Should Dragon Ball move forward from the "Goku Saga"? If yes, what new DB stories would you like to see?

[Kakarotto92]

Star Wars is currently moving forward from the "Skywalker Saga" with not only TFA and TLJ, but also Rogue One, the upcoming Han Solo movie, the SW Rebels cg cartoon, the upcoming Rian Johnson spin off trilogy, Jon Favreau's announced spin-off TV Series and probably something else I'm missing.

Naruto has moved forward from the Sasuke Naruto Saga with Boruto along with a whole new generation of shinobi taking over the future of the franchise. At one point Saint Seiya was also doing this with the likes of SS: Omega, the LC OVAs, the "Soul of Gold" ONAs and the upcoming "Saintia Sho". The whole Jojo's bizarre adventure manga has been doing this from the beginning, with almost every new arc having a different protagonist and happening in a different point in history. Then there's Digimon, Fate/stay Night or the Yu-Gi-Oh! franchises, whose multiple spinoff series ended up almost as popular as the original shows which they spanned from.

With this said, has it finally come the time for Dragon Ball to also move forward from the "Goku Saga" and give fans brand new stories not related to this character and whatever happens around him? Now don't get me wrong, Goku will always be not only my favorite DB character but one of my favorite anime protagonists of all time. Hell I'd totally be up for a big final "Goku arc" happening following his departure with Uub (which is exactly what Super should've been in the first place), but I'd be lying if I said that was at the top of my "list of new DB content I wish/can't wait to see".

Let's be honest here, there's only so many power ups a protagonist can get, and Goku already had more than his fair share throughout the two first series. Then along came BoG/RoF/Super and it added at least more FIVE huge power ups on top of the already insane power creep we had at the end of the Buu arc (and this is coming from someone who liked Super). Again even if I would enjoy seeing one final arc following EoZ, I think it's fair to say Goku's story has been completed. We've followed him in his journey since the early days when he was a 11 year old monkey boy living alone in the mountains until he grew up to become the man who saved the whole universe by defeating the most dangerous and powerful creature ever heard of until that point (Buu).

I don't mind sequels, but when it comes to new content, I've always thought that Dragon Ball could be much more than just Goku, Vegeta and the Present era in which they live.

So, with Super's ending in the last month and Toei hinting that "Dragon Ball is not over", we'll definitely be going to hear some big announcements soon (most likely right after the movie release, just like when Super was announced a few days after RoF's release).

Knowing modern Toei/Toriyama/Shueisha, most people (me included) are expecting yet another DBZ sequel with Goku as a protagonist (be it through a continuation to where Super left off or as a continuation to EoZ in the vein of GT).

But if you could choose, wouldn't you rather have a prequel or a spin-off series telling new or "unknown" Dragon Ball stories not related to Goku - be it a "Dragon Ball Anthology"/"Dragon Ball Origins" kind of deal (going into the lore/worldbuilding of the Dragon World and the backstories of well known characters/events, through prequels, side-stories, OVA series, much like the Bardock and Trunks specials) or even a "New Generation" series (either right after EoZ with Goten, Trunks, Uub, Pan, Bra, etc, or a "DB Future" series based on DB Online, with brand new characters/main cast)? If yes, what Dragon Ball prequel/spin-off stories would you like to see?

[sintzu]

Boruto is a borefest with little to nothing going on in its plot while star wars is an SJW mess that has somehow managed to split the fanbase even more than the prequels did so if those are what DB will be without Goku then no thank you. I don't mind different kinds of stories like the ones you mentioned but not as the main one, maybe as OVAs, TV Specials or even limited 12 episode shows. They can do whatever they want as long as they keep the main story revolving around Goku and his friends.

[Forte224]

No, I don't think it should move past this so-called "Goku Saga". I don't think Star Wars should've moved past the so-called "Skywalker Saga" either (aka I don't feel like they should've made any more movies). I'm not a huge Star Wars guy, but in this case, I feel like Dragon Ball and Star Wars hold something in common. Goku is Dragon Ball and the Skywalker family is Star Wars. People like to imagine that both universes have limitless potential, but in reality, they both are much better as smaller, contained stories despite their illusion of taking place in a gigantic universe (or universes). They don't have the capability or depth to go farther out than that without either just being a carbon copy of what came before, or completely losing the feel of the franchise altogether. Nothing can keep living when you remove its heart, these 2 franchises included. From a quality standpoint anyway.

