Androids 19 and 20's presence in the alternate timelines

[Dr. Machismo]

said that #16, #19 & #20 never appeared in his future.

He could have just never heard or seen them before, for reasons explained in the thread.

[Piccolo Daimao]

I imagined that #19 and #20 may’ve existed in Trunks’ timeline, and everything proceeded mostly the same up until #17 and #20 were activated. Vegeta and co. would’ve been killed in that battle because Kuririn, not knowing of his future death, would’ve jumped in too and, if he got beaten, there wouldn’t be anyone to give them Senzu. Remember that #17 said that they’d die if Kuririn didn’t give them Senzu, and it’s clear that they couldn’t care less whether or not they lived or died.

Gohan and Blooma might never have known about them if the former simply wasn’t present for the battles, since Chi-Chi would object to Gokuu (who’d be dead by then anyway) training him and then him leaving to fight with Gokuu’s friends against villains again. Blooma would presumably be absent too. So none of them would’ve known about #19 and #20, and simply assumed that the Androids who attacked Amenbo Island were the same ones that killed Vegeta and co.

[Bussani]

said that #16, #19 & #20 never appeared in his future.

He could have just never heard or seen them before, for reasons explained in the thread.

Yeah. Both explanations seem plausible.

[Sailor Haumea]

Sorry to necropost, but:

-In Cell's flashback in the anime, Gero is an android. Presumably, he converts himself in all timelines because he inevitably dies of old age/illness. It's just that 17 and 18 kill him in the Trunks timelines.
-Since it seems to be implied that 19 was the one that transferred Gero's brain into an android body, he's presumably just destroyed offscreen by 17 and 18 in the future timelines.

[King13s]

Yeah I'm thinking they did exist and the Trunks was just unaware that the two androids that attacked the city were 19 & 20. This actually makes more sense as to why the team would call them androids as well. 19 was entirely robotic, & 20 just had a brain case.

Gero left after 20 was destroyed just to get destroyed by 17 & 18. The problem lays with nobody informing Trunks that 19 & 20 attacked first. He's that kid that didn't pay attention in history class but got to time travel.

[KBABZ]

Yeah I'm thinking they did exist and the Trunks was just unaware that the two androids that attacked the city were 19 & 20. This actually makes more sense as to why the team would call them androids as well. 19 was entirely robotic, & 20 just had a brain case.

Gero left after 20 was destroyed just to get destroyed by 17 & 18. The problem lays with nobody informing Trunks that 19 & 20 attacked first. He's that kid that didn't pay attention in history class but got to time travel.

My previous theory on this was that, since the Androids attacked without warning in the original Timeline, things played out very differently. Goku would have already been dead by the heart virus, and the heroes would likely only hear about it by whoever was nearby and them happening to watch the news (if the city wasn't instantly obliterated and preventing word from getting out). My headcanon is that Gohan was studying while the others reassured him that they had things under control, an excuse he wouldn't like. They put up enough of a fight to force Gero to retreat and activate 17 and 18, who promptly kill him. 17 and 18 then wipe out all the heroes except for Gohan, who was isolated. Thus, Gohan nor folks like Bulma or Yajirobe have any idea that 19 and 20 even existed in the first place.

Unfortunately with Super, the Pilaf Gang make their wish for youth screw-up shortly before Piccolo is killed, which screws things up a bit given that the sky never goes dark in the Z version of these events as seen in the manga/anime and Goku is able to pick up the Dragon Balls as normal in the lead-up to the Cell Games.

[King13s]

My previous theory on this was that, since the Androids attacked without warning in the original Timeline, things played out very differently. Goku would have already been dead by the heart virus, and the heroes would likely only hear about it by whoever was nearby and them happening to watch the news (if the city wasn't instantly obliterated and preventing word from getting out). My headcanon is that Gohan was studying while the others reassured him that they had things under control, an excuse he wouldn't like. They put up enough of a fight to force Gero to retreat and activate 17 and 18, who promptly kill him. 17 and 18 then wipe out all the heroes except for Gohan, who was isolated. Thus, Gohan nor folks like Bulma or Yajirobe have any idea that 19 and 20 even existed in the first place.

Unfortunately with Super, the Pilaf Gang make their wish for youth screw-up shortly before Piccolo is killed, which screws things up a bit given that the sky never goes dark in the Z version of these events as seen in the manga/anime and Goku is able to pick up the Dragon Balls as normal in the lead-up to the Cell Games.

That's makes a lot of sense. Goku's heart attack was only delayed because he took some of the medication. Where as here he wouldn't have anything. He'd be sick.

Substitute bad communication with not having all the information. It also ties a nice little bow on it that says, "the past cannot be altered because we weren't there. We don't know the truth of what happened."

