The General Fan Theory Thread

[Gog]

That still doesn't explain why Piccolo can't get this hypothetical KK = MSS after fighting Goku for 3 years.

And why it seems to be exclusive to Saiyans. If it's just a mastered version of Kaioken, even the humans should be able to do it. If it's so simple that a 5 year old can copy it just by seeing it once, surely the others should also be able to do it easily. And also why it coincidentally only ever happens in the case of emotional duress of some sort except in the case of the kid SSJs.

And also how all the other Super Saiyans we get outside of the main series got it. Broly and Bardock, for example.

Well, that's like asking how come Mr. Satan can't use the Kamehameha. Saiyans rule, lol.

After for the other dudes you mentioned, non-canon, of course, lol.

But that still doesn't answer anything. Mastering the Kaio Ken technique is something that took ages for Goku ages to do, saying that Saiyan's rule is simply not a suitable answer for that. Especially with the existence of Goten, Trunks, Gohan, Goten and Cabba. Your fan theory, still falls apart with even a minimal amount of observation.

[TheUltimateNinja]

My fan theory: SSBlue isn't a true God transformation since it was stated that mortals can't damage Gods, yet SSBlue Goku and Vegeta get damaged by mortals all the time so it's likely a hybrid transformation.

[ekrolo2]

My fan theory: SSBlue isn't a true God transformation since it was stated that mortals can't damage Gods, yet SSBlue Goku and Vegeta get damaged by mortals all the time so it's likely a hybrid transformation.

Is that true? Cause mortals damage Gods all the time before Beerus shows up and Champa got scared when Goku and Hit both gave him the evil eye for the fat bastard. There's also Trunks killing Zamasu.

[s-shield]

But that still doesn't answer anything. Mastering the Kaio Ken technique is something that took ages for Goku ages to do, saying that Saiyan's rule is simply not a suitable answer for that. Especially with the existence of Goten, Trunks, Gohan, Goten and Cabba. Your fan theory, still falls apart with even a minimal amount of observation.

Not sure what you're driving at, but if you see my last few posts on the subject, you might find what you're looking for, lol. Ultimate Ninja was saying if SSJ was just a mastered KK, then everyone could do it, even humans. My argument was humans can't even do KK, much less SSJ. The reason: The Saiyan's unmatched potential for combat, which is only mentioned like 57 thousand times in the series, lol. Hence= Saiyans Rule. Also, at what point do we see Goku struggle to learn Kaio Ken? For all we know, he did it the second King Kai described it to him.

[s-shield]

How do you explain SSJ2 then?

In general, you mean? Goku and Gohan "trick" their bodies into thinking they are in their natural/base state, allowing Gohan to transform into a Super Saiyan again, while already a Super Saiyan. Hence, Super Saiyan 2.

[TheUltimateNinja]

My fan theory: SSBlue isn't a true God transformation since it was stated that mortals can't damage Gods, yet SSBlue Goku and Vegeta get damaged by mortals all the time so it's likely a hybrid transformation.

Is that true? Cause mortals damage Gods all the time before Beerus shows up and Champa got scared when Goku and Hit both gave him the evil eye for the fat bastard. There's also Trunks killing Zamasu.

It seems they totally forgot about it after Resurrection F, but it was stated in BoG.

[s-shield]

Or Toriyama's just bringing a concept in then dropping it immediately afterward. Remember how long charging your attacks and removing weighted clothing mattered?

Besides, Piccolo makes ridiculous strength gains at a much higher rate or comparable one to the Saiyan's until he fuses with Kami. He spends a few days on King Kai's and goes from 2500-3000 to at the very least well over ten times that in a time span significantly shorter than Goku does. He also goes from the low millions to being almost comperable to the Android era Super Saiyans just from three years of sparring with Goku and Gohan.

Agreeing with all this. Also not sure what we're arguing about anymore, lol. Something about Super Saiyan Piccolo? Piccolo's badassdom was never in question, not by me, anyway!

[ekrolo2]

My fan theory: SSBlue isn't a true God transformation since it was stated that mortals can't damage Gods, yet SSBlue Goku and Vegeta get damaged by mortals all the time so it's likely a hybrid transformation.

Is that true? Cause mortals damage Gods all the time before Beerus shows up and Champa got scared when Goku and Hit both gave him the evil eye for the fat bastard. There's also Trunks killing Zamasu.

It seems they totally forgot about it after Resurrection F, but it was stated in BoG.