[sintzu]

No, I don't think it should move past this so-called "Goku Saga". I don't think Star Wars should've moved past the so-called "Skywalker Saga" either (aka I don't feel like they should've made any more movies). I'm not a huge Star Wars guy, but in this case, I feel like Dragon Ball and Star Wars hold something in common. Goku is Dragon Ball and the Skywalker family is Star Wars. People like to imagine that both universes have limitless potential, but in reality, they both are much better as smaller, contained stories despite their illusion of taking place in a gigantic universe (or universes). They don't have the capability or depth to go farther out than that without either just being a carbon copy of what came before, or completely losing the feel of the franchise altogether. Nothing can keep living when you remove its heart, these 2 franchises included. From a quality standpoint anyway.

I don't think Toriyama is going to write DB forever so he most likely has an endgame in mind for the story, a true satisfying ending. What Toei does after is another story as there's no way they'll let the franchise just die again.

[ABED]

No, I don't think it should move past this so-called "Goku Saga". I don't think Star Wars should've moved past the so-called "Skywalker Saga" either (aka I don't feel like they should've made any more movies). I'm not a huge Star Wars guy, but in this case, I feel like Dragon Ball and Star Wars hold something in common. Goku is Dragon Ball and the Skywalker family is Star Wars. People like to imagine that both universes have limitless potential, but in reality, they both are much better as smaller, contained stories despite their illusion of taking place in a gigantic universe (or universes). They don't have the capability or depth to go farther out than that without either just being a carbon copy of what came before, or completely losing the feel of the franchise altogether. Nothing can keep living when you remove its heart, these 2 franchises included. From a quality standpoint anyway.

I'm inclined to agree, but Star Wars is also a story about a war in space and there are other places and characters to explore beyond just the Skywalkers. DB is a story about one man and his journey of self improvement. I liked The Last Jedi a lot, so I'm willing to see what Johnson does with his own trilogy and whether it feels like Star Wars without the Skywalkers. DB on the other hand took Goku out of the lead role and the story suffered. Not only that, the feel of DB is so intrinsically tied with Goku that no other character feels right as the lead. I also don't like "new generation" stories.

The Last Jedi split the audience because Star Wars fans feel they own the story. There's an unhealthy sense of entitlement there and because someone took a chance and went in different directions than what they wanted, they felt a betrayal. Also, I think people don't have a sense of perspective and forget that The Empire Strikes Back wasn't universally loved in part because it was so different from Star Wars. If this and any franchise is to remain vital, it has to take risks with the story.

I think Star Wars has plenty of gas left in the tank, whereas I'd like DB to have a definitive ending like it once did.

[sintzu]

I'd like DB to have a definitive ending like it once did.

Its original ending was a bit out of nowhere and very open ended so it wasn't really definitive. I do think we'll get that definitive ending once Toriyama reached the conclusion of whatever he has planned.

What I mean by open isn't Goku going with Uub or everyone being alive at the end but the fact that it never told us if there was anything else out there for Goku to overcome. I'm hoping Toriyama's new stories will show that there's truly nothing more out there for him to look for and that training someone like Uub is the only way he'll get a good fight again (Yeah there's Vegeta but how many times can you fight the same person before it gets old ?).

[Forte224]

No, I don't think it should move past this so-called "Goku Saga". I don't think Star Wars should've moved past the so-called "Skywalker Saga" either (aka I don't feel like they should've made any more movies). I'm not a huge Star Wars guy, but in this case, I feel like Dragon Ball and Star Wars hold something in common. Goku is Dragon Ball and the Skywalker family is Star Wars. People like to imagine that both universes have limitless potential, but in reality, they both are much better as smaller, contained stories despite their illusion of taking place in a gigantic universe (or universes). They don't have the capability or depth to go farther out than that without either just being a carbon copy of what came before, or completely losing the feel of the franchise altogether. Nothing can keep living when you remove its heart, these 2 franchises included. From a quality standpoint anyway.

I don't think Toriyama is going to write DB forever so he most likely has an endgame in mind for the story, a true satisfying ending. What Toei does after is another story as there's no way they'll let the franchise just die again.

Well sure but then it just becomes Star Wars. Unnecessary, forced fan service. Super already kind of is that.

I'm inclined to agree, but Star Wars is also a story about a war in space and there are other places and characters to explore beyond just the Skywalkers. DB is a story about one man and his journey of self improvement. I liked The Last Jedi a lot, so I'm willing to see what Johnson does with his own trilogy and whether it feels like Star Wars without the Skywalkers. DB on the other hand took Goku out of the lead role and the story suffered. Not only that, the feel of DB is so intrinsically tied with Goku that no other character feels right as the lead.

