Theory: Gohan lost his "Mystic" form when he died in the Buu saga

[precita]

I have a theory that Gohan's Mystic form only lasted until he died when Kid Buu blew up the Earth in DBZ. That would explain why he seemed to regress back to pre-SSJ2 levels that he was at the beginning of the Buu saga when they said he was weaker than he was at the Cell games. Elder Kai's upgrade only lasted while he was alive, but since dying and being brought back to life, he lost it.

That's why he was weak again when Freeza came to Earth, why Goku continually passed him over, and why he can go Super Saiyan again. My guess is he'll manage to unlock it again when he trains with Piccolo in the new episode.

[supersaiyangodgogeta]

He's stated and shown to be Ultimate during the exhibition match and he's shown in his Ultimate state during BOG. The promo material Toei released shows and states that the Gohan without the bang, in his father's gi was Ultimate. It's defined by the eyes.

[Saturnine]

Nothing really indicated that he stopped being Mythical after he died, I'm not really inclined to believe that.

[nickzambuto]

Nothing really indicated that he stopped being Mythical after he died, I'm not really inclined to believe that.

If anything is funnier than calling him Mystic Gohan, it's Mythical Gohan.

[Darkprince410]

That's why he was weak again when Freeza came to Earth, why Goku continually passed him over, and why he can go Super Saiyan again. My guess is he'll manage to unlock it again when he trains with Piccolo in the new episode.

Given that just transforming to Super Saiyan put him so far above Tagoma in power (who himself was above "Ultimate" Gohan strength wise), it doesn't seem likely that he actually reverted down to pre-"Ultimate" levels, but rather he simply grew somewhat weaker from his "Ultimate" state.

[Doctor.]

He's stated and shown to be Ultimate during the exhibition match and he's shown in his Ultimate state during BOG. The promo material Toei released shows and states that the Gohan without the bang, in his father's gi was Ultimate. It's defined by the eyes.

You should wait for the next episode before making that kind of conclusion, the NEP implies that Gohan is only now recovering the form.

[supersaiyangodgogeta]

He's stated and shown to be Ultimate during the exhibition match and he's shown in his Ultimate state during BOG. The promo material Toei released shows and states that the Gohan without the bang, in his father's gi was Ultimate. It's defined by the eyes.

You should wait for the next episode before making that kind of conclusion, the NEP implies that Gohan is only now recovering the form.

The NEP shows Gohan unlocking an Ultimate state that possesses more of his dormant power than he had in the past.

Toei specifically stated that Ultimate Gohan had already returned along with the art that corresponds to it(no bang & Goku's gi) and that's the one we saw in the exhibition match.


Ultimate Gohan(Post Piccolo training)>SSJ Ultimate Gohan>Ultimate Gohan(Exhibition match)=Boo arc Ultimate Gohan.

[LowRyder2005]

Since Gohan himself kind of acts like he's lacking something, it's fair to say that he probably has not tapped into his old power yet. That's the reason behind the fact that he's been re-training since the U6 Arc in the first place and it would fit with the fact that he resorts to Super Saiyan when in need.
Super Saiyan improving/stacking over his Ultimate form is a similar conjecture, with the difference it apparently goes against everything we know about the Chou form. We do know that the writing team was aware of this at the time when BOG was produced [http://www.kanzenshuu.com/2013/02/28/go ... e-of-gods/].
Pretty sure that there are a handful of quotes that further go in this direction, mainly when Gohan comments on the issue (i.e. "Piccolo has been retraining me from scratch").

Regarding the main question: it's hard to say, but in the original manga it appears like there was an intent on Toriyama's part to consistently portray Gohan as "different" after the ritual (the change in design persisted) in the scant pages left. That is, even immediately after Buu's defeat. Design is part of the reason, I guess, that among manga purists you will usually find the idea that Gohan "can't" go Super Saiyan (at least under regular circumstances) or that at the very least he has no need to.



It probably needs to be added that most of the other media tend to portray the Ultimate power up as something more similar to a transformation, though. Obviously, Super itself has been kind of inconsistent all the same.

[sintzu]

He used it in BOG so that's not the case. The Buu arc was written as the story's last arc and BOG was written as a stand alone movie so there was no issues with having Gohan be that strong but since they decided to continue with GT after the Buu arc and Super after BOG, they decided he couldn't be that strong so he lost it out of nowhere.

This is just speculation on my part so don't take it as a fact.

[Darkprince410]

Super Saiyan improving/stacking over his Ultimate form is a similar conjecture, with the difference it apparently goes against everything we know about the Chou form.

Not really. The "Ultimate" form brought Gohan's power out beyond its limits and was a full potential unlock at the time, fundamentally no different than the Super God Water or the Namekian Grand Elder's technique (except beyond limits rather than simply to limits). We even see this fact with Daizenshuu 7's Special Attack Dictionary classifying Rou Kaioushin's and the Grand Elder's techniques as the same thing. Likewise, the Super Saiyan transformation is indicated to tap into hidden potential (Daiz 7 states that Ssj3 is a full potential unlock). Therefore, Gohan wouldn't have gained anything from transforming when fighting Gotenks Buu because he had no potential at the time to unlock.

