How strong exactly was Tagoma in Dragon Ball Super

[Israelite Wolfman]

So, it's may be an archaeological issue by now as the series progressed 64 episodes (same as the entirety of GT) after Tagoma's taking his stand-off to Captain Ginyu's comeback but I recall that back at it's day this issue caused a lot of speculation and debates among the fans in the Dragon Ball Wiki, YouTube and Reddit. I believe I've got the answer to it.

So Tagoma was basically a highly ranked Frieza Soldier who 15 years after Frieza's death by Future Trunks is said by Sorbet to, alongside Shisami, be rivaling the power levels of Zarbon and Dodoria in their prime (22,000 & 23,000) - TBH I don't think that back in the Namek Saga either of Sorbet's men were "that strong", maybe around Cui-Vegeta tier but not at the level of Frieza's two top/right hand henchmen cause if that was the case they wouldn't be treated as "exceptional" at Sorbet's definition, as they allegedly were "always that strong".

After 4 months of being a PUNCHING BAG for the newly revived Frieza on some mysterious looking planet (Yeah, Yeah, stupid method of training - I know...), Tagoma and his master had increased in power EXPONENTIALLY, but how much exactly was never exactly defined by the cast. Sure, Frieza in his first form is now more than 50 times HEAVILY RUSTY base Gohan (if DBS was to establish things) as he was able to make Super Saiyan Gohan his plaything, but what about his now top minion?

Tagoma was shown to surpass Shisami (who's position as the big bad minion who can take on Piccolo in the Resurrection 'F' movie was originally Tagoma's) so drastically that he was able to overcame and kill Shisami and critically injured a holding back Gohan (caught both of the, off-guard) with a dirty ki blast while suppressing himself (I'm going to ignore Sorbet's "he even surpassed the Ginyu Force" line of amazement as it makes no sense in these power levels as noted here). Piccolo who just saved his student's life steps up to fight Tagoma with his heavy clothes on yet powered up to MAX, yet gets decimated by the Eggman. Piccolo is a character who never stops training even if there was sustaining peace as noted from the 28th Tenkaichi Budokai Saga where he kept training during the 7 years of peace that came after the Cell Games while most of the others, including Gohan, quit. Meaning Piccolo now should be in the tier of SSJ2 Teen Gohan from the Cell Games, as he was weaker than Dabura who was "about equal to Cell" (I'd say Dabura is slightly stronger than Super Perfect Cell) back in the Majin Buu Saga.

To debunk the claim that Tagoma is "on par with Mystic/Ultimate Gohan" because Gohan stated after his injury "he's hiding more power, and may be equal to me at my best" while Tagoma bragged about being the new leader of the Frieza Army instead of Sorbet and began powering up. I do not buy this suggestion about Tagoma's power level, I honestly believes that Gohan meant his contemporary base and I'll show you why: 1) Tagoma was knocked out with a headbutt to the crutch by SSJ Gotenks, who wasn't stated to be any more powerful than he was in the Super Buu fight (in this show Trunks & Goten are "just kids" and that's why the adult rather having them out cause they're reckless not "weaklings"), and Super Buu was strong enough to endure SSJ 3 Gotenks ( = X8 times stronger than SSJ1), yet Super Buu couldn't beat Mystic/Ultimate Gohan. 2) Tagoma's power drawn out further by Ginyu couldn't eradicate Gohan's contemporary max power at base so therefore Tagoma alone, who was allegedly weaker than Ginyu-Tagoma, COULDN'T defeat Gohan.

I'd say that Ginyu inside Tagoma's body could only stretch his battle power/limits further by a 10% (making him IMHO equal to Majin Buu when he first got free from his cocoon), there it wouldn't be any doubt he's stronger than before as Piccolo noted, but still not enough to kill the nerdy-weaker base Gohan with all his power.

TL;DR: Tagoma is only stronger than Super Perfect Cell tier, he's not stronger than Super Buu and definetaly not strong as Mystic Gohan.
SSJ Gotenks > Tagoma-Ginyu = Fat Majin Buu > Base Gohan ~= Tagoma (Body of Steel) > Gotenks > Piccolo ~= SSJ 2 teen Gohan > Dabura / Super Perfect Cell

[ryan s]

Gohan thought he could still bring out his mystic power so Tagoma would be as strong as mystic Gohan due to prior statements made

Minute: 16
Gohan: "I can't put out my full power... Is it because I slacked off on my training?"
Gohan: "I have no choice..."
Freeza: "A Super Saiyan?!"
Gohan: "The question is, how long can my body last at this point?"
Significance: More or less a confirmation that Gohan lost his Ultimate state, which he received in the Majin Boo arc. When he finds himself unable to tap into his full power, he resorts to Super Saiyan instead, which as we see is more than enough to handle Tagoma. Nothing to worry about, folks!

really doesn't need to be any more complicated than that

[DBZ Macky]

That crotch-shot scene is obviously just for laughs, so I won't put that up as evidence. What I will bring up is the fact that Gohan was most probably referring to his full power/ peak/ "best" at that moment.

