Vegeta's complex and inability to surpass Kakarot

[DBZ Macky]

He got a head start over his rival Kakarot and trained with Whis for 6 months before Goku came along. And he did the same exact training as Goku afterwards. In fact, it's shown that he trained even more when Goku was asleep. So how come he still manages to get surpassed by Goku yet again in the Goku Black arc, where he's considered "just an appetizer" by Black while Goku is "the main course"

Goku is obviously more talented than Vegeta, yet Vegeta still thinks that he should be superior because of his royal blood. This is downright delusional. Vegeta not only has an inferiority complex but apparently, also a superiority complex at the same time. Can something like this even exist in real life?

[Doctor.]

He got a head start over his rival Kakarot and trained with Whis for 6 months before Goku came along.

He had a lot of catching up to do, let's not forget.

And he did the same exact training as Goku afterwards. In fact, it's shown that he trained even more when Goku was asleep.

The F arc portrays Vegeta to be slightly ahead of Goku (as opposed to the movie). First, Goku outright states Vegeta may be stronger than him when he arrives. Then, Vegeta is the first one to figure Freeza's flaw.

So how come he still manages to get surpassed by Goku yet again in the Goku Black arc, where he's considered "just an appetizer" by Black while Goku is "the main course"

I don't think power has anything to do with it. Regardless of who's stronger, it's by a very tiny amount, they're portrayed as equals. Black considers Vegeta an appetizer and Goku the main course, because his backstory is all about Goku, not Vegeta.

Goku is obviously more talented than Vegeta, yet Vegeta still thinks that he should be superior because of his royal blood. This is downright delusional. Vegeta not only has an inferiority complex but apparently, also a superiority complex at the same time. Can something like this even exist in real life?

A quick search finds that a superiority complex is heavily linked with an inferiority complex. "If a person is a show-off, it is only because she or he feels inferior because she or he does not feel strong enough to compete with others on the useful side of life. That is why she or he stays on the useless side. She or he is not in harmony with society. It seems to be a trait of human nature that when individuals – both children and adults – feel weak, they want to solve the problems of life in such a way as to obtain personal superiority without any admixture of social interest. A superiority complex is a second phase. It is a compensation for the inferiority [feeling] complex."

[Beyond]

Why use both goku and kakarot?

On topic, Vegeta will never be as strong as Goku because he like everyone else refuses to learn kaioken, and Goku's always the special snowflake with his master. Vegeta needs to train with someone that's not training Goku, so he can be the snowflake.

[sintzu]

Vegeta will never be as strong as Goku because he like everyone else refuses to learn kaioken.

This is why no one will surpass Goku without it. even if Vegeta, Gohan or anyone else is 10× stronger than Goku, all he needs to do is use the Kaioken ×20 to not only catch up to them but also surpass them.

[pacz360]

Goku and vegeta are pretty much been equals ever since f with the only thing that puts goku ahead is kaioken.

[nickzambuto]

I'm not current with Super, so excuse me if I'm wrong, but haven't the two been going tit for tat, if not Vegeta occasionally pulling ahead while Goku has to scramble to catch up?

In the Battle of Gods retelling, Vegeta definitively surpassed Goku's Super Saiyan 3 after pushing Beerus back with rage. Beerus was actually impressed by Vegeta. Goku got to become a Super Saiyan God right after, but eventually Vegeta showed him up completely by becoming a god without needing a ritual. That's a pretty significant edge to Vegeta right there alone.

At this point, Goku stated that he thinks Vegeta might be slightly stronger. Goku never really surpasses Vegeta, at best they become even again after three years of sparring, although once he masters the Kaioken with his Blue form, Goku becomes superior.

However that didn't last long because now Vegeta has become massively stronger than even Black, a guy who treated Goku like canon fodder.

I don't know what training they've been up to for the current arc, whether Goku's caught back up or if Vegeta will keep a higher base while Goku uses Kaioken to match him, but it sounds to me like Vegeta has been getting more than his fair dues.

[TheUltimateNinja]

I'm not current with Super, so excuse me if I'm wrong, but haven't the two been going tit for tat, if not Vegeta occasionally pulling ahead while Goku has to scramble to catch up?

In the Battle of Gods retelling, Vegeta definitively surpassed Goku's Super Saiyan 3 after pushing Beerus back with rage. Beerus was actually impressed by Vegeta. Goku got to become a Super Saiyan God right after, but eventually Vegeta showed him up completely by becoming a god without needing a ritual. That's a pretty significant edge to Vegeta right there alone.

At this point, Goku stated that he thinks Vegeta might be slightly stronger. Goku never really surpasses Vegeta, at best they become even again after three years of sparring, although once he masters the Kaioken with his Blue form, Goku becomes superior.

However that didn't last long because now Vegeta has become massively stronger than even Black, a guy who treated Goku like canon fodder.

I don't know what training they've been up to for the current arc, whether Goku's caught back up or if Vegeta will keep a higher base while Goku uses Kaioken to match him, but it sounds to me like Vegeta has been getting more than his fair dues.

Goku surpassed Vegeta again in the Black Arc. His Kamehameha was more powerful than Vegeta & Trunks' combined Galick Gun.

[LightBing]

He got a head start over his rival Kakarot and trained with Whis for 6 months before Goku came along. And he did the same exact training as Goku afterwards. In fact, it's shown that he trained even more when Goku was asleep. So how come he still manages to get surpassed by Goku yet again in the Goku Black arc, where he's considered "just an appetizer" by Black while Goku is "the main course"

Goku is obviously more talented than Vegeta, yet Vegeta still thinks that he should be superior because of his royal blood. This is downright delusional. Vegeta not only has an inferiority complex but apparently, also a superiority complex at the same time. Can something like this even exist in real life?

