The Problem with Gohan

[kemuri07]

It's a bit of a click bait title, but it dawned on me what the fundamental problem with Gohan in the Cell arc was - he's too passive. While we can sit around and argue in circles whether Gohan was in character or not by trying before fighting Cell, the thing that has come to bother me most is how passive he is the entire arc. He's in the periphery for the bulk of the arc. He's constantly being told what to do. Nothing is his idea to the very end. Gohan doesn't choose anything. It's Goku who has to convince him to not give up and tell him when to fire the killing shot at Cell. I think that point is inarguable. Whether you are fine with him being passive is your prerogative.

urrrm....isn't that kind of the point?

His character development throughout the entirety of DBZ is that he goes from a passive to an active character.

And to be fair....Gohan was staring down a super-powered Cell about to obliterate the entire planet--with a broken arm. I kind of don't blame the kid for needing a little bit more encouragement.

[ABED]

It's a bit of a click bait title, but it dawned on me what the fundamental problem with Gohan in the Cell arc was - he's too passive. While we can sit around and argue in circles whether Gohan was in character or not by trying before fighting Cell, the thing that has come to bother me most is how passive he is the entire arc. He's in the periphery for the bulk of the arc. He's constantly being told what to do. Nothing is his idea to the very end. Gohan doesn't choose anything. It's Goku who has to convince him to not give up and tell him when to fire the killing shot at Cell. I think that point is inarguable. Whether you are fine with him being passive is your prerogative.

urrrm....isn't that kind of the point?

His character development throughout the entirety of DBZ is that he goes from a passive to an active character.

And to be fair....Gohan was staring down a super-powered Cell about to obliterate the entire planet--with a broken arm. I kind of don't blame the kid for needing a little bit more encouragement.

He goes from passive to active in the span of an arc. He's passive when we first meet him, but finds his courage and goes back to help his father by the end.

And it's a story, so while it's understandable that he might need encouragement, do you really like your central protagonists to be told what to do every step of the way?

[TheUltimateVegito]

I do when that's all he does for the entirety of the story. If all he does is react and do what he's told, you've picked the wrong protagonist.

By the end of the Cell Games Gohan developed

How do you know? We weren't shown that. We saw at the end of the arc that he had to be told what to do and when to do it. His development wasn't dramatized. Gohan is physically capable, but not mentally. I don't ask that Gohan be the fighter Goku is. I ask for him to be active.

the story is still about saving the world.

Not really. They put the world in jeopardy almost as much as they save it. It's about improvement. The heroes are constantly striving to become better. That's their fundamental goal. I'm not sure what Gohan's is.

I think you're really exaggerating the whole Gohan being told what to do angle. Remember when Gohan went with Trunks to examine the second time machine? Gohan went there on his own accord not because he was told, he even some figured things out for himself and found Cell's shell (No pun intended) himself. When Gohan saved Piccolo it wasn't only because Piccolo told him to save him it was because his senses were sharp enough to save Piccolo in time. When Goku fought 19 it was Gohan who figured out Goku's being affected by the heart disease before anyone else. Gohan's mental flaws that were highlighted during the Cell Games were developed to the point that they're no longer a part of his character by the end of the Cell Games. Gohan said it himself that he's happy that Cell returned so that he can make up for his arrogance during the fight by killing Cell himself, meaning he wants to kill big bads quickly after that experience instead of prolonging the fights again. Gohan didn't give up fighting by the end of the Cell Games, his fighting spirit was better than ever because he won't make the same mistake that made him give up. All of this considered Gohan was shown to be quite capable of defending earth.

Yes their goal is to become better but that didn't change how much they wanted the earth to be safe.

[ABED]

Yes, there are a few small moments where Gohan does things of his own accord, and I think it would've been far better for GOhan and the Cell arc had we gotten more, but I think you are exaggerating how much he did and what impact he had on the story.

they're no longer a part of his character by the end of the Cell Games.

Like when? Gohan was ready to give up. Goku had to convince him not to. Yes, when Cell first came back, Gohan was ready to fight, but when his arm was shattered, he was going to give up without a fight. After Gohan getting his arm wrecked would've been the right time to show Gohan's progression, but no, he needs his hand held. Not a great quality in your central hero.

[TheUltimateVegito]

Yes, there are a few small moments where Gohan does things of his own accord, and I think it would've been far better for GOhan and the Cell arc had we gotten more, but I think you are exaggerating how much he did and what impact he had on the story.

they're no longer a part of his character by the end of the Cell Games.

