Optimal Viewing Experience

[uzuni]

Something that I'm sure is revisited time and again is the question of the best possible viewing experience for Dragon Ball Z.

I think that can be divided into two categories:

1) Those who want to view it in its original Japanese OR dubbed against its Japanese soundtrack.

2) Those who want to view it dubbed against Faulconer's soundtrack.

I myself take place in the latter category. Unfortunately, I feel that the Japanese soundtrack doesn't at all mesh with the dubbing. I find it all a very cringe-worthy combination. Totally incompatible. And, while I one day may watch all of it in Japanese, as things stand, I'd like the nostalgic element intact.

Now, I'm sure that we can all agree on the Level Sets being the best possible option for the first 34 episodes. That being said, I'm sure that we can also all agree on the Dragon Boxes being the next best possible option for those in the former category.

But, for those of us in the second category, it's not that simple. So, I spent some time going through all of the North American releases, and after many side-by-side comparisons, here's what I came up with:

SEASON I: 1-34 (Level Sets), 35-39 (Blu-Ray)
SEASON II: Blu-Ray
SEASON III: Blu-Ray
SEASON IV: Orange Brick
SEASON V: Orange Brick
SEASON VI: Orange Brick
SEASON VII: Orange Brick
SEASON VIII: Orange Brick
SEASON IX: Orange Brick

While I know that it's an unpopular opinion to put the Orange Bricks above the Blu-Ray Season Sets, I genuinely believe that they look superior to the BRs mid-way through Season IV, and through to the end. All of the major problems cited on the OBs were from the first three seasons, and, around the time of the third Cha-La-Head-Cha-La opening (episode 118), I noticed that they take on a much darker, richer, color. Meanwhile, the BRs look much more "washed out" , with brighter colors, almost as if there is a blur, and, as a result, certain finer details are completely lost. Two-thirds of the BR seasons are, in my opinion, as bad as the first three OB seasons. The Cell Games in particular seem to look an absolutely travesty on Blu Ray.

Also, the only reason I didn't include the Dragon Boxes on my list for episodes 35-67, is because I still prefer Nathan Johnson's score to the Japanese.

My personal take after some research. Please feel free to change my mind. I'd like to hear as many opinions as possible.

[Robo4900]

I would submit to you that if you prefer watching dubbed and with the US replacement score, you should switch to the original DVD singles as soon as you reach the point in episode 67 that the original Saban dub reached. The modern redubs are a mess, the mixing on the modern releases is terrible, the voice filters were all left out by accident, and of course, the modern releases of the Z series are of generally poor picture quality and are cropped. The DVD singles are a strict upgrade for dubbed Z viewing, in my book.

Though, having said that, you skipped DB, and didn't mention GT or Super, which I consider to be far greater sins in a discussion like this.

The way I would suggest for optimal viewing depends on how much hassle you're willing to put yourself through, and whether you want to watch dubbed or subbed...

For dubbed with minimal hassle, you go with whatever release of OG DB is easiest for you, then go Kai, then go Super.

For subbed with minimal hassle, you would go with whatever OG DB release is easiest, then ideally go for the Z Dragon Boxes, but realistically would probably end up just picking up one of the crappy "Season" releases, then grab whatever GT release is most convenient.

For dubbed with hassle allowed, I would say you should watch the Blue Water dub of DB, as it's more faithful, better cast, and generally has a better feel to it, then I personally would say to watch the Ocean Z dubs, with the OG Funi dub from the DVD singles filling in for episodes 54-107, but if you prefer Funimation, stick with Funi for episodes 108+. Still go with the Saban/Ocean dub for the first 53, though. You're watching the pre-Kai dubs, so accuracy doesn't matter either way, it's all just about the better viewing experience. Funi Z 54+ were designed to be seen in the wake of Saban Z 1-53, so that's the way you should watch it if you're going this route, and the "Ultimate Uncut" dub kind of sucked anyway. For GT, once again, seek out and go with the Blue Water dub. Funi's GT dub is an utter pile of crap that should be avoided at all costs, and Blue Water's is, at the very least, a perfectly satisfactory alternative. During the run, though, I would suggest inserting the Pioneer "Dead Zone" dub between the Saiyan and Namek arcs. The Saban dub was structured to have a sort of season break between the two anyway, and it's basically the same cast, so this works pretty decently for flow. Though you could put that between episodes 53 and 54, if you preferred the casting consistency over story flow.

