I think it's time to admit Gohan is a terrible character

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Re: I think it's time to admit Gohan is a terrible character

Postby Desassina » Mon May 14, 2018 4:45 pm

The only thing terrible about Gohan has been DBS's portrayal of his potential yet again. If they wanted to bring him along, then they could have thought of another development, but the series wouldn't have been known for its references otherwise. I guess that I could excuse them for wanting Super to wrap things up in its own product, because Dragon Ball/Z had only tackled this issue once, but it's two times the amount for a long time fan. The same thing could be said with regards to Vegeta as well though.

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Re: I think it's time to admit Gohan is a terrible character

Postby Kokonoe » Tue May 15, 2018 5:53 am

Gohan is only terrible in the Buu saga and Super. I personally enjoyed his progression as a character and his more compassionate personality than say Goku's.

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Re: I think it's time to admit Gohan is a terrible character

Postby DragonBallKing » Tue May 15, 2018 12:06 pm

Kokonoe wrote:Gohan is only terrible in the Buu saga and Super. I personally enjoyed his progression as a character and his more compassionate personality than say Goku's.

See I'm the opposite I love great saiyaman stuff, but hate the 2cool4you nuthin personel kid ssj2 and ultimate gohan which removes his good aspects for the sake of being edgy and "badass".
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Re: I think it's time to admit Gohan is a terrible character

Postby sunsetshimmer » Tue May 15, 2018 12:36 pm

Kid Gohan was awful, especially in Cell saga.
Gohan SSJ2 is the worst thing that happened to this character and one of the many reasons why i consider Cell saga to be lowest point of Z.

But Adult Gohan in DBZ/DBGT/DBS is great.
The only exceptions where adult Gohan sucked were Ressurection 'F' saga and Ultimate Gohan in DBZ.
Other than that, adult Gohan is leagues above the annoying brat he was before Buu saga.
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Re: I think it's time to admit Gohan is a terrible character

Postby Kokonoe » Wed May 16, 2018 1:45 am

sunsetshimmer wrote:Kid Gohan was awful, especially in Cell saga.
Gohan SSJ2 is the worst thing that happened to this character and one of the many reasons why i consider Cell saga to be lowest point of Z.

But Adult Gohan in DBZ/DBGT/DBS is great.
The only exceptions where adult Gohan sucked were Ressurection 'F' saga and Ultimate Gohan in DBZ.
Other than that, adult Gohan is leagues above the annoying brat he was before Buu saga.

It's called him being a kid, I'm sure you if you were raised mainly by your mother secluded and then being thrown on the battlefield with warriors you'd act the same way.

DragonBallKing wrote:
Kokonoe wrote:Gohan is only terrible in the Buu saga and Super. I personally enjoyed his progression as a character and his more compassionate personality than say Goku's.

See I'm the opposite I love great saiyaman stuff, but hate the 2cool4you nuthin personel kid ssj2 and ultimate gohan which removes his good aspects for the sake of being edgy and "badass".

Never ever saw it that way. When Gohan goes Super Saiyan 2 he's literally crying in the process, and being the emotional character that he is, of course he's going to be full of rage. I don't see his passion as edgy in the slightest.

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Re: I think it's time to admit Gohan is a terrible character

Postby PFM18 » Wed May 16, 2018 7:29 pm

People complain that he is not fighting and that he is not some warrior that is hungry for battle like Goku and Vegeta when he was never even portrayed to be anything other than a guy who doesn't like fighting and only does it when it is necessary. His actual character is a guy who dislikes fighting, likes saving people, is a good father, and is an intelligent scholar type. People like to force upon him this warrior persona and it is very strange. DBS shows the natural progression of the character after DBZ. He was always interested in being an academic and never had a passion for fighting. I think he was handled very well in DBS. He doesn't fit well as the secondary main character anyway

That said I don't see how he is a terrible character. Not a fighter /=/ bad character

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Re: I think it's time to admit Gohan is a terrible character

Postby DragonBallKing » Thu May 17, 2018 2:31 pm

His main problem lies in the Cell arc where the manga really does nothing with him character wise until the cell games, It really just came out of nowhere and should have had a bit more buildup if hes going to be the hero of the arc. Maybe give him more interaction with trunks or something IDK.
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Re: I think it's time to admit Gohan is a terrible character

Postby Slangh » Sat May 19, 2018 4:35 pm

Only Cell arc Gohan was a bad character.

