Battle Of Gods Base Goku Is Weaker Than Frieza?
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Battle Of Gods Base Goku Is Weaker Than Frieza?
That makes no sense IMO. That would make Boo Arc Base Goku weaker than Frieza and BOG Goku > Boo Arc Goku
Re: Battle Of Gods Base Goku Is Weaker Than Freeza?
I still don't get the problem anyone has with it. What's so wrong with Goku getting way, WAY stronger after his fight with Freeza, but not quite 40x or more stronger?
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Re: Battle Of Gods Base Goku Is Weaker Than Freeza?
It's impossible with the gaps during the Cell ArcKaboom wrote:I still don't get the problem anyone has with it. What's so wrong with Goku getting way, WAY stronger after his fight with Freeza, but not quite 40x or more stronger?
Show me your numbers
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Re: Battle Of Gods Base Goku Is Weaker Than Freeza?
It's funny because i always had Frieza > Base Saiyans.
Few of my topics in past were battlefield because of this and even now some of them won't accept the truth.
The statment is made by AT himself (since he wrote whole thing himself) so yes, its right and everyone else who thinks diffrent is wrong...
Few of my topics in past were battlefield because of this and even now some of them won't accept the truth.
The statment is made by AT himself (since he wrote whole thing himself) so yes, its right and everyone else who thinks diffrent is wrong...
Re: Battle Of Gods Base Goku Is Weaker Than Freeza?
You are wrongSuper Vegetto wrote:It's funny because i always had Freeza > Base Saiyans.
Few of my topics in past were battlefield because of this and even now some of them won't accept the truth.
The statment is made by AT himself (since he wrote whole thing himself) so yes, its right and everyone else who thinks diffrent is wrong...
Wanatabe wrote the movie and Base Saiyans > Frieza is in the Manga
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Super Vegetto
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Re: Battle Of Gods Base Goku Is Weaker Than Freeza?
Kakashi wrote:You are wrongSuper Vegetto wrote:It's funny because i always had Freeza > Base Saiyans.
Few of my topics in past were battlefield because of this and even now some of them won't accept the truth.
The statment is made by AT himself (since he wrote whole thing himself) so yes, its right and everyone else who thinks diffrent is wrong...
Wanatabe wrote the movie and Base Saiyans > Freeza is in the Manga
Oh, no no no, you are wong.
Toriyama Interview wrote:
Q: I heard that this is the first time you've been deeply involved with the script of a movie; please tell us the reason.
A: The catalyst was that, first of all, when the script originally came to me, there was a lot of the sort of dialogue that only the creator would know, so I thought, 'that bothers me', and then this and that also started to get on my mind, and so rather than telling them to revise each individual thing, I thought it might be faster if I just wrote the script myself.
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: Battle Of Gods Base Goku Is Weaker Than Freeza?
It's not impossible. I could make them work fine:Kakashi wrote:It's impossible with the gaps during the Cell ArcKaboom wrote:I still don't get the problem anyone has with it. What's so wrong with Goku getting way, WAY stronger after his fight with Freeza, but not quite 40x or more stronger?
Show me your numbers
Spoiler:
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James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Re: Battle Of Gods Base Goku Is Weaker Than Freeza?
Toriyama thought SSjin 3 was SSjin 2Super Vegetto wrote:Kakashi wrote:You are wrongSuper Vegetto wrote:It's funny because i always had Freeza > Base Saiyans.
Few of my topics in past were battlefield because of this and even now some of them won't accept the truth.
The statment is made by AT himself (since he wrote whole thing himself) so yes, its right and everyone else who thinks diffrent is wrong...
Wanatabe wrote the movie and Base Saiyans > Freeza is in the Manga
Oh, no no no, you are wong.
Toriyama Interview wrote:
Q: I heard that this is the first time you've been deeply involved with the script of a movie; please tell us the reason.
A: The catalyst was that, first of all, when the script originally came to me, there was a lot of the sort of dialogue that only the creator would know, so I thought, 'that bothers me', and then this and that also started to get on my mind, and so rather than telling them to revise each individual thing, I thought it might be faster if I just wrote the script myself.
The Manga says Base Saiyans > Frieza
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Super Vegetto
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Re: Battle Of Gods Base Goku Is Weaker Than Freeza?
Toriyama obviously readed whole manga, and than decided to write everything with his hands.
He wouldn't mind so much and take everything in his hands if he didn't know what he was doing...
He wouldn't mind so much and take everything in his hands if he didn't know what he was doing...
Re: Battle Of Gods Base Goku Is Weaker Than Freeza?
There are so much flaws in your levels, I don't know where to start. Androids Saga Picccolo >> SSjin Trunks (Trunks Arc) already destroys your argumentDBZGTKOSDH wrote:It's not impossible. I could make them work fine:Kakashi wrote:It's impossible with the gaps during the Cell ArcKaboom wrote:I still don't get the problem anyone has with it. What's so wrong with Goku getting way, WAY stronger after his fight with Freeza, but not quite 40x or more stronger?
Show me your numbers
Spoiler:Spoiler:Spoiler:Spoiler:Spoiler:Spoiler:Spoiler:
Re: Battle Of Gods Base Goku Is Weaker Than Freeza?
The Manga says Base Saiyans > FriezaSuper Vegetto wrote:Toriyama obviously readed whole manga, and than decided to write everything with his hands.
He wouldn't mind so much and take everything in his hands if he didn't know what he was doing...
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Super Vegetto
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Re: Battle Of Gods Base Goku Is Weaker Than Freeza?
Kakashi wrote:The Manga says Base Saiyans > FreezaSuper Vegetto wrote:Toriyama obviously readed whole manga, and than decided to write everything with his hands.
He wouldn't mind so much and take everything in his hands if he didn't know what he was doing...
It doesn't say that. You say that.
How do you think i knew that Frieza is way up in the fucking sky compered to Base Saiyans before Battle of Gods was even relised ?
I readed manga and didn't find contradictions. Also to me it never made sense that Base Goku can beat his SSJ self or Universe tyrant that no amount of training can surpass, which brought me to this decision at first...
Re: Battle Of Gods Base Goku Is Weaker Than Freeza?
i like how everyone ignores the fact that Goku was obviously suppressed when bills made that statement
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: Battle Of Gods Base Goku Is Weaker Than Freeza?
Are you talking about Trunks from "Trunks the Story"? That's the 14 year old SS Trunks that base Gohan can handle with one hand, and it is stated that Trunks is born with the ability to turn Super Saiyan without doing training.Kakashi wrote:Androids Saga Picccolo >> SSjin Trunks (Trunks Arc) already destroys your argument
What other flaws?
And I like how everyone ignores the fact that Goku doesn't argue, and Kaio says that Beers is correct.Saiyan007 wrote:i like how everyone ignores the fact that Goku was obviously suppressed when bills made that statement
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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Re: Battle Of Gods Base Goku Is Weaker Than Freeza?
Bills knows Frieza and amount of power he has. He was suprised that Saiyan defeated him.Saiyan007 wrote:i like how everyone ignores the fact that Goku was obviously suppressed when bills made that statement
He judged Goku's power just like Ginyu, and nothing says that he was wrong when he stated that Goku couldn't defeat Frieza without powering up to SSJ.
Re: Battle Of Gods Base Goku Is Weaker Than Freeza?
He said nothing about Goku can't beat Freeza in his base form because Goku was suppressed. Goku can still power up in his base form. He was just highly suppressed in his base.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:And I like how everyone ignores the fact that Goku doesn't argue, and Kaio says that Beers is correct.Saiyan007 wrote:i like how everyone ignores the fact that Goku was obviously suppressed when bills made that statement
Besides didn't Goku think Freeza was not much of a challenge in the Tarble movie and he thought that the kids would make a great match for them and Goku only saw Freeza's final form.
Re: Battle Of Gods Base Goku Is Weaker Than Freeza?
Please don't state false claims.Kakashi wrote:
The Manga says Base Saiyans > Freeza
There's absolutely nothing in the manga saying or implying that base Goku in the Buu saga has to be stronger than Freeza. Goku can be something like 40 times stronger in his base in the Buu saga compared to when he fought Freeza and he would still be weaker than Freeza (since SSJ is a 50 times increase).
There's absolutely no problem with the gaps in power in the android arc and buu arc with this assumption because, even a small increase in the power at base, since SSJ is a 50 times increase of the base's power, would still make the Saiyan, much, much stronger.
A saiyan with a base power level of 10 will only have 500 with his SSJ. But if he increases his base power by just 5 times, his SSJ would be 2500. And that's just 5 times, not something like 40. And that's just regarding SSJ1, not any other form of SSJ which would increase his power even further.
Like it was mentioned, even someone like Ginyu could more or less figure out correctly the power of a fighter even if he was suppressed. Why you think Bills, the most powerful god that we know of in the DB universe, is not capable of doing something like that is beyond me.Saiyan007 wrote:He said nothing about Goku can't beat Freeza in his base form becuase Goku was suppressed. Goku can still power up in his base form. He was just highly suppressed in his base.
Besides didn't Goku think Freeza was not much of a challenge in the Tarble movie and he thought that the kids would make a great match for them and goku only saw Freeza's final form.
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Re: Battle Of Gods Base Goku Is Weaker Than Freeza?
Yes he did.Saiyan007 wrote:He said nothing about Goku can't beat Freeza in his base form becuase Goku was suppressed.
Beers: I heard from Whis that you defeated Freeza.
Goku: Freeza? Y-Yes that was definitely me.
(Beers checks Goku.)
Beers: Seeing you as you are now I doubt you'd be able to. But it seems you power up by becoming a Super Saiyan.
Kaio: That is correct. You are well informed.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Re: Battle Of Gods Base Goku Is Weaker Than Freeza?
It says nothing of the kind. Goku was impressed that the kaioshins could all defeat frieza in one blow. Why would he be impressed by that unless Freeza's power was somehow still relevant? And the only way for frieza's power to be relevant would be for goku's base to still be below frieza.Kakashi wrote:The Manga says Base Saiyans > FreezaSuper Vegetto wrote:Toriyama obviously readed whole manga, and than decided to write everything with his hands.
He wouldn't mind so much and take everything in his hands if he didn't know what he was doing...
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Re: Battle Of Gods Base Goku Is Weaker Than Freeza?
What exactly is the problem here? The manga doesn't contradict this statement, so what reason is there to think it's incorrect? I realize people get a little too carried away with Dabura's statement, but seriously other than that, there's really nothing suggesting the base Saiyans are anything special. Now I am an oddball and do think Saiyans can put a little SSJ energy into their base forms, but that's unnecessary as far as the manga goes. I only did that to make sense of GT.
Well you would be wrong. Beers says that he doesn't think Goku could beat Freeza as he is now. Kaio agrees with Beers AND Goku doesn't argue. These are facts. Everything beyond that are assumptions, and people ASSUME Goku is stronger than Freeza because of a little statement that Dabura makes.Saiyan007 wrote:He said nothing about Goku can't beat Freeza in his base form becuase Goku was suppressed.
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours."
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