Reasons why Toriyama* went back on the RoF transformation progression

[Saturnine]

(* I'm saying Toriyama because it's apparent in both the manga and the anime, and Toriyama is the lynchpin that drives the general stories of these two media, so it's not unreasonable to assume it was his decision)

The transformation progression introduced with RoF was simple, elegant and pretty damn cool. A Saiyan goes Super Saiyan God, absorbs the power, becomes more powerful than it in his regular base form, then discovers how to mix it with Super Saiyan and SSj Blue is born. What felt lacking to the creators with this formula? Why didn't they preserve it? Why reintroduce the regular SSj forms, which should have become not only obsolete, but pretty much impossible?

I'm going to think of some reasons, out-of-universe:

- Kids love transformations, and while the SbG - > SSj Blue gimmick did work for a single theatrical movie, watching Goku fight so much in base all the time because he was so strong would probably be boring to a lot of viewers.
- Nostalgia factor - there was probably too big a demand for the traditional SSj transformations and the creators may have thought the franchise would suffer if Goku and Vegeta never used them again
- No drama-preserving handicap present. Goku and Vegeta were simply made way too powerful in base, which could remove any buildup or tension from most situations. Them having Blue already does that, honestly

Can't think of any more reasons. Do you think there are any more?

[Cipher]

I'll go with "no drama," or at least lack of a good way to present stakes visually over the course of a long-running serial.

The Super Saiyan forms were always a nice way to visually indicate tension, strength of an opponent, etc. You can have an opponent push Goku to his limits in his base form, have him go Super Saiyan, and then continue the fight. You can introduce opponents that aren't at his maximum power, and still get a tense bout without it being constantly on the viewer's mind that he's sandbagging to a ridiculous degree.

If their base forms are that radically strong, either a much higher number of their opponents need to be strong enough to give them a run for their money, which conflicts with how often we're told that they're in a superlative echelon of power at this point, or they have to be put in bouts where it's clear they have to be completely playing around, never being pushed anywhere close to their limits, even if those limits only apply to a particular form.

By bringing back stepping-stone transformations, there's a lot more leeway for getting tension out of fights, even if it's all a bit superficial (I'd argue that in a series like Dragon Ball, superficial fun matters). You can give Goku and Vegeta opponents that push them to the brink as Super Saiyans, as Super Saiyan 2s, etc., saving Super Saiyan Blue to indicate they're up against the biggest of big threats.

I do feel that the "base --> Blue" system was an elegant simplification, though, and I think it would have worked well over a continued course of movies that required less frequent fights.

[TheUltimateNinja]

I'll go with "no drama," or at least lack of a good way to present stakes visually over the course of a long-running serial.

The Super Saiyan forms were always a nice way to visually indicate tension, strength of an opponent, etc. You can have an opponent push Goku to his limits in his base form, have him go Super Saiyan, and then continue the fight. You can introduce opponents that aren't at his maximum power, and still get a tense bout without it being constantly on the viewer's mind that he's sandbagging to a ridiculous degree.

If their base forms are that radically strong, either a much higher number of their opponents need to be strong enough to give them a run for their money, which conflicts with how often we're told that they're in a superlative echelon of power at this point, or they have to be put in bouts where it's clear they have to be completely playing around, never being pushed anywhere close to their limits, even if those limits only apply to a particular form.

By bringing back stepping-stone transformations, there's a lot more leeway for getting tension out of fights, even if it's all a bit superficial (I'd argue that in a series like Dragon Ball, superficial fun matters). You can give Goku and Vegeta opponents that push them to the brink as Super Saiyans, as Super Saiyan 2s, etc., saving Super Saiyan Blue to indicate they're up against the biggest of big threats.

I do feel that the "base --> Blue" system was an elegant simplification, though, and I think it would have worked well over a continued course of movies that required less frequent fights.

I don't see the problem with Goku and Vegeta just stomping the shit out of everyone in base.

[Cipher]

I don't see the problem with Goku and Vegeta just stomping the shit out of everyone in base.

I mean, in-universe that might be fine, but good luck trying to make a compelling weekly serial out of it. Either they end every fight instantly, or viewers become frustrated with how much they're treating each fight like a joke.

People get frustrated with Goku staying in base form for a half-hour in GT already. For whatever unreasonable reason, having an opponent push Goku to his limits in one form before having him tap into the next feels much more palatable.

The different forms also provide better measuring sticks for opponents -- and yes, Dragon Ball is the type of series where having some vague idea of how a villain stacks up in the grand scheme of things contributes to the drama. Goku can take on Frost as a Super Saiyan, but need Super Saiyan 2 for Zamasu, and we have a quick, basic idea of where they both stand. On the other hand, he could simply knock both out cold in base, and their relative threats would be ... ??? You could argue it doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things, and I'd agree, but again, it's less compelling to follow as a long-running series.

[Saturnine]

You've got some very good points. Much of the thrills would indeed be lost if Goku and Vegeta just stomped everyone in base. Still, I feel it would be nice to see them fight again with the white aura, it did feel quite rewarding for some reason.

Not to mention this problem could have been solved simply by shifting the focus away from Goku and Vegeta a bit and giving more spotlight to other characters. Not like Super has been terrible with it, but there is room for improvement.

But the biggest problem is the confusion. The manga eliminates it altogether simply by bringing back the God form proper, the anime offers no such helper for the audiences, and hence many people think Cabba or Future Trunks are Saiyan Beyond God level in base. It would be nice to give a similar clue in the anime, such as Goku reverting to base from Super Saiyan and lighting up the white aura, so we know he's in a tier of power between Super Saiyan and SSj Blue.