The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[LowRyder2005]

- SSJ Kale & Caulifa vs SSJ Goku and SSJ Gohan(Buu saga)
- SSJ Ikari Trunks vs Berserk Kale
- SSJ2 Caulifa vs SSJ2 Trunks
- Super 17(GT) vs 17(DBS)
- SSJ4 Goku vs SSJ3 Goku(DBS)

Normal Zamasu(No immortality) runs the Buu gauntlet.
1.) Good Buu
2.) Fat Buu
3.) Kid Buu
4.) Uub
5.) Super Buu
6.) Buuhan
7.) Majuub(GT)

- The Buu saga warriors should win with medium-low difficulty... no, scratch that. I'm not completely sure: it's really dependant on what you make of some of Vegeta's assertions and Calulifla's fights with Goku and Napapa. I think there might be room for some contradictions arising.
- I'm conflicted. I was in the "Kale should be SSB+ tier" camp (and I might still be, depending on what happens in the future episodes) - regardless of what I thought is mostly the fans' backlash - but I have to admit that there have been many, fairly compelling counter-arguments. I'll hand it to Super Saiyan Rage Trunks and by a longshot (if I'm to follow the general idea Kale is around SS2 or 3).
- I feel like Trunks was clearly supposed to be equal to Goku, whose gains may be negligible, at the time of that particular arc. With Caulifla I think there's the much more distinct possibility Goku might ultimately be far stronger than what he appears to be. Trunks.
- Super #17 very, very, decisively, for more or rather very similar reasons.
- Super Saiyan 4. I have him weaker than Super Saiyan God, but I don't see neither BOG or current Super Saiyan 3 Goku laying a finger on him.

I have current base Goku at around two times stronger than his Buu saga self (with the current episode heavily factoring in this, as #18's strength apparently surpasses base Goku's). Super Saiyan 2 Goku at the time of the Future Trunks Arc ends therefore stronger than his Super Saiyan 2 from the Buu arc, but not by much, which would - sadly - mean that Good Buu could already be plenty to outlast the technically better fighter.

[ZombieVito]

[
I have current base Goku at around two times stronger than his Buu saga self (with the current episode heavily factoring in this, as #18's strength apparently surpasses base Goku's).

I would really like for you to put this into numbers because I find it impossible at the moment considering how much they have progressed since the BoG arc. Not only they trained with Whis but they also trained 3 years in the RoSaT (Vegeta even more) and Goku had "anger" power ups during the Goku Black arc.

New fights:

Current Kuririn, Tenshinhan, Roshi vs Freeza [Final Form; 10% FP; Namek arc].
Current 18 vs 17 [Android arc].
Slim Boo vs Super Boo.
Kale [Berserker] vs SSG Goku.
SSB Vegetto [No time limit] vs Beerus.

[supercat]

- SSJ Kale & Caulifa vs SSJ Goku and SSJ Gohan(Buu saga)
- SSJ Ikari Trunks vs Berserk Kale
- SSJ2 Caulifa vs SSJ2 Trunks
- Super 17(GT) vs 17(DBS)
- SSJ4 Goku vs SSJ3 Goku(DBS)

Normal Zamasu(No immortality) runs the Buu gauntlet.
1.) Good Buu
2.) Fat Buu
3.) Kid Buu
4.) Uub
5.) Super Buu
6.) Buuhan
7.) Majuub(GT)

Without knowing Kale's full potential, it's really hard to tell if she could take someone like Trunks down. They seem pretty close to one another though.

Trunks wins by a good margin.

Android 17 is SSB-tier which is leagues stronger than SSJ3 Goku, who is presumably 8x stronger than the ritually powered up Goku that fought Beerus. Super 17 could be close to that level as well, but more than likely isn't. Android 17 wins after a good fight.

Zamasu one-shots everyone on that list all at once with a fraction of his power. Anyone who could tangle with SSB, let alone land hits on said level of power is far far above any form of Buu. That overrated blob is garbage tier at this point.