The Last Jedi split the audience because Star Wars fans feel they own the story. There's an unhealthy sense of entitlement there and because someone took a chance and went in different directions than what they wanted, they felt a betrayal. Also, I think people don't have a sense of perspective and forget that The Empire Strikes Back wasn't universally loved in part because it was so different from Star Wars. If this and any franchise is to remain vital, it has to take risks with the story.

I think Star Wars can keep going. I'd like DB to have a definitive ending like it once did.

I don't mean to start a debate or go off topic here, but I still have no idea how someone can like The Last Jedi as a movie. Maybe if it hits just the right amount of fan service for just the right fan sure, but as a movie it's a total mess that doesn't seem to know what it wants to be. And, keep in mind, this is from someone who isn't a huge Star Wars fan. I could care less about what they did with Luke and such, but as a movie it was very poorly made.

Uh, back on topic. Dragon Ball! Goku! Hoorah!

[ABED]

I'd like DB to have a definitive ending like it once did.

Its original ending was a bit out of nowhere and very open ended so it wasn't really definitive. I do think we'll get that definitive ending once Toriyama reached the conclusion of whatever he has planned.

What I mean by open isn't Goku going with Uub or everyone being alive at the end but the fact that it never told us if there was anything else out there for Goku to overcome. I'm hoping Toriyama's new stories will show that there's truly nothing more out there for him to look for and that training someone like Uub is the only way he'll get a good fight again (Yeah there's Vegeta but how many times can you fight the same person before it gets old ?).

I don't know how it was out of nowhere, but a definitive ending just means the loose threads are tied up. Clearly Goku is alive and can go on more adventures, but we don't to see it for us to feel closure. We know what we need to know. Goku will train to get stronger, and he'll train Uub in order have the ultimate battle with someone powerful but doesn't have the homicidal tendencies of Majin Buu.

I disagree. Episode 7 was fanservicy. Episode 8 did what a good story should do, go in new directions even at risk of upsetting the audience because it was where the story had to go. I think TLJ knew exactly what it wanted to be. It's a story about the rekindling of hope.

[Forte224]

I assume that last paragraph was to me, ABED? Oh sure, going in new directions is a good thing, but the mere act of going in new directions and subverting expectations doesn't automatically mean quality entertainment. I'm happy TLJ tried to do something new instead of living off of past success, but it totally failed from a movie standpoint.

[ToshioWrites]

No dragonball should end with the DBO ending of goku and vegeta fucking off into space and fighting each other, thats the perfect ending.

Do you really want to see a story about some other saiyan achieving all these forms we've seen before and attempting to surpass destroyers, angels, etc? I personally don't care for that.

[ABED]

I assume that last paragraph was to me, ABED? Oh sure, going in new directions is a good thing, but the mere act of going in new directions and subverting expectations doesn't automatically mean quality entertainment. I'm happy TLJ tried to do something new instead of living off of past success, but it totally failed from a movie standpoint.

You and I disagree on that last point, but I'm not going to try and convince you otherwise. It would be fruintless and beside the point.

I know many want to see better world building or more of the DB universe, but world building doesn't interest me and to a good extent, I don't think most people care about it either. They want good stories, so things like multiverse and more gods and hierarchy isn't something I would like to see. I just want there to be a point to it all. If DB is at its core a story about Goku's continual journey of bettering himself as a warrior, there should be a payoff to that.

[sintzu]

Do you really want to see a story about some other saiyan achieving all these forms we've seen before and attempting to surpass destroyers, angels, etc? I personally don't care for that.

That's the problem Boruto is going through, we're pretty much seeing what we saw in the original Naruto, just with different characters. If Toriyama ends Goku's story and Toei can't really take anywhere beyond that point they should just move onto something else.

[Simere]

Star Wars had things people were interested in independent of the Skywalkers: the Republic, the Empire, the Jedi and the Sith, and the thematic feel of the setting itself. I'm a big fan of Star Wars, but I really don't like the movies all that much. They established an aesthetic tone I like and provided a framework to build off, but the EU is what always held my love as a fan—specifically the Old Republic era. I actually would've kept the episode movies as a Skywalker saga, though.

Does DB have concepts or themes people are interested in independently of Goku and company? Well, It has Saiyans. There are people who complain about DB's focus on Saiyans, but I think they've correctly identified them as the only unique thing they can build a franchise off of. Whether they're doing a good job of that is a separate question, but if they wanted to explore their origins in a big way they certainly could.

