Where would you rank DB among "Shounen" Anime

[Doctor.]

What people in the anime community refer to as deconstruction is pretty much a "good, innovative show that toys or shows the flaws in the conventions and tropes of the genre" which is a very loose definition considering it applies to just about every parody show, for instance.

Could you provide some examples on what makes HxH deconstruct tropes? I always see people allege it does, but never see an elaboration on why.

Again, I don't really agree that it 'deconstructs' anything but people often say that in reference to how the series handles certain tropes with more seriousness and alleged 'realism' than your average Shounen, stemming often from the series' darker tone and edgier nature. For instance, the Gon transformation in the Chimera Ant arc is often used as an example of 'deconstructing' the Goku-like archetype because of the fact that Gon's character takes a turn, as his seemingly unbreakable optimism is shattered and he threatens to kill an innocent person, and he gives in to his newfound power instead of regaining his senses; plus his transformation has serious physical and mental consequences for him in the future as he almost died and lost all ability to use Nen for the time being.

I don't really think the above example is all too different from Super Saiyan Goku on Namek with the exception that Goku eventuallu regains his senses (but that furthers his character arc, just as Gon losing himself furthers his), but that's a commonly cited example.

[Kunzait_83]

Tell me, what do you think of Saint Seiya, One Piece and JoJo's Bizarre Adventure?

Pardon me, I didn't see this till just now in my notifications.

I'm not that big on Saint Seiya one way or the other. Its not offensively terrible by any means, but its not anything that's ever especially grabbed my interest at any point in all these years. Its very much a typical children's action show - albeit one from Japan in the 80s, so it has MUCH more leeway in terms of content and creative direction than anything you'll ever find in the U.S. then or now. I can tolerate it if its on, it has its rare moments on occasion: but that's about the most good I can say for it.

A friend of mine has always described it as "Sailor Moon for boys", and I find that description to be fairly apt overall (one which also applies similarly to Yoroiden Samurai Troopers aka Ronin Warriors). If Dragon Ball were actually the direct Japanese equivalent of the type of "general kids action show" that FUNimation has touted it as in America via their dub (as opposed to Chinese-flavored Wuxia, which is something MUCH more specific in nature: even doubly more specific when its 80s and 90s-styled genre-hopping Wuxia), then it'd basically be Saint Seiya. Which to me is a LOT less interesting.

One Piece I've gone on about at IMMENSE length on here in numerous other threads going back years now. At this point, most regulars here well know my stance on it, so I won't relitigate it in gross detail.

In the briefest summary possible: I think One Piece out and out unwatchable, unreadable, unpalatable, vapid garbage. Its virtues in "world building" and "story planning" are GROSSLY over-valued and over-praised by its fanbase and are wholly undercut by its overwhelming flaws; namely that is that its so palpably saccharine and emotionally broken and immature that not a single, solitary microsecond of a moment in it rings as anything but hollow, empty, and desperate to ghoulishly claw at the reader/viewer's heartstrings and all but drag the tears from their eye sockets with a hydraulic excavator. And its visually/aesthetically ugly and gaudy as all hell to boot.

One Piece has ALWAYS come across as something written by and for emotionally stunted shut-ins desperate for something to vicariously fill a seemingly bottomless void of loneliness left in them by an abject lack of real life friends and real world relationships, as there isn't a single moment in it that rings for one microsecond as emotionally organic or authentic in terms of how flesh and blood human beings relate to one another on virtually ANY level. Every "touching" moment in OP (which is practically almost all that its made up of) always comes across as an emotionally crippled loner's overwrought, over-idealized, and over-romanticized approximation of what this whole "friendship" thing must feel like for those who have the actual real world experience with it that the author appears to have been desperately lacking in.

(Note: I don't presume to know a damn thing a bout Oda's actual real life experiences. I'm only describing what his artistic work seems to convey.)