For subbed with hassle, you'll want to get the DVD singles of DB, import the Japanese Dragon Box Z for episodes 1-67, grab the cheapest English release you can get of it, and use the Dragon Radar fan project program to sync up subtitles, and go with the DVD singles from there on out for the rest of Z and all of GT. Insert the TV specials from the original DVD singles in their proper places in the run based on the original airing, and as with above, insert Z movie 1 between the Saiyan and Namek arcs, using whatever release is most convenient.

In all cases, the Australian DVD singles are preferred over the American ones, since the encoding was far better on Madman's discs, but if your player is R1-only, or the Australian ones are just not practical to obtain(As is often the case), the American discs will do fine. Also note that for UK viewers, DB's "Season" box sets, the most available release, actually use the Australian DVD masters, but have a fault present on them that was there for the first pressings of the Madman sets, which was never fixed for the UK pressings. This only affects subtitled viewing, and only for the Baba episodes, so it may be feasible to import the American or Australian DVD single of the Baba saga.

[linkdude20002001]

Like Robo said, but my opinion would be to watch ALL the singles. The first two seasons of Funimation’s dub won’t have Faulconer no matter which version you watch, so you mite as well watch it “as it was meant to be seen” dub-wise. I only watch the show in Japanese, BUT if I were to watch FUNi’s dub, I’d want the true experience. Same as I watcht it on Toonami. The orange bricks just don’t feel like FUNi DBZ at all. Even beyond the first two seasons, they still redid a ton: music placement is different, dialog is different, voices are different... People tend to forget, or not know and just assume it’s the same as on Toonami.

[VDenter]

The Dragon Boxes still seem like the best option. Rearranging the Next Episode Previews to play before the credits would basically give it a as close to the original intent as you can get. Unless you want to go the extra mile and color correct some of the footage and sync the Original Broadcast Audio. Regardless since the best option we have are still DVD quality i would recomend watching it on a CRT TV hooked up wirh component cables or RGB. I'm not a fan of the Level Sets personally. Hopefully Toie remasters the series properly in HD soon, since the Movies are seemingly getting a stellar release.

[Desassina]

• DB Manga
  • DB Anime
    • DB Movies 1, 2 & 3
  • Dragon Ball Z
    • DBZ Movies 1-13 & TV Specials
    • Dragon Ball GT
      • 10th Anniversary Movie & A Hero's Legacy
    • DB Kai
  • Battle of Gods & Resurrection of F
    • DB Super
      • DBS Manga

You read the manga, and let its style soak in before you watch the anime, so that you can feel the differences. Let this approach continue in every other piece of entertainment: DB Kai is now a subset of Dragon Ball Z so that you can see its original self before the adaptation; the 10th anniversary movie (Path to Power) is after GT so that you can get a feel for its decade; Battle of Gods and Resurrection of F are super sets of DB Super so that you can see where it's headed before the plunge.

[sintzu]

My favorite and only way to watch the Z portion of the manga is through Kai as it has a far superior dub to Z's and cuts out nearly half the filler.

[Robo4900]

Like Robo said, but my opinion would be to watch ALL the singles. The first two seasons of Funimation’s dub won’t have Faulconer no matter which version you watch, so you mite as well watch it “as it was meant to be seen” dub-wise. I only watch the show in Japanese, BUT if I were to watch FUNi’s dub, I’d want the true experience. Same as I watcht it on Toonami. The orange bricks just don’t feel like FUNi DBZ at all. Even beyond the first two seasons, they still redid a ton: music placement is different, dialog is different, voices are different... People tend to forget, or not know and just assume it’s the same as on Toonami.

Indeed. See what I said about the hassle dub route...

For dubbed with hassle allowed, I would say you should watch the Blue Water dub of DB, as it's more faithful, better cast, and generally has a better feel to it, then I personally would say to watch the Ocean Z dubs, with the OG Funi dub from the DVD singles filling in for episodes 54-107, but if you prefer Funimation, stick with Funi for episodes 108+. Still go with the Saban/Ocean dub for the first 53, though. You're watching the pre-Kai dubs, so accuracy doesn't matter either way, it's all just about the better viewing experience. Funi Z 54+ were designed to be seen in the wake of Saban Z 1-53, so that's the way you should watch it if you're going this route, and the "Ultimate Uncut" dub kind of sucked anyway. For GT, once again, seek out and go with the Blue Water dub. Funi's GT dub is an utter pile of crap that should be avoided at all costs, and Blue Water's is, at the very least, a perfectly satisfactory alternative. During the run, though, I would suggest inserting the Pioneer "Dead Zone" dub between the Saiyan and Namek arcs. The Saban dub was structured to have a sort of season break between the two anyway, and it's basically the same cast, so this works pretty decently for flow. Though you could put that between episodes 53 and 54, if you preferred the casting consistency over story flow.