Tagoma is at best Perfect Cell tier. He was only hiding power a bit greater than Gohan's, enough for Gohan to still put up somewhat of a fight.

[LowRyder2005]

Per statements, he'd be more or less comparable to a rested and out of shape base Gohan (who, for reason x, performed better than Piccolo) and vastly inferior to that Gohan in Super Saiyan form. About as strong as the initial Perfect Cell would be a safe bet.

[ryan s]

That crotch-shot scene is obviously just for laughs, so I won't put that up as evidence. What I will bring up is the fact that Gohan was most probably referring to his full power/ peak/ "best" at that moment.

Tagoma is at best Perfect Cell tier. He was only hiding power a bit greater than Gohan's, enough for Gohan to still put up somewhat of a fight.

he thought his best was his mystic state

[SkuLLR3D]

All of this about gohan never made any sense to me because he uses his "mystic" form in BoG movie (I skipped that part of the anime and manga so Idk if it's accurate to say he did the same in those versions).

So somewhere in between BoG and RoF he got multiple times weaker?
I just choose to make peace with it by saying Akira Toryama is breaking him down to bring him back up better than ever. One can only hope lol

[SkuLLR3D]

All of this about gohan never made any sense to me because he uses his "mystic" form in BoG movie (I skipped that part of the anime and manga so Idk if it's accurate to say he did the same in those versions).

So somewhere in between BoG and RoF he got multiple times weaker?
I just choose to make peace with it by saying Akira Toryama is breaking him down to bring him back up better than ever. One can only hope lol

[Israelite Wolfman]

All of this about gohan never made any sense to me because he uses his "mystic" form in BoG movie (I skipped that part of the anime and manga so Idk if it's accurate to say he did the same in those versions).

So somewhere in between BoG and RoF he got multiple times weaker?
I just choose to make peace with it by saying Akira Toryama is breaking him down to bring him back up better than ever. One can only hope lol

Resurrection 'F' was a poorly written and executed story. The short amount of time the villains rose from rock bottom to top of the skyline on the power levels chart was overly forced. Also, the lack of usage of character felt screaming "mediocre" to the skies. The rehashing of Frieza? **SIGH** **YAWN**
(BTW take a look at your comment, you posted the same twice within half an hour).

[SkuLLR3D]

All of this about gohan never made any sense to me because he uses his "mystic" form in BoG movie (I skipped that part of the anime and manga so Idk if it's accurate to say he did the same in those versions).

So somewhere in between BoG and RoF he got multiple times weaker?
I just choose to make peace with it by saying Akira Toryama is breaking him down to bring him back up better than ever. One can only hope lol

Resurrection 'F' was a poorly written and executed story. The short amount of time the villains rose from rock bottom to top of the skyline on the power levels chart was overly forced. Also, the lack of usage of character felt screaming "mediocre" to the skies. The rehashing of Frieza? **SIGH** **YAWN**
(BTW take a look at your comment, you posted the same twice within half an hour).

Lol yah I noticed that I did post twice on accident xD
Oops.
I agree that it wasn't written that well as far as power scaling goes. They should have had frieza get secretly revived much earlier so he could have trained for much longer.
But since he was severely over powered since Namek saga without real training, it makes a little sense that he'd gain more power over time than other ppl.
But again, I agree because closing the gap between namek frieza and ssjblue goku should take years. Not four months xD

[ZombieVito]

That crotch-shot scene is obviously just for laughs, so I won't put that up as evidence. What I will bring up is the fact that Gohan was most probably referring to his full power/ peak/ "best" at that moment.

Tagoma is at best Perfect Cell tier. He was only hiding power a bit greater than Gohan's, enough for Gohan to still put up somewhat of a fight.

Yet Ginyu called Gohan's power puny.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

As strong as whatever level Gohan thought his full-power was before realizing he could no longer access it.

Base Gohan is odd because he's above Piccolo despite doing no training. He lost his Ultimate state, but his Base was way stronger than it was.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

As strong as whatever level Gohan thought his full-power was before realizing he could no longer access it.

Base Gohan is odd because he's above Piccolo despite doing no training. He lost his Ultimate state, but his Base was way stronger than it was.

The most prevalent headcanon regarding this is that despite Gohan not having access to his full "Ultimate" power, he isn't fully cut off from it, which is why he's still stronger than Piccolo in base form and can multiply his power 50-fold with Super Saiyan.