Gohan is an interesting character because he has a conflict between his peaceful nature and his desire of justice, along with his power. He has responsibility that comes with his power but he also really wants to become a scholar. The Great Saiyaman is the solution to this: an anonymous superhero persona to go hand in hand with his peaceful ambitions. But first, he had to overcome his fear for fighting. After fighting Nappa he already had gotten over this and fought enemies without holding back. He never liked fighting but was eventually willing to go far for justice. He even killed one of Freeza's goons followed by a cheerful thumbs up. He went all out against Recoome and Freeza. But for some reason he became a pacifist against Cell, despite his experience with merciless enemies and despite training for four years for the sole purpose of killing the androids. The younger Gohan would have gone all-out against Cell right away because he knew he had killed millions of innocent people already. Where was the desperate bravado he had against Recoome? "I'm the son of Goku, I will not let you win...!" Plus his father counted on him. That should have been the motivation for Super Saiyan 2. He's supposed to be smart, he would not think Cell would redeem himself. He had no qualms killing that puny goon on Namek, so why would he show mercy on Cell? He's a thousand times worse!

Cell arc Gohan was a bad character because he suddenly refused to kill evil monsters and could only let go when some android he never knew persuaded him. His sense of justice was nowhere to be seen. But it's the plot that lead to this, so it was more a matter of bad writing. Buu saga Gohan is the true Gohan once more, especially with the Great Saiyaman stuff. He got weaker because he's not really a fighter, but when he fights he's merciless, that has been shown countless times. He wouldn't have spared Dabura or Majin Buu if he had the power.

In an alternative scenario, Goku would tell Gohan his plan in advance, but without revealing it the reader. It's his and Gohan's secret, for the sake of Chi Chi's well being. Goku already hinted that he would let Gohan fight when he said he wanted him to surpass him. Gohan has more confidence and mental preparation knowing this plan, like he had in anticipation for the fight with the androids. Before the fight, Goku still says something like "once this is over, you'll get to be a scholar" and Gohan agrees full-heartedly. Everyone is shocked at this. As they fight, Cell pushes Gohan to the edge as he's still too strong for him, and Gohan slowly has his anger bubbling up like it did against Recoome. But because it takes too long, his friends try to help him. Their suffering was enough for Gohan to go berserk against Freeza and it should work against Cell, too. Cell jrs. are unnecessary. Their power is a plot hole in itself anyway. Then you have Super Saiyan 2, with the same character corruption, resulting in Goku's sacrifice. The rest remains the same, except that C-16 is still alive. But Gohan's character would be more consistent with the rest of the story.

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Re: I think it's time to admit Gohan is a terrible character

Postby Kokonoe » Sun May 20, 2018 2:20 am

Slangh wrote:Cell arc Gohan was a bad character because he suddenly refused to kill evil monsters and could only let go when some android he never knew persuaded him. His sense of justice was nowhere to be seen. But it's the plot that lead to this, so it was more a matter of bad writing. Buu saga Gohan is the true Gohan once more, especially with the Great Saiyaman stuff. He got weaker because he's not really a fighter, but when he fights he's merciless, that has been shown countless times. He wouldn't have spared Dabura or Majin Buu if he had the power.


So are you saying Goku throughout the Saiyan and Frieza sagas is a bad character because he refused to kill Vegeta and Frieza? Frieza literally enlaves and destroys planets and whipes out races, and even murdered his best friend in front of his eyes and he still didn't kill him.

I don't see how this is any different at all.

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Re: I think it's time to admit Gohan is a terrible character

Postby JazzMazz » Sun May 20, 2018 3:17 am

Kokonoe wrote:
Slangh wrote:Cell arc Gohan was a bad character because he suddenly refused to kill evil monsters and could only let go when some android he never knew persuaded him. His sense of justice was nowhere to be seen. But it's the plot that lead to this, so it was more a matter of bad writing. Buu saga Gohan is the true Gohan once more, especially with the Great Saiyaman stuff. He got weaker because he's not really a fighter, but when he fights he's merciless, that has been shown countless times. He wouldn't have spared Dabura or Majin Buu if he had the power.


So are you saying Goku throughout the Saiyan and Frieza sagas is a bad character because he refused to kill Vegeta and Frieza? Frieza literally enlaves and destroys planets and whipes out races, and even murdered his best friend in front of his eyes and he still didn't kill him.

I don't see how this is any different at all.

Gohan isn't Goku.

The initial paragraph explains why he believes that.
Gohan is an interesting character because he has a conflict between his peaceful nature and his desire of justice, along with his power. He has responsibility that comes with his power but he also really wants to become a scholar. The Great Saiyaman is the solution to this: an anonymous superhero persona to go hand in hand with his peaceful ambitions. But first, he had to overcome his fear for fighting. After fighting Nappa he already had gotten over this and fought enemies without holding back. He never liked fighting but was eventually willing to go far for justice. He even killed one of Freeza's goons followed by a cheerful thumbs up. He went all out against Recoome and Freeza. But for some reason he became a pacifist against Cell, despite his experience with merciless enemies and despite training for four years for the sole purpose of killing the androids. The younger Gohan would have gone all-out against Cell right away because he knew he had killed millions of innocent people already. Where was the desperate bravado he had against Recoome? "I'm the son of Goku, I will not let you win...!" Plus his father counted on him. That should have been the motivation for Super Saiyan 2. He's supposed to be smart, he would not think Cell would redeem himself. He had no qualms killing that puny goon on Namek, so why would he show mercy on Cell? He's a thousand times worse!

