Super Saiyan Grade 3 vs Super Saiyan 2

[Potara_Vegetto]

We know that Trunks in Dai San Dankai surpass Perfect Cell.
We know that Gohan in Super Saiyan 2 surpass Perfect Cell.

Which form is stronger?

[Jinzoningen MULE]

In terms of practicality, SS2. In terms of sheer ki mass, there's not enough information to say, but Dragon Ball's general trend of escalation makes me lean towards SS2 again.

[supersaiyangodgogeta]

Trunks possesses more raw power, but Gohan is better in everything else.

Grade 3 is stated to be 10x stronger than Grade 2, so it dwarfs SSJ2 in terms of strength.

[nickzambuto]

If we're really gonna say Dai San Dankai, than we might as well just say fuck it and call him Tolunkasu while we're at it.

[Kaboom]

Don't forget that Trunks was fighting a Perfect Cell who was still holding back the majority of his full power, and Gohan fought a much stronger version.

That said, I like to think that both forms grant roughly the same 2x boost over Super Saiyan, since logically they'd be tapping into the same "beyond Super Saiyan" pool of power in the first place. Grade 3 might actually be a little bit stronger since it overemphasizes raw power so much, but if that's the case then I doubt it'd be by very much. Something like a 110-115x power boost at best, compared to the 100x of SS2.

[dragonball0900]

I agree with Kaboom's post.

It's stated that Perfect Cell was holding back against Vegeta and Trunks. It was shown during his fight Goku. Cell showed more of his power like how Goku did, surprising everyone.

Trunks possesses more raw power, but Gohan is better in everything else.

Grade 3 is stated to be 10x stronger than Grade 2, so it dwarfs SSJ2 in terms of strength.

It wasn't officially stated. And if it was, then it doesn't make sense at all. Keep in mind that Trunks was amazed of 50% Goku shown at Korin's tower.

[theherodjl]

Here's a hypothetical addition, how does SSJ2 Grade 3 compare with SSJ3? Which one is worse?

[Kaboom]

Here's a hypothetical addition, how does SSJ2 Grade 3 compare with SSJ3? Which one is worse?

Unlike Grade 3 and its crippling speed deficiency... Super Saiyan 3 is actually effective for the 5 minutes or so that it lasts.

It's a great form as long as it gives you enough of a power advantage to win a fight quickly (and with a whopping 4x power boost, that should be most of the time), while Grade 3 is just generally useless, even to the point that Goku preferred to disregard it completely and stick with regular ol' Super Saiyan 1 instead.

[Tectorman]

Here's a hypothetical addition, how does SSJ2 Grade 3 compare with SSJ3? Which one is worse?

"SSJ2 Grade 3"? Is there an example of that you can point us to, or is this a hypothetical form?

[TheUltimateNinja]

Here's a hypothetical addition, how does SSJ2 Grade 3 compare with SSJ3? Which one is worse?

"SSJ2 Grade 3"? Is there an example of that you can point us to, or is this a hypothetical form?

It's hypothetical.

[KorgDTR2000]

The issue of speed with Grade 3 is something that has always annoyed me.

We saw in Dragon Ball two children wearing turtle shells that weighed 40kg. That's just shy of 90 pounds, and they were moving just fine once they got used to them. SSJ Grade 3 Trunks is stronger than Goku and Kuririn were as children by an unfathomable amount. And yet, if you throw an extra hundred pounds of muscle on him he's dramatically slower? Absolute garbage, considering he spent a year training at 10x Earth's gravity. He could live comfortably while weighing over 1000 pounds but with some extra muscle he's too slow at a normal level of gravity?

I get that it's a story and there are a zillion concessions made. If the character's powers scaled believably they'd fight faster than we could see, and an extra blast of ki would destroy the planet, and their clothes would be immediately obliterated by the force of their impacts, and so on. For the purposes of giving the fights a better frame of reference in our eyes they follow the logic of real fighting closer than they should, which is why Trunks being ridiculously bulky inhibits his speed the way it would a similarly overweight fighter in the real world, who achieves locomotion only through the strength of his muscles and thus falls victim to the square-cube law. But even knowing all of that, it's something that really bugs me and has for years.

[TheGodfather93]

Putting aside how much I despise the concept of Super Saiyan multipliers, I think SSJ2 is stronger in just about every single way. Heck, Perfect Cell was still holding back a lot of power back then, as has already been stated here. On top of that, wasn't MSSJ Goku at 50% (when he left the ROSAT and was powering up for Korin) stronger than anything Trunks or Vegeta could put out at the time?

[supersaiyangodgogeta]

I agree with Kaboom's post.

It's stated that Perfect Cell was holding back against Vegeta and Trunks. It was shown during his fight Goku. Cell showed more of his power like how Goku did, surprising everyone.

Trunks possesses more raw power, but Gohan is better in everything else.

Grade 3 is stated to be 10x stronger than Grade 2, so it dwarfs SSJ2 in terms of strength.

It wasn't officially stated. And if it was, then it doesn't make sense at all. Keep in mind that Trunks was amazed of 50% Goku shown at Korin's tower.

I don't see how Trunks being amazed by Goku's power implies anything about how he compares to Grade 3.