JoJo's Bizarre Adventure is far from one of my all time definitive favorites or anything, but I've always liked it quite a bit; if for nothing else its abject, unapologetic, and unhinged weirdness (which, y'know, its not like the title doesn't make explicit exactly what you're in for here ). Its nothing deep or introspective or life changing or anything, but its "pure, unbridled fun" done well and done competently/enthusiastically, with a creative, talented, pop-culture overdosed author just going bugfuck crazy with his imagination, having the time of his life, and inviting the audience along for the ride with him.

There's no pretension, there's no unsettlingly creepy personal baggage of the author's to sift through and that gets in the way of or sabotages the work itself, and the sense of surreal strangeness and genuine love for all things rock and roll (VERY 80s rock and roll mind you) is palpably infectious throughout: JoJo is basically a supernaturally-tinged larger than life "rock opera" with a distinctively Japanese filter running through it. Really, where else would anything THIS offbeat and unusual and as fixated on Western pop culture and heavy metal come from BUT Japan?

Put it this way: if the band Queen had a globe-trotting paranormal action/adventure manga/anime epic based around their music and overall spirit and aesthetic, something VERY closely resembling JoJo's Bizarre Adventure would no doubt be the end result. And if you don't love Queen, you're someone who's not worth knowing as far as I'm concerned.

I think its ridiculously fucking random that something THIS unapologetically 80s and THIS unlike and dissimilar to most modern Shonen is suddenly getting its second breath of life among current day fans (god knows most of the current anime fanbase has likely never heard of or listened to half the bands and artists it constantly references): but fuck it, I'll still happily take it. Better something like this than another One Piece or My Hero Academia-esque blubberfest.

[Lord Beerus]

Tell me, what do you think of Saint Seiya, One Piece and JoJo's Bizarre Adventure?

Pardon me, I didn't see this till just now in my notifications.

I'm not that big on Saint Seiya one way or the other. Its not offensively terrible by any means, but its not anything that's ever especially grabbed my interest at any point in all these years. Its very much a typical children's action show - albeit one from Japan in the 80s, so it has MUCH more leeway in terms of content and creative direction than anything you'll ever find in the U.S. then or now. I can tolerate it if its on, it has its rare moments on occasion: but that's about the most good I can say for it.

A friend of mine has always described it as "Sailor Moon for boys", and I find that description to be fairly apt overall (one which also applies similarly to Yoroiden Samurai Troopers aka Ronin Warriors). If Dragon Ball were actually the direct Japanese equivalent of the type of "general kids action show" that FUNimation has touted it as in America via their dub (as opposed to Chinese-flavored Wuxia, which is something MUCH more specific in nature: even doubly more specific when its 80s and 90s-styled genre-hopping Wuxia), then it'd basically be Saint Seiya. Which to me is a LOT less interesting.

One Piece I've gone on about at IMMENSE length on here in numerous other threads going back years now. At this point, most regulars here well know my stance on it, so I won't relitigate it in gross detail.

In the briefest summary possible: I think One Piece out and out unwatchable, unreadable, unpalatable, vapid garbage. Its virtues in "world building" and "story planning" are GROSSLY over-valued and over-praised by its fanbase and are wholly undercut by its overwhelming flaws; namely that is that its so palpably saccharine and emotionally broken and immature that not a single, solitary microsecond of a moment in it rings as anything but hollow, empty, and desperate to ghoulishly claw at the reader/viewer's heartstrings. And its visually/aesthetically ugly and gaudy as all hell to boot.

One Piece has ALWAYS come across as something written by and for emotionally stunted shut-ins desperate for something to vicariously fill a seemingly bottomless void of loneliness in them left by an abject lack of real life friends and real world relationships, as there isn't a single moment in it that rings for one microsecond as emotionally organic or authentic in terms of how flesh and blood human beings relate to one another. Every "touching" moment in OP (which is practically almost all that its made up of) always comes across as an emotionally crippled loner's overwrought, over-idealized, and over-romanticized approximation of what this whole "friendship" thing must feel like for those who have the actual real world experience with it that the author appears to have been desperately lacking in.

(Note: I don't presume to know a damn thing a bout Oda's actual real life experiences. I'm only describing what his artistic work seems to convey.)

