DB Endings

[ABED]

We're now in this odd period where it seems like DB will literally never end. As a kid or teen getting into the show, I probably would've been all for that. Now that I've seen much more, I do prefer stories to have endings, especially when the writer(s) nail it. Hell, I've even come around to liking DBZ's ending. Okay, not so much Uub's part in it, but what it represents for Goku thematically. DB's had several possible end points over the years, what were your favorites, least favorites, etc.? Are there moments that could've served as a suitable ending for the story? Do you prefer the current paradigm of no end in sight?

[KBABZ]

For the first ten years of its life Dragon Ball kinda did go on without end, but eventually wrapped things up when the well ran dry from an energy perspective.

I've always felt that, while Frieza obviously ISN'T the end of the series, it really felt like it could be. Goku had achieved Super Saiyan, avenged the Saiyan race, and died a warrior, rounding out the "Goku discovers he's a Saiyan" thing introduced with Raditz's reveal of who he truly is and explaining why Goku is so freakishly strong.. As well, the way he defeated Frieza (intentionally or not) harkened back to Roshi's lessons as Jackie Chun about always improving ones self, and how Frieza not bothering with that led to his downfall. You also had a set of "super" Dragon Balls and we ventured into space for the first time.

One could also argue that the end of the Red Ribbon/Baba arc could have served as a nice end point for Kid Goku as well, considering he got to meet his grandfather again and bookend the story so far. The finale of the 23rd Tournament is another great point overall, with Goku becoming an adult, undergone training by God and defeated his arch nemesis in a climactic battle that was preceded by Goku marrying Chi-Chi and leaving at the end with her.

[ABED]

I've never been big on Goku dying at the end. All other things being equal, heroes dying is my least favorite ending. It also feels out of place with DB to end on such a downer. Besides, we learn he didn't die when everyone is wished back at the very end.

Kunzait brought up a good ending that I never thought of before - Battle of Gods. It ends with Goku learning there are several other universes for him to explore all with powerful warriors. It's very open ended but thematically ties up Goku's story.

[KBABZ]

Besides, we learn he didn't die when everyone is wished back at the very end.

Well yes that goes without saying! But it could have acted as an endpoint with a few changes here and there, is what I'm saying.

[ABED]

Besides, we learn he didn't die when everyone is wished back at the very end.

Well yes that goes without saying! But it could have acted as an endpoint with a few changes here and there, is what I'm saying.

Ah, gotcha.

I agree about the end of the 23rd TB being a very satisfying ending.

[KBABZ]

Besides, we learn he didn't die when everyone is wished back at the very end.

Well yes that goes without saying! But it could have acted as an endpoint with a few changes here and there, is what I'm saying.

Ah, gotcha.

I agree about the end of the 23rd TB being a very satisfying ending.

Kinda thematically appropriate that the original anime would conclude there. Goku I feel still had a bit of that Kid Goku look about him in his face, and he bests the return of his greatest foe. Nice way to wrap that up before Raditz comes along and throws the story into whole new directions with the Saiyans from Space and everything that would lead to.

[OhHiRenan]

My favorite ending for the series is the manga’s ending. It’s a great end to Goku’s arc, ties into themes established all the way back in the 21st Budokai, and isn’t overly sentimental to the point where it doesn’t feel like Dragon Ball. For all the praise GT’s ending gets, it has always felt tonally out of place for me.

[ABED]

I can see where one would think that such a sentimental ending feels out of place for DB, but it's not really. DB doesn't overdo it, so the few times it does do it, it feels warranted. At the very least, it's tonally in line with GT which I grant you doesn't have the same feel as DB.

[sintzu]

I think the best one was the 23rd Tenkaichi as Goku was without a doubt the strongest man alive and at that point he reached his goal. Once the Saiyan arc rolled around and everything opened up it was hard to capture that definitive end feel again as even after the manga ended there was always the question of "what else is out there". Now that Toriyama's back we got an answer to that, there isn't anything left in U7 so now all eyes are on the other universes and Goku is the strongest among the 8 that fought in the tournament. Once Super's back I think Goku will go after the other 4 and truly become the strongest man to ever exist which I think is how Toriyama will end it before walking away for good as that'll be more definitive than what we got in the manga while also leaving the door open for other adventures for future writers.