And yes, Grade 3 is officially stated to be 10x Grade 2, while SSJ2 is only 2x SSJ. There is a huge gulf, which makes sense since Grade 3 emphasizes nothing but power.

Grade 3 is much stronger than SSJ2 and it's even shown directly in the series. Trunks powers up from SSJ2 to Grade 3 in Super to trick Vegeta, thus Grade 3 is stronger.

[cheddarsword]

I agree with Kaboom's post.

It's stated that Perfect Cell was holding back against Vegeta and Trunks. It was shown during his fight Goku. Cell showed more of his power like how Goku did, surprising everyone.

Trunks possesses more raw power, but Gohan is better in everything else.

Grade 3 is stated to be 10x stronger than Grade 2, so it dwarfs SSJ2 in terms of strength.

It wasn't officially stated. And if it was, then it doesn't make sense at all. Keep in mind that Trunks was amazed of 50% Goku shown at Korin's tower.

I don't see how Trunks being amazed by Goku's power implies anything about how he compares to Grade 3.

And yes, Grade 3 is officially stated to be 10x Grade 2, while SSJ2 is only 2x SSJ. There is a huge gulf, which makes sense since Grade 3 emphasizes nothing but power.

Grade 3 is much stronger than SSJ2 and it's even shown directly in the series. Trunks powers up from SSJ2 to Grade 3 in Super to trick Vegeta, thus Grade 3 is stronger.

so wait, as of super, grade 2/3 super saiyan 2 is officially a thing? i kinda missed the early parts of the future trunks arc.

[supersaiyangodgogeta]

so wait, as of super, grade 2/3 super saiyan 2 is officially a thing? i kinda missed the early parts of the future trunks arc.

Trunks powered up from SSJ2 to Grade 3. There isn't anything implying that it's SSJ2 Grade 3 or something, just the same one we saw him use against Cell. That would make Grade 3>SSJ2 in power.

[dragonball0900]

I agree with Kaboom's post.

It's stated that Perfect Cell was holding back against Vegeta and Trunks. It was shown during his fight Goku. Cell showed more of his power like how Goku did, surprising everyone.

Trunks possesses more raw power, but Gohan is better in everything else.

Grade 3 is stated to be 10x stronger than Grade 2, so it dwarfs SSJ2 in terms of strength.

It wasn't officially stated. And if it was, then it doesn't make sense at all. Keep in mind that Trunks was amazed of 50% Goku shown at Korin's tower.

I don't see how Trunks being amazed by Goku's power implies anything about how he compares to Grade 3.

And yes, Grade 3 is officially stated to be 10x Grade 2, while SSJ2 is only 2x SSJ. There is a huge gulf, which makes sense since Grade 3 emphasizes nothing but power.

Grade 3 is much stronger than SSJ2 and it's even shown directly in the series. Trunks powers up from SSJ2 to Grade 3 in Super to trick Vegeta, thus Grade 3 is stronger.

There's nothing that states that Grade 3 is 10 times stronger. Maybe it's a bit stronger than SSJ2, but I don't think it's stronger than SSJ3 at all. And yes, Trunks being amazed at 50% Goku's strenght does mean a lot, because it's supposed to be the biggest ki at that point.

[supersaiyangodgogeta]

There's nothing that states that Grade 3 is 10 times stronger. Maybe it's a bit stronger than SSJ2, but I don't think it's stronger than SSJ3 at all. And yes, Trunks being amazed at 50% Goku's strenght does mean a lot, because it's supposed to be the biggest ki at that point.

Yes, it is stated to be 10x stronger than Grade 2.
[spoiler][/spoiler][spoiler][/spoiler]

"Trunks adquiere una fuerza 10 veces superior, pero su capacidad de movimiento es más limitada."

"Trunks acquires a force 10 times greater, but his movement skills are more limited."


Trunks being amazed at Goku's power doesn't make him the biggest ki felt at that point. Absolutely impossible since Cell stated that Grade 3 Trunks was stronger than him.
If you want to argue like that, then that would mean that Base Gotenks>SSJ3 Goku since the Z-fighters were amazed at his ki when he was formed.

[Kaboom]

When that was posted before, we were never able to determine that it was anything more than a big embellishment on the part of the Spanish writers or publishers of that book. Nothing of the sort has ever been cited from any original Japanese source from Shueisha, and if it existed, then frankly you'd think we'd know about it by now. It's in the same boat as the recently-discussed bits that Viz made up, like "Goku crosses half of Namek in seconds" or "Goten and Trunks are now the strongest on Earth."

I mean, you can personally still believe that Grade 3's power somehow dwarfs Super Saiyan 2 and even eclipses Super Saiyan 3 if you want, but don't expect anyone else to go along with it.

[Doctor.]

I just took it as the mastered Super Saiyan state being able to incorporate Grade 3's power boost in a slimmer body, hence why Vegeta and Trunks get scared shitless at Goku's 50% power.

Super's manga sorta proves this, since mastered Super Saiyan 2 gives a boost over normal SS2, proving that the multipliers can be raised.

[Grimlock]

Yes, it is stated to be 10x stronger than Grade 2.
[spoiler][/spoiler]

Where does that image come from?