[KBABZ]

My previous theory on this was that, since the Androids attacked without warning in the original Timeline, things played out very differently. Goku would have already been dead by the heart virus, and the heroes would likely only hear about it by whoever was nearby and them happening to watch the news (if the city wasn't instantly obliterated and preventing word from getting out). My headcanon is that Gohan was studying while the others reassured him that they had things under control, an excuse he wouldn't like. They put up enough of a fight to force Gero to retreat and activate 17 and 18, who promptly kill him. 17 and 18 then wipe out all the heroes except for Gohan, who was isolated. Thus, Gohan nor folks like Bulma or Yajirobe have any idea that 19 and 20 even existed in the first place.

Unfortunately with Super, the Pilaf Gang make their wish for youth screw-up shortly before Piccolo is killed, which screws things up a bit given that the sky never goes dark in the Z version of these events as seen in the manga/anime and Goku is able to pick up the Dragon Balls as normal in the lead-up to the Cell Games.

That's makes a lot of sense. Goku's heart attack was only delayed because he took some of the medication. Where as here he wouldn't have anything. He'd be sick.

Substitute bad communication with not having all the information. It also ties a nice little bow on it that says, "the past cannot be altered because we weren't there. We don't know the truth of what happened."

Exactly! Plus with the slight revision in the anime, it was a genuine error from Trunks to not give the actual names of the Androids since he didn't know there was more than just those two!

[linkdude20002001]

I'm just now watching thru that part of the series for the first time since the Toonami days, and I was thinking the same scenario that the opening post said. It seems quite possible.

When the Androids attackt Amenbo Island, Chichi wouldn't let Gohan go with Gokuh, so just Gokuh, Kulilin, Yamcha, Tenshinhan, and Piccolo (or more or less) showd up to check out this new threat. Gokuh succumbd to the heart virus, and Kulilin carried him back home. Then Gohan returnd to the scene of the fight only to find that everyone has perisht, or nearly. Vegeta had come in at the end and destroyd No. 19 (without leaving his head behind), scaring No. 20 back to his lab to awaken No. 17 and No. 18. However, with it being just Vegeta (no Trunks to say "No, stop! Don't blast down the door!"), he blasted down the door, resulting in no time for the twins to activate to No. 16. They instead use Vegeta's distraction to get the remote from No. 20, and then kill him. And then Vegeta fights them. Perhaps Vegeta's Super Saiyan power alerted Gohan and Kulilin to his location, and so they went and fot alongside Vegeta...only for Vegeta and Kulilin to be wiped out, and Gohan to just barely survive.

That's how I imagind it anyway.

[Zeru14]

Toyotaro did one shot chapter showing how the Pilaf Gang became children again in the original timeline, it was shown that 17 and 18 were the only Androids to appear, yes Kid Gohan and Bulma saw them before leaving to get the Dragonballs(what their wish was is unknown). Toriyama has left many unanswered questions about the original timeline events, what happened 16, was 19 created, did Gero become an Android, what happened to the lookout and Mr. Popo, why didn't any of the deceased warrior ask King Kai to locate New Namek ask them to use their Dragonballs to resurrect them etc...

[KBABZ]

Toyotaro did one shot chapter showing how the Pilaf Gang became children again in the original timeline, it was shown that 17 and 18 were the only Androids to appear, yes Kid Gohan and Bulma saw them before leaving to get the Dragonballs(what their wish was is unknown). Toriyama has left many unanswered questions about the original timeline events, what happened 16, was 19 created, did Gero become an Android, what happened to the lookout and Mr. Popo, why didn't any of the deceased warrior ask King Kai to locate New Namek ask them to use their Dragonballs to resurrect them etc...

This doesn't answer most of those questions, but we can assume that both Timelines were very similar aside from Trunks arriving and warning them that they'd appear. Until they go to the island where the Androids first show up, the only major difference would be the heroes training for that very day. Which, I always felt, is why the Androids themselves are much stronger, because Gero altered them to keep up with the pace. Heck, that might be why 16 exists!

[lancerman]

Keep in mind that you can't sense the Androids energy. So it's entirely possible 19 and 20 attacked the island and the main characters didn't hear about it until well after. It's possible that sometime between that and them fighting anybody that Gero released 17 and 18 and got killed.

[KBABZ]

Keep in mind that you can't sense the Androids energy. So it's entirely possible 19 and 20 attacked the island and the main characters didn't hear about it until well after. It's possible that sometime between that and them fighting anybody that Gero released 17 and 18 and got killed.

I disagree with that particular outlook; Dr. Gero initially had no intention of releasing 17 and 18, and only did so out of desperation. Given that it was Vegeta who forced this in the Z Timeline, I'd say it happened in the Future Timeline as well, where Vegeta destroys 19 and Dr. Gero retreats to his lab.

I did actually think about the energy thing though, where any of them powering up wouldn't have tipped absentee Gohan that anything was up, possibly until the others really have to power up to take on 17 and 18 and he's like "If Piccolo's power is raised that high... then things can't be good out there!".