JoJo's Bizarre Adventure is far from one of my all time definitive favorites or anything, but I've always liked it quite a bit; if for nothing else its abject, unapologetic, and unhinged weirdness (which, y'know, its not like the title doesn't make explicit exactly what you're in for here ). Its nothing deep or introspective or life changing or anything, but its "pure, unbridled fun" done well and done competently/enthusiastically, with a creative, talented, pop-culture overdosed author just going bugfuck crazy with his imagination, having the time of his life, and inviting the audience along for the ride with him.

There's no pretension, there's no unsettlingly creepy personal baggage of the author's to sift through and that gets in the way of or sabotages the work itself, and the sense of surreal strangeness and genuine love for all things rock and roll (VERY 80s rock and roll mind you) is palpably infectious throughout: JoJo is basically a supernaturally-tinged larger than life "rock opera" with a distinctively Japanese filter running through it. Really, where else would anything THIS offbeat and unusual and as fixated on Western pop culture and heavy metal come from BUT Japan?

Put it this way: if the band Queen had a globe-trotting paranormal action/adventure manga/anime epic based around their music and overall spirit and aesthetic, something VERY closely resembling JoJo's Bizarre Adventure would no doubt be the end result. And if you don't love Queen, you're someone who's not worth knowing as far as I'm concerned.

I think its ridiculously fucking random that something THIS unapologetically 80s and THIS unlike and dissimilar to most modern Shonen is suddenly getting its second breath of life among current day fans (god knows most of the current anime fanbase has likely never heard of or listened to half the bands and artists it constantly references): but fuck it, I'll still happily take it. Better something like this than another One Piece or My Hero Academia-esque blubberfest.

I love JoJo's Bizarre Adventure, One Piece, My Hero Academia and Queen.

I guess that makes me the weird one.

[ricky84]

Tell me, what do you think of Saint Seiya, One Piece and JoJo's Bizarre Adventure?

Pardon me, I didn't see this till just now in my notifications.

I'm not that big on Saint Seiya one way or the other. Its not offensively terrible by any means, but its not anything that's ever especially grabbed my interest at any point in all these years. Its very much a typical children's action show - albeit one from Japan in the 80s, so it has MUCH more leeway in terms of content and creative direction than anything you'll ever find in the U.S. then or now. I can tolerate it if its on, it has its rare moments on occasion: but that's about the most good I can say for it.

A friend of mine has always described it as "Sailor Moon for boys", and I find that description to be fairly apt overall (one which also applies similarly to Yoroiden Samurai Troopers aka Ronin Warriors). If Dragon Ball were actually the direct Japanese equivalent of the type of "general kids action show" that FUNimation has touted it as in America via their dub (as opposed to Chinese-flavored Wuxia, which is something MUCH more specific in nature: even doubly more specific when its 80s and 90s-styled genre-hopping Wuxia), then it'd basically be Saint Seiya. Which to me is a LOT less interesting.

One Piece I've gone on about at IMMENSE length on here in numerous other threads going back years now. At this point, most regulars here well know my stance on it, so I won't relitigate it in gross detail.

In the briefest summary possible: I think One Piece out and out unwatchable, unreadable, unpalatable, vapid garbage. Its virtues in "world building" and "story planning" are GROSSLY over-valued and over-praised by its fanbase and are wholly undercut by its overwhelming flaws; namely that is that its so palpably saccharine and emotionally broken and immature that not a single, solitary microsecond of a moment in it rings as anything but hollow, empty, and desperate to ghoulishly claw at the reader/viewer's heartstrings and all but drag the tears from their eye sockets with a hydraulic excavator. And its visually/aesthetically ugly and gaudy as all hell to boot.

One Piece has ALWAYS come across as something written by and for emotionally stunted shut-ins desperate for something to vicariously fill a seemingly bottomless void of loneliness left in them by an abject lack of real life friends and real world relationships, as there isn't a single moment in it that rings for one microsecond as emotionally organic or authentic in terms of how flesh and blood human beings relate to one another on virtually ANY level. Every "touching" moment in OP (which is practically almost all that its made up of) always comes across as an emotionally crippled loner's overwrought, over-idealized, and over-romanticized approximation of what this whole "friendship" thing must feel like for those who have the actual real world experience with it that the author appears to have been desperately lacking in.

