Discussion, generally of an in-universe nature, regarding any aspect of the franchise (including movies, spin-offs, etc.) such as: techniques, character relationships, internal back-history, its universe, and more.
I love Al to death but no way is he taking down the champ in a fight
Maybe in a football match
Four touchdowns in a single game >> World champ
ricky84 wrote:
Piccolo (ToP) vs Omega Shenron
This can't be a serious question. I guess you meant Oceanus Shenron or Haze.
"I will concede that your feelings are worthy of the mightiest of Saiyans. However, there is more to my power than just this. Before you die, I will show it to you. This is the difference in power, between the primitive Saiyans and the evolved Tsufruians." ~Baby Vegeta
ricky84 wrote:UI Omen Goku Black vs Full Powered Base Jiren
Base Vegito (Buu saga) vs Base Goku (Baby arc)
Base Vegito (ToP) vs SSJ1 Kefla (initial)
Piccolo (ToP) vs Omega Shenron
MUI Merged Zamasu vs Whis
1. It's fairly clear that Black's power-ups don't follow the same 'multipliers' as Goku's so I have no idea how to predict this.
2. I don't even try to power scale GT these days, pass.
3. Base Vegetto is comparable to Fused Zamasu in the manga, he murders anyone below CSSB tier.
4. ToP Piccolo is negligibly stronger than Buu arc Piccolo. Not a competition.
5. How are we even supposed to predict this?
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote:
Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
ricky84 wrote:UI Omen Goku Black vs Full Powered Base Jiren
Base Vegito (Buu saga) vs Base Goku (Baby arc)
Base Vegito (ToP) vs SSJ1 Kefla (initial)
Piccolo (ToP) vs Omega Shenron
MUI Merged Zamasu vs Whis
1. It's fairly clear that Black's power-ups don't follow the same 'multipliers' as Goku's so I have no idea how to predict this.
2. I don't even try to power scale GT these days, pass.
3. Base Vegetto is comparable to Fused Zamasu in the manga, he murders anyone below CSSB tier.
4. ToP Piccolo is negligibly stronger than Buu arc Piccolo. Not a competition.
5. How are we even supposed to predict this?
Except that during the Buu arc Piccolo was inferior to the SSJ Saiyans and ToP Piccolo is superior to SSJ2 Gohan prior to the intense training. It's pretty dumb to say there's a negligible difference between them.
Spoiler:
Super carries on much of Dragon Ball and Z's charm in ways that might not immediately be obvious, while also bringing something new to the table. I certainly can't think of any previous arcs like Goku Black, and, for all its problems, the Tournament of Power is possibly the most ambitious storytelling endeavor in series history as far as how its narrative unfolds. It's also a thrill ride, which is all I wanted and exactly what I got. Super also canonizes decades old fan theories in ways that very naturally tie into the overall fabric of Dragon Ball's world in satisfying ways. All in all, Dragon Ball, Z, and Super are all well worth experiencing.
PFM18 wrote:
Except that during the Buu arc Piccolo was inferior to the SSJ Saiyans and ToP Piccolo is superior to SSJ2 Gohan prior to the intense training.
Don't care about the anime.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote:
Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
PFM18 wrote:
Except that during the Buu arc Piccolo was inferior to the SSJ Saiyans and ToP Piccolo is superior to SSJ2 Gohan prior to the intense training.
Don't care about the anime.
Oh right I forgot you try to pretend there are a bunch of inconsistencies when compared to the manga.
Spoiler:
Super carries on much of Dragon Ball and Z's charm in ways that might not immediately be obvious, while also bringing something new to the table. I certainly can't think of any previous arcs like Goku Black, and, for all its problems, the Tournament of Power is possibly the most ambitious storytelling endeavor in series history as far as how its narrative unfolds. It's also a thrill ride, which is all I wanted and exactly what I got. Super also canonizes decades old fan theories in ways that very naturally tie into the overall fabric of Dragon Ball's world in satisfying ways. All in all, Dragon Ball, Z, and Super are all well worth experiencing.