[lancerman]

Keep in mind that you can't sense the Androids energy. So it's entirely possible 19 and 20 attacked the island and the main characters didn't hear about it until well after. It's possible that sometime between that and them fighting anybody that Gero released 17 and 18 and got killed.

I disagree with that particular outlook; Dr. Gero initially had no intention of releasing 17 and 18, and only did so out of desperation. Given that it was Vegeta who forced this in the Z Timeline, I'd say it happened in the Future Timeline as well, where Vegeta destroys 19 and Dr. Gero retreats to his lab.

I did actually think about the energy thing though, where any of them powering up wouldn't have tipped absentee Gohan that anything was up, possibly until the others really have to power up to take on 17 and 18 and he's like "If Piccolo's power is raised that high... then things can't be good out there!".

I'm just more thinking that it's very possible that a long period of time passed before any of the main cast understood what was going on. Theoretically the Androids would have hit the city and it's likely nobody knows about it for awhile. From there it could have been several coordinated attacks. At which point we don't know what happened. They kill Piccolo who finds them independently of everyone else and there are no Dragon Balls. Bulma freaks out and gets Vegeta to face them. Vegeta scares them into activating 17 and 18. Gohan never meets 19 and 20. It could play out somehow like that.

[KBABZ]

I'm just more thinking that it's very possible that a long period of time passed before any of the main cast understood what was going on. Theoretically the Androids would have hit the city and it's likely nobody knows about it for awhile. From there it could have been several coordinated attacks. At which point we don't know what happened. They kill Piccolo who finds them independently of everyone else and there are no Dragon Balls. Bulma freaks out and gets Vegeta to face them. Vegeta scares them into activating 17 and 18. Gohan never meets 19 and 20. It could play out somehow like that.

Very true. ...don't have much more to say on the matter!

[GreatSaiyaman123]

19 and 20 definitely didn't appear. Trunks literally says there were just two Androids. The android duo would also be too much as it's requirer a Super Saiyan to beat them.

[KBABZ]

19 and 20 definitely didn't appear. Trunks literally says there were just two Androids. The android duo would also be too much as it's requirer a Super Saiyan to beat them.

Well what we're postulating is that in the original Timeline, Trunks would not have been able to know that considering he was 1 at the time. If events played out a certain way (say, Dr. Gero being forced to retreat by Piccolo and Vegeta and then getting killed after activating 17 and 18, before Bulma or Gohan appear) then it's easily plausible for it all to fit together. It isn't out of the question for Vegeta to have attained Super Saiyan by that point in the Future Timeline.

[Super_Divine_Genki]

19 and 20 definitely didn't appear. Trunks literally says there were just two Androids. The android duo would also be too much as it's requirer a Super Saiyan to beat them.

I've always felt that they did appear, similar to how the events played out in the main timeline. It's just that F.Trunks was an infant by the time that they'd been disposed of, so he never had that knowledge of their existence -- all that he knew was that there were two cyborgs. And F.Vegeta was shown to have become a SSJ in that timeline, so he was enough to obliterate #19 and send Gero fleeing for the lab.

As for #16, that's a mystery. He could've been activated, but with no Son Goku around to fulfill his programming, maybe he just lolly-gagged off into some remote place surrounded by nature after some time while the other two cyborgs became destructive. Or, for whatever reason, his build was not yet operable for anyone to activate in that timeline. Yeah, the arc leaves a lot of head room, but that's one of the things that I like about it. And it can all be made sense of without contradicting something that had been established.

[KBABZ]

As for #16, that's a mystery. He could've been activated, but with no Son Goku around to fulfill his programming, maybe he just lolly-gagged off into some remote place surrounded by nature after some time while the other two cyborgs became destructive. Or, for whatever reason, his build was not yet operable for anyone to activate in that timeline. Yeah, the arc leaves a lot of head room, but that's one of the things that I like about it. And it can all be made sense of without contradicting something that had been established.

I had a headcanon for 16 as well. One of the reasons I think the Z Timeline's 17 and 18 are so much more powerful is because Dr. Gero noticed the Z Fighters improving and updated them to keep up with the pace. As part of that, he might have built 16 as well.

[miguelnuva1]

As for #16, that's a mystery. He could've been activated, but with no Son Goku around to fulfill his programming, maybe he just lolly-gagged off into some remote place surrounded by nature after some time while the other two cyborgs became destructive. Or, for whatever reason, his build was not yet operable for anyone to activate in that timeline. Yeah, the arc leaves a lot of head room, but that's one of the things that I like about it. And it can all be made sense of without contradicting something that had been established.

I had a headcanon for 16 as well. One of the reasons I think the Z Timeline's 17 and 18 are so much more powerful is because Dr. Gero noticed the Z Fighters improving and updated them to keep up with the pace. As part of that, he might have built 16 as well.

Dr. Gero says he had to stop watching after the saiyan arc to make the Androids.