Vegeta is a jobber does he rightfully deserve it?

[sintzu]

What's happening in Future Trunks' timeline is ultimately his business to deal with. Not Vegeta's.

Goku and Trunks don't do everything though. They get arses kick by Goku Black and Zamasu just as badly as Vegeta does and just as frequently.

We've already seen Vegeta grind Goku Black into the dirt. Why should I/we be invested or interested in seeing it again ?

Trunks isn't on Black's level so the next logical step would be for his father to take over.

It doesn't matter, they both got long epic team fights while Vegeta was just sitting on the side.

Because we never see him get the upper hand on a main villain like this. The only time before that was Golden Freeza who had no power left. This was the very first time Vegeta got a main villain all to himself from start to finish.

[Lord Beerus]

What's happening in Future Trunks' timeline is ultimately his business to deal with. Not Vegeta's.

Goku and Trunks don't do everything though. They get arses kick by Goku Black and Zamasu just as badly as Vegeta does and just as frequently.

We've already seen Vegeta grind Goku Black into the dirt. Why should I/we be invested or interested in seeing it again ?

Trunks isn't on Black's level so the next logical step would be for his father to take over.

It doesn't matter, they both got long epic team fights while Vegeta was just sitting on the side.

Because we never see him get the upper hand on a main villain like this. The only time before that was Golden Freeza who had no power left. This was the very first time Vegeta got a main villain all to himself from start to finish.

Why does the responsibility have to fall with Vegeta specifically? There are other Saiyans who could fight.

Goku and Trunks team up for like 30 seconds and still get their arses kicked. After that it's a case of Goku, Vegeta and Future Trunks each taking another crack at the whip collectively.

Let me reiterate myself: I have no problem with Vegeta getting the upper on the villain. But don't let the main villain be on the receiving end of a one-sided beatdown in his/her first major fight against the main cast. That's a terrible way of building up a villain. If you're gonna have the main villain be on the ropes is his/her first major encounter, be smart about it. Have the villain use dirty tricks or various degrees of cunning and strategy to evade or outsmart his/her opponents so he/she can come back truly prepared to fight (Imperfect Cell and Super Boo), or have the villain have some transformations up his/her sleeve to constantly subvert the expectations of the cast (Freeza), or just have him/her flat out no-sell that shit (Anime Goku Black). Don't have him/her on the verge of death in the first fight. That's just sloppy writing.

[sintzu]

Why does the responsibility have to fall with Vegeta specifically? There are other Saiyans who could fight.

Goku and Trunks team up for like 30 seconds and still get their arses kicked. After that it's a case of Goku, Vegeta and Future Trunks each taking another crack at the whip collectively.

Those other saiyans have a lot more to their name than Vegeta does. Goku is the face of the franchise, he's taken down every villain from day one minus Cell. Z had 13 movies and not once did Vegeta get anything major to do. with that many movies, would it have hurt to give him 1 ? Trunks killed Mecha Freeza who at the time was still the main villain of the story then saved his timeline by killing Cell and the 2 androids. Now Trunks is the face of the video games. Vegeta ? he's better off than the rest of the cast but it wasn't until the manga's Black arc where we could finally say he got a main villain for himself and he was the protagonist of a story. When you look at how popular he is and all the character development he got it's surprising it took them this long to give him that.

In both cases Vegeta got the short end of the stick.

[Lord Beerus]

Why does the responsibility have to fall with Vegeta specifically? There are other Saiyans who could fight.

Goku and Trunks team up for like 30 seconds and still get their arses kicked. After that it's a case of Goku, Vegeta and Future Trunks each taking another crack at the whip collectively.

Those other saiyans have a lot more to their name than Vegeta does. Goku is the face of the franchise, he's taken down every villain from day one minus Cell. Z had 13 movies and not once did Vegeta get anything major to do. with that many movies, would it have hurt to give him 1 ? Trunks killed Mecha Freeza who at the time was still the main villain of the story then saved his timeline by killing Cell and the 2 androids. Now Trunks is the face of the video games. Vegeta ? he's better off than the rest of the cast but it wasn't until the manga's Black arc where we could finally say he got a main villain for himself and he was the protagonist of a story. When you look at how popular he is and all the character development he got it's surprising it took them this long to give him that.

In both cases Vegeta got the short end of the stick.

Okay a few things to note:
- Goku did not kill every major villain on his own. He lost to Vegeta, Future Trunks killed Freeza and it was a team effort to defeat Majin Boo.
- Since when was Future Trunks the face of the videogame franchise?
- Out of the fifteen Z movies, Vegeta has appeared in 8 of them, and had an integral role in most of them:
-- In DBZ Movie 6, he prevents Metal Cooler from killing Goku on two separate occasion and provides a major assist in killing him
-- In DBZ Movie 8, he provides the crucial amount of energy needed for Goku to kill Broly
-- In DBZ Movie 12, he saves Goku and fuses with him to kill Janemba and practically save all of reality
-- In DBZ Movie 13, he saved several people from dying in a building from Hirudegarn
-- In DBZ Movie 14, he beats ups Beerus and prevents Beerus from destroying the Earth before Goku arrived
-- In DBZ Movie 15, he beats up Golden Freeza
***Doing something major in the plot isn't just limited to defeating the main villain.

