Should Dragon Ball move forward from the "Goku Saga"? If yes, what new DB stories would you like to see?

[Robo4900]

The Goku saga should have ended after Cell. I like the Boo arc, and I think it works as an ending to the original manga, but if the story wasn't right about to end at that point, Goku should have stayed dead, with the torch being passed on ultimately to Gohan, and preparations in place to pass it further on to Trunks and Goten.
If GT had gone on, they should have moved on to the Goku Jr. era, and told that story.

Goku doesn't really have anywhere to go aside from "moar powaaaahhh!!", so I absolutely think we should move on. Gohan and co. are already really well-liked, so there's no reason a next-generation Dragon Ball series couldn't work, at the very least.

Ugh, you had to remind me of Star Wars, the SJW train wreck.

Yes. How dare they have a female main character.

[Logania]

Yes. How dare they have a female main character.

Nah, it's not having a female main character, Rey's problem herself is being a bland Mary Sue with no real sense of development or belonging in the story. I can't get invested with her as a character.

I'm mainly referring to the SJW comment about the franchise in total.

[sintzu]

Goku doesn't really have anywhere to go aside from "moar powaaaahhh!!", so I absolutely think we should move on.

There's no reason a next-generation Dragon Ball series couldn't work, at the very least.

Yes. How dare they have a female main character.

Isn't that what we'll get all over again with whatever new Saiyan who takes over ?

There's probably someone out there among the 7 billion people living on this earth who can make it work but we've yet to see a truly successful "next gen" story like that.

It has nothing to do with there being women or people of color as leads as Wonder Woman and Black Panther clearly show people like them in main roles, the issue is how everyone involved with Star Wars has been acting towards people who don't like what they're doing. people are understandably going to get annoyed when the default answer to any issue they have with the franchise is "you're racist", "you're sexist", "You're (insert whatever other nosense they've said)", etc. Black Panther made more than the last jedi so I guess that puts a lid on the whole "racist" thing they were going with, now let's hope Wonder Woman 2 can as well.

[ABED]

Goku doesn't really have anywhere to go aside from "moar powaaaahhh!!", so I absolutely think we should move on. Gohan and co. are already really well-liked, so there's no reason a next-generation Dragon Ball series couldn't work, at the very least.

DB would not feel like DB with GOhan as the lead. He's more earnest than Goku and not into fighting all that much. Who else do you think can take over that lead role this deep into the story? I'm very hesitent about stories continuing with another character as the lead. I haven't seen done that well and even in the cases where the story is good, the main character is not as compelling as the former lead, e.g. I loved Creed, but the most compelling character in the movie was Rocky.

[sintzu]

I'm very hesitent about stories continuing with another character as the lead. I haven't seen done that well and even in the cases where the story is good, the main character is not as compelling as the former lead, e.g. I loved Creed, but the most compelling character in the movie was Rocky.

That's the problem with Boruto, it's only good when Naruto and Sasuke are involved. Changing the main character works when the story is structured with that in mind like Jojo but not in DB's case.

[ABED]

I'm very hesitent about stories continuing with another character as the lead. I haven't seen done that well and even in the cases where the story is good, the main character is not as compelling as the former lead, e.g. I loved Creed, but the most compelling character in the movie was Rocky.

That's the problem with Boruto, it's only good when Naruto and Sasuke are involved. Changing the main character works when the story is structured with that in mind like Jojo but not in DB's case.

Yeah, my caveat to the statement is if it's designed that way from the beginning. It seems that after 2 or 3 years with one main character, it becomes almost impossible to switch in a satisfying way.

[sintzu]

One thing DB could do to change things up is just change the focus to other characters for a bit before going back to Goku, or even have 2 stories play out, one for Goku and the other for someone else. Naruto did this all the time with great results so I don't see why it can't work for DB.

It seems that after 2 or 3 years with one main character, it becomes almost impossible to switch in a satisfying way.

Goku is the face of not only DB but shonen as a whole, replacing him will be the worst financial choice anyone could make.

[Mister_Popo]

Z was a little bit more balanced in Goku time than Super. He showed up in the end or in critical situations in Z, but wasn't omni-present the whole time. The Android and Cell sagas are perfect examples of that (Goku only really 'present' in the Cell games arc and it's preparation, mainly absent in Android-saga due to heart disease). In the first part of the Buu saga Goku didn't play a major role as well (short fight against fat Buu, no fight against Super Buu and only major role from Buuhan onwards), other characters got their opportunity to shine during his absence. Those were great story arcs, weren't they, according to many fans alike? Of course, Dragon Ball mainly is Goku's story, certainly now Toriyama hasn't yet finished his part it's normal to have him around on a regulary basis. He just doesn't need to be as much around as in Super in general. Mainly in TOP there was a bit too much Goku time IMHO. He was always there in every major battle against almost every Universe. Why couldn't Vegeta or Gohan for instance fight against Kale and Cailifla?