[uzuni]

I'd like to thank you all for your contributions. What you've said has been duly noted!

It seems that the singles have been unanimously decided on as being the superior option. But I have to respectfully disagree with that.

I should first note that I myself am not new to the series. I've been a long-standing fan of a couple of decades, and have of course read the manga, which I own, in its entirety, repeatedly over the years. As for the anime, I've watched bits and pieces of just about every release. That is, the singles, the Orange Bricks, the Dragon Boxes, DB Kai, the Blu-ray Season Sets, Super on the streaming services, as well as the Blue and Green bricks of DB and DBGT.

My biggest issues with the singles (that I just recently watched), are these:

- the early dub sounds exceptionally amateur-ish, with special mention to Chris Sabat as Vegeta.
- the video quality looks like a converted VHS; hasn't aged well. Very dated appearance (which I don't always mind, and sometimes even prefer, depending on the series, but in this case, it doesn't compliment it).

Also, I think DB Kai is out of the question for me since it's missing Faulconer's score.

So, I suppose what I'm really looking to do is to compare the Orange Bricks to the Blu-rays. I've concluded that the BRs are superior until about episode 127 of Season IV, while the remainder looks better on the OBs.

I'd like to know your thoughts.

[linkdude20002001]

Well, my thots on it are: while, yes, the acting is terrible in the original version of the dub, really, the English dub is terrible either way; plus I don’t think Schemmel re-recorded any of his lines. The English dub is terrible, but it’s all we had for 11 years... Watching it again and again as it would air reruns constantly.

As for the video quality, well, I feel like the orange bricks and the BDs both look like garbage compared to the singles. Not that the singles lookt GOOD... But at least it’s not blurry or missing 20% of the picture. I feel like the remastered still has every flaw the singles had (since they didn’t have a good source) with more added on.

[KBABZ]

Also, I think DB Kai is out of the question for me since it's missing Faulconer's score.

You have been catered to! viewtopic.php?f=6&t=40195

[linkdude20002001]

Indeed. See what I said about the hassle dub route...

I agree with watching the Blue Water dub. The acting is kinda meh, but it's better (from what I remember) than their other dubs. And while the acting of FUNi's is better overall, it's brot down by the main two characters' acting, and, like you said, all the rewriting. Do we have the entire Blue Water dub online yet, tho? I know there's that one guy who had them all (and in flawless quality)...but he got scared by the legality of putting it on the internet. :/

Tho, I think the topic starter was only asking about DBZ. Maybe he doesn't care to count the unreleased dubs. Which makes sense. If you had to own DB and DBGT, you only get two choices each, and both and FUNi.

[uzuni]

I wonder if we could get some side-by-side screenshot comparisons of ALL the releases.

[Robo4900]

Tho, I think the topic starter was only asking about DBZ. Maybe he doesn't care to count the unreleased dubs. Which makes sense. If you had to own DB and DBGT, you only get two choices each, and both and FUNi.

The topic starter can ignore DB and GT all he likes for whatever reasons he likes, doesn't make him any less wrong for doing so.

Far as I'm concerned, watching Z and only Z is like watching/reading The Two Towers, and only The Two Towers, out of the Lord Of The Rings trilogy. Even if you're not a fan of GT or Super, you're still skipping the beginning part, and that's just ridiculous.

Anyway... BW > Funi, in both cases where that's the choice, IMO. Blue Water had some miscastings(Though their Bulma and Goku were leagues better Than Funi's...), but Funi's acting overall was generally much more inconsistent, and often much worse. Even when the actors were clearly putting in a lot more passion in the Funi dubs, they were rather misdirected, and often forced into some very unnatural choices for their portrayals, and while a lot of Blue Water's scripts for DB were based on Funi's scripts, they were generally a lot more faithful, and the GT scripts are just an absolute godsend compared to whatever the hell Funi's crew crapped out back in 2003, so while Blue Water's dub is definitely messy, it's less messy than Funi's, and to me, clearly the superior option.

