Discussion, generally of an in-universe nature, regarding any aspect of the franchise (including movies, spin-offs, etc.) such as: techniques, character relationships, internal back-history, its universe, and more.
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RandomGuy96
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by RandomGuy96 » Tue Jan 31, 2017 5:23 am
This is Puyi: child of the Qing dynasty, ruler of the Japanese puppet state of Manchukuo, and the last Emperor of China:
With Tao Paipai being a stereotypical Qing dynasty Chinese assassin, and Tenshinhan seemingly being Chinese as well, was Chaozu's outfit and position in "Mystical Adventure" supposed to be a reference to this child emperor of the Qing? Or Qing emperors in general?
Discuss.
Last edited by
RandomGuy96 on Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.
The Monkey King wrote:RandomGuy96 wrote:dbgtFO wrote:
Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
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Nejishiki
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by Nejishiki » Tue Jan 31, 2017 10:41 am
Chiaotzu's primary inspiration is based on the Jiangshi. With that already in mind, I wouldn't put it past Dragon Ball's anime staff if they adapted additional Chinese history into their stories. Dragon Ball Movie 03 seems to run with the idea of Chiaotzu resembling an emperor by directly altering him as such. I think Toriyama is aware of these extensions, too but I somehow doubt he went further with the imagery beyond creating his own version of a vampire figure (in everything but name & functions). It's something interesting though! Maybe Kunzait_83 has something to add with his knowledge?
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floofychan333
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by floofychan333 » Tue Jan 31, 2017 4:38 pm
The whole Mifan empire was probably based on old China.
"All of you. All of you must have KILL all the SEASONS!" -Dough (Tenshinhan), Speedy Dub of Movie 9.
"My opinion of Norihito's Sumitomo's new score is... well, very mixed. The stuff that's good is pretty darn good, but the stuff that's bad makes elevator music sound like Jerry freaking Goldsmith." -Kenisu
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RandomGuy96
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by RandomGuy96 » Tue Jan 31, 2017 7:47 pm
Nejishiki wrote:Chiaotzu's primary inspiration is based on the Jiangshi. With that already in mind, I wouldn't put it past Dragon Ball's anime staff if they adapted additional Chinese history into their stories. Dragon Ball Movie 03 seems to run with the idea of Chiaotzu resembling an emperor by directly altering him as such. I think Toriyama is aware of these extensions, too but I somehow doubt he went further with the imagery beyond creating his own version of a vampire figure (in everything but name & functions). It's something interesting though! Maybe Kunzait_83 has something to add with his knowledge?
Good idea.
Kunzait_83 wrote:JulieYBM wrote:I wish the third film's storyline had continued. It would've been awesome seeing Chaozu struggle with basically being a figurehead. That would've been the best path laid out for him in official works to follow.
I assume you mean continued in other out-of-continuity DB films. I love the 3rd DB movie dearly, but its version of Chaozu as an emperor is very much at odds with where he's at in the actual manga/core storyline.
But yeah, I definitely wouldn't have minded another movie in the same vein as DB 3.
Paging Kunzait.
The Monkey King wrote:RandomGuy96 wrote:dbgtFO wrote:
Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
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Kunzait_83
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by Kunzait_83 » Tue Jan 31, 2017 8:34 pm
Huh, neat notification system this site now has.
Anyhow, Chaozu being used in the manner that he was in DB Movie 3 specifically is almost undoubtedly derived in some part from the Qing child Emperor. But that would seem to have been a (rather cool) choice/extrapolation on Toei's end for just that specific movie alone. His initial conception from Toriyama though, since he was never at any point in his manga origins depicted as an Emperor (quite the contrary, he debuts as a martial arts assassin, not much different from Tenshinhan and Tao Pai Pai), has his appearance based simply on Jiangshi (Chinese Hopping Vampires), supernatural creatures who were always VERY popular folkloric figures across Wuxia overall, but PARTICULARLY even doubly more so in the 80s where Jiangshi were suddenly enjoying a TREMENDOUS resurgence in Wuxia media and widespread popularity with horror-Wuxia films like Spooky Encounters and the Mr. Vampire franchise reigniting interest in the creepy little bastards.
In the mid through late 80s (the time period in which Chaozu was first created and appeared in the DB manga), Jiangshi were more visibly popular than ever across Wuxia media, so it should come as no surprise whatsoever that Toriyama rode even
that particular trend in the genre (as he did a ton of others) via designing a then-major DB character based on their distinctive/iconic appearance.
I'm not kidding: Jiangshi-centric Wuxia-horror/comedy films were a titanically MASSIVE thing across Asia throughout the latter half of the 1980s, and Jiangshi suddenly showing up all overt the place in Wuxia films and shows suddenly became a heavily marketable sure-fire way to attain an extra bump in notoriety. I cannot stress how much of a thing this was at the time: Mr. Vampire in particular practically rivals the Friday the 13th and Police Academy films in 80s American film in terms of sheer ludicrous amount of sequels and longevity. In 1980s Asian popular culture, Jiangshi kinda took over the world for a spell there. America had Gremlins and Critters and the like: Asian territories had Jiangshi.http://80s90sdragonballart.tumblr.com/
Kunzait's Wuxia Thread
Journey to the West, chapter 26 wrote:The strong man will meet someone stronger still:
Come to naught at last he surely will!
Zephyr wrote:And that's to say nothing of how pretty much impossible it is to capture what made the original run of the series so great. I'm in the generation of fans that started with Toonami, so I totally empathize with the feeling of having "missed the party", experiencing disappointment, and wanting to experience it myself. But I can't, that's how life is. Time is a bitch. The party is over. Kageyama, Kikuchi, and Maeda are off the sauce now; Yanami almost OD'd; Yamamoto got arrested; Toriyama's not going to light trash cans on fire and hang from the chandelier anymore. We can't get the band back together, and even if we could, everyone's either old, in poor health, or calmed way the fuck down. Best we're going to get, and are getting, is a party that's almost entirely devoid of the magic that made the original one so awesome that we even want more.
Kamiccolo9 wrote:It grinds my gears that people get "outraged" over any of this stuff. It's a fucking cartoon. If you are that determined to be angry about something, get off the internet and make a stand for something that actually matters.
Rocketman wrote:"Shonen" basically means "stupid sentimental shit" anyway, so it's ok to be anti-shonen.
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RandomGuy96
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by RandomGuy96 » Tue Jan 31, 2017 8:52 pm
Thank you Kunzait. Pretty interesting stuff.
The Monkey King wrote:RandomGuy96 wrote:dbgtFO wrote:
Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
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Kid Buu
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by Kid Buu » Wed Feb 01, 2017 12:50 am
It seems like a lot of the characters were based on old Asian mythology. Would be interesting if we could culminate a guide.
Rocketman wrote:"Shonen" basically means "stupid sentimental shit" anyway, so it's ok to be anti-shonen.
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JulieYBM
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by JulieYBM » Wed Feb 01, 2017 3:33 am
Wow, this is funny. The past two days I've been at the China story arc of
Code Geass: Hangyaku no Lelouch R2 where the high eunuchs make a deal with Britania, trading the child empress in a political marriage to the much, much older first prince of Britania in exchange for titles of nobility, while her loyal guard (voiced by Midorikawa Hikaru) tries everything he can to protect her and the empire. For this thread to be revived is a hell of a trip. It's actually a cool idea of what could have been done with Dragon Ball Movie #3 if it was longer.
[spoiler]
[/spoiler]
She/Her 