(Note: I don't presume to know a damn thing a bout Oda's actual real life experiences. I'm only describing what his artistic work seems to convey.)

JoJo's Bizarre Adventure is far from one of my all time definitive favorites or anything, but I've always liked it quite a bit; if for nothing else its abject, unapologetic, and unhinged weirdness (which, y'know, its not like the title doesn't make explicit exactly what you're in for here ). Its nothing deep or introspective or life changing or anything, but its "pure, unbridled fun" done well and done competently/enthusiastically, with a creative, talented, pop-culture overdosed author just going bugfuck crazy with his imagination, having the time of his life, and inviting the audience along for the ride with him.

There's no pretension, there's no unsettlingly creepy personal baggage of the author's to sift through and that gets in the way of or sabotages the work itself, and the sense of surreal strangeness and genuine love for all things rock and roll (VERY 80s rock and roll mind you) is palpably infectious throughout: JoJo is basically a supernaturally-tinged larger than life "rock opera" with a distinctively Japanese filter running through it. Really, where else would anything THIS offbeat and unusual and as fixated on Western pop culture and heavy metal come from BUT Japan?

Put it this way: if the band Queen had a globe-trotting paranormal action/adventure manga/anime epic based around their music and overall spirit and aesthetic, something VERY closely resembling JoJo's Bizarre Adventure would no doubt be the end result. And if you don't love Queen, you're someone who's not worth knowing as far as I'm concerned.

I think its ridiculously fucking random that something THIS unapologetically 80s and THIS unlike and dissimilar to most modern Shonen is suddenly getting its second breath of life among current day fans (god knows most of the current anime fanbase has likely never heard of or listened to half the bands and artists it constantly references): but fuck it, I'll still happily take it. Better something like this than another One Piece or My Hero Academia-esque blubberfest.

Interesting viewpoints, especially about One Piece.

[ricky84]

Also people who brought up Rurouni Kenshin.... It being written by a vile pedophile who while hypocritically preaching about the value of life in his work, has in the real world contributes to harming of it. That disqualifies it big time.

That's an ad-hominem fallacy. You can't judge the quality of a work based on the behavior of its maker (there is no connection). That's like saying Einstein was a pseudo-scientist if he was a serial killer.

[ekrolo2]

Also people who brought up Rurouni Kenshin.... It being written by a vile pedophile who while hypocritically preaching about the value of life in his work, has in the real world contributes to harming of it. That disqualifies it big time.

That's an ad-hominem fallacy. You can't judge the quality of a work based on the behavior of its maker (there is no connection). That's like saying Einstein was a pseudo-scientist if he was a serial killer.

Another one you could name is HP Lovecraft who's views on other races and such sounds like something out of a comic book supervillain monologue, doesn't make his work any less great.

[Ripper 30]

Unlike many people who say that "if you watch Other anime then you can't watch DB because of how badly aged it is", i never felt like that Personally. Dragon Ball Original Story (OG DB and Z) is on Top for me. it may not be the best but it's characters, Story, Plots, themes, unpredictability, humour, fights and execution are my Favourite. The adaption of Dragon Ball (First 16 Volumes) is Great, Dragon Ball Z (last 26 volumes) Adaptation is not the best or anywhere near the level of Hunter x Hunter or My Hero Academia but on its own Toei Animation did a good job with it. the Music, Voices and SFX are top notch.

If i have to Rank it among the Shounen Anime i have watched then it will be like :

1. Dragon Ball - (already described)

2. One Piece - Easily the Series with the Best World Building in Battle Shounen, awesome story, Characters, themes, Plots, lore, etc. it does a lot of things that DB does and in many ways it improves on many of those aspects. the Manga as whole has a much better pacing since Anime Post-Timeskip has been slow.