I agree with watching the Blue Water dub. The acting is kinda meh, but it's better (from what I remember) than their other dubs. And while the acting of FUNi's is better overall, it's brot down by the main two characters' acting, and, like you said, all the rewriting. Do we have the entire Blue Water dub online yet, tho? I know there's that one guy who had them all (and in flawless quality)...but he got scared by the legality of putting it on the internet. :/

I think, for DB, the stuff available generally is that source with a lot of rather poor-quality episodes, and it's missing two, I believe. Hopefully those gaps are filled someday.
GT, I believe, has two sources, both complete, one's higher quality, but both have some poor episodes.

[uzuni]

I believe I've made my mind up with regards to Dragon Ball Z. Naturally, the same can be said for Dragon Ball Super.

The next question would be regarding Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball GT. Which is the superior release?

As I understand it, there've only been two separate English language releases for each:

DB - Singles (of which the first 13 episodes are edited), Blue Bricks
DBGT - Singles (which are missing the Japanese score), Green Bricks

What do you think?

[JohnnyCashKami]

Dragon Ball
Saga Sets (001-153)

Dragon Ball Z
Level 1.1, 1.2 and Level Xbox Video Episodes (035-039)
Dragon Box Z (040-291)

Dragon Ball GT
Single Sets (01-64, TV Special)

Movies
FUNi Remastered DB Movies 1, 3, 4 (4x3 AR)
TOEI Remastered DB Movie 2, DBZ Movies 1-13 (16x9 AR)

The Orange Bricks and the Season Blu-rays are shit so if those two are your only options, you might as well just be patient or try to get a good deal on the Dragon Box Z by FUNi.

Anyway, for absolute optimal view, it'd need to have the BA audios on it.

[uzuni]

Dragon Ball
Saga Sets (001-153)

Dragon Ball Z
Level 1.1, 1.2 and Level Xbox Video Episodes (035-039)
Dragon Box Z (040-291)

Dragon Ball GT
Single Sets (01-64, TV Special)

Movies
FUNi Remastered DB Movies 1, 3, 4 (4x3 AR)
TOEI Remastered DB Movie 2, DBZ Movies 1-13 (16x9 AR)

The Orange Bricks and the Season Blu-rays are shit so if those two are your only options, you might as well just be patient or try to get a good deal on the Dragon Box Z by FUNi.

Anyway, for absolute optimal view, it'd need to have the BA audios on it.

By Dragon Ball Saga Sets, I assume you mean the Singles. Are there any comparisons available between them and the blue bricks?

I don't think there's any way I'd be able to rip those episodes from Xbox, is there?

And BA audios?

[JohnnyCashKami]

By Dragon Ball Saga Sets, I assume you mean the Singles.

Yes, they are in singles format but usually called by the coined term 'Saga Sets' as it differentiates itself from the Blue Bricks and from the GT Single Sets.

Are there any comparisons available between them and the blue bricks?

I don't have a comparison to show you but someone here probably has. The Saga Sets look really nice and contains more picture while the Blue Bricks zoomed in which ended up cropping out footage unnecessarily although, it's still far better than the Orange Bricks. No contest there.

I own the Australian Madman release and it was re-released in two fatpacks:

Spoiler:

Buying the Madman version could be a tad pricey considering Australian imports aren't cheap but if you do want it, you could just get the Manga UK release which is the same thing but they released in five boxes (pretty much a clone of FUNimation's season covers with a few changes; yellow background, original logo, different character model).

Madman (2 Boxes)

Spoiler:

Manga UK (5 Boxes)

Spoiler:

Notes about this release:
- There was a DVD authoring error on the Fortuneteller Baba Saga Set although said mistakes *only* affected the Japanese version. The R1 version works flawlessly.

- It's an R4/R2 release so you may need to own a Region Free DVD Player or use a Laptop/PC connected to a TV to watch it (just pop in the disc and watch on K-Lite, CCCP, VLC or whatever your favorite Media Player is).

I don't think there's any way I'd be able to rip those episodes from Xbox, is there?

With a capture card but those episodes are available online in an uncompressed form, so it's as close as we'll get to their original quality.

And BA audios?