The movie about the origin of Saiyans would have been an opportunity to do something different and intresting inside the Dragon Ball-universe without Goku, mainly focussing on the past rather than the present. I really think that would have been possible with the focuss on Sadala and Yamoshi, and do something renewing. The commercial value of Goku of course couldn't be denied, this doesn't mean it's gonna be a bad movie. I'd like other, new characters to get their opportunity to shine as well. That's what makes storytelling intresting, to explore new characters and new domains. Show us these ancient Saiyans fighting, and spare the big duel between Goku and the main villain till the final half hour.

I still like him as a character as long he isn't overplayed. I wouldn't object Goku would evolve in time to the rol of a 'Yedi-master' (to guide Uub, the next generation of Saiyans? ... to greater hights), only to emerge on special occasions when needed or as a trainer / advisor, to let other characters shine as well and give them opportunities to develop. Maybe when he puts on that Blue Gi again that could be a good metaphoric indicator it's Goku's time to evolve as a character. This stays in contrast to the great commercial value he has, and Goku screentime still means business. So it'll be intresting to see how Toriyama lets him evolve as a character and what effect this has on the screentime he gets.

[KBABZ]

I HIGHLY doubt Toriyama has any idea how to end the story. It's not like he did the first time!

Personally I can see Dragon Ball working without Goku as the focus since it has such a wide breadth of characters, but it probably wouldn't be in the main product because that's not how good marketing works. Often though I feel like the only guy in the room who finds the world itself to be a character (most obviously in the first two Dragon Ball hunts that emphasizes the various locations Goku visits) and has room for tales outside of the main cast. As a comparison, some of Pokémon's most interesting stories come from Pokémon Chronicles where Ash doesn't appear and instead focuses on the side characters and what they can get up to (Misty managing the Water Gym for the first time, for example). I see no reason why Dragon Ball cannot comfortably and confidently tell that sort of story. And it has: The History of Trunks is a VERY compelling and fan-favourite story where Goku is long-dead and isn't important at all.

There's also a good chunk of the story where Goku doesn't appear at all, with no premonitions of coming back, which is the Saiyaman portion. Saiyaman himself didn't work too well outside of Ginyu-style Narm Charm, but I personally really enjoyed seeing Gohan go through high school and visit Capsule Corp, where we got to see his relationship with Trunks a little bit, that smaller slice of life stuff. It was different from what Dragon Ball had been doing up until that point. DBZ Movies 10 and 11 are also not about Goku outside of the lineage with Goten and Gohan, and obviously Broly thinking Goten was his dad being used to start the fighting. AND most of the Namek Arc doesn't feature Goku either and the main characters are instead Vegeta, Gohan, Krillin and Bulma; it isn't until the Ginyu Force appears that Goku starts being the focus again, which is, what, 24 episodes/weeks without Goku and it handled it like a champ. Some of my favourite parts of the Android arc are when Goku isn't there due to the heart virus. Discovering the Time Machine, the battle on the highway road, and encountering Cell did not require Goku's presence to be compelling and interesting. It's what you do with your characters that's most important to a good story, not some arbitrary need to insert the most popular character over and over again.

[namekiansaiyan]

I want it to become a series where there is no main character and there are multiple high profile characters.

We are at a point where there are so many characters that can easily move things forward without Goku's help. We have many universes with Universe 6, 7 and 11 being the main ones.

Goku is still always around but just not the main focus all the time and is not saved by the plot to have the last main fight. It will always create unpredictability and multiple characters get meaningful things to do.

[ABED]

I want it to become a series where there is no main character and there are multiple high profile characters.

We are at a point where there are so many characters that can easily move things forward without Goku's help. We have many universes with Universe 6, 7 and 11 being the main ones.

Goku is still always around but just not the main focus all the time and is not saved by the plot to have the last main fight. It will always create unpredictability and multiple characters get meaningful things to do.

Why do you want DB without Goku as the main character?

Not having a main character doesn't mean the stories will be more unpredictable and could very well end up making the stories feel even less focused since it's trying to service too many important stories.

it probably wouldn't be in the main product because that's not how good marketing works.

Having a main character take most of the focus doesn't have to do with marketing. It's about keeping focus in the story. And short stories without Goku in the lead isn't sufficient evidence that the story could exist well without him for an extended period, nor does giving other characters important parts to play in the story. Having a main character has never meant they have to be in every single scene. To imply that it is would be to create a strawman argument.

When people point to Goku Time, I feel like they forget DB where Goku is unquestionably the lead.

[MasenkoHA]

while star wars is an SJW mess .

It really isnt. Nerds just get triggered because OH MY GOD women and people of color in Star Wars!

[Spencer_23]

I’m mixed on what I’d like to see.

The examples you gave have split fanbases. Star Wars has been awful imo and Boruto has been pretty boring.

I’d like them to eventually make a series with Goten, Trunks, Pan, etc older but would 100% need a great closure for Goku. How would it even work? Goku could die naturally I guess but that’d be way in the future. I enjoyed the GT movie with Goku Jr somewhat but I do not think the series without Goku & company would be nearly as successful.

[sintzu]

while star wars is an SJW mess .