Like when? Gohan was ready to give up. Goku had to convince him not to. Yes, when Cell first came back, Gohan was ready to fight, but when his arm was shattered, he was going to give up without a fight. After Gohan getting his arm wrecked would've been the right time to show Gohan's progression, but no, he needs his hand held. Not a great quality in your central hero.

I think Gohan got enough, especially with the whole build up in the RoSAT with Goku saying he's aiming for Gohan to be stronger than him.

It's because Cell was stronger than Gohan thought and the guilt he had was too much for him, but when Goku talked to Gohan his guilt was gone and he was able to fight again. He wouldn't give up like this again because the reason his guilt was too much for him was the fact that causing his father's death led to it. Pretty good progression there if you ask me.

[ABED]

I think Gohan got enough, especially with the whole build up in the RoSAT with Goku saying he's aiming for Gohan to be stronger than him.

And yet another instance where Goku is the active character and Gohan is passive. Goku is the one making the decisions.

He wouldn't give up like this again because the reason his guilt was too much for him was the fact that causing his father's death led to it. Pretty good progression there if you ask me.

There's no progression. We don't see that demonstrated at all.

[kemuri07]

Yes, there are a few small moments where Gohan does things of his own accord, and I think it would've been far better for GOhan and the Cell arc had we gotten more, but I think you are exaggerating how much he did and what impact he had on the story.

they're no longer a part of his character by the end of the Cell Games.

Like when? Gohan was ready to give up. Goku had to convince him not to. Yes, when Cell first came back, Gohan was ready to fight, but when his arm was shattered, he was going to give up without a fight. After Gohan getting his arm wrecked would've been the right time to show Gohan's progression, but no, he needs his hand held. Not a great quality in your central hero.

So the right time to show Gohan progression wasn't when. he turned SSJ2 and proceeded to beat the pants out of Cell?

What?

Let me make this point: Gohan and Goku are two completely different characters. Goku is a happy-go-lucky idiot who happens to be extremely powerul. He has no self-awareness therefore he never really doubts himself. Gohan, on the other hand has always been aware of his weakness and failings, which always kept him from reaching his true potential. That has always been Gohan's character flaw. So I absolutely buy that said flaw rears its ugly head when he's facing down complete and utter destruction with a broken arm.

[ABED]

The right time to show his progression is during the climax! You don't do it after the fact, it's anti-climactic.

And I know he's different. Every point you make I've made. Understanding that doesn't mean I want to make him a Goku clone. It means Gohan's internal conflict should be resolved as he's trying to solve his external conflict.

[TheUltimateVegito]

I think Gohan got enough, especially with the whole build up in the RoSAT with Goku saying he's aiming for Gohan to be stronger than him.

And yet another instance where Goku is the active character and Gohan is passive. Goku is the one making the decisions.

He wouldn't give up like this again because the reason his guilt was too much for him was the fact that causing his father's death led to it. Pretty good progression there if you ask me.

There's no progression. We don't see that demonstrated at all.

Come on, Goku was passive too for a good deal of the arc when he had the heart virus. Gohan I feel did enough things especially considering how he was built up in the previous sagas. Not everyone needs constant build up. I mean, the examples of Gohan not being just a errand boy is enough involvement for him I'd say, he did have his moment to shine in the Cell Games after all which was the appropriate time for him.

He did fought back against Cell with a Kamehameha, after being in peace with his Father's death. Isn't that a demonstration?

[ABED]

He did fought back against Cell with a Kamehameha, after being in peace with his Father's death. Isn't that a demonstration?
He has to be told to not give up by his father, to not hold back when he's trying not to wreck the Earth, and when to deliver the final blow. That's not a demonstration of Gohan becoming an active character. It's him taking orders.

Goku was passive too for a good deal of the arc when he had the heart virus. Gohan I feel did enough things especially considering how he was built up in the previous sagas. Not everyone needs constant build up. I mean, the examples of Gohan not being just a errand boy is enough involvement for him I'd say, he did have his moment to shine in the Cell Games after all which was the appropriate time for him.

He was taken out of action, but he was active before then, and he's an active character after he wakes up. It's his choice that instigates the arc to begin with, it was his idea to train in the Room of Spirit and Time. It was his idea of how to as a Super Saiyan. It was his idea to put Gohan up against Cell and it was him telling Gohan what to do pretty much every step of the way.

Gohan does VERY little in the 70+ episodes of the Cell arc. It's not about build up, it's about agency. What are his goals and what does he do to achieve them? If the Cell arc is Gohan's moment to shine, he doesn't do it very well.