The Japanese TV audio files which sound crystal clear compared to the DVD audios, the DVD audio tracks are muffled and utter garbage in comparison (still, better than nothing). Since you just want to watch it with the FUNimation dub none of this really matters unless you eventually decide to experience the original Japanese version.

Just listen to this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7p7X1wd8uNc

[MasenkoHA]

You didn’t mention Dragon Ball

I find the whole Z dub just sort of fundamentally broken. The Johnson and Faulconer score are closer in style to each other than the Kikuchi music but they’re still pretty different from each other. Also you have Schemmel being at his best pre-Kai for the first 67 to suddenly turning into garbage the very next episode and staying that way until around Cell Games/Majin Buu. Also I can’t remember did Chris Sabat redub all his dialog in s3-4. I seem to remember there being an issue even with the remastered dialog he eventually goes from his perfected Vegeta voice to his “I’m not trying to do Brian Drummond anymore but you can still kind of hear the remnants of it from when I did” voice


Honestly, I just think watching the English dub with Japanese music is the way to go since at least you have the Kikuchi music unifying everything instead of drastically changing music and sound quality


I also think the Kikuchi music makes the bad dialog/acting in s3 easier to swallow but opinions may differ

[uzuni]

By Dragon Ball Saga Sets, I assume you mean the Singles.

Yes, they are in singles format but usually called by the coined term 'Saga Sets' as it differentiates itself from the Blue Bricks and from the GT Single Sets.

Are there any comparisons available between them and the blue bricks?

I don't have a comparison to show you but someone here probably has. The Saga Sets look really nice and contains more picture while the Blue Bricks zoomed in which ended up cropping out footage unnecessarily although, it's still far better than the Orange Bricks. No contest there.

I own the Australian Madman release and it was re-released in two fatpacks:

Spoiler:

Buying the Madman version could be a tad pricey considering Australian imports aren't cheap but if you do want it, you could just get the Manga UK release which is the same thing but they released in five boxes (pretty much a clone of FUNimation's season covers with a few changes; yellow background, original logo, different character model).

Madman (2 Boxes)

Spoiler:

Manga UK (5 Boxes)

Spoiler:

Notes about this release:
- There was a DVD authoring error on the Fortuneteller Baba Saga Set although said mistakes *only* affected the Japanese version. The R1 version works flawlessly.

- It's an R4/R2 release so you may need to own a Region Free DVD Player or use a Laptop/PC connected to a TV to watch it (just pop in the disc and watch on K-Lite, CCCP, VLC or whatever your favorite Media Player is).

I don't think there's any way I'd be able to rip those episodes from Xbox, is there?

With a capture card but those episodes are available online in an uncompressed form, so it's as close as we'll get to their original quality.

And BA audios?

The Japanese TV audio files which sound crystal clear compared to the DVD audios, the DVD audio tracks are muffled and utter garbage in comparison (still, better than nothing). Since you just want to watch it with the FUNimation dub none of this really matters unless you eventually decide to experience the original Japanese version.

Just listen to this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7p7X1wd8uNc

Ah, I see.

My next question would be, how does the video from the Australian Madman DVDs and/or the Manga UK DVDs compare to the American Saga Sets and Blue Bricks?

[uzuni]

You didn’t mention Dragon Ball

I find the whole Z dub just sort of fundamentally broken. The Johnson and Faulconer score are closer in style to each other than the Kikuchi music but they’re still pretty different from each other. Also you have Schemmel being at his best pre-Kai for the first 67 to suddenly turning into garbage the very next episode and staying that way until around Cell Games/Majin Buu. Also I can’t remember did Chris Sabat redub all his dialog in s3-4. I seem to remember there being an issue even with the remastered dialog he eventually goes from his perfected Vegeta voice to his “I’m not trying to do Brian Drummond anymore but you can still kind of hear the remnants of it from when I did” voice


Honestly, I just think watching the English dub with Japanese music is the way to go since at least you have the Kikuchi music unifying everything instead of drastically changing music and sound quality


I also think the Kikuchi music makes the bad dialog/acting in s3 easier to swallow but opinions may differ

Upon closer inspection, I realized that Nathan Johnson's score isn't at all what I grew up with, since it was specifically composed for the Uncut release and wasn't on the original broadcast, and have therefore decided to watch the Dragon Boxes after the Level Sets and until Faulconer's score (episodes 35 to 67).