BS doesn't spin out of his old mistakes, even if it's obviously too little to late. Piccolo dying also helps Goku out later on to escape Hell, which he probably wouldn't have pulled off without Piccolo around. This is probably one of the few instances where Piccolo gets to be plot relevant after the Saiyan arc in an actual capacity.

[PsionicWarrior]

But everything I read about Super makes me just want to not even bother with it. When I hear a summary of something that happens in Super, it just sounds like an 11 year old came up with it. But then I scan through an episode on Funimation Now and think, "Hm, looks kind of cool."

Maybe stop reading stuff about Super and start watching instead?
I'd personally recommend to watch Battle of Gods and Resurrection F movies instead of the firsts then directly go on with U6.

[KBABZ]

Baby Vegeta is him legitimately being turned against the others for once against his will.

This exactly. The villain of the Baby arc is Baby, not Vegeta, since Baby is controlling Vegeta and the real Vegeta isn't there. That's kind of expressed throughout Baby's various forms as it becomes more and more grotesque and un-like Vegeta to the point where there's no connection anymore.

[lancerman]

Baby Vegeta is him legitimately being turned against the others for once against his will.

This exactly. The villain of the Baby arc is Baby, not Vegeta, since Baby is controlling Vegeta and the real Vegeta isn't there. That's kind of expressed throughout Baby's various forms as it becomes more and more grotesque and un-like Vegeta to the point where there's no connection anymore.

The thing was, Baby infecting Vegeta and that being the main villain was sort of done to capitalize on the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry and to revisit it.

[ABED]

How? He looks nothing like Vegeta.

[lancerman]

How? He looks nothing like Vegeta.

Because it was Vegeta. It was Baby playing Prince Vegeta on planet Vegeta, with Vegeta's wife, using most of Vegeta's attacks and using Vegeta's Saiyan traits to fight Vegeta's rival. I mean it's not like SSJ4 Goku looked a hell of a lot like Goku either.

Did you notice that Baby Vegeta's final form looked like a "nu" version of Vegeta's armor from the original Saiyan saga fight? One piece blue/navy blue suit, white chest section, yellow shoulder armor, big gloves and boots, red techy looking strips going down by the eyes that give off a similar impression to scouters. There's definitley an attempt to go for the nostalgia there, even if it has a new twist and it's really Baby.

[TheGreatness25]

But everything I read about Super makes me just want to not even bother with it. When I hear a summary of something that happens in Super, it just sounds like an 11 year old came up with it. But then I scan through an episode on Funimation Now and think, "Hm, looks kind of cool."

Maybe stop reading stuff about Super and start watching instead?
I'd personally recommend to watch Battle of Gods and Resurrection F movies instead of the firsts then directly go on with U6.

No interest, really. It's not like I go out and look for summaries, but sometimes stuff gets posted on here or other places that I can't help but see and every time I read someone posting about Super makes me just not even want to bother.

[KBABZ]

Did you notice that Baby Vegeta's final form looked like a "nu" version of Vegeta's armor from the original Saiyan saga fight? One piece blue/navy blue suit, white chest section, yellow shoulder armor, big gloves and boots, red techy looking strips going down by the eyes that give off a similar impression to scouters. There's definitley an attempt to go for the nostalgia there, even if it has a new twist and it's really Baby.

I'd argue that he looks more like Namek Vegeta due to the lack of tassets (the thigh armour coming from the waist).

It's funny how Vegeta gradually gets less and less armour over the course of the series, until he's basically fighting in a onesie.

[shadowmaria]

I've always adored Dragon Ball GT (to the point where I'm working on a video project about GT that I've been thinking about for a very, very long time)

To quote myself from said video; "most of the issues present are a result of poor execution of great ideas"

One of the things I love about Dragon Ball Super actually, is Super's ability to rectify certain aspects of GT that people hated;

Why can Gohan turn Super Saiyan when he has Ultimate? Because he got weaker from lack of training, and Ultimate was eventually revealed to be a transformation of sorts.

How does Trunks know what #17 looks like when #17 and Kid Trunks never met? Because they actually did, on #17's island

Someone explain to me why Pan and Goku seem to have a better relationship than most? Episode 43 of Super sums this up for me pretty damn well

Currently, the only non-handwaveable or explained anomoly between Super and GT is Kibito Kai vs Shin and Kibito's existence. Pilaf Gang's age can be handwaved, just like it was in Super. Goku's child body couldn't handle SS3, let alone God or Blue. Vegeta's pride got in the way of using Blue then, and preferred to stick with SS2 OR they can't access God ki anymore? We don't know how Super will end, so we can't say for sure. How does Vegeta know the Fusion Dance - hmm, it's because he watched Goten and Trunks use it on Planet Poutefeu (or Wrath of the Dragon and Yo! Son Goku and His Friends Return, depending on if you place these two films in the timeline as well). Why does the 14 year old Pan still act like a 9 year old? Because she's actually 9 years old, and FUNimation stuffed up.