BoG the movie? That can't be right there since Vegeta manages to make Beerus bleed in it.

[floofychan333]

Here's one more of mine: Dr Flappe and Dr Gero could be the same person. They both look somewhat similar and since Dr Gero was stated to have created all the androids yet Dr Flappe created Android 8, I feel like they could be the same person rather than having collaborated.

[s-shield]

BoG the movie? That can't be right there since Vegeta manages to make Beerus bleed in it.

Beerus says that Vegeta sure has gotten strong, but that this Ki thing they use to power their attacks doesn't do crap against gods. Later, Vegeta rages out and wounds Beerus with PHYSICAL attacks. Can't remember if it happens like this in the movie, but in the manga, when Vegeta then switches to using a huge Ki attack to close the fight, Beerus rolls his eyes and sighs, with the attack doing no damage.

[Gog]

Well, that's like asking how come Mr. Satan can't use the Kamehameha. Saiyans rule, lol.

After for the other dudes you mentioned, non-canon, of course, lol.

But that still doesn't answer anything. Mastering the Kaio Ken technique is something that took ages for Goku ages to do, saying that Saiyan's rule is simply not a suitable answer for that. Especially with the existence of Goten, Trunks, Gohan, Goten and Cabba. Your fan theory, still falls apart with even a minimal amount of observation.

Not sure what you're driving at, but if you see my last few posts on the subject, you might find what you're looking for, lol. Ultimate Ninja was saying if SSJ was just a mastered KK, then everyone could do it, even humans. My argument was humans can't even do KK, much less SSJ. The reason: The Saiyan's unmatched potential for combat, which is only mentioned like 57 thousand times in the series, lol. Hence= Saiyans Rule. Also, at what point do we see Goku struggle to learn Kaio Ken? For all we know, he did it the second King Kai described it to him.

I understand but here's the thing Kaio Ken only requires you to to have a body strong enough to withstand the strain. That's it there is literally no reason for the human's to be incapable of performing the same legendary feat that the Saiyans have accomplished, hell by you're logic Freeza could theoretically go super saiyan. And your reason of the saiyans unmatched battle potential being the reason for why they still falls short when the mechanics of the Kaio Ken require you to be strong enough to withstand the strain of it.

Hell if Super Saiyan is simply a mastered Kaio Ken then why didn't Buu immediately learn how to do it after seeing Goku use it against him?

Also if Saiyans are capable of learning techniques instantly then why the hell did Goten and Trunks struggle to learn the fusion dance. Also Cabba still completely breaks down your theory when he ascended to the super saiyan form through anger.

[s-shield]

I understand but here's the thing Kaio Ken only requires you to to have a body strong enough to withstand the strain. That's it there is literally no reason for the human's to be incapable of performing the same legendary feat that the Saiyans have accomplished, hell by you're logic Freeza could theoretically go super saiyan. And your reason of the saiyans unmatched battle potential being the reason for why they still falls short when the mechanics of the Kaio Ken require you to be strong enough to withstand the strain of it.

Hell if Super Saiyan is simply a mastered Kaio Ken then why didn't Buu immediately learn how to do it after seeing Goku use it against him?

Also if Saiyans are capable of learning techniques instantly then why the hell did Goten and Trunks struggle to learn the fusion dance. Also Cabba still completely breaks down your theory when he ascended to the super saiyan form through anger.

To be fair, Neko Majin Z does go Super Saiyan after seeing done, despite not being a Saiyan, lol.

Also, Fusion Dance required complex physical movement synced with another person, not just Ki-manipulation like most transformations. They did learn SSJ3 after only seeing/feeling it done once, tho...

As for the Cabba thing, I never said anger wasn't also instrumental to the initial Super Saiyan change. But again, he only does it after seeing Vegeta do it...

As for everyone else in the universe, I think both our arguments stand. Yes, there is no reason Freeza and Yamcha can't use Kaio-Ken (or Super Saiyan), beyond the fact that they haven't "got what it takes" in terms of surviving ki-stress thru multiplication. Freeza has to physically become a different being to gain his power, and his full power up essentially USSJ's him, causing him to Hulk out. Even going one step beyond that into Golden form destroys his stamina. Freeza was born with a big... um "Tail", he just doesn't know how to use it.

For what it's worth, I get that you might be so into the whole Legendary status of the Super Saiyan form that you don't want it to be denigrated in anyway to a mere technique. Which is cool, my head-canon is not your head-canon, lol.