It's not a bad headcanon, and at least makes the loss of Gohan's "Ultimate" state a bit more palatable.

[apex_pretador]

That crotch-shot scene is obviously just for laughs, so I won't put that up as evidence. What I will bring up is the fact that Gohan was most probably referring to his full power/ peak/ "best" at that moment.

Tagoma is at best Perfect Cell tier. He was only hiding power a bit greater than Gohan's, enough for Gohan to still put up somewhat of a fight.

he thought his best was his mystic state

Actually, no.
Super sayan gohan who is way weaker than Mystic gohan two-shotted Ginyu-Tagoma while holding back.

On topic, around even with super perfect cell, below CG Gohan and significantly below any version of Majin buu

[ryan s]

That crotch-shot scene is obviously just for laughs, so I won't put that up as evidence. What I will bring up is the fact that Gohan was most probably referring to his full power/ peak/ "best" at that moment.

Tagoma is at best Perfect Cell tier. He was only hiding power a bit greater than Gohan's, enough for Gohan to still put up somewhat of a fight.

he thought his best was his mystic state

Actually, no.
Super sayan gohan who is way weaker than Mystic gohan two-shotted Ginyu-Tagoma while holding back.

On topic, around even with super perfect cell, below CG Gohan and significantly below any version of Majin buu

great refutation, really compelling clearly was well thought out and had substance ........ sarcasm

[Israelite Wolfman]

he thought his best was his mystic state

Actually, no.
Super sayan gohan who is way weaker than Mystic gohan two-shotted Ginyu-Tagoma while holding back.

On topic, around even with super perfect cell, below CG Gohan and significantly below any version of Majin buu

great refutation, really compelling clearly was well thought out and had substance ........ sarcasm

Considering DBS Episode 88 where Piccolo actually had to put him on the right mental track for going SSJ then SSJ 2 then Ultimate Form, there is no doubt Gohan never tapped BACK into his Mystic form/power again after the Kid Buu Saga, so Tagoma is CONFIRMED TO BE BENEATH Mystic Gohan.

I believe Gohan's decrease in power had began around the time of Battle of Gods, then he COLLAPSED in Resurrection 'F' to the lower single digit billions (still above Piccolo for some reason), to get stronger by DBS Episode 30 when he trains with Piccolo (who now is also in the tier he could faze Tagoma) yet not enough as Piccolo can give him a run for his money, then quit training after the Champa Arc and collapsed again when Future Trunks meets him (stating: "Gohan have lost that enormous power he had when he bested Cell" = lower than SSJ2 Kid Gohan at his base), then he resumes training with Piccolo after seeing how strong were Goku Black and Zamasu - maybe hitting his Fusion Saga Prime when Future Trunks and Future Mai sets off (DBS Episode 67); but then dropping back in strength to the regions where Watagash possessing Barry Kahn could force him into going SSJ (even if suppressing himself once going there), at the Zeno Exhibition Match with Lavenda I'd say he is in the realms of Mystic level but probably still far from his prime when he fought Super Buu as he wasn't able to take down Piccolo who presumably never surpassed Mystic Gohan of that time.

[buutenks]

Due to ep 88, I'd say he's around Cell Jr level.

As for how he survived a hit from ssj Gotenks? Comedy.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

Due to ep 88, I'd say he's around Cell Jr level.

As for how he survived a hit from ssj Gotenks? Comedy.

I don't know. Piccolo got a lot stronger by the time he showed up in the Buu Saga. Even assuming he made no progress whatsoever since then up until RoF, he's still easily at the level of a Cell Jr., if not as strong as SS Goku from the Cell Games.

I could see Tagoma being at Perfect Cell's level, possibly even Super Perfect Cell.

[ZombieVito]

If the implications of episode 88 & 89 are true then Gohan has just gotten his Boo arc power back. That means that in RoF he was far weaker than his Z Sword self.

As of right now with this implication I would put Tagoma/Ginyu weaker than SSJ Goku in the Boo arc.

[dbgtFO]

Due to ep 88, I'd say he's around Cell Jr level.

As for how he survived a hit from ssj Gotenks? Comedy.

I don't know. Piccolo got a lot stronger by the time he showed up in the Buu Saga.

Certainly not stated or shown anywhere, so he most likely didn't.

Even assuming he made no progress whatsoever since then up until RoF, he's still easily at the level of a Cell Jr., if not as strong as SS Goku from the Cell Games.

I doubt that too. Weaker than a Cell Jr. should be his level. The extent to, which he's weaker, is anyone's guess¯\_(ツ)_/¯.
Of course in Super, he goes well above that.

[dragon boss z]

He is supposed to be be weaker than Namek Frieza, the end.