PFM18 wrote:
Oh right I forgot you try to pretend there are a bunch of inconsistencies when compared to the manga.
Don't really need to pretend.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote:
Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
Are we too old to enjoy new Dragon Ball movies/series?
Spoiler:
Nickolaidas wrote: ↑Sun Jun 14, 2015 2:10 am
Guys, I'm going to be straight with you. If you feel the show has gotten 'silly' ... it hasn't. You're just 'too old for this shit'. Seriously, 95% of the people in those boards do not fit the target demographic of the show, so don't expect the show to be 'everything you hoped for'. I'm referring to the people here who expect Super to be rich with dark moments, serious storytelling, meaningful characters etc etc. It won't. It's a show for kids. A show for kids being kids. Everyone in those boards has a manchild in him/her, clamoring to get out, and that's fine. But having unrealistic expectations (such as believing the show grew up alongside you) is naïve at best. Honestly, do you take seriously a story where the supposed God of Destruction halts his urges to blow up stuff in order to eat ice cream sundae? That's the show's silliness at full force, take it for what it is. The show hasn't matured one bit, so don't expect it too. Again, I'm not saying that's a bad thing. I'm saying *that* is DB and always will be.
- Super (manga) Roshi vs. Freeza, Cell and Majin Boo
Ask again in three days.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote:
Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
- Super (manga) Roshi vs. Freeza, Cell and Majin Boo
Roshi loses bad. These characters would have the intent to kill, so they wouldn’t need to suppress themselves in the slightest. They’ll be far too fast for that reason, and one blow would end it.
The best Roshi may be able to do is dodge a punch or two, but I’d say the villains speed here will be too great.
ricky84 wrote:
How was Jiren off guard when he could clearly see and react to Vegeta's movements? 17 hitting Jiren in the back is an example of an off-guard attack, not anything from the Vegeta vs Jiren fight.
Also, Jiren powered up before Goku and Vegeta started using uncoordinated attacks against him, so that argument doesn't work. Besides, there is no way a character could perform better against a foe using a weaker transformation without getting stronger in general. Dragonball just doesn't work that way.
Jiren wasn’t expecting Vegeta to read his movements. Obviously, that wouldn’t happen if Jiren was a bit serious. This is subtlety implied from Vegeta barely being able to make Jiren move a muscle seconds before and, as soon as Vegeta reinforced Jiren’s sloppiness, things started to go as expected again, including Vegeta being almost knocked out of the ring.
I’m not sure what you mean by “Jiren powered-up before Goku and Vegeta ganged up on him” and “Dragon Ball doesn’t work that way”. Are you suggesting SSB Goku surpassed his first Ultra Instinct level, giving that Goku clashes briefly with Jiren in that powered-up state? I suppose you are not familiar with Base Goku vs. Hit’s fight.
Your argument doesn't explain why Jiren was taking Vegeta's fury of punches later in the fight more seriously than Goku's from the hour special. There was no implied sloppiness from Jiren in that episode. It's like you pull random headcanon out of nowhere.
Jiren powered up right before Goku reuses KKx20 and Vegeta unlocks SSBE for the first time, with Jiren saying I'm gonna need more power against these two. This was before the 2 ganged up on him with bad teamwork.
Hit didn't go all out on Goku when he was in base (he even said it himself), so that argument doesn't work either.
This is not a argument or headcannon. It’s outright told by Vegeta that Jiren is not using the same strength he used against Goku. Jiren never told anything about having to use more power against Goku and Vegeta. And Hit was fighting Base Goku in the same way he fought SSB Vegeta, I don’t know what you are trying to imply here. I suggest again that users actually check the episodes before engaging in circular discussions about them.
Hugo Boss wrote:
Jiren wasn’t expecting Vegeta to read his movements. Obviously, that wouldn’t happen if Jiren was a bit serious. This is subtlety implied from Vegeta barely being able to make Jiren move a muscle seconds before and, as soon as Vegeta reinforced Jiren’s sloppiness, things started to go as expected again, including Vegeta being almost knocked out of the ring.