[Gog]

To be fair, Neko Majin Z does go Super Saiyan after seeing done, despite not being a Saiyan, lol.

Also, Fusion Dance required complex physical movement synced with another person, not just Ki-manipulation like most transformations. They did learn SSJ3 after only seeing/feeling it done once, tho...

As for the Cabba thing, I never said anger wasn't also instrumental to the initial Super Saiyan change. But again, he only does it after seeing Vegeta do it...

As for everyone else in the universe, I think both our arguments stand. Yes, there is no reason Freeza and Yamcha can't use Kaio-Ken (or Super Saiyan), beyond the fact that they haven't "got what it takes" in terms of surviving ki-stress thru multiplication. Freeza has to physically become a different being to gain his power, and his full power up essentially USSJ's him, causing him to Hulk out. Even going one step beyond that into Golden form destroys his stamina. Freeza was born with a big... um "Tail", he just doesn't know how to use it.

For what it's worth, I get that you might be so into the whole Legendary status of the Super Saiyan form that you don't want it to be denigrated in anyway to a mere technique. Which is cool, my head-canon is not your head-canon, lol.

A complete and utter gag. Don't take the entirety of that book seriously.

Yes, you have a point. But we just don't know regarding the Kaio Ken technique. Then why didn't Vegeta never learn how to go super saiyan 3 after seeing/feeling it done once by Goku, tho...

Then that makes even less sense as you've been stating that Super Saiyan is just simply a mastered Kaio Ken. What do you mean? Cabba saw both Goku and Vegeta transform into the form before hand and he didn't immediately transform into a super saiyan. He transformed into a super saiyan when Vegeta threatened to go to planet salada and kill his family.

You just don't have any evidence pointing to the idea of Super Saiyan being a mastered form of Kaio Ken. Hell if super saiyan is a mastered version of kaio ken then why didn't Goku when he went super saiyan blue Kaio ken have a golden aura instead of a red aura? Hell if Super Saiyan is a mastered form of Kaio Ken then super saiyan blue kaio ken is literally impossible.

And that's not even touching upon Akira Toriyama's comments on how if you use Kaio Ken and Super Saiyan together it kills the user. His statement just would not function if Kaio Ken and Super saiyan were the same thing.

But here's the thing with Freeza, he can lower his power, to a level that does not drain is stamina. And the Ultimate evolution was a form that had not been mastered. Super Saiyan Freeza is still something completly possible with your theory. Hell he could do it better than all of the saiyans as his body is just leagues above there's in durability.

And you still haven't addressed the fact, that if super saiyan is a technique then why didn't Cell just instantly learn it. Like he did the instant transmission technique? Why didn't Buuhan not learn and use it? He had Goten and Trunks in him and according to you Super Saiyan is a technique and heck why didn't Kid Buu learn it and use it after seeing Goku and Vegeta use it? Like he did with the instant transmission technique.

I have no problem with the idea that Super Saiyan is a technique. It's just the fact that your fan theory falls apart once you observe it.

[s-shield]

et al.

Yeah, the Neko Majin Z comment was a joke, don't worry, lol. But it does show that the idea was floating around Toriyama's head in some fashion...

And my initial point was not that Super Saiyan was JUST a mastered Kaio-Ken, but a Kaio-Ken merged with the Transforming technique Freeza uses. Goku, out of options, essentially does a Kaio-Ken x50, and out of desperation tries to do "whatever the hell Freeza was doing to power up" to lock it down. Because that's all Super Saiyan is... a locked down Kaio-Ken x50. To start with anyway. And then they break the chain connecting it to their base, and then they keep adding multipliers on top of that, blah blah blah, etc etc.

As for why Vegeta can't go SSJ3, since you brought it up, Goku could only discover it because he was dead and couldn't die from exhaustion (and it's usefulness was severally hampered once he was fully alive again), and Gotenks could only do it because he was fused and had two bodies to share the burden. Regular Saiyans under regular circumstances can't achieve that form, for my money.

As for Cabba, again, I never said anger wasn't a factor in becoming an SSJ for the first time. For all we know, Trunks and Goten had to punch each other in the face a few times to get angry before they could do it the first time. But seeing as Cabba didn't even know what a Super Saiyan was until he saw our guys do it, kind of proves it's not just a given for Saiyans. Goku invented it, and every Saiyan we see in canon can only do it after seeing someone else who's already seen Goku do it.