[LowRyder2005]

[
I have current base Goku at around two times stronger than his Buu saga self (with the current episode heavily factoring in this, as #18's strength apparently surpasses base Goku's).

I would really like for you to put this into numbers because I find it impossible at the moment considering how much they have progressed since the BoG arc. Not only they trained with Whis but they also trained 3 years in the RoSaT (Vegeta even more) and Goku had "anger" power ups during the Goku Black arc.

New fights:

Current Kuririn, Tenshinhan, Roshi vs Freeza [Final Form; 10% FP; Namek arc].
Current 18 vs 17 [Android arc].
Slim Boo vs Super Boo.
Kale [Berserker] vs SSG Goku.
SSB Vegetto [No time limit] vs Beerus.

Truth be told, I did have him fairly higher until this last episode. However, I also have #18 around the 300/400 millions mark and I don't really believe she's supposed to be anything but marginally stronger than however strong she was supposed to be in Z. She just indulged in some light training with Krillin, after all. The show made ended up making it clear that she should have physical strength that apparently dwarves Goku's, so there's that.

Regarding the Black arc, I admit I don't remember every single time Goku had power-ups of the sort anime, but I'm not fond of the idea they are supposed to persist. In my book, both Goku and Vegeta just doubled their base strength through Whis' training (which should be enough to warrant the "you're unrecognizable" claim, on Goku's part) and the other increases through their training sessions ultimately are really neglible. My Goku is precisely around 2.5 times his power before the events of BOG took place - not counting his Beyond God base, that is.

[Noah]

Strongest character Caulifla can beat? (Base, SSJ, SSJ2)

[dragonball0900]

I would like to know this:

Current Goku (no Kaioken allowed) vs Current Vegeta

I ask this because if I remember correctly, Vegeta trained in the ROSAT and was stronger than Rose Black, who was stronger than Goku. Goku was a bit rusty in one episode, while Vegeta kept training again in the ROSAT as we saw in the past few episodes before the Tournament. What if these two fight at this time of the series?

[ZombieVito]

Truth be told, I did have him fairly higher until this last episode. However, I also have #18 around the 300/400 millions mark and I don't really believe she's supposed to be anything but marginally stronger than however strong she was supposed to be in Z. She just indulged in some light training with Krillin, after all. The show made ended up making it clear that she should have physical strength that apparently dwarves Goku's, so there's that.

Regarding the Black arc, I admit I don't remember every single time Goku had power-ups of the sort anime, but I'm not fond of the idea they are supposed to persist. In my book, both Goku and Vegeta just doubled their base strength through Whis' training (which should be enough to warrant the "you're unrecognizable" claim, on Goku's part) and the other increases through their training sessions ultimately are really neglible. My Goku is precisely around 2.5 times his power before the events of BOG took place - not counting his Beyond God base, that is.

I'm having trouble getting Goku and vegeta under her by a good amount. Just look how many times they got stronger.

Training with Whis.
Training 3 years in the RoSaT.
In the Poutafu arc Goku confirmed they got stronger.
Goku got an anger power up to beat Black for a few moments. Black then powers up and beats Goku.
That Black then gets beat by Vegeta who trains in the RoSaT. Then Black power up yet again.
After that arc they train for a bit so they should get a little stronger. Goku catches up to Vegeta.
This arc Vegeta trains yet again in the RoSaT.

The best I could do is a 3 times increase (300 million) compared to 18's (360 million). Maybe Kuririn got that much stronger because he trained with 18 and that also increased her power by some amount after episode 76.

[Zamasu55]

- SSJ Kale & Caulifa vs SSJ Goku and SSJ Gohan(Buu saga)
- SSJ Ikari Trunks vs Berserk Kale
- SSJ2 Caulifa vs SSJ2 Trunks
- Super 17(GT) vs 17(DBS)
- SSJ4 Goku vs SSJ3 Goku(DBS)

Normal Zamasu(No immortality) runs the Buu gauntlet.
1.) Good Buu
2.) Fat Buu
3.) Kid Buu
4.) Uub
5.) Super Buu
6.) Buuhan
7.) Majuub(GT)

1. Caulifa and Kale.
2. I know Super doesn't make sense, but we have to rely on Kale's fight with Goku. She destroyed him in his SsjB form, could Trunks do the same? No. She wins.
3. Even fight, could go either way.
4. 17 wins, he's god tier and I think there are only a few characters who're in that realm of power in GT, and Super 17 isn't one of those.
5. Ssj4 Goku one-shots.