However, it is indicated during the Freeza arc that Saiyans have "unlimited" and forever growing stamina, thus, given time, Gohan's potential could grow to the point where the Ssj transformation, while he's still in his "Ultimate" state, would provide a viable boost in power for him again. This would go with what we saw in the Revival of F arc, where Gohan is most certainly too powerful in his base/Ssj form to be his pre-"Ultimate" levels, but fits if he was at his "Ultimate" level and just dwindled down over time from lack of training.

[SkuLLR3D]

I think it was just lack of training.
I used to be able to run (not jog, but RUN) 7-9 miles daily, and that was just a warm up to my 3-5 hour workout.
Now I can't run one full mile to save my life, cuz I haven't activity kept up with it for a few years.

I know it's silly to compare my own physique to that of a fictional, half alien character, but it makes sense to me.

But when I workout for a month, like this past month, it's been easy to get to where I was so I can only logically say that gohan will do the same.

I'm definitely the gohan in my group of friends xD

[cheddarsword]

Ultimate Gohan is Ultimate. He can however lose power from not fighting or training.

Personally, I feel as though he can still GAIN power by fighting or training.

He obviously still has his Super Saiyan form though.

Oh boy... I see another "Two Base Theory" war brewing over Gohan's forms. *Hands out hard hats and flame shields

Also, Mystic and Mythic Gohan are fan made terms. Ultimate Gohan is the accepted term.

If you want to get technical, there was a video game that did name the form as Super Gohan.

While Mystic is a cooler name in my opinion, it's just not accurate.

[miguelnuva1]

Ultimate Gohan is Ultimate. He can however lose power from not fighting or training.

Personally, I feel as though he can still GAIN power by fighting or training.

He obviously still has his Super Saiyan form though.

Oh boy... I see another "Two Base Theory" war brewing over Gohan's forms. *Hands out hard hats and flame shields

Also, Mystic and Mythic Gohan are fan made terms. Ultimate Gohan is the accepted term.

If you want to get technical, there was a video game that did name the form as Super Gohan.

While Mystic is a cooler name in my opinion, it's just not accurate.

Ultimate isn't an official term either other than the American video games last I checked.

[cheddarsword]

Ultimate Gohan is Ultimate. He can however lose power from not fighting or training.

Personally, I feel as though he can still GAIN power by fighting or training.

He obviously still has his Super Saiyan form though.

Oh boy... I see another "Two Base Theory" war brewing over Gohan's forms. *Hands out hard hats and flame shields

Also, Mystic and Mythic Gohan are fan made terms. Ultimate Gohan is the accepted term.

If you want to get technical, there was a video game that did name the form as Super Gohan.

While Mystic is a cooler name in my opinion, it's just not accurate.

Ultimate isn't an official term either other than the American video games last I checked.

Ah but I didn't say official. I said "accepted". And since the video games are the only form of licensed media to use the term, that lends it more legitimacy than a fan made term. At least in my book.

Hell, for all I care, call him Super Gohan, as that was in a video game too.

But Mystic, as cool as it is, can be traced back to a post someone made on the internet as it's source, making it unofficial.

Given his power increase and the Kai outfit he's wearing, he certainly looks mystical.

[LowRyder2005]

Ultimate isn't an official term either other than the American video games last I checked.

I believe that at least in the very latest V Jump excerpts (basically, the one announcing the form's return) he was called "Ultimate" as well.

[Darkprince410]

Ultimate isn't an official term either other than the American video games last I checked.

This blurb from V-Jump refers to him as "Ultimate" Gohan, so it is arguably the most "official" name we have for Gohan at that point.

Super Scoop 2
Gohan awakens?!
This time Gohan is super-serious!! These design images we secretly obtained show "Ultimate" Gohan, with his dormant power unlocked!!
[caption] You can tell just by looking that he's on a different level!! The strong Gohan of old who surpassed his father has returned!!

[Mac]

Impossible since it's not really a form, it's just an unlocking of power.

[EtDP]

Nope. As we saw tonight,
[spoiler]Ultimate Gohan is simply a form above SSJ2 for him. He just essentially had a mental block[/spoiler]

[Kaboom]

Super isn't really doing anything different than what practically every Toei-heralded project has always done... Contrary to how the manga portrayed it as a permanent change, the animated stuff has treated "Ultimate" like a transformation for Gohan ever since Z movie 13. GT's the only thing that didn't do it that way, and oddly thus fit best with what the manga showed.

[VegettoEX]

Ultimate isn't an official term either other than the American video games last I checked.

In addition to what else has been stated, just wanted to chime in that "Ultimate" is not exclusive to the English localization of the games: