Chichi's training (or lack there of)
Moderators: General Help, Kanzenshuu Staff
Chichi's training (or lack there of)
Specifically, why didn't Chichi do any combat training during the Saiyan arc?
She went to the 23rd tournament just to beat marriage out of Goku. Sure, she settled down and became a housewife shortly there after, but her husband kinda died, her son got kidnapped and everyone who knew anything about it was busy training for two mysterious enemies of doom on their way to Earth. That sounds like quite a lot of motivation for the woman who once fought her way through a whole block of preliminary fighters to pick up the axes and start practicing.
I doubt it would have helped much, if at all, and it's true that even filler leaves open the possibility that she actually did some training. But it does come across as strange that Chichi just rages from the sidelines the entire time when she knows what kind of trouble Gohan's in.
(If nothing else, she might have tried taking an axe to Vegeta's tail.)
She comes across as weaker than Roshi and her father in the anime, which I suppose is possible (not that she got in a good hit on Roshi as a kid, or anything...), which strikes me as something she would try to rectify as soon as she realized it would be a problem.
She went to the 23rd tournament just to beat marriage out of Goku. Sure, she settled down and became a housewife shortly there after, but her husband kinda died, her son got kidnapped and everyone who knew anything about it was busy training for two mysterious enemies of doom on their way to Earth. That sounds like quite a lot of motivation for the woman who once fought her way through a whole block of preliminary fighters to pick up the axes and start practicing.
I doubt it would have helped much, if at all, and it's true that even filler leaves open the possibility that she actually did some training. But it does come across as strange that Chichi just rages from the sidelines the entire time when she knows what kind of trouble Gohan's in.
(If nothing else, she might have tried taking an axe to Vegeta's tail.)
She comes across as weaker than Roshi and her father in the anime, which I suppose is possible (not that she got in a good hit on Roshi as a kid, or anything...), which strikes me as something she would try to rectify as soon as she realized it would be a problem.
Dr Gero, in Budokai 2 wrote:Go, my Saiba Rangers!
Akira Toriyama, in Son Goku Densetsu wrote:You really can’t go by rumors (laughs).
Re: Chichi's training (or lack there of)
That would be like Roshi starting to practice for the Saiyans. Good intentions but pointless. Fighters way more capable were already on the "job".
Re: Chichi's training (or lack there of)
Like Chaozu and Yamcha!rereboy wrote:That would be like Roshi starting to practice for the Saiyans. Good intentions but pointless. Fighters way more capable were already on the "job".
Re: Chichi's training (or lack there of)
I for one would love Chi Chi becoming stronger, and mastering the Kaio-ken. She would fight alongside Goku, or as a support.
This could lead to awesome "Beaten by a woman! Argh!" moments and Chi Chi being a sexy badass.
This could lead to awesome "Beaten by a woman! Argh!" moments and Chi Chi being a sexy badass.
Re: Chichi's training (or lack there of)
Considering the Saiyan Saga was a massacre, it wouldn't have mattered if Chi Chi or Master Roshi helped or not. Everyone was fodder for Nappa. A couple extra bodies wouldn't have hurt none, except maybe with Chi Chi being killed by Nappa would finally cause Gohan to tap into that power Piccolo predicted early on.
Re: Chichi's training (or lack there of)
Well, Piccolo's tactic where he, Gohan and Kuririn tried to off Nappa could have worked if Chi Chi was there to yell at Gohan for being such a wuss.FoolsGil wrote:Considering the Saiyan Saga was a massacre, it wouldn't have mattered if Chi Chi or Master Roshi helped or not. Everyone was fodder for Nappa. A couple extra bodies wouldn't have hurt none, except maybe with Chi Chi being killed by Nappa would finally cause Gohan to tap into that power Piccolo predicted early on.