[sintzu]

Okay a few things to note:
- Goku did not kill every major villain on his own. He lost to Vegeta, Future Trunks killed Freeza and it was a team effort to defeat Majin Boo.
- Since when was Future Trunks the face of the videogame franchise?
- Out of the fifteen Z movies, Vegeta has appeared in 8 of them, and had an integral role in most of them:
-- In DBZ Movie 6, he prevents Metal Cooler from killing Goku on two separate occasion and provides a major assist in killing him
-- In DBZ Movie 8, he provides the crucial amount of energy needed for Goku to kill Broly
-- In DBZ Movie 12, he saves Goku and fuses with him to kill Janemba and practically save all of reality
-- In DBZ Movie 13, he saved several people from dying in a building from Hirudegarn
-- In DBZ Movie 14, he beats ups Beerus and prevents Beerus from destroying the Earth before Goku arrived
-- In DBZ Movie 15, he beats up Golden Freeza
***Doing something major in the plot isn't just limited to defeating the main villain.

I know what he did before and have pointed it out while defending him, I'm just saying that what he got this time around is something he never got before.

[DBZAOTA482]

He definitely deserved it in Z because most of his jobbing was brought upon himself and he gained much needed humidity from it in the end. Beyond that... not really.

[SaiyanGod117]

He definitely deserved it in Z because most of his jobbing was brought upon himself and he gained much needed humidity from it in the end. Beyond that... not really.

I hope he gets a few crucial wins this arc.

[TheMathemagician]

In entire franchise he was the only villain they couldn't defeat, instead it was him not thinking about where Gohan would fall after HE cut off his tail. if he would've moved they would've been done. they survived on luck, nothing more.

In the Freeza arc he was the 2nd strongest "hero" after Goku.

In the Cell arc Gohan couldn't have killed Cell without him distracting him.

In the Buu arc his job was just to hold Kid Buu off Goku and he did that.

In BOG he was the only one to be able to do anything to Beerus, he also surpassed Goku while doing so.

In the RF arc he was the only one who was able to beat down Freeza.

In the Champa arc he got 4 fights in the tournament.

In the manga's Black arc he was the only one who fought Black, making him the arc's main protagonist, something that's never happened before for him or anyone else and Black the 1st villain Goku didn't fight.

Yeah, what a jobber.

Lol at him being the only villain they couldn't beat. They did defeat him. Him being beaten due to luck doesn't change the fact Gohan ended up crushing and defeating him. Not to mention it also took a lot of luck for them to even defeat Freeza. Then let's not even manage they never beat Beerus, Hit, or Merged Zamasu. Also, being the second strongest doesn't mean he isn't a jobber. He gets curbstomped in the Frieza Saga by Recoome, only to soil himself when Goku one-shots him and clears the Ginyu Force. He's then beaten within an inch of his life by Frieza and is forced to beg his 2nd most hated opponent to take care of Frieza. Hell, you can be the main character and be a jobber. Not too long after getting power ups, he got demolished by 18, and Perfect Cell to show off how powerful they are. Boo Saga had him as just getting clowned by every Boo he fought.

BoG he wasn't really a jobber, nor was he one in RoF, though mentioning him beating down an already fatigued and tired Freeza isn't really something to be proud of. He is once again a jobber to Hit having four fights doesn't change the fact that he was still demolished by the main threat to hype him up, and gets jobbed again by Black before coming back later on and stomping his ass out to the point Black couldn't even fight him one-on-one and needed clones. Throughout the original manga and the DBS anime, Vegeta is a jobber. The DBS manga however has definitely been deviating from that path. He isn't really one there, especially at the moment. Hell, he's even the central character in the recent saga in the manga, and I definitely like that, though if this is how a Vegeta centered saga is suppose to be, I definitely prefer the anime version, where Goku gets to fight the guy who took his body, and Black is actually an interesting character, as well as the fact that Vegeta wrecking Black in the anime is a lot better handled imo. Trunks being sidelined in the manga and Trunks' asspulls in the anime really are a sore spot for me in general for both.

He definitely deserved it in Z because most of his jobbing was brought upon himself and he gained much needed humidity from it in the end. Beyond that... not really.

I hope he gets a few crucial wins this arc.

I second this.

What's happening in Future Trunks' timeline is ultimately his business to deal with. Not Vegeta's.

Goku and Trunks don't do everything though. They get arses kick by Goku Black and Zamasu just as badly as Vegeta does and just as frequently.

We've already seen Vegeta grind Goku Black into the dirt. Why should I/we be invested or interested in seeing it again ?

Trunks isn't on Black's level so the next logical step would be for his father to take over.

It doesn't matter, they both got long epic team fights while Vegeta was just sitting on the side.

Because we never see him get the upper hand on a main villain like this. The only time before that was Golden Freeza who had no power left. This was the very first time Vegeta got a main villain all to himself from start to finish.

Why does the responsibility have to fall with Vegeta specifically? There are other Saiyans who could fight.

Goku and Trunks team up for like 30 seconds and still get their arses kicked. After that it's a case of Goku, Vegeta and Future Trunks each taking another crack at the whip collectively.

Let me reiterate myself: I have no problem with Vegeta getting the upper on the villain. But don't let the main villain be on the receiving end of a one-sided beatdown in his/her first major fight against the main cast. That's a terrible way of building up a villain. If you're gonna have the main villain be on the ropes is his/her first major encounter, be smart about it. Have the villain use dirty tricks or various degrees of cunning and strategy to evade or outsmart his/her opponents so he/she can come back truly prepared to fight (Imperfect Cell and Super Boo), or have the villain have some transformations up his/her sleeve to constantly subvert the expectations of the cast (Freeza), or just have him/her flat out no-sell that shit (Anime Goku Black). Don't have him/her on the verge of death in the first fight. That's just sloppy writing.

I also agree with this too.