It really isnt. Nerds just get triggered because OH MY GOD women and people of color in Star Wars!

You clearly didn't read what I said after (why do that when you can use the race and gender get out of jail free card) so I'll just post it again.

"It has nothing to do with there being women or people of color as leads as Wonder Woman and Black Panther clearly show people like them in main roles, the issue is how everyone involved with Star Wars has been acting towards people who don't like what they're doing. people are understandably going to get annoyed when the default answer to any issue they have with the franchise is "you're racist", "you're sexist", "You're (insert whatever other nosense they've said)", etc. Black Panther made more than the last jedi so I guess that puts a lid on the whole "racist" thing they were going with, now let's hope Wonder Woman 2 can as well".

Your reply is pretty much what they're saying to everyone and it's very annoying to read even as a non-star wars fan so I can't even begin to think what fans are going through who've spent thousands of $$$ on the franchise. It's going to be very interesting to see how long they can keep it up cause it's only a matter of time before people are going to say enough is enough and move onto something else. Disney needs to get control over this PR nightmare before it's too late and they should start by throwing Ryan Johnson out cause from what I can tell he's the worst of them, doing that should shut the rest up.

[Logania]

I think it's already happening, as merchandise for Star Wars has declined over 20% and The Last Jedi is one of the worst rated Star Wars movie of all time by audiences.

It hardly matters that they make over a billion on the box office sales when it causes the main source of income to drop exponentionally. Last Jedi killed my enjoyment of Star Wars and Solo: A Star Wars Story only made it worse.

[sintzu]

I think it's already happening, as merchandise for Star Wars has declined over 20% and The Last Jedi is one of the worst rated Star Wars movie of all time by audiences.

It hardly matters that they make over a billion on the box office sales when it causes the main source of income to drop exponentionally. Last Jedi killed my enjoyment of Star Wars and Solo: A Star Wars Story only made it worse.

Yeah it made 1.3 billion but the previous main episode made over 2 billion. I get that it was an "event" movie but the drop shouldn't have been that big and to make things worse the director, lead actress & head of Lucasfilm have been attacking everyone who have problems with it, including the people who supported it. This has only been going on for half a year give or take so we're not going to see the franchise crash and burn this year or even next year but as time goes on you'll see the numbers keep falling, even if it takes awhile. Star wars is big, maybe the biggest franchise out there but you can only insult people for so long before the bottom falls out and it will.

[Robo4900]

It has nothing to do with there being women or people of color as leads as Wonder Woman and Black Panther clearly show people like them in main roles, the issue is how everyone involved with Star Wars has been acting towards people who don't like what they're doing. people are understandably going to get annoyed when the default answer to any issue they have with the franchise is "you're racist", "you're sexist", "You're (insert whatever other nosense they've said)", etc. Black Panther made more than the last jedi so I guess that puts a lid on the whole "racist" thing they were going with, now let's hope Wonder Woman 2 can as well.

... Okay... Maybe you should just stay off of YouTube comments and Reddit, and discuss it with reasonable people.

The big problem with The Last Jedi discussion is that a massive proportion of its detractors are the racists, the sexists, etc. I've rarely seen anyone jump down anyone's throat about it when it hasn't been obvious this is the position of the person criticising, but perhaps that's just the circles I interact with.
If you don't want people assuming you're one of those people, I suggest avoiding remarks like Loagnia's "The Star Wars SJW trainwreck". Saying stuff like that often implies a certain kind of person is behind those words... And defending someone who'd say that is an easy way to put a target on your back if you can't back yourself up with an iron-clad rebuttal.
I'm not saying you're one of the awful people who set up botnets to destroy Last Jedi's RottenTomatoes rating, but a lot of people online often assume this kind of thing when there's that level of irrational hatred of the film.

Nah, it's not having a female main character, Rey's problem herself is being a bland Mary Sue with no real sense of development or belonging in the story. I can't get invested with her as a character.

She's not a Mary Sue, she has had a lot of development over the films.
There's no problem with not being engaged in a character, but your criticisms don't stand up. This thread is not the time or the place to get into this, so I'll leave it at that, but I suggest you do some googling around; a lot of film buffs and critics have written up far better rebuttals to the Rey Mary Sue argument than I ever could.

I'm mainly referring to the SJW comment about the franchise in total.

I don't get it...
Perhaps we should move this somewhere else. I have a feeling the scope of this discussion is far outside the scope of this thread.

[Logania]

If you don't want people assuming you're one of those people, I suggest not saying "The Star Wars SJW trainwreck", though.

Hey now! I'M the one who called it a trainwreck! lol

[Robo4900]

If you don't want people assuming you're one of those people, I suggest not saying "The Star Wars SJW trainwreck", though.

Hey now! I'M the one who called it a trainwreck! lol

Yeah, I realised that. Edited my post after I realised it. You should be able to see the fixed post now.

[Logania]

You're right, it's not the right place, which is why I really wished there was an off-topic section of the like, as I would like talking about it with sintzu and anyone else who would like to discuss it.