- RandomGuy96
- Kicks it Old-School
- Posts: 8862
- Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 3:57 pm
- Location: San Diego, California, USA
Re: Chichi's training (or lack there of)
Both of them were still way more useful than Chi Chi.Rocketman wrote:Like Chaozu and Yamcha!rereboy wrote:That would be like Roshi starting to practice for the Saiyans. Good intentions but pointless. Fighters way more capable were already on the "job".
The Monkey King wrote:It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWokeRandomGuy96 wrote:He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
- RandomGuy96
- Kicks it Old-School
- Posts: 8862
- Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 3:57 pm
- Location: San Diego, California, USA
Re: Chichi's training (or lack there of)
Both of them were still way more useful than Chi Chi.Rocketman wrote:Like Chaozu and Yamcha!rereboy wrote:That would be like Roshi starting to practice for the Saiyans. Good intentions but pointless. Fighters way more capable were already on the "job".
The Monkey King wrote:It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWokeRandomGuy96 wrote:He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
Re: Chichi's training (or lack there of)
Yamcha was able to become somewhat stronger than Raditz and he wasn't that far behind the others from the start. That's not useless for the kind of power they expected from the Saiyans. Chaotzu is kind of useless but Tenshinhan probably couldn't talk him out of it. In the android saga he was able to talk him out of going.Rocketman wrote:Like Chaozu and Yamcha!rereboy wrote:That would be like Roshi starting to practice for the Saiyans. Good intentions but pointless. Fighters way more capable were already on the "job".
- RandomGuy96
- Kicks it Old-School
- Posts: 8862
- Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 3:57 pm
- Location: San Diego, California, USA
Re: Chichi's training (or lack there of)
Even after all the training, Yamcha was still weaker than Raditz.
The Monkey King wrote:It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWokeRandomGuy96 wrote:He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
Re: Chichi's training (or lack there of)
No, he proved that he was superior to an opponent stated to have the same power as Raditz.RandomGuy96 wrote:Even after all the training, Yamcha was still weaker than Raditz.
- RandomGuy96
- Kicks it Old-School
- Posts: 8862
- Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 3:57 pm
- Location: San Diego, California, USA
Re: Chichi's training (or lack there of)
No, he didn't.rereboy wrote:No, he proved that he was superior to an opponent stated to have the same power as Raditz.RandomGuy96 wrote:Even after all the training, Yamcha was still weaker than Raditz.
The Monkey King wrote:It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWokeRandomGuy96 wrote:He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
- Chuquita
- Namekian Warrior
- Posts: 15155
- Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2004 2:16 am
- Location: New Jersey
- Contact:
Re: Chichi's training (or lack there of)
I would've liked to have seen her continue training (actually I'd have liked to have seen her been the swordswoman of the cast; that throw-a-way gag-panel where she threatens Kamesennin using one as a weapon was cool) though I feel even if she did, the power gap between Goku and the rest of the cast was already getting to the point where she wouldn't have made nearly as much impact as I'd have liked to have seen.
Re: Chichi's training (or lack there of)
...RandomGuy96 wrote:No, he didn't.rereboy wrote:No, he proved that he was superior to an opponent stated to have the same power as Raditz.RandomGuy96 wrote:Even after all the training, Yamcha was still weaker than Raditz.
- His opponent is stated to have a power equal to Raditz.
- Yamcha, in just a few seconds, made his opponent kiss the ground with no apparent difficulty.
- His opponent, noticing that he had no chance of winning against Yamcha, uses his last strength and resorts to self-destructing himself at point blank range just to end up with a draw, and even that wouldn't have worked if Yamcha had kept his attention focused.
- Self-destruct attacks are shown to be used in Dragon Ball multiple times as a desperation move when the opponent is superior.
And you are arguing that Yamcha wasn't shown to be superior? Ok...
(Btw, Tenshinhan's opponent also got up in the end... He just didn't think about trying to self-destruct himself along with Tenshinhan because Vegeta hadn't killed any of them to make clear that they would not survive if they lost. And then Vegeta killed him. You also believe that Tenshinhan wasn't shown to be superior, then?)