If you're going by the Super anime, how do you know the power of the characters? Seems to me it's always different depending on the mood of the writers.
In the manga this isn't the case, as of last chapter: [spoiler]Vegeta is implied to be the stronger of the two.[/spoiler]

In Super, Vegeta hasn't brought up his royal blood at all, that's a trait from old Vegeta. I completely disagree about Goku being more talented than Vegeta. They are even, with each one having characteristics that edge one or the other out in several circumstances during the entirety of Dragon Ball.

[Saturnine]

Goku with Kaioken surpasses Vegeta dramatically, but without it Vegeta should actually be considerably ahead ever since he busted up the RoSaT from the inside.

[floofychan333]

Yeah, people can believe something illogical or something that has been disproven multiple times their entire life. Just look at flat-earthers!

[SingleFringe&Sparks]

I think its just the writers forgetting or that Goku always has to be the strongest just for the series to feel familiar or something. Its gotten to where Vegeta is forever stuck under Goku in both power and plot significance just because his character has been there for decades. Its just become formula for his character to be in that limbo and that same writing is what gives Goku such higher zenkai boosts and training gains over Vegeta.

Though this is the overall issue I have with their "rivalry" because of how one-sided it is. At nearly no point was Vegeta leading above Goku to where Goku was ever motivated the same way to surpass Vegeta. He always just was above him. Though with SSB it used to be implied that they were even and Vegeta's extra training closed the gap between them as he said they couldn't train that form any higher (assuming he meant transform on top of it) but then Kaioken x10 comes along. Goku just doesn't see Vegeta as anything but a fusion partner now.

[nickzambuto]

I think its just the writers forgetting or that Goku always has to be the strongest just for the series to feel familiar or something. Its gotten to where Vegeta is forever stuck under Goku in both power and plot significance just because his character has been there for decades. Its just become formula for his character to be in that limbo and that same writing is what gives Goku such higher zenkai boosts and training gains over Vegeta.

Though this is the overall issue I have with their "rivalry" because of how one-sided it is. At nearly no point was Vegeta leading above Goku to where Goku was ever motivated the same way to surpass Vegeta. He always just was above him. Though with SSB it used to be implied that they were even and Vegeta's extra training closed the gap between them as he said they couldn't train that form any higher (assuming he meant transform on top of it) but then Kaioken x10 comes along. Goku just doesn't see Vegeta as anything but a fusion partner now.

I disagree on their rivalry being one sided. After becoming the strongest man in the world and sitting on his butt for five years, it was the threat of the saiyans that kickstarted Goku's passion again and motivated him to make that Kaio-training leap. After the battle, Goku stated that Vegeta was the best fight he's ever had, and it was Vegeta's strength that motivated Goku to train under 100x gravity.

This marked the first instance of Goku surpassing Vegeta. Then Vegeta surpassed Goku again in the Freeza battle. Then Goku surpassed Vegeta again when he emerged from the healing tank.

Then in the androids arc, Vegeta surpassed Goku as a Super Saiyan, then surpassed him wildly by being the first to ascend. Goku ended the arc superior though, but I imagine Vegeta proving that surpassing Super Saiyan is possible was a big factor towards Goku's perfecting the idea.

Boo was the conclusion of their rivalry as far as the original manga goes. Vegeta closed the gap, only for Goku to reveal he has SSJ3 and ultimately win.

Until Super, where Vegeta surpassed SSJ3, then Goku became a god, then Vegeta surpassed god. They were both wrecked by Black but Vegeta was the one who came back and got revenge on Black.

And now the manga is implying that Vegeta is once again slightly ahead.

[TheMathemagician]

I think its just the writers forgetting or that Goku always has to be the strongest just for the series to feel familiar or something. Its gotten to where Vegeta is forever stuck under Goku in both power and plot significance just because his character has been there for decades. Its just become formula for his character to be in that limbo and that same writing is what gives Goku such higher zenkai boosts and training gains over Vegeta.

Though this is the overall issue I have with their "rivalry" because of how one-sided it is. At nearly no point was Vegeta leading above Goku to where Goku was ever motivated the same way to surpass Vegeta. He always just was above him. Though with SSB it used to be implied that they were even and Vegeta's extra training closed the gap between them as he said they couldn't train that form any higher (assuming he meant transform on top of it) but then Kaioken x10 comes along. Goku just doesn't see Vegeta as anything but a fusion partner now.

The problem mainly comes from just Goku himself. Goku himself reacts similarly to anyone stronger than him. He never had a problem with Vegeta being stronger than him, and seemed to take it far better than Vegeta ever did when it was the other way around. Goku acknowledges that Vegeta is stronger after Veggie exits the Time Chamber first, and doesn't really do much of anything. Then in BoG when Vegeta straight up flaunts how he surpassed Goku, Goku acknowledges himself with a big grin and then just moves on from it. Vegeta's was shown to be surprised by this reaction. Goku really just doesn't take it all that hard if someone is stronger. It's made worse with what you said in how the series keeps trying to portray them as rivals, and have Vegeta be competitive with Goku but it just doesn't work what with Goku caring very little about Veggie as a rival, and then there's the added fact that even if SSB Vegeta > SSB Goku, all that means is full power Vegeta is stronger than a not full power Goku. I don't really care if SSB Vegeta is stronger than SSB Goku because ever since the Champa Saga, Goku has always been stronger than Vegeta. If they want to make this "rivalry" believable they need to give Goku more incentive to care about Vegeta as a rival, and actually make it competitive. As it stands, it's pretty poorly written.