Present Zamasu stops at Super Buu, who totally outclasses him.
Future Zamasu clears even without immortality.

[dragon boss z]

- SSJ Kale & Caulifa vs SSJ Goku and SSJ Gohan(Buu saga)
- SSJ Ikari Trunks vs Berserk Kale

Could go either way

- SSJ2 Caulifa vs SSJ2 Trunks

Trunks

- Super 17(GT) vs 17(DBS)

Super 17. 17 (DBS) is massively overrated.

- SSJ4 Goku vs SSJ3 Goku(DBS)

ssj4

Normal Zamasu(No immortality) runs the Buu gauntlet.
1.) Good Buu
2.) Fat Buu
3.) Kid Buu
4.) Uub
5.) Super Buu
6.) Buuhan
7.) Majuub(GT)

It's hard to pinpoint his power. Tbh I could see him going down at 1 or even clearing. He is portrayed as weaker than ssj2 Trunks by a little bit, (it is outright stated in the manga) so it depends where you put him.

[dragon boss z]

- SSJ Kale & Caulifa vs SSJ Goku and SSJ Gohan(Buu saga)
- SSJ Ikari Trunks vs Berserk Kale
- SSJ2 Caulifa vs SSJ2 Trunks
- Super 17(GT) vs 17(DBS)
- SSJ4 Goku vs SSJ3 Goku(DBS)

- I'd give this to Kale and Caulifla but it would be a close fight
- SSJ Ikari Trunks power is really ambiguous. The best SSJ Ikari Trunks could do was to hold his own against SSJR Goku Black and/or Zamasu but Goku Black kept getting stronger with every fight so whether he could match that is not really conclusive. Especially since we see that Merged Zamasu sent SSJ Ikari Trunks flying with one punch and SSJ Ikari Trunks was desperately trying to prevent himself from getting killing by Bulked Merged Zamasu. We see Berserk Kale walk through a Kamehameha from SSJB Goku, but despite that SSJB wasn't using all of his power given he stated he would used "a little more power" after the initial attempt failed to even stun Berserk Kale. Of course, by this stage, Goku has grown stronger from the events of the Future Trunks arc. I'm not sure how to call this. My brain tell me Berserk Kale would wipe the floor with SSJ Ikari Trunks, but my gut says otherwise.
- Caulifla get stomped into the dirt. Goku needed SSJ3 to take care of SSJ2 Future Trunks.
- The strength is really unclear given the nature of his fight with SSJB Goku. But characters were reserving strength but to how much of a degree they were is uncertain. I guess I gotta with Android 17 because Goku felt he needed to use SSJB.
- SSJ3 Goku gets ground into the dirt. SSJ3 is strong but not that strong.

- SSJ Kale & Caulifa vs SSJ Goku and SSJ Gohan(Buu saga)
- SSJ Ikari Trunks vs Berserk Kale
- SSJ2 Caulifa vs SSJ2 Trunks
- Super 17(GT) vs 17(DBS)
- SSJ4 Goku vs SSJ3 Goku(DBS)

1. Caulifa and Kale.
2. I know Super doesn't make sense, but we have to rely on Kale's fight with Goku. She destroyed him in his SsjB form, could Trunks do the same? No. She wins.
3. Even fight, could go either way.
4. 17 wins, he's god tier and I think there are only a few characters who're in that realm of power in GT, and Super 17 isn't one of those.
5. Ssj4 Goku one-shots.

Present Zamasu stops at Super Buu, who totally outclasses him.
Future Zamasu clears even without immortality.