[sintzu]

Why can Gohan turn Super Saiyan when he has Ultimate ?

How does Trunks know what #17 looks like when #17 and Kid Trunks never met ?

Someone explain to me why Pan and Goku seem to have a better relationship than most ?

Vegeta's pride got in the way of using Blue and preferred to stick with SS2 OR they can't access God ki anymore ?

How does Vegeta know the Fusion Dance ?

Most assumed he didn't train based on how he started out in the Buu arc.

We didn't need Super to tell us they could've met somewhere off screen during those years.

We saw how close they were in EOZ.

This is where all the issues come up so GT and Super can't work together unless they lose the forms somehow. Another issue is Golden Freeza not being a thing in GT so does he lose the golden form as well ? GT up till the end of the Baby arc can work with Super cause Vegeta wouldn't use Blue against Gohan nor would Gohan use Mystic against Goten and Freeza didn't show up till later but everything falls apart afterwords.

He knew about it in the Buu arc while watching Gotenks form the afterlife.

[ABED]

How? He looks nothing like Vegeta.

Because it was Vegeta. It was Baby playing Prince Vegeta on planet Vegeta, with Vegeta's wife, using most of Vegeta's attacks and using Vegeta's Saiyan traits to fight Vegeta's rival. I mean it's not like SSJ4 Goku looked a hell of a lot like Goku either.

Did you notice that Baby Vegeta's final form looked like a "nu" version of Vegeta's armor from the original Saiyan saga fight? One piece blue/navy blue suit, white chest section, yellow shoulder armor, big gloves and boots, red techy looking strips going down by the eyes that give off a similar impression to scouters. There's definitley an attempt to go for the nostalgia there, even if it has a new twist and it's really Baby.

No, it wasn't. He wasn't Vegeta. he wasn't playing anyone. You are verifiably wrong. He wasn't playing Vegeta. He was Baby (he called himself Baby, his followers called him Baby, and he speaks using HIS voice, not Vegeta's) who was using Vegeta's body that looked so little like Vegeta. SS4 Goku looks more like Goku than Baby looked like Vegeta. He was a parasite, so while he used Vegeta's abilities, he also had his own, like the Revenge Death Ball. He wasn't fighting Goku for the same reasons Vegeta did.

I think I see what you're talking about. His hair is spikey - they look exactly alike.

[Cetra]

How? He looks nothing like Vegeta.

Because it was Vegeta. It was Baby playing Prince Vegeta on planet Vegeta, with Vegeta's wife, using most of Vegeta's attacks and using Vegeta's Saiyan traits to fight Vegeta's rival. I mean it's not like SSJ4 Goku looked a hell of a lot like Goku either.

Did you notice that Baby Vegeta's final form looked like a "nu" version of Vegeta's armor from the original Saiyan saga fight? One piece blue/navy blue suit, white chest section, yellow shoulder armor, big gloves and boots, red techy looking strips going down by the eyes that give off a similar impression to scouters. There's definitley an attempt to go for the nostalgia there, even if it has a new twist and it's really Baby.

It was not Vegeta. You are not a person by playing that person or looking like that person. Baby is his own person. He has his own consciousness. He is not Vegeta. That is a psychological fact.

[BrolyKale]

Its like saying Goku Black is Goku when they are not.

[shadowmaria]

This is where all the issues come up so GT and Super can't work together unless they lose the forms somehow. Another issue is Golden Freeza not being a thing in GT so does he lose the golden form as well ? GT up till the end of the Baby arc can work with Super cause Vegeta wouldn't use Blue against Gohan nor would Gohan use Mystic against Goten and Freeza didn't show up till later but everything falls apart afterwords.

He knew about it in the Buu arc while watching Gotenks form the afterlife.

Not here to have a debate, but I'll respond to you.

Frieza has shown he doesn't use Golden Frieza in every battle. Can be handwaved that he felt cocky teaming with Perfect Cell

Vegeta didn't watch Gotenks in the after life. If he did, there's no evidence of it to my understanding.

[Grimlock]

Vegeta didn't watch Gotenks in the after life.

Yes, he saw it.

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Never hated it tbh. It does have a lot of crappy stuff, but so does Super. It's not a bad show IMO.