3. Fullmetal Alchemist Franchise - Awesome Characters, Lore, Alchemist, Military Setting, Story, Plot and creativity. i am not only talking about Brotherhood but FMA 2003 as well which has more personal stakes than Battle Shounen-esque Brotherhood. it's nowhere Similar to Dragon Ball so i don't think it's fair to compare to compare DB to it. The Animation and direction is beautiful for this franchise.

4. JoJo's Bizarre Adventure - This show is about nonsensical manly men making weird pose... lol jk. this is a fun Battle Shounen (except last few parts are Seinen) about a cast who have this journey and we see the most creative ideas anyone can think of in a fight, the way these diverse unconventional abilities are given to all the characters and how they outwit their opponents is fun to watch. also the characters and villains are freaking awesome and it's fun to see how they take them down. it's one of the best shounen for me. David Production is Great when it comes to JoJo and retains Araki's Charm from the manga.

5. Yuu Yuu Hakusho - it's very similar to DBZ as in the main character dies early then returns with Superpowers, then has this cast of friends who help in overcoming the odds and we see his journey. the characters and villains are awesome, the plot, lore and the commentary with humans and demon, etc. is awesome. this show has a lot of similarities with Dragon Ball, like Goku and Yusuke being similar, his fight with Toguro being an amalgamation of Goku vs Freeza and Gohan vs Cell, the Supporting Characters also having similarities with DB characters. though i think its ending to the last two arc wasn't cathartic to me and kinda rushed so DB takes the cake for me but in Anime it's better than Dragon Ball, it's first 66 episodes had some of the best animation at the time despite the use of old school cel animation and pacing was great overall.

6. Hunter x Hunter - if it was complete then i would have put it on a higher place. this is another awesome Adventure show about the protagonist and he also makes friends on his way on his quest to find his dad. but, this anime is more deeper, psychological and mature than most battle shounen and the way the fight is written is more sophisticated and complex. the character development for not only the main cast but the villain Meruem is fantastic. Chimera Ant arc is an example of how to explore multiple themes in one arc and talk about horrors of humanity, etc. Madhouse does amazing job with this one be it memorable music, good animation or colour choices.

7. Naruto - This is another DB inspired anime which also took many elements from Hunter X Hunter and Yuu Yuu Hakusho. Naruto is about the journey of The protagonist to become the Hokage and because of him being an outcast, him wanting to prove everyone wrong and bring to the village who also wants to save his friend from darkness. the Lore, setting, mythos, Chakra System, foreshadowings are very well done. for the most part it was doing well but in the war arc it became a mess and it stopped the progression of the story for what were mostly pointless, dragged out and at times boring fights that didn't contribute to the narrative or the actual characters fighting the way they should have and to make matters worse, an Anticlimactic Badly Written Shoehorned ending didn't helped much but overall i liked the show. Kishimoto is great at setting shit up but he's not great at executing most of it (Primary example is horrible execution of Rock Lee who was like the Gohan of Naruto except him not getting any moment to shine like Gohan got in Cell arc). Studio Pierrot did an Awesome Job on the Anime though, be it opening, ending or animation, it was always a consistent for the most part and expressive.

8 ) Deathnote - An intelligent high schooler who wants justice in the world and wants to be God of the new world he has created by destroying all evil. He plans on achieving this by using a strange supernatural book that fell from another realm onto earth. He tries to cleanse the world from all darkness but he runs into obstacles with the police and a strange mysterious detective known as 'L'. Madhouse does a Great job with it.

9) My Hero Academia - In a world populated with superhumans, the superhero-loving Izuku Midoriya is without power. However, after the Quirkless dreamer Izuku inherits the powers of the world's best superhero, All Might, his hopes of becoming the top hero are now possible. Once enrolled in the high school for heroes, U.A., Izuku soon discovers being a hero is much more complicated than it appears and it's fun seeing the challenges he has to overcome. the animation is top notch for this show as its done by Bones.