You guys are contradicting yourselves. You say ssj4 >>>ssj3 (super), but you say 17 (super)>>>super 17 because 17 made Goku go Blue. Super 17 beat ssj3 Goku and made him go ssj4. So that means if you think ssj4>>>ssj3(super) it means you would think Goku would have to go SSB against Super 17.

[Dragonballgod19]

- SSJ Kale & Caulifa vs SSJ Goku and SSJ Gohan(Buu saga)
- SSJ Ikari Trunks vs Berserk Kale
- SSJ2 Caulifa vs SSJ2 Trunks
- Super 17(GT) vs 17(DBS)
- SSJ4 Goku vs SSJ3 Goku(DBS)

- I'd give this to Kale and Caulifla but it would be a close fight
- SSJ Ikari Trunks power is really ambiguous. The best SSJ Ikari Trunks could do was to hold his own against SSJR Goku Black and/or Zamasu but Goku Black kept getting stronger with every fight so whether he could match that is not really conclusive. Especially since we see that Merged Zamasu sent SSJ Ikari Trunks flying with one punch and SSJ Ikari Trunks was desperately trying to prevent himself from getting killing by Bulked Merged Zamasu. We see Berserk Kale walk through a Kamehameha from SSJB Goku, but despite that SSJB wasn't using all of his power given he stated he would used "a little more power" after the initial attempt failed to even stun Berserk Kale. Of course, by this stage, Goku has grown stronger from the events of the Future Trunks arc. I'm not sure how to call this. My brain tell me Berserk Kale would wipe the floor with SSJ Ikari Trunks, but my gut says otherwise.
- Caulifla get stomped into the dirt. Goku needed SSJ3 to take care of SSJ2 Future Trunks.
- The strength is really unclear given the nature of his fight with SSJB Goku. But characters were reserving strength but to how much of a degree they were is uncertain. I guess I gotta with Android 17 because Goku felt he needed to use SSJB.
- SSJ3 Goku gets ground into the dirt. SSJ3 is strong but not that strong.

- SSJ Kale & Caulifa vs SSJ Goku and SSJ Gohan(Buu saga)
- SSJ Ikari Trunks vs Berserk Kale
- SSJ2 Caulifa vs SSJ2 Trunks
- Super 17(GT) vs 17(DBS)
- SSJ4 Goku vs SSJ3 Goku(DBS)

1. Caulifa and Kale.
2. I know Super doesn't make sense, but we have to rely on Kale's fight with Goku. She destroyed him in his SsjB form, could Trunks do the same? No. She wins.
3. Even fight, could go either way.
4. 17 wins, he's god tier and I think there are only a few characters who're in that realm of power in GT, and Super 17 isn't one of those.
5. Ssj4 Goku one-shots.

Present Zamasu stops at Super Buu, who totally outclasses him.
Future Zamasu clears even without immortality.

You guys are contradicting yourselves. You say ssj4 >>>ssj3 (super), but you say 17 (super)>>>super 17 because 17 made Goku go Blue. Super 17 beat ssj3 Goku and made him go ssj4. So that means if you think ssj4>>>ssj3(super) it means you would think Goku would have to go SSB against Super 17.

Actually one of the dbs writers on twitter says otherwise 17 didn't forced goku into Ssb he does that to test them like against krillin

[dragon boss z]

Actually one of the dbs writers on twitter says otherwise 17 didn't forced goku into Ssb he does that to test them like against krillin

I know. I don't think 17 is even close to blue level, and I think episode 102 will probably prove that. But I was just showing that even if 17 was Blue level, there arguments were conflicting with each other.

[Hellspawn28]

SSj2 Caulifa vs. Buuhan

Rules:

- No candy beam
- No outside help
- No absorbing

Who wins? If it's too one sided, let SSj2 Caulifa fight against Super Buu or Kid Buu instead.

[dragon boss z]

SSj2 Caulifa vs. Buuhan

Rules:

- No candy beam
- No outside help
- No absorbing

Who wins? If it's too one sided, let SSj2 Caulifa fight against Super Buu or Kid Buu instead.

I'm going with Buuhan for now.