Re: Chichi's training (or lack there of)
The Saibaimen have power that rivals Raditz, not that's exactly equal to him, and Toriyama himself has written that they're somewhat weaker than him. Yamcha has almost exactly the same power as Raditz when he pwns a Saibaiman one-on-one.
Yamcha: 1480
Raditz: 1500
Saibaimen: ~1200
Yamcha: 1480
Raditz: 1500
Saibaimen: ~1200
deviantART
FanFic: DragonBall GT Revised [thread]
Powar Levuls: Main Series | Movies and Specials | GT
Nintendo/PSN/Steam: KaboomKrusader
ACNH Dream Address: DA-1637-4046-7415 ("SlamZone")
(Not) lost (enough) DB Super plots!
A handy video guide to Kanzenshuu-level grammar quality!
FanFic: DragonBall GT Revised [thread]
Powar Levuls: Main Series | Movies and Specials | GT
Nintendo/PSN/Steam: KaboomKrusader
ACNH Dream Address: DA-1637-4046-7415 ("SlamZone")
(Not) lost (enough) DB Super plots!
A handy video guide to Kanzenshuu-level grammar quality!
- RandomGuy96
- Kicks it Old-School
- Posts: 8862
- Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 3:57 pm
- Location: San Diego, California, USA
Re: Chichi's training (or lack there of)
As Kaboom said: no, he isn't.- His opponent is stated to have a power equal to Raditz.
The Monkey King wrote:It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWokeRandomGuy96 wrote:He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
Re: Chichi's training (or lack there of)
Well, that's the Viz version, and that makes two mistakes. First by saying the Saibaiman are over 1,200 and second by saying they're equal to Raditz.
From Herms' strength checker:
From Herms' strength checker:
Rivaling doesn't mean to be equal. Given Toriyama's memo, Raditz must be superior to the Saibaiman. And with his battle power of 1,500 he's also superior to Yamcha at the time.8. Saibaimen [#SA2#BAI]
Chapter: 215 (DBZ 21), P1.3
Context: after Tenshinhan beats a Saibaiman
Nappa: “"I'm-impossible...!! The Saibaiman's battle power is 1,200...!! Going just by power, he rivals Raditz...!!"
Vegeta: “So [Tenshinhan]'s battle power surpasses that. A simple calculation.”
I'm re-watching Dragon Ball GT in full on my blog. Check it out if you're interested in my thoughts on the series as I watch through it!
Re: Chichi's training (or lack there of)
In the link for the Saibaimen I provided, it's explained. The Japanese term used there doesn't necessarily mean "equal" in a strictly mathematical sense. It more means "close to" or "on-par with."
deviantART
FanFic: DragonBall GT Revised [thread]
Powar Levuls: Main Series | Movies and Specials | GT
Nintendo/PSN/Steam: KaboomKrusader
ACNH Dream Address: DA-1637-4046-7415 ("SlamZone")
(Not) lost (enough) DB Super plots!
A handy video guide to Kanzenshuu-level grammar quality!
FanFic: DragonBall GT Revised [thread]
Powar Levuls: Main Series | Movies and Specials | GT
Nintendo/PSN/Steam: KaboomKrusader
ACNH Dream Address: DA-1637-4046-7415 ("SlamZone")
(Not) lost (enough) DB Super plots!
A handy video guide to Kanzenshuu-level grammar quality!
- goku the krump dancer
- I Live Here
- Posts: 3571
- Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2009 10:34 pm
Re: Chichi's training (or lack there of)
You know, I think it'd be pretty cool to see the Son family fight Vegeta together. The Mother, Father, son trio vs the Prince of all Saiyans.
It's not too late. One day, it will be.
Peace And Power MF DOOM!
Peace and Power Kevin Samuels
Peace And Power MF DOOM!
Peace and Power Kevin Samuels