As for KK's combo with SSJ or SSJB, it's kind of simple. If your Ki is already compressed 50x, adding another separate compression field to that without a physical transformation would be deadly, I'd get that. I think you are a tad hung up on one sentence I wrote, lol, about SSJ being a mastered KK, which I get. A better wording on my part would have been Goku took the principles of the Kaio-Ken and expanded upon/improved them when he created what we call Super Saiyan.

As for why the bad guys don't do it. Frieza thinks it's the legendary Super Saiyan, why would he try? Same for Cell and the smarter Buus. I also maintain that Cell and Buu's power doesn't operate like standard Ki, but that's just more head-canon on my part, we don't have to get into that here, lol.

Just a bit of context/background, and maybe you can help me with this: If Super Saiyan, as we see it in the series, is a legendary transformation that Saiyans in the past have done before and birthed a legend... why doesn't the legend say what a Super Saiyan looks like? Why does Vegeta, on 3 separate occasions during the Namek Saga declare himself or someone else a Super Saiyan, when they clearly are not? Seems like a simple line to the legend "They were blonde" could have solved a lot of confusion, lol. Maybe that means the Super Saiyan Legend was just that, or it was talking about some particularly strong Oozaroos or some guy who got beat down enough times to get enough zenkai's to outclass all the other Saiyans at the time. That is the initial thought that led me down this path and arriving at this theory: Goku took several techniques he had seen/learned recently and in a moment of desperation invented the Super Saiyan as we know it. Any thoughts?

[Gog]

Yeah, the Neko Majin Z comment was a joke, don't worry, lol. But it does show that the idea was floating around Toriyama's head in some fashion...

It really wasn't an idea floating around in his head. And if it was it was just a complete and utter 100% gag

And my initial point was not that Super Saiyan was JUST a mastered Kaio-Ken, but a Kaio-Ken merged with the Transforming technique Freeza uses. Goku, out of options, essentially does a Kaio-Ken x50, and out of desperation tries to do "whatever the hell Freeza was doing to power up" to lock it down. Because that's all Super Saiyan is... a locked down Kaio-Ken x50. To start with anyway. And then they break the chain connecting it to their base, and then they keep adding multipliers on top of that, blah blah blah, etc etc.

But how was Freeza's transformations a technique? It was a biological ability that only he, King Cold and potentially a few others were capable of doing. If Goku used a kaio ken times fifty his body would break down and doing whatever the hell Freeza was doing to power up. Was powering up normally, unless your referring to when Goku was in the healing pod. But even then it makes no sense as transforming is a biological ability, that you just cannot learn. If Super Saiyan is a lock down Kaio ken x50 then why the hell wasn't Goku's body collapsing. Because that is how Kaio Ken functions, if they kept on adding multipliers above it, they would explode.

As for why Vegeta can't go SSJ3, since you brought it up, Goku could only discover it because he was dead and couldn't die from exhaustion (and it's usefulness was severally hampered once he was fully alive again), and Gotenks could only do it because he was fused and had two bodies to share the burden. Regular Saiyans under regular circumstances can't achieve that form, for my money.

Eh, nothing to say here.

As for Cabba, again, I never said anger wasn't a factor in becoming an SSJ for the first time. For all we know, Trunks and Goten had to punch each other in the face a few times to get angry before they could do it the first time. But seeing as Cabba didn't even know what a Super Saiyan was until he saw our guys do it, kind of proves it's not just a given for Saiyans. Goku invented it, and every Saiyan we see in canon can only do it after seeing someone else who's already seen Goku do it.

But here's the thing Cabba never learned how to use Kaio Ken. Because if he could then he would have used it in his battle against Vegeta but he never did. And then there's Future Gohan who never actually learned the Kaio Ken technique, hell regular Gohan never actually used the kaio ken technique once. hell your entire statement of Saiyans being able to instantly learn the Kaio Ken technique falls apart when you realize no other Saiyan besides Goku, has ever once used it. Hell shouldn't kid Gohan be able to use the kaio ken as he's a Saiyan? Sure would have been useful. And that proves exactly nothing as Cabba never actually used, or learned the Kaio Ken technique and he only ever unlocked it by getting angry.

But here's the thing you have to learn the kaio ken technique to learn the mastered version in the similar vein of Super Saiyan to full powered Super Saiyan.