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Re: I think it's time to admit Gohan is a terrible character

Postby Slangh » Sun May 20, 2018 7:10 pm

Kokonoe wrote:
Slangh wrote:Cell arc Gohan was a bad character because he suddenly refused to kill evil monsters and could only let go when some android he never knew persuaded him. His sense of justice was nowhere to be seen. But it's the plot that lead to this, so it was more a matter of bad writing. Buu saga Gohan is the true Gohan once more, especially with the Great Saiyaman stuff. He got weaker because he's not really a fighter, but when he fights he's merciless, that has been shown countless times. He wouldn't have spared Dabura or Majin Buu if he had the power.


So are you saying Goku throughout the Saiyan and Frieza sagas is a bad character because he refused to kill Vegeta and Frieza? Frieza literally enlaves and destroys planets and whipes out races, and even murdered his best friend in front of his eyes and he still didn't kill him.

I don't see how this is any different at all.


It's very different because Goku actually likes fighting and having a nemesis, first shown when he spared Piccolo. Gohan doesn't care about any of that, but after Nappa he's shown to be very willing to fight if it means bringing peace. His sudden non-aggression stance against Cell contradicts this and makes him a bad character.

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Re: I think it's time to admit Gohan is a terrible character

Postby Lord Beerus » Mon May 21, 2018 7:08 am

Slangh wrote:
Kokonoe wrote:
Slangh wrote:Cell arc Gohan was a bad character because he suddenly refused to kill evil monsters and could only let go when some android he never knew persuaded him. His sense of justice was nowhere to be seen. But it's the plot that lead to this, so it was more a matter of bad writing. Buu saga Gohan is the true Gohan once more, especially with the Great Saiyaman stuff. He got weaker because he's not really a fighter, but when he fights he's merciless, that has been shown countless times. He wouldn't have spared Dabura or Majin Buu if he had the power.


So are you saying Goku throughout the Saiyan and Frieza sagas is a bad character because he refused to kill Vegeta and Frieza? Frieza literally enlaves and destroys planets and whipes out races, and even murdered his best friend in front of his eyes and he still didn't kill him.

I don't see how this is any different at all.


It's very different because Goku actually likes fighting and having a nemesis, first shown when he spared Piccolo. Gohan doesn't care about any of that, but after Nappa he's shown to be very willing to fight if it means bringing peace. His sudden non-aggression stance against Cell contradicts this and makes him a bad character.

I've always resented how Gohan was handled in the Android/Cell arc. He just seems so terribly crow-barred into the final conflict to make up for the fact that he was absent for 90% of the arc. An arc that supposed to be the springboard for him becoming the main character. And when he is in the final conflict, his character was all over the place. And in my humble opinion, just flat out regressed.

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Re: I think it's time to admit Gohan is a terrible character

Postby Kakarotto92 » Tue May 22, 2018 3:36 pm

I was never a fan of the character, but I wouldn't say he's terrible. As a kid my favourites were Goku, Vegeta and Piccolo and for a while I assumed it was the same for most people. It was only later as a teenager in the mid 2000's, when I first had internet at home and also through talking about DB with my friends at the time that I realized how big Gohan's popularity actually was, which was quite a surprise to me at the time. That doesn't mean I see him as a shitty/bad character, Dragon Ball is one of those very few series in which I can't say I dislike a single character, there's simply some who I care less/don't like as much as I do others (the exact same thing can be said about the 10 different arcs of the manga).

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Re: I think it's time to admit Gohan is a terrible character

Postby ringworm128 » Sat May 26, 2018 1:48 am

Most hate I've seen towards Gohan comes from Toonami fans who just don't like the idea of the characters settling down and like to view the series as a "HARD COREZ ACTIONZ series where the characters sit on their head all day waiting for the next big bad to show up.

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Re: I think it's time to admit Gohan is a terrible character

Postby Kunzait_83 » Sat May 26, 2018 2:25 am

ringworm128 wrote:Most hate I've seen towards Gohan comes from Toonami fans who just don't like the idea of the characters settling down and like to view the series as a "HARD COREZ ACTIONZ series where the characters sit on their head all day waiting for the next big bad to show up.