I’m not sure what you mean by “Jiren powered-up before Goku and Vegeta ganged up on him” and “Dragon Ball doesn’t work that way”. Are you suggesting SSB Goku surpassed his first Ultra Instinct level, giving that Goku clashes briefly with Jiren in that powered-up state? I suppose you are not familiar with Base Goku vs. Hit’s fight.
Your argument doesn't explain why Jiren was taking Vegeta's fury of punches later in the fight more seriously than Goku's from the hour special. There was no implied sloppiness from Jiren in that episode. It's like you pull random headcanon out of nowhere.
Jiren powered up right before Goku reuses KKx20 and Vegeta unlocks SSBE for the first time, with Jiren saying I'm gonna need more power against these two. This was before the 2 ganged up on him with bad teamwork.
Hit didn't go all out on Goku when he was in base (he even said it himself), so that argument doesn't work either.
This is not a argument or headcannon. It’s outright told by Vegeta that Jiren is not using the same strength he used against Goku. Jiren never told anything about having to use more power against Goku and Vegeta. And Hit was fighting Base Goku in the same way he fought SSB Vegeta, I don’t know what you are trying to imply here. I suggest again that users actually check the episodes before engaging in circular discussions about them.
Speak for yourself.
1. Vegeta was obviously referring to UI Goku, because Vegeta could easily see and react to the punches Jiren threw at SSB Goku in that same episode. Plus, he was able to create a Final Flash stronger than the Spirit Bomb (which itself was stronger than KKx20). So your wrong here again.
2. Hit himself stated that he didn't go all out with base Goku (nor did he hit his vitals like he did to SSB Vegeta). You keep denying that.
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.
PFM18 wrote:
Oh right I forgot you try to pretend there are a bunch of inconsistencies when compared to the manga.
Don't really need to pretend.
You actually do though. Far fewer inconsistencies in the anime when compared to the manga
Spoiler:
Super carries on much of Dragon Ball and Z's charm in ways that might not immediately be obvious, while also bringing something new to the table. I certainly can't think of any previous arcs like Goku Black, and, for all its problems, the Tournament of Power is possibly the most ambitious storytelling endeavor in series history as far as how its narrative unfolds. It's also a thrill ride, which is all I wanted and exactly what I got. Super also canonizes decades old fan theories in ways that very naturally tie into the overall fabric of Dragon Ball's world in satisfying ways. All in all, Dragon Ball, Z, and Super are all well worth experiencing.
PFM18 wrote:
Oh right I forgot you try to pretend there are a bunch of inconsistencies when compared to the manga.
Don't really need to pretend.
You actually do though. Far fewer inconsistencies in the anime when compared to the manga
Nonsense. Name the power inconsistencies in the manga, except Goku black base/ss1 - vegeta/Goku etc.
Anime has hundreds.
Yamcha almost certainly did not cheat on Bulma:
He was afraid of Women, Bulma was the flirty one.
Yamcha wanted to get married (it was his gonna be his wish)
He suggested they settle down in the Trunks saga. Alternate future Trunks is not a reliable source.
Toriyama wanted new SSJ Kids and not make new characters.
AvatarReiko wrote:Manga DBS Roshi vs Buu Arc Vegito
TOP SSJG Goku vs U6 Hit
Current Base Goku & Vegeta vs Buuhan
Roshi
Hit
Either Goku or Vegeta could one shot.
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.
AvatarReiko wrote:Manga DBS Roshi vs Buu Arc Vegito
TOP SSJG Goku vs U6 Hit
Current Base Goku & Vegeta vs Buuhan
- My God Toyotaro, what have you done?
- Hit of course.
- Buuhan, no contest. The "Beyond God State" isn't a thing anymore, so they would need divine ki to win.
How strong do you think Cell would be if he trained all 13 years since the Cell Games and competed in the ToP? How strong do you think he would be comparable to?
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.