[Berserker1921]

1. Ssj Blue Vegito (no kaioken, flying, and instant transmission, 30 mins) vs Toppo, Frieza, Hit, and Black?

2. Ssj god Broly (mini movie version) vs fused Zamasu (no immortality)?

3. Vegito (cell games) vs Fat Buu (buu saga)?

4. Super Buu vs Black (before ssj rose and getting the boost)?

[dragon boss z]

1. Ssj Blue Vegito (no kaioken, flying, and instant transmission, 30 mins) vs Toppo, Frieza, Hit, and Black?

Vegito

3. Vegito (cell games) vs Fat Buu (buu saga)?

Ssj Goku and Vegeta in the Buu saga were still weaker than ssj2 Gohan from the Cell games. They got most of their extra power from new transformations. Ssj Vegito from the Cell games probably wouldn't be that much weaker than ssj Vegito from the Buu saga, so Vegito stomps.

4. Super Buu vs Black (before ssj rose and getting the boost)?

I think black is stronger, but Buu has regen and hax, so idk who would win. If Black goes all out from the beggining and tries to vaporizes Buu, he probably wins. If he doesn't do that and the fight drags out, Buu may wear him out or absorb him or something.

Strongest character Caulifla can beat? (Base, SSJ, SSJ2)

Base: probably some fodder from the ToP
ssj: Perfect Cell maybe
ssj2: possibly one of the weaker versions of Buu

Current Kuririn, Tenshinhan, Roshi vs Freeza [Final Form; 10% FP; Namek arc].

Frieza if he is serious. If he plays around he could get taken out by their teamwork.

Current 18 vs 17 [Android arc].

They were almost equal before, so I would say 18 is stronger by now.

Slim Boo vs Super Boo.

Could go either way. Imo they are probably close to the same strength.

Kale [Berserker] vs SSG Goku.

Depends on how much fan service Kale gets. I'll go with SSG Goku tough.

SSB Vegetto [No time limit] vs Beerus.

Beerus in a good fight.

[LowRyder2005]

1. Ssj Blue Vegito (no kaioken, flying, and instant transmission, 30 mins) vs Toppo, Frieza, Hit, and Black?

2. Ssj god Broly (mini movie version) vs fused Zamasu (no immortality)?

3. Vegito (cell games) vs Fat Buu (buu saga)?

4. Super Buu vs Black (before ssj rose and getting the boost)?

1. The team looks fairly outmatched to me: their heaviest hitter (Toppo), should be around KK * 2 Goku, Vegito Blue should be far above that.

2. No idea on God Broly's feats.

3. Goku should be around the same power of his Cell Game counterpart (at least, no dramatic increases to speak of), but with no Super Saiyan 2 and 3; I peg Vegeta at around some 40-ish fraction of the power of his Buu arc counterpart. The gap between Fat Buu and Buuhan, however, is much more dramatic and Buuhan can, at best, scratch Super Saiyan Vegito. Cell Arc Vegito should have this in the bag.

4. Piecing together feats here and there, I feel like Super Buu could probably pull it off. I don't think regular base Goku is more than 2 or 3 times stronger than however strong he was in the beginning of BOG, while I have Super Buu around four times his Super Saiyan 3's strength. If base Black, in the future, is a little stronger than SS3 Goku from the Future Trunks arc he should still be comfortably below Super Buu. Obviously, SS Rosé is overkill; it might be interesting to see what people think of SS Black in the manga vs. Super Buu, though. If anything, because I have a really hard time applying the regular multipliers to Zamas.

[Polyphase Avatron]

Anime Zamasu vs. Manga Zamasu (all forms)

[LowRyder2005]

Anime Zamasu vs. Manga Zamasu (all forms)

Anime Zamas, most definitely. Even admitting they could be equal (Manga Zamas looks completely outclassed against Vegito), it would end with Zamas' essence against an army of - probably weaker - manga Zamases. Otherwise, stalemate if none can bypass the immortality of the other.

[Zamasu55]

Anime Zamasu vs. Manga Zamasu (all forms)

Anime Merged Zamasu stomps.