As for KK's combo with SSJ or SSJB, it's kind of simple. If your Ki is already compressed 50x, adding another separate compression field to that without a physical transformation would be deadly, I'd get that. I think you are a tad hung up on one sentence I wrote, lol, about SSJ being a mastered KK, which I get. A better wording on my part would have been Goku took the principles of the Kaio-Ken and expanded upon/improved them when he created what we call Super Saiyan.

You haven't actually explained why he could use Kaio Ken and Super Saiyan blue togethor as they are apparently the same thing, just ones better. But that makes no sense in essence, because how in the blue hell's was Goku able to instantly take the principles of Kaio Ken and magically improve it too the point of Super Saiyan, in a matter of seconds. He can't just get very angry and push it too Kaio Ken times fifty as that would destroy his body regardless. It just does not work.

As for why the bad guys don't do it. Frieza thinks it's the legendary Super Saiyan, why would he try? Same for Cell and the smarter Buus. I also maintain that Cell and Buu's power doesn't operate like standard Ki, but that's just more head-canon on my part, we don't have to get into that here, lol.

Actually Freeza can't get it as he never learned the Kaio Ken technique. You could make a point for Cell, but there is no reason for Buuhan or Buutenks to not go super saiyan as they had just literally adsorbed Goten, Trunks and Gohan. Learning all of their techniques which is something that Super Saiyan is supposed to be here.

Just a bit of context/background, and maybe you can help me with this: If Super Saiyan, as we see it in the series, is a legendary transformation that Saiyans in the past have done before and birthed a legend... why doesn't the legend say what a Super Saiyan looks like? Why does Vegeta, on 3 separate occasions during the Namek Saga declare himself or someone else a Super Saiyan, when they clearly are not? Seems like a simple line to the legend "They were blonde" could have solved a lot of confusion, lol. Maybe that means the Super Saiyan Legend was just that, or it was talking about some particularly strong Oozaroos or some guy who got beat down enough times to get enough zenkai's to outclass all the other Saiyans at the time. That is the initial thought that led me down this path and arriving at this theory: Goku took several techniques he had seen/learned recently and in a moment of desperation invented the Super Saiyan as we know it. Any thoughts?

[/quote]

It's really simple, the legend was passed down over the years, to the point of where any distinction like Golden hair and blue eyes simply faded away into obscurity. Stuff like this happens all the time. Except for the fact that Goku ascended to the Legendary Super Saiyan, so it's clearly not just simply a legend at all. But here's the thing your idea that the Super Saiyan form is a technique just does not work from what we see in the show. It's a neat little fan theory. But that's it when nearly all of your points are you just reaching, it stops being a fan theory and becomes a head canon.

[s-shield]

et al.

Firstly and simply, it was never NOT head-canon, lol.

And yes, the idea of non-Saiyans turning Super Saiyan WAS an idea in Toriyama's head... because he wrote it in a story. And yes, it was 100% a gag.

As for Freeza's transformations being strictly biological in nature: Clearly something is also happening to his Ki, as it grows and shrinks accordingly. Oozaroo is the same thing. Super Saiyan is also a biological transformation, I'd maintain: a physical transformation that allows him to survive higher forms of ki-compression or multiplication, the principles of which he learned from the Kaio-Ken.

Again, Super Saiyan is clearly the same concept as Kaio-Ken, in terms of functionality, at least story-wise. It's just Kaio-Ken x50, with a transformation/alteration to the body to allow it to survive the added stress. You asked how he could survive going Kaio-Ken x50? Because he's not JUST going Kaio-Ken x50. He's ALSO copying whatever happens to Frieza's ki when his body transforms. He never saw Frieza transform, so he didn't get it in his head that it was a grotesque metamorphosis. He FELT Frieza transform three times, and just thought it was some neat new way to power up, and that's how the idea got into his head. He turned Frieza's own trick against him.

(Also, you are kind of agreeing with me when you argue Frieza's transformations and Super Saiyan are biological metamorphosis (like a caterpillar and a butterfly) in that Goku could still have learned to do it from Frieza)

And as for everyone not knowing the Kaio-Ken, they don't have to. They've already seen an improved version, why would they need to know that? It's like having Windows 98, and having to download XP before you can download Vista. You can just jump to the newest version available, lol.

And just to be clear, in no way am I trying to assert that THIS /\ is what Toriyama intended when he created Super Saiyan. Clearly Goku was just meant to be going Legendary Super Saiyan. But since clearly going Super Saiyan is just going Kaio-Ken x50 and NOT dying, I had to wonder "Hmm, maybe they are connected." Again, head-canon. And there's not enough in the canon manga to contradict my idea. So that's that, lol.