That leads into the quation of "should DB end or continue forever" and to that I say it depends. Let's get one thing out of the way, we're in the era of franchises so whatever makes $$$ is going to be turned into one, regardless of it being fit for it or not (the lion king being a great example of what not to turn into one). In terms of DB, it all depends on who's writing it and wheather or not they have stories worth telling. If someone can tell good stories that adds more to the lore and characters in a meaningful way (like what Toriyama's doing now) then I'm all for seeing it and if not then I'll simply act as if it doesn't exist (like Boruto).

Kunzait brought up a good ending that I never thought of before - Battle of Gods. It ends with Goku learning there are several other universes for him to explore all with powerful warriors. It's very open ended but thematically ties up Goku's story.

I've also thought of this as it goes back to what Roshi said about there always being someone stronger out there. Despite this being a good ending point, I'm still happy Toriyama continued as not only did it kick the door open for more stories but someone else would've if he didn't so it's better he did it himself.

[Toxin45]

I think the best one was the 23rd Tenkaichi as Goku was without a doubt the strongest man alive and at that point he reached his goal. Once the Saiyan arc rolled around and everything opened up it was hard to capture that definitive end feel again as even after the manga ended there was always the question of "what else is out there". Now that Toriyama's back we got an answer to that, there isn't anything left in U7 so now all eyes are on the other universes and Goku is the strongest among the 8 that fought in the tournament. Once Super's back I think Goku will go after the other 4 and truly become the strongest man to ever exist which I think is how Toriyama will end it before walking away for good as that'll be more definitive than what we got in the manga while also leaving the door open for other adventures for future writers.

That leads into the quation of "should DB end or continue forever" and to that I say it depends. Let's get one thing out of the way, we're in the era of franchises so whatever makes $$$ is going to be turned into one, regardless of it being fit for it or not (the lion king being a great example of what not to turn into one). In terms of DB, it all depends on who's writing it and wheather or not they have stories worth telling. If someone can tell good stories that adds more to the lore and characters in a meaningful way (like what Toriyama's doing now) then I'm all for seeing it and if not then I'll simply act as if it doesn't exist (like Boruto).

Kunzait brought up a good ending that I never thought of before - Battle of Gods. It ends with Goku learning there are several other universes for him to explore all with powerful warriors. It's very open ended but thematically ties up Goku's story.

I've also thought of this as it goes back to what Roshi said about there always being someone stronger out there. Despite this being a good ending point, I'm still happy Toriyama continued as not only did it kick the door open for more stories but someone else would've if he didn't so it's better he did it himself.

Personally i am okay with all of the endings but we still have some unanswered questions from super though and we don't have enough villains also the 4 other universes don't seem to have any fighterz since they have the highest mortal rating.

[sintzu]

Personally i am okay with all of the endings but we still have some unanswered questions from super though and we don't have enough villains also the 4 other universes don't seem to have any fighterz since they have the highest mortal rating.

The unanswered questions will most likely be answered once Super returns and some can even be answered in the movie. In terms of the 4 universes, having the highest mortal rating would imply they have strong fighters.

[Toxin45]

Personally i am okay with all of the endings but we still have some unanswered questions from super though and we don't have enough villains also the 4 other universes don't seem to have any fighterz since they have the highest mortal rating.

The unanswered questions will most likely be answered once Super returns and some can even be answered in the movie. In terms of the 4 universes, having the highest mortal rating would imply they have strong fighters.

But do we really need another multiversal tournament and also mortal rankings don't mean power levels dude

[sintzu]

But do we really need another multiversal tournament ?

mortal rankings don't mean power levels dude.

No, as there are other ways they can introduce those strong characters and have Goku surpass them.

Maybe not but surely there are some strong fighters there.

[Toxin45]

But do we really need another multiversal tournament ?

mortal rankings don't mean power levels dude.

No, as there are other ways they can introduce those strong characters and have Goku surpass them.

Maybe not but surely there are some strong fighters there.

I doubt that I think it won't end like that we need more villains from other universes I mean we only got Frieza and Zamasu it's time to get more actual villains this time.

[majinwarman]

But do we really need another multiversal tournament ?

mortal rankings don't mean power levels dude.

No, as there are other ways they can introduce those strong characters and have Goku surpass them.

Maybe not but surely there are some strong fighters there.

I doubt that I think it won't end like that we need more villains from other universes I mean we only got Frieza and Zamasu it's time to get more actual villains this time.

I agree. I want more villains like Goku Black and Zamasu.