10) Shingeki no Kyojin - 2000 years from now, humans are nearly exterminated by titans. Titans are typically several stories tall, seem to have no intelligence, devour human beings and, worst of all, seem to do it for the pleasure rather than as a food source. A small percentage of humanity survived by walling themselves in a city protected by extremely high walls, even taller than the biggest of titans. Flash forward to the present and the city has not seen a titan in over 100 years. Teenage boy Eren and his foster sister Mikasa witness something horrific as the city walls are destroyed by a colossal titan that appears out of thin air. As the smaller titans flood the city, the two kids watch in horror as their mother is eaten alive. Eren vows that he will murder every single titan and take revenge for all of mankind. we get to see more secrets get discovered related to who is sending these titans, how are they created, etc.The Animation for this show is Great and High Budget stuff with a lot of emphasis on detailing.

[Vhanos]

YYH gets brought up a lot. The series is overrated. I'll take DBZ over it anytime.

[Ripper 30]

YYH gets brought up a lot. The series is overrated. I'll take DBZ over it anytime.

why do you think so? can you elaborate?

[EZsensei]

Tell me, what do you think of Saint Seiya, One Piece and JoJo's Bizarre Adventure?

Pardon me, I didn't see this till just now in my notifications.

I'm not that big on Saint Seiya one way or the other. Its not offensively terrible by any means, but its not anything that's ever especially grabbed my interest at any point in all these years. Its very much a typical children's action show - albeit one from Japan in the 80s, so it has MUCH more leeway in terms of content and creative direction than anything you'll ever find in the U.S. then or now. I can tolerate it if its on, it has its rare moments on occasion: but that's about the most good I can say for it.

A friend of mine has always described it as "Sailor Moon for boys", and I find that description to be fairly apt overall (one which also applies similarly to Yoroiden Samurai Troopers aka Ronin Warriors). If Dragon Ball were actually the direct Japanese equivalent of the type of "general kids action show" that FUNimation has touted it as in America via their dub (as opposed to Chinese-flavored Wuxia, which is something MUCH more specific in nature: even doubly more specific when its 80s and 90s-styled genre-hopping Wuxia), then it'd basically be Saint Seiya. Which to me is a LOT less interesting.

One Piece I've gone on about at IMMENSE length on here in numerous other threads going back years now. At this point, most regulars here well know my stance on it, so I won't relitigate it in gross detail.

In the briefest summary possible: I think One Piece out and out unwatchable, unreadable, unpalatable, vapid garbage. Its virtues in "world building" and "story planning" are GROSSLY over-valued and over-praised by its fanbase and are wholly undercut by its overwhelming flaws; namely that is that its so palpably saccharine and emotionally broken and immature that not a single, solitary microsecond of a moment in it rings as anything but hollow, empty, and desperate to ghoulishly claw at the reader/viewer's heartstrings and all but drag the tears from their eye sockets with a hydraulic excavator. And its visually/aesthetically ugly and gaudy as all hell to boot.

One Piece has ALWAYS come across as something written by and for emotionally stunted shut-ins desperate for something to vicariously fill a seemingly bottomless void of loneliness left in them by an abject lack of real life friends and real world relationships, as there isn't a single moment in it that rings for one microsecond as emotionally organic or authentic in terms of how flesh and blood human beings relate to one another on virtually ANY level. Every "touching" moment in OP (which is practically almost all that its made up of) always comes across as an emotionally crippled loner's overwrought, over-idealized, and over-romanticized approximation of what this whole "friendship" thing must feel like for those who have the actual real world experience with it that the author appears to have been desperately lacking in.

(Note: I don't presume to know a damn thing a bout Oda's actual real life experiences. I'm only describing what his artistic work seems to convey.)

JoJo's Bizarre Adventure is far from one of my all time definitive favorites or anything, but I've always liked it quite a bit; if for nothing else its abject, unapologetic, and unhinged weirdness (which, y'know, its not like the title doesn't make explicit exactly what you're in for here ). Its nothing deep or introspective or life changing or anything, but its "pure, unbridled fun" done well and done competently/enthusiastically, with a creative, talented, pop-culture overdosed author just going bugfuck crazy with his imagination, having the time of his life, and inviting the audience along for the ride with him.