It seems like that particular crowd especially ended up taking to Gohan over the years as "the main character of Dragon Ball" over Goku in their eyes: which is something I genuinely had NO IDEA about whatsoever until Super started up and these people started positively freaking the mother of FUCK out all over the internet that Gohan wasn't the front and center stage badass among badasses.

My own personal memory of the Toonami fanboys from back in the early-early 2000s was them obsessing largely over Vegeta (and then Broli of course by more the mid-2000s): the Gohan fixation among them was completely news to me until BoG and RoF came around.

Its an interesting perspective though: as its been explained to me by many of those folks themselves, because they largely didn't see original Dragon Ball (despite it also being played on Toonami, and back to back alongside DBZ no less: either they didn't see it, or they did and just didn't give a shit about it for whatever reason) and they view DBZ as really THE only stretch of the series that matters, AND because they were all largely around Gohan's age at the time when they started watching it... Gohan ended up, in their eyes, becoming the POV character that they identified with. In their eyes, they "grew up alongside" Gohan as the series went on; so in their mind apparently, its Gohan who is the heart and soul and central character of the whole thing and not Goku.

Unlike so many other things relating to the diehard Toonami fanbase, this at least makes a certain amount of sense in and of itself... it just so happens to be completely and utterly incorrect and largely the fault of the backward-assed, totally screwed up manner in which FUNimation presented this whole series in the first place.

But yeah, evidently this is where the obsession with Gohan being the end-all-be-all greatest fighter in all of Dragon Ball-dom among a certain stretch of fandom stems from.
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Zephyr wrote:And that's to say nothing of how pretty much impossible it is to capture what made the original run of the series so great. I'm in the generation of fans that started with Toonami, so I totally empathize with the feeling of having "missed the party", experiencing disappointment, and wanting to experience it myself. But I can't, that's how life is. Time is a bitch. The party is over. Kageyama, Kikuchi, and Maeda are off the sauce now; Yanami almost OD'd; Yamamoto got arrested; Toriyama's not going to light trash cans on fire and hang from the chandelier anymore. We can't get the band back together, and even if we could, everyone's either old, in poor health, or calmed way the fuck down. Best we're going to get, and are getting, is a party that's almost entirely devoid of the magic that made the original one so awesome that we even want more.


Kamiccolo9 wrote:It grinds my gears that people get "outraged" over any of this stuff. It's a fucking cartoon. If you are that determined to be angry about something, get off the internet and make a stand for something that actually matters.

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Re: I think it's time to admit Gohan is a terrible character

Postby PsionicWarrior » Mon May 28, 2018 7:57 pm

DBZAOTA482 wrote:Whenever I hear fans praise Gohan, it's always because of his powers never his personality or whatnot... in fact, when his real character shines through (like the Gt. Saiyaman stuff) they complain about it. They might as well just come out to say his character is shit and roll with it.

Even Broly fans are less fake- at least they're willing to admit the character they love sucks.


Am I really the only Gohan fan enjoying the GT Saiyaman stuff lol

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Re: I think it's time to admit Gohan is a terrible character

Postby TheGreatSaiyaman » Tue May 29, 2018 11:04 am

I don't think he's a terrible character, just poorly handled.

In terms of fighting, whilst he doesn't live for fighting all day every day like a Goku or Vegeta clone, he obviously has some (bear with me) passion for fighting and defending the peace as he fought many times over DBZ, Super and even GT - GT Gohan was kinda cool and I like the suit whilst fighting, so what sue me? This is unpopular but I even like the tracksuit (not my favorite though) - reminds me of Phinks from HxH and is completely unique. Furthermore, his life as a scholar, whilst true to his character, needn't hinder him from training or sideline him from any tournaments or goings on eg Trunks arc where he was like 'oh what's up Trunks, no idea why you're here but cool, let's chill'.

I think his personality shines when he's a goof though - aka Great Saiyaman, the baseball episodes, Barry Kahn filler. Even saw a video where Kid Gohan tells Nappa he smells like what the heck, that's hilarious. But it needed a balance, where he was in fight mode, not to be cocky and arrogant or get hit in vital spots from letting down his guards eg vs Tagoma and it needed to be consistent. The problem was he was too up and down, one minute, 'I don't like fights", next 'I'm going to crush you sadistically Cell' to ' oh WMAT coming up, let's go train Goten' to 'I'm the best, you can't touch me'. That and the weird changes in appearance in Super just made matters worse, not to mention we were 'baited' about his development after RF where he wanted to train w/ Piccolo but nothing changed. Even in the ToP, all the Saiyans + most top fighters rose to new heights, meanwhile, U.Gohan was completely underwhelming, struggling against weaker opponents, with boring showings (punch spam or Kamehameha) despite showing some promise earlier on in the Zen Exhibition matches and vs Goku, who put him down using SSB w/ Kaioken.



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