And to be fair, you could flip my point and argue that the only reason Goku was able to master Kaio-Ken (even over the guy who invented it) was because his body was already predisposed to that kind of multiplication, i.e. Kaio-Ken was him struggling to activate his Super Saiyan gene. Maybe even toss Rage-Out Gohan in on this concept too... brainstorming.... lol

Seeing as how I've explain in some detail what I think Super Saiyan is, and what all the mechanics behind it are, would you do me the courtesy of explaining what you think is going on when Goku turns SSJ?

[Gog]

et al.

Seeing as how I've explain in some detail what I think Super Saiyan is, and all what the mechanics behind it are, would you do me the courtesy of explaining what you think is going on when Goku turns SSJ?

Seeing how you agree with the idea of Super Saiyan basically being kaio ken being complete and utter head canon. I don't feel any need to argue with you on that point, as you've admitted to it being head canon. But I love explaining useless things.

The super saiyan transformation is a form triggered by high levels of stress and anger, think of it as a sort of fight or flight mechanism. However I also believe that the first Super Saiyan was a complete and utter mutation, he, or she passed on the genetic mutation to her or his children and they spread the genes to they're children. And because the Saiyan population is just so pathetically small I would imagine that wouldn't have taken long. Just think of it like how Freeza achieves his forms.

But there is a catch of course, you have to to be strong enough to unlock the form.

[s-shield]

The super saiyan transformation is a form triggered by high levels of stress and anger, think of it as a sort of fight or flight mechanism. However I also believe that the first Super Saiyan was a complete and utter mutation, he, or she passed on the genetic mutation to her or his children and they spread the genes to they're children. And because the Saiyan population is just so pathetically small I would imagine that wouldn't have taken long. Just think of it like how Freeza achieves his forms.

But there is a catch of course, you have to to be strong enough to unlock the form.

I like the fight-or-flight angle of it, and mutation in the DBZ universe is something I've been fond of since Ginyu mentioned he and the members of his squad were mutants, and he theorized Goku was one too.

I'm still not 100% on board with the idea everyone just "forgot" what a super saiyan looked like over time, given that all saiyans looks alike, so any difference in appearance would be a huge deal. And when facts become legends, things tend to be exaggerated rather than down-played. I would think if a Super Saiyan looked like a Super Saiyan 1000 years ago, by now, the legend would have him looking like an SSJ5, lol, and not like a regular joe.

Speaking of, how do you deal with the fact that there have been no Super Saiyans in a thousand years among a warrior race that lives to get stronger?

[Gog]

Speaking of, how do you deal with the fact that there have been no Super Saiyans in a thousand years among a warrior race that lives to get stronger?

I attribute it to the fact that Saiyans never got strong enough to ever ascend to the form. Vegeta was the strongest of the Saiyan's and he only had a powerlevel of 15K not even one eighth of what you'd need to ascend. Also Akira Toriyama did state that Saiyan's usually die young, so I could attribute that to the main reason for why they haven't managed to transform yet.

[s-shield]

Speaking of, how do you deal with the fact that there have been no Super Saiyans in a thousand years among a warrior race that lives to get stronger?

I attribute it to the fact that Saiyans never got strong enough to ever ascend to the form. Vegeta was the strongest of the Saiyan's and he only had a powerlevel of 15K not even one eighth of what you'd need to ascend. Also Akira Toriyama did state that Saiyan's usually die young, so I could attribute that to the main reason for why they haven't managed to transform yet.

Hmm, saiyans dying young is a pretty good idea... I mean, without senzu, there's probably very few occasions where an old school saiyan would get a zenkai boost. Anything strong enough to kill him probably would, lol. You could argue that only starts to change when they join Freeza's crew, who have access to healing tanks, which is like a senzu bean that takes a few hours to work. Once those come into play, you start getting that last generation of saiyans who keep getting stronger and stronger, most likely thru zenkai, which is what freaks Frieza out to the point he just says "screw it" and kills them all.

And while I hate the idea that both SSJ and SSG were legends in saiyan culture, or at least things that happened before (I would rather SSG be a totally new thing), I still would have liked it if, in BoG, Shenlong had said that the evil saiyans of long ago were all Super Saiyans, and that the good-hearted Super Saiyan God wiped them all out, which is why it took a thousand years for that gene to reemerge.