There's no pretension, there's no unsettlingly creepy personal baggage of the author's to sift through and that gets in the way of or sabotages the work itself, and the sense of surreal strangeness and genuine love for all things rock and roll (VERY 80s rock and roll mind you) is palpably infectious throughout: JoJo is basically a supernaturally-tinged larger than life "rock opera" with a distinctively Japanese filter running through it. Really, where else would anything THIS offbeat and unusual and as fixated on Western pop culture and heavy metal come from BUT Japan?

Put it this way: if the band Queen had a globe-trotting paranormal action/adventure manga/anime epic based around their music and overall spirit and aesthetic, something VERY closely resembling JoJo's Bizarre Adventure would no doubt be the end result. And if you don't love Queen, you're someone who's not worth knowing as far as I'm concerned.

I think its ridiculously fucking random that something THIS unapologetically 80s and THIS unlike and dissimilar to most modern Shonen is suddenly getting its second breath of life among current day fans (god knows most of the current anime fanbase has likely never heard of or listened to half the bands and artists it constantly references): but fuck it, I'll still happily take it. Better something like this than another One Piece or My Hero Academia-esque blubberfest.

Hey, could you link your elaborated version about one piece? I would really love to read your complete thoughts which while watching the show I really connected with what you're saying so far.

[Kunzait_83]

Hey, could you link your elaborated version about one piece? I would really love to read your complete thoughts which while watching the show I really connected with what you're saying so far.

This oughta do:

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=42070&p=1502094#p1502094

[Kurakaio]

YYH gets brought up a lot. The series is overrated. I'll take DBZ over it anytime.

why do you think so? can you elaborate?

I don't know about him, but while I like Yu Yu hakusho, the Toguro fight is very overrated. Forever I've seen this fight praised everywhere, but it's literally just:
Yusuke powers up
Toguro powers up
Rinse repeat a couple more times. Yes, there was a bunch of stuff going on from a narrative and emotional standpoint, but the fight itself left very little to be desired. I found the arc with Sensui much more interesting. The series ending being pretty rushed definitely didn't help either.

Honestly HunterxHunter was a step up from YYH in every way.

[ABED]

Sure, when you oversimplify everything you can make anything sound bad.

[Cursed Lemon]

As always, "best" and "greatest" diverge.

Is DBZ the "best" shonen out there? Goodness no. DB is corny as all get-out, grossly misuses a lot of its characters, is littered with cheap deus ex machina, has wildly varying animation quality (I mean wildly), and doesn't make a lick of sense in many places.

Is it the "greatest"? Hell yes it is.

[Subarashii]

I'd put HxH, JoJo and FMAB at the top, but DB is definitely in a high spot as well.
Now, whether it's because of nostalgia or not, it's a fun show in the end and I don't see it as something deep although Super added more depth in it with the Gods&Angels.

[Ripper 30]

YYH gets brought up a lot. The series is overrated. I'll take DBZ over it anytime.

why do you think so? can you elaborate?

I don't know about him, but while I like Yu Yu hakusho, the Toguro fight is very overrated. Forever I've seen this fight praised everywhere, but it's literally just:
Yusuke powers up
Toguro powers up
Rinse repeat a couple more times. Yes, there was a bunch of stuff going on from a narrative and emotional standpoint, but the fight itself left very little to be desired. I found the arc with Sensui much more interesting. The series ending being pretty rushed definitely didn't help either.

Honestly HunterxHunter was a step up from YYH in every way.

agreed, a lot of YYH mistakes fly under the radar of people. everyone is like "yyh goat masterpiece, way better than No-Plot Ball Z" or bitching about YYH not being worldwide phenomenon because of DBZ, like seriously?
it gave DBZ a run for its money in Original run and did Great in US too, where's the problem?
most overlook the plotholes or bad writing in Chapter Black arc ending part or bad writing in it in general.

Sure, when you oversimplify everything you can make anything sound bad.

that applies more to DBZ than YYH . whenever someone talks about Any other anime like Naruto, One Piece or Hunter x Hunter they talk about Plot, Story and characters. with dbz they are like "Retarded screaming, no plot, plotholes and boring Main character with zero development".