Worldbuilding's pretty straightforward to me. All you have to do is start exploring possibilities, and in so doing new ones will exponentially present themselves. So, of course if they really wanted to they could. Should? Well, I say Dragon Ball is Goku, and if it's not Goku it's not Dragon Ball. They should play Goku's story out as far as it will go, and when it can go no further it should end. That's my should.

[Kakarotto92]

A couple Dragon Ball spin-off anime ideas I've been dying to see for years (even before BoG was announced):

A Dragon Ball Online anime

By "DB Online" I don't mean the crazy Time Patrol Trunks stuff that has been used for the Xenoverse games and DB Heroes, but rather this:

Dragon Ball Online is set in Age 1000, exactly 216 years after Goku left the 28th World Martial Arts Tournament to train Uub in Age 784 at the end of Dragon Ball Z. During this period of time, a number of notable events have occurred; Majin Buu created a wife called Miss Buu, and they soon have a son, thus the start of the Majin race on Earth; Namekians have fled to Earth after Mira attacked and destroyed New Namek. Meanwhile, on Earth, many Earthlings have taken up advanced martial arts; some have trained under Krillin's revived New Turtle School, Tien Shinhan's re-established New Crane School, and Goten and Trunks' new Kikoukenjutsu Sword School; schools made popular due to Gohan's book, which explained ki control and martial arts to the public.

Prior to the events of the computer game Dragon Ball Online, in Age 820, remnants of the Galactic Frieza Army - controlled by Frieza and Cold's guard troops - attacked Earth, resulting in a full scale planetary war and an onslaught of numerous people. Finally, Krillin, Tien Shinhan, Gohan, Pan and the Kikoukenjutsu Sword School, a martial arts school created by Trunks and Goten, engaged in the final battle against the remains of Frieza's army and managed to defeat them. However, the army survived and went into hiding. By the time of Age 910, the Galactic Frieza Army who had been hiding on Earth began expanding their influence, with Booby Island as their center. By the time of Age 1000 they were a major faction once again and are one of the many antagonistic forces attempting to gain control over the planet.

Basically an anime series set inside this world/Age and making use of the concepts/material and designs that Toriyama created for the DB Online game such as Gohan's Grounbreaking science, the new Red Ribbon Army (AKA "The Red Pants Army"), the Dark Namekians, Mecha Commander Red (AKA "Android 9"),the new Majin race, the remnants of the Freeza Force, the Kikoukenjutsu Sword School the Makaioshin characters, etc.

The main cast/characters would be a crew of adventurous martial artists traveling around the DB Online world hunting Dragon Balls and facing multiple dangers and enemies that would appear along the way (much like LOTR or the Straw Hats in One Piece).

Some cool DBO artwork and character designs that could inspire this series:
[spoiler]
















[/spoiler]

A "Next Generation" series

A EoZ sequel with Piccolo, Trunks and Goten (with their EoZ adult appearances) taking over as protagonists of the series and protectors of the Earth/universe/multiverse, while Goku and Vegeta take a back seat and let the new generation take care of things (kind of like like Naruto and Sasuke in the new Boruto series, or even what Goku/Toriyama "promised" during the Buu arc while Goten and Trunks were training in Kami's Palace, but then backed off from the idea later on).

Goku and Vegeta wouldn't even need to be killed to make them stay away from the battlefield. Either Trunks , Goten and Piccolo would make a long GT-like journey through the galaxy (or even to one of the other universes) while Goku and Vegeta chill on Earth, unable to know if those 3 characters are in danger or not. Or some villain that shows up manages to seal Goku and Vegeta inside some object (like Elder Kaioshin or Piccolo Daimao) and hide it somewhere. A mix of both ideas could also work: a villain seals the two characters inside some DB set, and the dragon balls scatter through the universe (or the multiverse) prompting the team of 3 protagonists to go on an adventure searching for them and rescuing their parents.

An anime adaptation of Toyble’s DB Zero

A young Muten Roshi series

A small series (13 to 24 episodes) about Muten Roshi's past which would through his early days as a young student of Mutaito, his friendship and rivalry with Shen, his climbing of the Karin Tower and training under Karin, how he survived during the years of Piccolo Daimao's reign, the matches he and Tsuru-sennin had with Piccolo’s demons, his relationship with his sister Baba (which at this point wouldn't have the old granny appearance she's known for), the founding of the Kame school, how he invented the Kamehameha, his training of Son Gohan and Ox King and his participation and victory at the Tenkaichi Budokai.