[Forte224]

I don't know totally how I feel about the "No end in sight" thing. I'm in this weird place where Super and DB/DBZ are 2 completely separate entities to me. I never watch the original story and think about how one day Goku will become Super Saiyan Blue or how there will be an evil Goku or whatever. The original story is complete and the new stuff is its own thing. Therefore, I don't care that it's continuing and I watch it. Though I do wish it was of higher quality.

But as it stands, where Dragon Ball ends is where Dragon Ball ends in my mind. Episode 291 of Z or episode 444 or whatever you want to call it. It's complete, it's there, it's not going away. Everything else is extra credit that doesn't enhance or damper my view of the original story.

That said, had it ended with Freeza or Cell like some people wanted, I don't feel it would have been complete. Gohan's potential never accomplished much until he went SSJ2 and defeated Cell. That really felt full circle from the first time we saw him go off on Raditz. It felt right, I guess. And if it ended at Cell, I don't feel Vegeta's development would have wrapped up very well either. Finally getting the rematch with Goku (that they brought up over and over), finally admitting to having feelings for people other than himself, and finally admitting that Goku is #1 are things that I feel are crucial to his character.

[kemuri07]

But do we really need another multiversal tournament ?

mortal rankings don't mean power levels dude.

No, as there are other ways they can introduce those strong characters and have Goku surpass them.

Maybe not but surely there are some strong fighters there.

what other ways? Unless they significantly change the status quo, literally every arch will begin and end the same:

Villain starts shit
Goku and co (but let's be honest, it's only going to be Goku and Vegeta) take them on
Villain beats the shit out of the team
Goku and Vegeta dig deep, deep down into their infinite pool of potential and discover new forms
Villan gets beat.
The end.

The idea that people want DB to continue indefinitely is kind of crazy. Because what else can you do with this franchise? Doesn't matter if Goku meets new characters or worlds--it's literally going to be the same shit.

[ABED]

That's the sad thing. DB used to change things up a lot and after a while it got stuck in that formula.

[Dbzfan94]

I don't know totally how I feel about the "No end in sight" thing. I'm in this weird place where Super and DB/DBZ are 2 completely separate entities to me.

But as it stands, where Dragon Ball ends is where Dragon Ball ends in my mind. Episode 291 of Z or episode 444 or whatever you want to call it. It's complete, it's there, it's not going away. Everything else is extra credit that doesn't enhance or damper my view of the original story.

what other ways? Unless they significantly change the status quo, literally every arch will begin and end the same:

Villain starts shit
Goku and co (but let's be honest, it's only going to be Goku and Vegeta) take them on
Villain beats the shit out of the team
Goku and Vegeta dig deep, deep down into their infinite pool of potential and discover new forms
Villan gets beat.
The end.
The idea that people want DB to continue indefinitely is kind of crazy. Because what else can you do with this franchise? Doesn't matter if Goku meets new characters or worlds--it's literally going to be the same shit.

I agree with both of these. Super isnt canon to me and I just put it off to the side as some extra stuff.

Not big on the constant formula over and over just for $$ either. Idk how long they can go using that forumla. Maybe people will eventually burn out again like they did back in the 90s.

I dont want DB to end up like Marvel where theres countless reboots or AUS for the past 70 years or an anime like Case Closed where its literally 1000+ episodes

[Toxin45]

I don't know totally how I feel about the "No end in sight" thing. I'm in this weird place where Super and DB/DBZ are 2 completely separate entities to me.

But as it stands, where Dragon Ball ends is where Dragon Ball ends in my mind. Episode 291 of Z or episode 444 or whatever you want to call it. It's complete, it's there, it's not going away. Everything else is extra credit that doesn't enhance or damper my view of the original story.

what other ways? Unless they significantly change the status quo, literally every arch will begin and end the same:

Villain starts shit
Goku and co (but let's be honest, it's only going to be Goku and Vegeta) take them on
Villain beats the shit out of the team
Goku and Vegeta dig deep, deep down into their infinite pool of potential and discover new forms
Villan gets beat.
The end.
The idea that people want DB to continue indefinitely is kind of crazy. Because what else can you do with this franchise? Doesn't matter if Goku meets new characters or worlds--it's literally going to be the same shit.

I agree with both of these. Super isnt canon to me and I just put it off to the side as some extra stuff.

Not big on the constant formula over and over just for $$ either. Idk how long they can go using that forumla. Maybe people will eventually burn out again like they did back in the 90s.

Yet super's plotline was written by Toriyama.