A Tsuru-sennin/Tao/Tenshinhan special
A special/ova/movie about Tsuru-sennin founding his martial arts school, Tenshinhan and Chaos's past as assassins and students of Crane and Tao pai pai, Tao's relationship with Tenshinhan and his brother. This could work as a sequel to the Roshi series.

A "Saiyan Chronicles" side-stories series

A small series about the Saiyans who worked for Freeza and King Cold's Planet Trade Organization before the saiyan genocide. I'd love to see some Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic/Force Unleashed type of stories where we would be following around a team of badass Saiyan characters (in the vein of Bardock's team) going on missions or raiding planets. The main difference being instead of spaceship battles and light sabers, you'd have good old Dragon Ball fights and Oozarus destroying cities.

A special/OVA/movie with Vegeta, Nappa and Raditz as the protagonists, about their life as Freeza's henchmen after the destruction of Planet Vegeta. This could work as a DBZ prequel and could end with the three saiyans deciding that it’s "time to pick up Kakarotto" and having him join the team. The final scene would be Raditz entering his space pod and heading to Earth.

[sintzu]

There are people who complain about DB's focus on Saiyans, but I think they've correctly identified them as the only unique thing they can build a franchise off of. but if they wanted to explore their origins in a big way they certainly could.

Their origins is what Super's movie will be about. If it's just about u7 they'll most likely do an arc in super once it returns about u6's saiyans.

[ZeroDio]

Maybe Stuff like

Destroyers of The Past: Basically Coverage of the Universe 13 to 18 Destroyers & Angels

The 4 Other Beings near Grand Priest Level: in the Episode that introduced Grand Priest to Super, we got a mention of 4 unknown Beings that are also near his level of skill, so maybe coverage of 4 beings (Preferably 2 Girls & 2 Guys) on what they look like, Their attacks, and their Divine Positions are

[sintzu]

I think the biggest issue with a non-Goku DB isn't just going through what we already did with him and the others but also the types of villains having to be brought all the way down and built up again. With new characters they'd never be able to top what they did last with Goku and we'll always have a "If Goku was here..." thought anytime something happens. Also, the events they'll revisit will most likely never be able to live up to the orignal's.

[Kakarotto92]

Boruto is a borefest with little to nothing going on in its plot while star wars is an SJW mess that has somehow managed to split the fanbase even more than the prequels did so

Not gonna argue with that, I'm not a fan of the new Boruto show or the last two SW Episodes either. I did like Rogue One and the 2015 Boruto movie though.

You forget that Star Wars actually has a big history of success with spin-offs through novels, videogames or the current CG TV Series. Yes the new sequel movies suck, but it's not so much because they're replacing the main characters, as it is because the replacements are terrible.

As for Boruto, the show actually has lot potential (Mitsuki and Sarada are much less annoying characters than Sasuke and Sakura, for instance), I haven't checked out the manga but I'm sure once Pierrot is done with the slice of life filler fluff the show will improve greatly (that is if they don't ruin everything with the whole technology stuff later on)

[sintzu]

As for Boruto, the show actually has lot potential, I'm sure once Pierrot is done with the slice of life filler fluff the show will improve greatly.

We're 57 episodes in and we've yet to see even a glimps of that potential. They're currently retelling the movie (the movie was great) but unlike Super's retellings, they're not even bothering to completely re-animate it as they're using a lot of scenes from the movie. The movie retelling will probably last up to 65 or so which will leave 35 episodes before it gets to a 100 and even then I wouldn't be surprised if they're still wasting time. The only good thing to come out of this show was the Sarada mini arc which in itself was under the Naruto brand in the manga and released a year earlier so it isn't even a completely original Boruto product. I think the biggest thing holding it back is Kishimoto's lack of involvement with it as he said he told his story with the conclusion of Boruto's movie so he left everything to the anime's staff and his assistant which was clearly a mistake.

[Logania]

Ugh, you had to remind me of Star Wars, the SJW train wreck.

Dragon Ball really could be a rare case in Shonen anime where it doesn't have to have a central protagonist with how big the universe has become. 12 universes full of new characters they can bring some light to, have their own little segments that build on their characters and world like a 10 episode segment of the Pride Troopers, 10 episodes of Planet Sadala and the Defense Force, etc.

They keep expanding the Dragon Ball Universe, but not building it, it's just wasted potential. Give my boi Hit some episodes with his assassin job, the little segment they showed with the cyber-punk world was really cool, do stuff like that!